wow What's Brewing for the Forsaken in Patch 9.2.5?

[Stan 5,069]

Something's brewing for the Forsaken in Patch 9.2.5! A new datamined encrypted map of Tirisfal Glades hints at an event and there's also an interesting encrypted model of Calia Menethil. This post contains spoilers.

• Patch 9.2.5 includes a new encrypted map of Tirisfal Glades, likely hinting at a future event taking place there.
• Patch 9.2.5 also adds an encrypted model of Calia Menethil. Her leading the Forsaken was foreshadowed in the Battle for Azeroth epilogue. Will she lead the Forsaken at the end of the Shadowlands? 
• The Undercity portal in Orgrimmar no longer works in Patch 9.2.5 (not sure if it's intended).

• Many Forsaken have been removed from Orgrimmar.
• Blood Elves received a new quest where they must defend Ghostlands from the Scourge.

I wouldn't be surprised if Patch 10.0 was scourge-related, as we return to Azeroth.

The Forsaken with a new leader rebuilding Undercity also makes perfect sense if 9.2.5 should add a pre-expansion event. What do you think?

[Brutalis 165]

Calia was a mistake.

[Prophet001 564]

Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia....

 

Office guy screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Dejo93 1,002]

wonder if there will be a cinematic for this 

[Arcling 891]

48 minutes ago, Prophet001 said:

Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia....

 

Office guy screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I feel bad for Forsaken players. This is probably the worst time to be one, considering how their previous lore has been retconned into basically becoming unknowing pawns of the Jailer, takes most of their previous agency of just being a free-willed undead human trying to rebuild and survive.

[Devylknyght 83]

Just when you think it can't get worse....

[Nazamber 38]

2 hours ago, Arcling said:

I feel bad for Forsaken players. This is probably the worst time to be one, considering how their previous lore has been retconned into basically becoming unknowing pawns of the Jailer, takes most of their previous agency of just being a free-willed undead human trying to rebuild and survive.

I mean, I remember playing my Forsaken Death Knight and having the same choice to either follow or not follow Sylvanas. Of course with my fantasy, I chose to follow my Dark Lady...those still loyal to her got that nice follow up at Windrunner Spire... Its not fully established that the Undead were pawns of the Jailer. Starting a new Forsaken is still based on pre-Sylvanas working for him.

If anything this could mean several things. We are going to get a Heritage Armor set for the Undead (which we are still missing Undead/Trolls/Orcs Hordewise and Draenei/Night Elf/Human Alliance wise). Secondly this could be the introduction to not only the Cross-Faction play but a Lightbound Undead allied race to fill a neutral spot and help bridge that Crossplay feel.

I mean speculation would further introduce Calia as the leader of the LB Undead but have her aides such as Voss and Derek Proudmoore be the Liaison for Horde and Alliance. It could canonically work.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Nazamber
wanted to expand.

[Arcling 891]

26 minutes ago, Nazamber said:

If anything this could mean several things. We are going to get a Heritage Armor set for the Undead (which we are still missing Undead/Trolls/Orcs Hordewise and Draenei/Night Elf/Human Alliance wise). Secondly this could be the introduction to not only the Cross-Faction play but a Lightbound Undead allied race to fill a neutral spot and help bridge that Crossplay feel.

This would be interesting, if they are going to use this occasion to build up their story. So far there are some datamined heritage weapons for Dark Irons and Blood Elves coming in the next patch, perhaps we will get missing armor and weapons for other races as well.

[VictorVakaras 80]

Forsaken paladins incoming.  😁  

[TheFallen1287 6]

12 hours ago, Brutalis said:

Calia was a mistake.

why? I have absolutely no problem with it.

[TheFallen1287 6]

10 hours ago, Devylknyght said:

Just when you think it can't get worse....

You had Sylvanas before, literally an upgrade.

[TheFallen1287 6]

12 hours ago, Prophet001 said:

Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia.... Please no Calia....

 

Office guy screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Let me guess, Sylvanas simp? gtfo man lol

[Nakzul 37]

Watch out - we have a tough guy!

[Prophet001 564]

7 hours ago, TheFallen1287 said:

Let me guess, Sylvanas simp? gtfo man lol

This is the Forsaken intro:

Bound to the iron will of the tyrant Lich King, the vast Undead armies of the Scourge seek to eradicate all life on Azeroth. Led by the Banshee Sylvanas Windrunner, a group of renegades broke away from the Scourge and freed themselves of the Lich King's domination. Known by some as the Forsaken, this group fights a constant battle not only to retain its freedom from the Scourge, but also to slaughter those who would hunt them as monsters. With Sylvanas as their Banshee Queen, the Forsaken have built a dark stronghold beneath the ruins of Lordaeron's former capital city. This hidden Undercity forms a sprawling labyrinth that stretches beneath the haunted woods of Tirisfal Glades.

 

Though the very land is cursed, the zealous Humans of the Scarlet Crusade still cling to their scattered holdings, obsessed with the eradication of the Undead and retaking their homeland. Convinced that the primitive races of the Horde can help them achieve victory over their enemies, the Forsaken have entered an alliance of convenience. Harboring no true loyalty for their new allies, they go to any lengths to ensure their dark plans come to fruition. As one of the Forsaken, you must massacre any who pose a threat to the new order, Human, Undead, or otherwise.

 Caelia fits nowhere into that description of the Forsaken.

[Nazamber 38]

2 hours ago, Prophet001 said:

This is the Forsaken intro:

Bound to the iron will of the tyrant Lich King, the vast Undead armies of the Scourge seek to eradicate all life on Azeroth. Led by the Banshee Sylvanas Windrunner, a group of renegades broke away from the Scourge and freed themselves of the Lich King's domination. Known by some as the Forsaken, this group fights a constant battle not only to retain its freedom from the Scourge, but also to slaughter those who would hunt them as monsters. With Sylvanas as their Banshee Queen, the Forsaken have built a dark stronghold beneath the ruins of Lordaeron's former capital city. This hidden Undercity forms a sprawling labyrinth that stretches beneath the haunted woods of Tirisfal Glades.

 

Though the very land is cursed, the zealous Humans of the Scarlet Crusade still cling to their scattered holdings, obsessed with the eradication of the Undead and retaking their homeland. Convinced that the primitive races of the Horde can help them achieve victory over their enemies, the Forsaken have entered an alliance of convenience. Harboring no true loyalty for their new allies, they go to any lengths to ensure their dark plans come to fruition. As one of the Forsaken, you must massacre any who pose a threat to the new order, Human, Undead, or otherwise.

 Caelia fits nowhere into that description of the Forsaken.

As a famous Orc once said many moons ago. "Time's Change".

 

No reason to be so narrow focused on this. An intro is something that can change with new direction of the writers. When you look at everything as is, none of it fits where we are Post-Battle for Azeroth/Shadowlands. I mean if we stuck on Undead Intro (which is still very much post-WotLK / Cata) there wouldn't be a starting zone, right? I do remember the Alliance besieging Tirisfal Glades and forcing the Forsaken living within Tirisfal Glade to fall back to the Undercity, which then was devastated by Sylvanas and her plague. This is why these intros are irrelevant  to the what has happened "now". Additionally, Sylvanas is no longer going to be the faction leader for the Forsaken after 9.2 and beyond.

Here is what you have to look at...the book Before the Storm established that the Desolate Council wanted to make connections with their loved ones. They did but also lost everything because Caelia (killed by Sylvanas, resurrected by the Saa'ra) was a threat to what Sylvanas had in mind for her goals. She didn't want to lose her people. Well...move through the BfA campaign, Sylvanas destroys the Forsaken home and then ultimately abandons them. (I wont knock on Blizz's story writing here) However, in between the mess and post the Siege of Orgrimmar 2...Caelia, Voss and Derek are working to getting the Undead Night Elves and Forsaken, who felt betrayed back to a place where they didn't feel insignificant. Taking this...Caelia very much fits as the leader for the New Forsaken...which in turn may no longer be called the Forsaken. I mean there is so much that the writers can do post-BfA/SL for the Undead that it wouldn't surprise me if they chose to revamp the starting zone for them. However, that comes at the price that everything controlled by Undead would have to change such as Silverpine Forest quests, but I generally do see them revamping Tirisfal and promoting Caelia with Voss and Derek as her advisors for Post-SL people and maintaining the Cata Starting Zone as is.

[Prophet001 564]

5 minutes ago, Nazamber said:

As a famous Orc once said many moons ago. "Time's Change".

They do change but the Forsaken are, arguably, the only "bad guy" race in the game.

We don't need to turn them into Mary Poppins tink tinks with protruding bones.

Do that with some other race and let the Forsaken stay dark. In that same line of thought, Caelia is literally the antithesis of 'dark'.

  

5 minutes ago, Nazamber said:

Voss

 

Edit: If people hate Sylvanas so much, which is weird imo but anyway, then Voss or someone akin to her makes way way more sense thematically and modus operandi wise.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Prophet001

[Nazamber 38]

21 minutes ago, Prophet001 said:

They do change but the Forsaken are, arguably, the only "bad guy" race in the game.

We don't need to turn them into Mary Poppins tink tinks with protruding bones.

Do that with some other race and let the Forsaken stay dark. In that same line of thought, Caelia is literally the antithesis of 'dark'.

  

 

Edit: If people hate Sylvanas so much, which is weird imo but anyway, then Voss or someone akin to her makes way way more sense thematically and modus operandi wise.

This is where I think you are missing the point. The Forsaken are not truly the "bad guys". They are what they are being twisted remnants of their former lives after spending months to years under the domination of the Lich King. When Sylvanas gained control of the Undercity and fought back the scourge, she needed allies. She sent word to the Alliance but because of their "condition" of course the Humans said no. This enraged her but it was the Taurens that saw promise and they promoted to Thrall that the Forsaken should join. The Forsaken also encouraged that Lor'thermar side with Horde because yet again...Humans (i.e. Garithos) played in their own bigotry and failed the Blood Elves.

Do certain Undead have some sinister tendencies? Yes. but not every Undead was actual "Evil". If you do the quest lines in Vanilla or TBC Classic, a lot of those folks were individuals trying to figure out what happened. There is even a quest line helping an Undead NPC find their family. I think bringing some more humanity to the Undead doesn't make them "Mary Poppins" which doesn't make sense but I am assuming you are trying to say "soft"? Anyways, I believe it gives the Undead a new purpose which is something they need after their identity has changed. Voss doesn't want to lead the faction, she wants Caelia to lead it. Caelia doesn't want to lead it because she isn't experienced and Derek, well its Derek...Again, It makes total sense for the direction of the Undead in WoW to be lead by Caelia with her advisors being both Voss and Derek. It is good for their narrative and it is good for the promotion and direction of Cross-faction play. 

[Prophet001 564]

2 minutes ago, Nazamber said:

This is where I think you are missing the point. The Forsaken are not truly the "bad guys". They are what they are being twisted remnants of their former lives after spending months to years under the domination of the Lich King. When Sylvanas gained control of the Undercity and fought back the scourge, she needed allies. She sent word to the Alliance but because of their "condition" of course the Humans said no. This enraged her but it was the Taurens that saw promise and they promoted to Thrall that the Forsaken should join. The Forsaken also encouraged that Lor'thermar side with Horde because yet again...Humans (i.e. Garithos) played in their own bigotry and failed the Blood Elves.

Do certain Undead have some sinister tendencies? Yes. but not every Undead was actual "Evil". If you do the quest lines in Vanilla or TBC Classic, a lot of those folks were individuals trying to figure out what happened. There is even a quest line helping an Undead NPC find their family. I think bringing some more humanity to the Undead doesn't make them "Mary Poppins" which doesn't make sense but I am assuming you are trying to say "soft"? Anyways, I believe it gives the Undead a new purpose which is something they need after their identity has changed. Voss doesn't want to lead the faction, she wants Caelia to lead it. Caelia doesn't want to lead it because she isn't experienced and Derek, well its Derek...Again, It makes total sense for the direction of the Undead in WoW to be lead by Caelia with her advisors being both Voss and Derek. It is good for their narrative and it is good for the promotion and direction of Cross-faction play. 

You don't need to 'redeem' the undead and the undead don't want to be 'redeemed'. They want to make plagues and experiment on the living and rot wolves in the forest and generally do w/e whenever they feel is necessary to survive with no true allegiances to anyone. Sometimes not even each other.

Modern writers are so out of touch with the original concept of the Forsaken that they refuse to see that and they're trying to write them like some kind of misunderstood child who "was really nice at heart" and they're going to write as coming home to be friends with everyone again.

No true undead wants that. Only the people that want to play good guys with bones sticking out.

[Nazamber 38]

3 minutes ago, Prophet001 said:

You don't need to 'redeem' the undead and the undead don't want to be 'redeemed'. They want to make plagues and experiment on the living and rot wolves in the forest and generally do w/e whenever they feel is necessary to survive with no true allegiances to anyone. Sometimes not even each other.

Modern writers are so out of touch with the original concept of the Forsaken that they refuse to see that and they're trying to write them like some kind of misunderstood child who "was really nice at heart" and they're going to write as coming home to be friends with everyone again.

No true undead wants that. Only the people that want to play good guys with bones sticking out.

How is giving the Undead more identity, redemption? and how do you know that certain Undead don't want redemption? I mean if Lightbound Undead were a thing, what is not to say that they won't be Undead that chose the light? I mean, it would solve so many issues that they have wielding the light. Undead Priests are said to burn themselves when wielding the Light and that every spell is so painful that some beg for mercy. The pain from the light is what caused Shadow to come into fruition.

Also, not every Undead works in the Apothecary ward...I doubt all of them want to work experiments and kill puppies. The broadness of your statements nearly invalidate your argument; however, if YOUR character likes do what you say...then there you go...you can still be the Angsty Emo Undead guy pvping and griefing lowbies.

 

[Prophet001 564]

10 minutes ago, Nazamber said:

How is giving the Undead more identity, redemption? and how do you know that certain Undead don't want redemption? I mean if Lightbound Undead were a thing, what is not to say that they won't be Undead that chose the light? I mean, it would solve so many issues that they have wielding the light. Undead Priests are said to burn themselves when wielding the Light and that every spell is so painful that some beg for mercy. The pain from the light is what caused Shadow to come into fruition.

Also, not every Undead works in the Apothecary ward...I doubt all of them want to work experiments and kill puppies. The broadness of your statements nearly invalidate your argument; however, if YOUR character likes do what you say...then there you go...you can still be the Angsty Emo Undead guy pvping and griefing lowbies.

 

Dude the whole city is like abom factory, plague factory, plague river, killing dwarves and others to test, humans in cages...

...like why *why* are people trying to write some "misunderstood wholesome dead guy" trope?

I don't get it. Leave them alone.

 

Leave britney alone too... she dindu 😄

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Prophet001

[Teufel 331]

1 hour ago, Prophet001 said:

Dude the whole city is like abom factory, plague factory, plague river, killing dwarves and others to test, humans in cages...

...like why *why* are people trying to write some "misunderstood wholesome dead guy" trope?

I don't get it. Leave them alone.

 

Leave britney alone too... she dindu 😄

 

There's that little thing called "being an individual".

And you advocate for is Scourge-like zombified drones, physically and mentally. Basically going against the concept of free will with is their entire defining characteristic. Ironic, eh.

[Prophet001 564]

6 minutes ago, Teufel said:

There's that little thing called "being an individual".

And you advocate for is Scourge-like zombified drones, physically and mentally. Basically going against the concept of free will with is their entire defining characteristic. Ironic, eh.

No yeah for sure let individuals go their way.

The Forsaken as a whole though...

[Nazamber 38]

17 hours ago, Prophet001 said:

No yeah for sure let individuals go their way.

The Forsaken as a whole though...

Oh, so individuals can go their own way but the "Forsaken" should be just like the Scourge? Even though as Teufel said, goes against everything that they are?

[Prophet001 564]

2 hours ago, Nazamber said:

Oh, so individuals can go their own way but the "Forsaken" should be just like the Scourge? Even though as Teufel said, goes against everything that they are?

Imagine if Blizz decided that Tauren had a change of heart and came around to the Goblin way of thinking.

Subsequently, they started the deforestation and mechanization of Mulgore and the surrounding areas as a nation. As a whole.

That makes about as much sense as what Blizz is doing to Undead right now.

Anyway, I'm done arguing this. I think what I think and you think what you think and that's fine. Have a great weekend 😄 Hope you get some sweet drops.