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Paladin Changes in Dragonflight Alpha Build 45232

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56652-paladin-class-changes-in-patch-905

Paladins received some minor adjustments including a new talent (Sentinel Sentinel) in Dragonflight Alpha 45232.

Paladin

Baseline

  • Turn Evil Turn Evil - The power of the Light compels an Undead, Aberration, or Demon target to flee for up to 40 sec. Damage may break the effect. Lesser creatures have a chance to be destroyed. Only one target can be turned at a time. Limited to 1 target(s)

Retribution

New Talents

  • Sentinel Sentinel - Gain 15 stacks of Divine Resolve, increasing your maximum health by 2% and reducing your damage taken by 2% per stack for 20 sec. After 5 sec, you will begin to lose 1 stack per second, but each 3 Holy Power spent will delay the loss of your next stack by 1 sec. Combines with Avenging Wrath. (Instant, 2 min cooldown)

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That's it? I don't see much of an improvement. Still no information on how other classes do so much more damage that Rets. Even when they are 10-20 ilvls lower than the Ret.

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2 hours ago, volkfire said:

That's it? I don't see much of an improvement. Still no information on how other classes do so much more damage that Rets. Even when they are 10-20 ilvls lower than the Ret.

Oh noes, "other classes" do more damage than niche dps spec on ALPHA! UNSUB!!!

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4 hours ago, Teufel said:

Oh noes, "other classes" do more damage than niche dps spec on ALPHA! UNSUB!!!

You say that now, but remember when Retribution Paladin was nicknamed lolret? which stayed around for several years until they were finally buffed, but got overbuffed and were OP, but the moment pvp'ers cried, it got nerfed.....kinda shows their priority.

But atleast Justicar Vengeance is now worthwhile to use when you need to do dps and heal yourself at the same time....though it could do with a buff to how much it heals, but, that is just me.

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6 hours ago, Teufel said:

Oh noes, "other classes" do more damage than niche dps spec on ALPHA! UNSUB!!!

really? by that logic shadow priest should do less dmg then every other dps to because its the niche dps spec of a heal class. 

they should either get all specs to simmilar lvls of dps or just say they dont want retri to be dps and make him an real support spec 

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16 hours ago, Starseed said:

really? by that logic shadow priest should do less dmg then every other dps to because its the niche dps spec of a heal class. 

they should either get all specs to simmilar lvls of dps or just say they dont want retri to be dps and make him an real support spec 

You don't seem to get what "niche dps" is.

I.e. SP does good ST, but sucks *filtered* when strong AoE is invovled unless you spec for it, WW, meanwhile, does a lot of AoE but nothing will let them be strong ST, and Ret's profile is fine, but only if raid encounter timings or your m+ pull pattern factors in you doing damage only once per 2 mins. You sign up for a 1-dps spec class - you expect that kind of thing, not whine on forums like that guy. Even more so since it's Alpha and half the trees are only conceptualizing and NONE are finalized.

And frankly, playing in a raidgroup of similarly skilled people consistenty hitting 99+ brackets, if the guy on Ret gets consistently outdpsed "so much more" by 10-20 lower ilvl players - the issue is most certainly sitting right in front of his screen.

Edited by Teufel

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1 hour ago, Teufel said:

You don't seem to get what "niche dps" is.

I.e. SP does good ST, but sucks *filtered* when strong AoE is invovled unless you spec for it, WW, meanwhile, does a lot of AoE but nothing will let them be strong ST, Ret's and profile is fine, but only if raid encounter timings or your m+ pull pattern gactors in you doing damage only once per 2 mins. You sign up for a 1-dps spec class - you expect that kind of thing, not whine on forums like that guy. Even more so since it's Alpha and half the trees are only conceptualizing and NONE are finalized.

And frankly, playing in a raidgroup of similarly skilled people consistenty hitting 99+ brackets, if the guy on Ret gets consistently outdpsed "so much more" by 10-20 lower ilvl players - the issue is most certainly sitting right in front of his screen.

you are right on the last part in that case the problem might really is in front of the screen.

sure the trees arent final and there is room for many things but lets be real i dont think there will be much change and i stand to what i said earlier. just because the class you picked has only one dps tree doesnt make you deserve to just be weaker compared to a full three tree dps class. they should either look for keeping every dps tree on a similar lvl (wich doesnt mean you cant have a tree that is better at single or aoe) or they should just go for it and make the dps trees of those classes more of a support tree that dishes out some dmg but is intendet to be much weaker then a pure dps class but comes with a whole arsenal of support stuff for his group so you have a reason to take one or to into your raid. only thing i see that could be hard is to make them good enough so they can take up a dps slot in m+ without being to strong when you stack them in a raid.

 

edit: and before i forget it that guy has all the rights to come into forums and "whine" because its a place to discuss what you like and what not when did this stuff even started that we try to shame people when they give there opinnion just because we dont have the same? as long as it isnt some totally ridicules stuff they say the are entitelt to say they think rets are not strong enough and that this isnt fair thats not whining. in the "good old days" of wow where the community was so much better like all the people remind you under every second post that was normal stuff

Edited by Starseed

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20 hours ago, Starseed said:

So... many... words!

It's not about them being 'weaker', it's about them having little versatility against a multi-spec DPS class, that can adapt to a multitude of damage profiles. "Support classes" are hardly needed for the reasons I mentioned in another thread - it just increases reliance on having one, leading to more and more specs becoming a staple you need to fill in a raid/m+/arena team, limiting the variety of who else you can bring.

What you speak of is an unreachable Utopia, since bosses will always feature environments where certains specs will be stronger than others (target counts, spawn timers, vulnerability phases, FCKUMELEE mechanics, and so on), so there will be no 'same lvl' DPS at all unless every boss is a Patchwerk.
And in regards to creating a spec that is 'good/has tools for anything' that you may think of, I'm pointing you towards 6.1 Demonology Warlocks. Who, with very little talent changes, were so good at virtually any damage profile it took a flat 25% damage nerf on EVERY ability for Destruction and Affliction to be viable again. And even that didn't kill it completely, a couple of Mythic progression fights in HFC still had Demonology as the prime spec for the job. 

PS: While, I'd mostly agree, it's a 'discussion' when there's a factual issue you bring up that needs to be discuss. In this case, factual issue is a player being bad, and him not recognizing it, not Retribution, what is there to discuss?

Edited by Teufel

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2 hours ago, Teufel said:

It's not about them being 'weaker', it's about them having little versatility against a multi-spec DPS class, that can adapt to a multitude of damage profiles. "Support classes" are hardly needed for the reasons I mentioned in another thread - it just increases reliance on having one, leading to more and more specs becoming a staple you need to fill in a raid/m+/arena team, limiting the variety of who else you can bring.

What you speak of is an unreachable Utopia, since bosses will always feature environments where certains specs will be stronger than others (target counts, spawn timers, vulnerability phases, FCKUMELEE mechanics, and so on), so there will be no 'same lvl' DPS at all unless every boss is a Patchwerk.
And in regards to creating a spec that is 'good/has tools for anything' that you may think of, I'm pointing you towards 6.1 Demonology Warlocks. Who, with very little talent changes, were so good at virtually any damage profile it took a flat 25% damage nerf on EVERY ability for Destruction and Affliction to be viable again. And even that didn't kill it completely, a couple of Mythic progression fights in HFC still had Demonology as the prime spec for the job. 

PS: While, I'd mostly agree, it's a 'discussion' when there's a factual issue you bring up that needs to be discuss. In this case, factual issue is a player being bad, and him not recognizing it, not Retribution, what is there to discuss?

you have good points and you are probably right that it is a very utopian idea and it sure is good that certain classes are better at one thing then others ( hell i was a affliction lock for most of my time and when ever we faced multi bosses i knew im first place no matter what the other classes do) as long as you keep it at not to crazy diffrences because then it kinda feels like you are much worse not because of skill or equipment but because you choose the wrong class.

 

btw with dps being a constant thing people fight about because everyone wants to be the big shot i wonder how a supp class would be acceptet by the playerbase when you know you will always be at the bottom but you are amplifing the other dds and heals might cause some fights ^^ 

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