Clarification (regarding Balance Druid DPS rotation)

[Trigunas 0]

1. Regarding applying and refreshing dots, it's noted that "There is currently a lack of consensus on whether or not both DoTs should be kept up at all times."

I assume this is primarily directed at non-eclipse phases. For instance, you're approaching lunar phase (80 energy away) and moonfire falls off. Has there been any consensus as to whether or not it would be best to hold off on refreshing moonfire/sunfire in such a situation? If so, and even better, have any exact numbers/time values been supplied for when you should/should not be re-applying dots?

2. a. Let's say an AoE phase (think Yor'sahj lots of adds) starts. I'm currently at the beginning of a Lunar phase. Do I stay in lunar, or do I hurriedly switch to Solar? What if I'm at the last notch of a Lunar Phase? And, if I do switch to Solar, do I still cast Wild Mushrooms along the way?

b. For the same situation, let's say I'm, assumedly, ~5 seconds away from the AoE phase, and currently at the last notch of a Solar phase. Do I hold out and sit in Solar (spamming Starfire unless dots need to be refreshed), or do otherwise?

Pardon me for possibly not doing enough research, but I just have not seen anything that directly answers these. Also, if I'm misinterpreting anything for some reason, I would appreciate it if someone would tell me otherwise.

3. For two targets, would I maintain a constant uptime of dots on both?

- This kind of goes back to the first question.

Thank you!

Edited October 29, 2012 by Damien

[Vlad 411]

1. Regarding applying and refreshing dots, it's noted that "There is currently a lack of consensus on whether or not both DoTs should be kept up at all times."

I assume this is primarily directed at non-eclipse phases. For instance, you're approaching lunar phase (80 energy away) and moonfire falls off. Has there been any consensus as to whether or not it would be best to hold off on refreshing moonfire/sunfire in such a situation? If so, and even better, have any exact numbers/time values been supplied for when you should/should not be re-applying dots?

2. a. Let's say an AoE phase (think Yor'sahj lots of adds) starts. I'm currently at the beginning of a Lunar phase. Do I stay in lunar, or do I hurriedly switch to Solar? What if I'm at the last notch of a Lunar Phase? And, if I do switch to Solar, do I still cast Wild Mushrooms along the way?

b. For the same situation, let's say I'm, assumedly, ~5 seconds away from the AoE phase, and currently at the last notch of a Solar phase. Do I hold out and sit in Solar (spamming Starfire unless dots need to be refreshed), or do otherwise?

Pardon me for possibly not doing enough research, but I just have not seen anything that directly answers these. Also, if I'm misinterpreting anything for some reason, I would appreciate it if someone would tell me otherwise.

3. For two targets, would I maintain a constant uptime of dots on both?

- This kind of goes back to the first question.

Thank you!

Hello.

Sorry for the delayed response, but I've somehow missed your thread.

It's not easy answering your questions at this time, because, as I said, there is a lot of uncertainty and we really need to get into the swing of raiding before the optimal ways of doing things surface. However, here goes.

1. When I wrote that (and now too), I was referring to eclipse phases and non-eclipse phases alike. We do treat the refreshing of DoTs listed below assuming that you DO apply the non-eclipse DoT while you are in an eclipse, but this point is contentious, so we wanted to mention it. To put it differently, you will do very similar DPS even if you never use Moonfire during Solar Eclipse and Sunfire during Lunar Eclipse. I don't have the numbers to back things up now, and I think generally it's better to apply both DoTs, but this is what I was talking about. If and when this hypothesis is refuted, I will of course update the guide.

In the situation you mentioned (80 energy away from Lunar and Moonfire falls off), I would say absolutely wait to enter Lunar before re-casting it.

2. Regarding your points here, it's hard for me to offer an accurate answer, but I will say what I believe. Take it with a grain of salt (I've seen conflicting comments on this from many people, and haven't been able to test this myself).

a) In your first example, I would simply Starfall and go through Lunar normally. If the AoE phase is short and important, and it will end before you can make your way to Solar to start using Mushrooms, you can probably just spam Astral Storm. If you are close to exiting Lunar, you should just hurry up to get to Solar, and go ahead with Mushrooms, multi-dotting/Lunar Shower or Hurricane, depending on the situation.

B) Here, I think the decision really depends on the individual circumstances. You are going to have to figure out if it's more important for your raid that you do more DPS in this AoE phase, or more single target DPS before it. Personally, I'd probably just carry on with the rotation and get out of Solar. Just make sure you don't hit Lunar before the adds spawn, so that you can chain two Starfalls.

3. Yes, you should try to keep your DoTs up on both targets if at all possible.

Don't worry about the questions, they are good ones and legitimate. I hope I can give you a better reply in a few days when we see how this looks at level 90 on live. And perhaps someone else can reply :)

[Trigunas 0]

Wow, thank you. I didn't expect such a speedy response. Everything was answered, but I have a lingering question if you don't mind.

For AoE in Lunar (targets up for 15+ seconds), you would Starfall, Moonfire everything, then just spam Astral Storm (not worry about sunfire)? In other words, is Astral Storm worth it in that sense now?

Edited September 23, 2012 by Trigunas

[Zakkgard 4]

Astral Storm is worth it, yes. Not as valuable as Hurricane but still pretty much on par.

About your first post. Lets say you're progressing Yor heroic and we're back in ~january. From experience every balance druid knew, that if there's a black ooze incoming, you either delay eclipse (if you're in solar) or you rush to get into solar(or just a cast away from it, if there's blue ooze too). Then you'd just explode pre-planted mushrooms and plant new and sunfire everything and so on.

As of patch 5.0.4, there is no solar cleave, mushrooms do hardly any dmg and during solar only one of your dots is buffed. Things to note - an eclipsed Astral Storm is weaker than an eclipsed Hurricane, but stronger than an un-eclipsed Hurricane. What you would want to do with 4-5+ targets is BE IN SOLAR ECLIPSE :P Have mushrooms preplanted if you know where the mobs will be killed, dont plant. Use hurricane. For less targets with more hp, you would want to continue normal rotation while keeping dots on everything (which will increase your chance to get surge procs). Lunar shower doesn't generate any energy, so it will slow down the eclipse cycles and you will have to refresh dots outside eclipses, just keep in mind that whenever you enter eclipse you need to first refresh the eclipsed dot on all targets.

[Trigunas 0]

Thanks again. :)