Resto shaman may be new main, gear advice please?

[HavetoHeal 0]

I main a disc priest, but it's looking like I'm going to switch to my resto shammy for a while.  10 man raiding, 2 heals (other is disc priest) for most fights.

 

I have 3/12 Titan Runestones, and have already done all the bosses this week, so roughly 2 weeks until I can get the cloak on her.

 

Got some gear tonight in normal (first time in normals with her) and couldn't decide how to gem it, so I ran her through AMR.  She was only a few points from the 25% haste cap (goblin, + spell haste buff in raid), but when I had AMR do the auto-reforge, it dropped it way down and put me at about 82% mastery instead.

 

I'll admit, I do not understand resto mastery AT ALL.  It seems very vague to me.  (As opposed to my disc priest's mastery being very straightforward as to what it does.)

 

Anyway, could I get some advice on gemming and reforging?  And I guess while I'm at it, spec and glyphs, too.  I was only doing a few flexes with her and LFR, so I'm positive she is sub-optimal with those, as well, but I better straighten them out for normals.

 

She's a JC/Chanter.  http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Tanishani/simple

[lynx 19]

Basically:

Int > Spirit to cap (your comfort) = Haste to cap (goblin, so 7116, or 9k when you wont be sacrificing crit to get there) > Crit > Mastery

 

I use these weights:

Int: 1

SP: 0.9

Spirit to cap: 0.8

Haste to cap: 0.8

Crit: 0.67

Mastery: 0.26

Haste after cap: 0.15

Spirit after cap: 0.05

 

In reality haste after cap gives more throughput than mastery, but requires higher spirit. So I don't go crazy with it. Mastery is useful in specific situations, but those aren't common.

Edited May 29, 2014 by lynx

[Stoove 347]

OK so as I understand it we need to tackle in order:

• Ask Mr Robot
• Reforging and stats
• Talent builds

AMR is a fantastic tool which does exactly what you ask it to; if you just plug your toon in and press "Optimize", you're asking it to optimize you for a build which is probably decent all-round but almost certainly not optimal for anyone.

 

The way to get AMR to do what you want is by changing the stat weights which it runs off. Basic tips are to put Intellect, Spellpower and Spirit at the top with a cap on the amount of Spirit you want. Next, just below that you want anything you're setting to a cap - Haste (to 12.5% or 25% or 30% as a Resto Shaman). Then you want your "dump everything else" stat to be above half of the value of Intellect - if Int = 1, set Crit (for e.g.) to 0.55. Your other stats can be lower than half. Here is what that looks like in the stat weight pane. I am asking AMR to get me 12k Spirit, 30% Haste, and then dump everything into Crit.

 

 

Generally I'd advise Crit over Mastery for most progress these days, though it's not a big difference and you can be successful stacking Mastery if you like that.

 

Mastery vs. Crit

 

OK this debate gets complicated, so here's the abridged version:

 

Mastery gives you more healing when you heal someone at low health. If you have 50% Mastery, that means you get 50% more healing on targets at extremely low health (0% or close). As their health increases, the benefit from Mastery decreases linearly; 50% Mastery should give you about 25% bonus when your target is at half health. So obviously the value of Mastery relies on what your raid's hp levels are.

 

Crit gives you the standard chance at a double heal, but the interesting bit for us is twofold; 1) Crits regenerate a modest amount of mana, 2) Crits heal someone else nearby (on lowest hp) by 30% of the main heal. It means your single target heals have a splash healing component, which is really useful. Taken together, Crit is super strong at high values.

 

However the relative value of Mastery vs. Crit relies on the mean health of your raid. These days, the healing environment is best suited to Crit over Mastery; especially if you're healing with a Disc or a Pally.

 

Talents & Glyphs

 

You should be regularly switching in/out the following glyphs;

• Riptide
• Chaining
• Healing Stream Totem

Other useful glyphs are;

• Capacitor Totem (When using Cap in a fight)
• Fire Elemental Totem (When using Primal Elementalist)
• Totemic Recall (When you have the LMG to use to game the proc)

The latter list is entirely dependent upon your talents/setup, but the first list is basically what you will want to look at for every fight and decide what works best for you. Not everyone agreed on what to use where (it depends on your team), but you should be changing your glyphs frequently even on a farm run.

 

Some of your talents are utility based, so pick whatever's best for the fight. Frequently used ones are Tier 1 (damage reduction), Tier 2 (Movement: I like Windwalk best, swap into Earthgrab for some fights), Tier 3 (Totems: I like Projection and Persistence best, but if you can use CotE effectively it's fantastic), and Tier 5 (choosing between Rushing Streams and Ancestral Guidance).

 

Generally, Ancestral Swiftness is easiest to take because you get the instant cast heal and it helps you get to the Haste cap easier. Elemental Mastery is fun if you can find a good place to use it, and EotE is quite niche for Resto.

 

For the final tier, most people spec Primal Elementalist because the Primal Elementals are really useful. Unleashed Fury is less ubiquitously useful because of the cast time on Unleash Elements, but you will find on some fights it feels better to use (my example is Heroic Dark Shaman).

 

I hope that's enough to get you started! We have a tips compendium for SoO, with Normal and some Heroic bosses.

 

Good luck! :)

[CptDan 25]

Stoove is right on the money and when I do 10 man content I look at mastery and crit as being roughly equal with a slight edge to crit depending on the co healer I'm with. In higher gear I could see crit gaining more value due to naturally high mastery levels.

To really find out for yourself is just to consider how low the health of the raid is dropping on a regular basis. (More than a few times per fight) if their overall health stays high, then crit will be a bit better, but if they are consistently low, then a mastery build might get the edge. This is why stoove sad that at this point in the expansion crit gets the edge.

I've seen people do well with both strats. I personally raid 25s and love crit. Even with my crit build I am still over 50% IIRC mastery.

Enjoy, try a few fights, bring some logs and we can help more.

[HavetoHeal 0]

Thank you all, I feel much better about her stats now.  I followed (mostly) the numbers recommended by stoove, went for the 25% haste cap for now (we have an spriest in the raid, and when we don't, our hunter uses a sporebat).  I may post logs eventually, for now I'm going to learn to use all her spells...don't laugh too hard, but I have never, ever, used Spirit Link totem.

 

I'm going to study the SoO guide linked to I have a better idea of each fight.  I did feel very gimped on Immerseus, and I'm quite guilty of being a Chain Heal spammer, so I'll be working on that, as well.

 

We hope to move to 25 man in the somewhat near future, though that is easier said than done, of course.  Depending on what we are able to put together, I may be able to move back to my disc, but time will tell.

 

I need to find the macros for the elementals and figure out how to track my meta procs on Need to Know.  Also want to try to have an "in my face" notification that Healing Stream is off c/d.  If anyone has suggestions on how to do that, I'd love it!

 

Again, thank you, I feel much better about how she looks stat-wise right now, and I will see how it goes in a raid this weekend.

[Hybrys 199]

I just wanted to toss in my own thoughts on Mastery vs Crit.

 

Mastery is awful.  Especially when you're co-healing with a Disc or Holy Pally.

 

And that's it!

 

 

PS: The meta gem proc is called Lucidity and it is spell ID 137247.

[Stoove 347]

For proc and ability tracking I recommend WeakAuras2 extremely highly. We have a thread on WA2 Auras by Hybrys and I have posted all of the WA2 auras which I use on my own site. My HST aura comes with a warning sound which you can't miss.

 

Thank you all, I feel much better about her stats now.  I followed (mostly) the numbers recommended by stoove, went for the 25% haste cap for now (we have an spriest in the raid, and when we don't, our hunter uses a sporebat).  I may post logs eventually, for now I'm going to learn to use all her spells...don't laugh too hard, but I have never, ever, used Spirit Link totem.

 

Glad to hear you're benefiting from all this! Spirit Link Totem is difficult to use sometimes but totally worth the effort, especially when paired with other cooldowns (read why here). Find a time to use it, keep it keybound, you will be much better for it! :)

 

 

I just wanted to toss in my own thoughts on Mastery vs Crit.

 

Mastery is awful.  Especially when you're co-healing with a Disc or Holy Pally.

 

As I said, some people think like that. Personally, I think Mastery is a fantastic idea which is unsuited to the current healing environment. We spend too much time in the critical or non-critical regimes for Mastery to matter enough. When WoD rolls along, we will hopefully be saying the opposite.

 

Also if you want to read more maths on Mastery vs. Crit, you could start here.

[Pandacho 286]

When I stopped to boost Haste and reforged everything after 33% haste soft cap to Crit, I was able to drop the Spirit to 10K from 12K. Now I'm thinking about 9K with futhure reforging of spirit to crit.

BTW, what for you are tracking LMG procs as a resto shams? Do we (resto shamans) have such a mana issues on the current stage that we have to change 'planned' healing according to its procs? Or would I say to some raider with 30% hp " Sorry, mate, just wait for my meta gem proc and then I'll cast a GHW on you, for free!" ?

I think that our goal in raid is to hold the people at a comfortable HP level, how does it related to procs? You wouldn't cast expensive heal without proc? You would cast it with proc even when no heal needed? Or it's about doing everything 'perfect' and in this way to save the mana in any possible way, like LMG procs or Totemic Recall?

Edited May 29, 2014 by Pandacho

[Hybrys 199]

When I stopped to boost Haste and reforged everything after 33% haste soft cap to Crit, I was able to drop the Spirit to 10K from 12K. Now I'm thinking about 9K with futhure reforging of spirit to crit.

BTW, what for you are tracking LMG procs as a resto shams? Do we (resto shamans) have such a mana issues on the current stage that we have to change 'planned' healing according to its procs? Or would I say to some raider with 30% hp " Sorry, mate, just wait for my meta gem proc and then I'll cast a GHW on you, for free!" ?

I think that our goal in raid is to hold the people at a comfortable HP level, how does it related to procs? You wouldn't cast expensive heal without proc? You would cast it with proc even when no heal needed? Or it's about doing everything 'perfect' and in this way to save the mana in any possible way, like LMG procs or Totemic Recall?

Using the LMG to drop a Magma Totem, and then Totemic Recall it is worth something like 12k mana.  It's great if you want to drop further spirit and enjoy a more complex playstyle.

 

If I'm not doing that (such as on Crit-City Thok), I wouldn't track it at all.

 

 

@Stoove

 

I know the math says that it's not as bad as I say, but I dislike the implementation of it greatly.  Especially in the day and age of blanket absorbs and taking such large bursts of damage (IE: Iron Juggernaut) with stacked cooldowns and no sweat at all.

 

Now, how you rank on Malkorok is to let everyone get to ~10% before applying bubbles on them with a Mastery stack.  Then spamspamspam doubled GHWs.

[HavetoHeal 0]

@Stoove, thank you for the links!  They will be very helpful.

 

@Pandacho, I have been reading about resto shammies for hours, so I'm not sure where I read it (probably IV somewhere), but it was referenced that during meta procs is a good time to use Healing Surge, reshield the tank, etc.

[Pandacho 286]

@Pandacho, I have been reading about resto shammies for hours, so I'm not sure where I read it (probably IV somewhere), but it was referenced that during meta procs is a good time to use Healing Surge, reshield the tank, etc.

What i meant in my post, is that (in my opinion) healer can't base people lives on the meta gem procs. If raider is low of health - heal him, if your tank has 7 stacks of the shield remained - why to reshield?

I think that the first thing somebody has to do as a healer is to learn every fight, it's normal state and damage spikes. You have to plan before the fight starts what will you do on unexpected spike. So you will not panic and spam expensive mana burn heals for nothing. Maybe it worth dropping HTT and maybe HR and some CH would be enough, if you know for sure that there'll be no damage in the next 10 sec.

Right planning and knowing the fight will save you loads of mana and nerves. More then LMG procs imo :)

[lynx 19]

Now, how you rank on Malkorok is to let everyone get to ~10% before applying bubbles on them with a Mastery stack.  Then spamspamspam doubled GHWs.

 

I have to try that sometime! Will still probably be below holy, but seems like I can give him a run for his money

And only to think what absurd amount of HPS i can get out of AG with this crazy tactic!

[Stoove 347]

Never delay a heal to wait for the LMG proc. Ever.

 

Using the LMG to drop a Magma Totem, and then Totemic Recall it is worth something like 12k mana.  It's great if you want to drop further spirit and enjoy a more complex playstyle.

 

It's about 13k, and the essential thing to remember is that the Recall must happen after the proc finishes, otherwise you get nothing.

 

 

 

I also understand what Hybrys is saying about Mastery, but I think the concept of the stat is great; the current healing environment is (in my opinion) misdesigned and should not punish Mastery as it does. I.e. I think the fault is not with Mastery itself, but with the way we have to heal at the moment. This is where my links come into the discussion; critical healing and so forth.

[HavetoHeal 0]

How are you getting 13k mana back?  I tried it doing the solo trials (meta is deactivated, I believe, I never got a proc) but when I used TR, I would only get back 3-4k mana (like when using it 2sec before HS expired).  Am I missing a talent or glyph?

[Hybrys 199]

How are you getting 13k mana back?  I tried it doing the solo trials (meta is deactivated, I believe, I never got a proc) but when I used TR, I would only get back 3-4k mana (like when using it 2sec before HS expired).  Am I missing a talent or glyph?

We were talking about dropping a Magma Totem during the LMG proc, and then hitting Totemic Recall (with the Glyph) after your LMG expires.  It's a neat way to game and gain mana from your LMG.

[HavetoHeal 0]

Ahhhh, I was totally misunderstanding the glyph.  Got it, thank you! 

[Mazukon 5]

Stoove, can you explain what you mean when you said the current healing environment is not favorable to a mastery build but favors crit? I read the article on the critical vs non-critical healing a while ago and recently reread it. I can't help but feel that the main takeaway from that article is that we should be favoring mastery and haste much more than crit.

During the non-critical phases, throughout healers like shamans are not going to win the fight against disc priests and holy paladins. And we really shouldn't be trying to. We should be more focused on executing mechanics correctly, dispelling (like on Thok) or conserving our mana and dpsing with telluric currents. Your raid is not going to wipe due to damage during non critical healing phases, they are going to wipe to mechanics or low dps and enrage. Let the disc and pallys pad the meter during these times, but then be ready to keep everyone up during the critical healing moments by having high mastery.

For reference, my guild is currently on 25 man heroic Thok. On this fight in particular, the only healing that really matters is in the few seconds after a deafening screech. We need to get everyone in the raid from ~25% or less back up to ~75% or more in a few seconds before the next screech hits. I haven't done the math, but this seems like the perfect situation for mastery. I get enough time for one cast, and I need that cast to get a player from near death to a reasonable life total. Crit seems unreliable in this situation. The mana regen component of crit seems almost negligible since if you are going into a critical healing phase without enough mana, you are probably doing other things wrong.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the time when crit shines, target above ~60%, the efficiency of your heals doesn't matter. If you are casting a heal on someone in that range, whether you have a crit heavy build or a mastery heavy build, that person is going to survive long enough to continue receiving heals. But if they are at 20% and you need to heal them, the efficiency matters. If you don't crit in a crit build they won't survive another GCD, but if you have high mastery, your heal will get them stabilized to not die immediately regardless of the RNG of crit.

[lynx 19]

Incidentally Thok is one of the two fights on which mastery actually works (well, that crazy tactic proposed by Hybrys makes it three fights). And yet, high crit gets similar results as well on those fights, just somewhat lower but definitely enough to keep the raid at high hp! In high I mean around 15k.

While mastery does get better for targets below 60%, I checked it and on average the difference is marginal until people at about 30%-40%, so that resurgence and AA component make up for it. On the other hand on most fights, if dps is below 70% he’s in an immediate danger of being instagibed (IJ is the biggest culprit here), and that’s why crit works so well. On most fights this is the critical healing area and not sub 60%. You anticipate damage, and start your heals early (preferably precast) to keep people topped while losing as little mana as possible.

Let’s say you’re two healing IJ 10man hc with a disc, then you must be able to keep up with him when out of siege mode, and still be able to do that extra 200% when in siege mode. Mastery won’t get you there, but crit will.

Also, resurgence mana return is definitely not negligible by any means. It’s huge, and has a ~4:1 - 3:1 ratio with spirit. So for every 3-4 points you take away from crit to mastery, one of them has to go to spirit, and for every 3-4 taken to haste, 1-2 has to go to spirit (leaning more towards 2). And since spirit is just a buffer, you essentially loose throughput even for low health targets!

And come on, telluric currents is just meh. It does almost no dps, it returns very little mana (your magma totem alone will return more, nevermind resurgence), and most importantly you don’t heal while you’re doing it! Where’s the fun in doing meaningless dps, no healing and getting back small amount of mana? Yes, I know about changes in WoD, and I can’t say that I’m happy about some of them…

Edited May 30, 2014 by lynx