Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Damien

Frost Death Knight 7.1

69 posts in this topic

The simplified rotation should not suggest leaving out soul reaper.  It deals shadowfrost damage in 6.0, so it's very strong, esp. for mastery-stacking dual wield.  Leaving out obliterate is a good suggestion, as I've read a couple theorycrafters saying it looks like maybe a +/- 1% difference to use oblit or not (esp. under heroism when you're GCD locked, allows you to avoid resource capping, since letting unholy runes rot is no longer worth it.)

 

 By contrast, leaving out soul reaper hurts your DPS a lot.  The T16M (mythic) simcraft profile shows the DPET of soul reaper at over 3.5x that of howling blast.  http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T16M.html#player1

 

Suggesting that as a simplification is just not helpful, because if there's one thing you're going to be sloppy with, soul reaper should not be it.  "Below 35%, using soul reaper on cooldown is the most important part of your rotation, for all specs."  -- Mendenbarr.  quoted from his quick guide to lvl90 DK dps.  In the comments, a last-minute buff to oblit led to the statement that mastercomplex is probably very slightly better.  But obviously mastersimple doesn't mean leaving out soul reaper anymore.

 

 Soul reaper is really easy to use, esp. as dual wield, since it just replaces a howling blast.  It hits for substantially more than a HB, so there's no point trying to gloss that over.  Making it easier to use soul reaper right on CD is part of why blood tap is a good choice.

 

 Also, some people are suggesting running more haste than before, even as dual wield. e.g. changing to Garrosh pants instead of Malkorok pants, if you have them.  http://tanncraft.wordpress.com/2014/10/11/6-0-2-death-knight-dps-results/  suggests a haste soft-cap of 430 rating for DW frost.

 

 With RP from AMS nerfed a lot, it's not like you'll be GCD-locked very much of the time.

 

 Mendenbarr's results put haste > 1/2 str, so all red sockets should be filled with 10haste/10mastery gems.  (Keen vermillion onyx cut, formerly exp/mastery).  I'm not suggesting giving up any mastery for haste, just str, since you would have been using str/mastery gems otherwise.  (Not worth skipping any socket bonuses now, not even 4 haste bonuses in rings, I think.)

 

 If you do get to the point where you're wasting resources on real fights, then you need to wear less haste by either swapping pieces, or gemming back to str/mastery.  If you're not getting the rune-regen benefits of your haste, you're just getting the KM procs and white damage, and that's nice but not as valuable.

Edited by Karsteck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm running about 400 haste just from having haste on a few pieces and putting 10haste/10mastery gems in all my red sockets. It seems like a good amount of haste to play master simple about the same way it used to be, except I definitely noticed that during bloodlust/hero I had to use a lot more obliterates because I was regenerating runes faster than I could burn them during lust.

 

Sometimes even without hero/lust I had to obliterate once or twice just because the Unholy runes were getting ahead of me.

 

One thing I did notice is that Rime seems to proc a lot more often off obliterates. I don't know if it's always been 45% chance, but it definitely seems worth it to obliterate more often if nearly half the time you get a free howling blast from it anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I did notice is that Rime seems to proc a lot more often off obliterates. I don't know if it's always been 45% chance, but it definitely seems worth it to obliterate more often if nearly half the time you get a free howling blast from it anyways.

 

 Rime's been 45% for all of MoP, at least.  It's a big part of what makes oblit worth using.

 

 I didn't try on anything but a target dummy yet, but even 440 haste (from switching gems and 2 pieces of gear) still left me with a lot of dead time (mastercomplex).  Mastersimple fills more GCDs to use the same runes, since HB + PS is 2 GCDs.  But as I understand it, mastercomplex is slightly more dps.

 

 I'll have to get a feel for when it's worth letting the rotation slide and ending up with an unholy rune that I can't spend except by dumping it with plague strike, vs. when I can oblit without risking worse mistakes with my rotation.  (like oblit with 2 death runes would be really bad, consuming KM would be somewhat bad.  Can often just wait for KM to proc again without capping runes or RP, though.)

Edited by Karsteck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did some math with my logs and posted a thread about mastersimple. Obliterate is abolutely the best use of an unholy rune, unless diseases are about to fall off, or you're plague leeching, and outbreak's cd has more than 6 seconds left.

 

KM proc on an obliterate is a loss, but there were a few occasions where I didn't have the RP to frost strike when a KM proc was up anyways. This is probably partially an issue of needing to save RP for killing machine unless I'm capped, but at the same time I wonder how much of a loss it really is if Obliterating would mean higher stacks from our 2pc bonus. getting 10 stacks has always been a bit of rng, but it's actually fairly difficult if not impossible to keep 10 stacks rolling now with mastersimple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have amended the simplified dual-wield rotation to reflect the true loss of DPS, which is much greater now. That said, while I agree that incorporating Soul Reaper in there is not hard, to do so would defeat the purpose of the simplified rotation. It's still only meant as a gateway to a better Frost rotation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did some math with my logs and posted a thread about mastersimple. Obliterate is abolutely the best use of an unholy rune, unless diseases are about to fall off, or you're plague leeching, and outbreak's cd has more than 6 seconds left.

 

 

 

hang on, we're using outbreak now?  I guess if oblit + whatever rime is worth on average is more than HB + PS, and we have the GCDs, then that makes sense.

 

KM proc on an obliterate is a loss, but there were a few occasions where I didn't have the RP to frost strike when a KM proc was up anyways. This is probably partially an issue of needing to save RP for killing machine unless I'm capped, but at the same time I wonder how much of a loss it really is if Obliterating would mean higher stacks from our 2pc bonus. getting 10 stacks has always been a bit of rng, but it's actually fairly difficult if not impossible to keep 10 stacks rolling now with mastersimple.

 

 2pc stacks from KM procs, not consuming it.  That's why there's a haste soft-cap for fitting in an extra autoattack into the window to refresh stacks.  KM proccing while already up (refreshing the KM buff to full duration) will add a stack of the 2pc buff.  Consuming KM with an oblit should be worth it if you're too low on RP to FS anyway.

 

 

 

I have amended the simplified dual-wield rotation to reflect the true loss of DPS, which is much greater now. That said, while I agree that incorporating Soul Reaper in there is not hard, to do so would defeat the purpose of the simplified rotation. It's still only meant as a gateway to a better Frost rotation.

 

 Simplified rotations like leaving out rupture as combat rogue should only be suggested when they're only a couple percent DPS loss at worst.  Nobody would suggest leaving Execute out of a warrior DPS guide.  If you're reading a guide at all, you want to know what you should be pressing.  Leaving out oblit is something worth suggesting as a simplification, but leaving out soul reaper doesn't reduce complexity much.  It's not a good choice for being one of the first things to let slide on a complex fight when you need to pay attention to more stuff.

 

 Soul reaper went from hitting for slightly more or even slightly less than HB depending on mastery, to hitting for a LOT more.  The guide's recommendation must change.

 

 If you're going to be making rotation mistakes, it should be something like not having runes ready for soul reaper when it comes off CD, not leaving it out on purpose.  I'd guess that not optimizing your rotation around consuming killing machine with FS right away would be less bad than skipping soul reaper.  Since you'd still consume killing machine.  Some with oblit, some with FS.

 

 So I'd suggest to people that need more attention on some fight, less on their rotation, that getting more casual about saving runic power when you don't have KM procced would be something you could afford to let slide.  You can keep pressing buttons and HB / FS will keep happening (and soul reaper), even if you end up letting some unholy rune regen time go to waste, or dump some RP without KM procced.  Being sloppy like that probably hurts you DPS less, and saves you more attention, than just forgetting about soul reaper.

 

 One thing I sometimes do when things get complicated is start tapping my blood tap button without really paying attention to whether it's optimal to blood tap then.  Lets me keep pressing buttons while I pay attention to the fight.  I don't macro blood tap, because I don't want to pop up a F rune when I already have 2 B (death) runes that I need to spend one of so they can be regening.  Or so I can get runes depleted so I can use plague leech closer to on CD, esp. if adds are going to spawn soon, and I want to get more gas in the resource tank before that, rather than plague leech while I'm missing out on multi-target howling blasting.

Edited by Karsteck
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dual wield rotation doesn't make sense. 

 

 

  1. (step 5)Use your Death and Frost runes on wow_icon_spell_frost_arcticwinds.jpg Howling Blast.
  2. (step 6) Use your Unholy Runes on wow_icon_spell_deathknight_classicon.jpg Obliterate.

 

if you're using all your death and frost runes on howling blast how will you ever have nothing else to do but still be able to obliterate? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dual wield rotation doesn't make sense. 

 

 

  1. (step 5)Use your Death and Frost runes on wow_icon_spell_frost_arcticwinds.jpg Howling Blast.
  2. (step 6) Use your Unholy Runes on wow_icon_spell_deathknight_classicon.jpg Obliterate.

 

if you're using all your death and frost runes on howling blast how will you ever have nothing else to do but still be able to obliterate? 

 

 They're in that order because it's more important to make sure your F and D runes are recharging than your U runes, but you do want all 3 rune pairs recharging to generate maximum runic power per minute.  On the pull, you'd probably oblit, HB, HB, as the quickest way to get your runes recharging.  Or you'd open with HB/PS, HB, HB, without outbreak.  Saving outbreak for sometime when you're going to have wait time in your rotation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dual wield rotation doesn't make sense. 

 

 

  1. (step 5)Use your Death and Frost runes on wow_icon_spell_frost_arcticwinds.jpg Howling Blast.
  2. (step 6) Use your Unholy Runes on wow_icon_spell_deathknight_classicon.jpg Obliterate.

 

if you're using all your death and frost runes on howling blast how will you ever have nothing else to do but still be able to obliterate? 

As Karsteck correctly pointed out, the idea is that you want to have all your runes recharging, but it is more important to have Frost and Death runes recharging than Unholy runes. The idea is to never Obliterate without an Unholy rune. When you have an Unholy rune, you use it with another Frost or Death rune to Obliterate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the guide, it's very helpful. I had a question, though. The guide suggests that, at the very highest levels of play, Blood Tap is the best choice for 2H Frost. However, the rotation provided for 2H Frost assumes the user has chosen Runic Empowerment. Any chance we could get an explanation of why Blood Tap is optimal for 2H Frost, and/or a 2H rotation that reflects having Blood Tap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I had a question too, for the Glyph Runic Power, wouldn't you be able to use the Glyph Pillar of Frost to slow yourself to proc Runic Power for the boost to runic power? Or am i reading that wrong, because if these two work together i think they will be much better than the other options for a dps increase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting.  I just came back to WoW, haven't played since Wrath, and I came up with this exact rotation on my 2h frost DK.

From my experience, if you aren't geared, Dual Wield feels really underwhelming.  I had roughly 2 blue 1h weapons of equal item level to my 2h, and the DPS just doesn't compare.

I don't understand prioritizing crit over mastery in 2h builds.  I feel like I get a lot of KM procs and that mastery feels better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the guide, it's very helpful. I had a question, though. The guide suggests that, at the very highest levels of play, Blood Tap is the best choice for 2H Frost. However, the rotation provided for 2H Frost assumes the user has chosen Runic Empowerment. Any chance we could get an explanation of why Blood Tap is optimal for 2H Frost, and/or a 2H rotation that reflects having Blood Tap?

 

For DW frost, Bloodtap is the better choice because it's easier and more consistent for gaming your unholy runes and turning them into death runes which can be used for howling blast.

 

for 2H all runes can be used for obliterate so it is most important to use the talent with the highest rune regen rate, which is Runic Empowerment. But even with higher haste where bloodtap may sim higher, the rotation won't actually change, and you can just macro blood tap onto frost strike without any loss of dps, whereas macro'ing blood tap for DW is a dps loss every time you use it on something other than an unholy rune.

 

The most important thing is too make sure if you are using RE that you have a fully depleted rune ready for a proc any time you frost strike, and for Blood tap that you have a fully depleted rune and use blood tap before reaching 12 charges. basically not wasting procs is the most important thing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I had a question too, for the Glyph Runic Power, wouldn't you be able to use the Glyph Pillar of Frost to slow yourself to proc Runic Power for the boost to runic power? Or am i reading that wrong, because if these two work together i think they will be much better than the other options for a dps increase.

 

I'm going to test this tonight. I've found one or two other people asking this question, but nobody has answered it yet, that I can find. If it does work, you could also use Death's advance to essentially remove the slow effect as well. I'll post my findings after I jump into the beta tonight to try it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting.  I just came back to WoW, haven't played since Wrath, and I came up with this exact rotation on my 2h frost DK.

From my experience, if you aren't geared, Dual Wield feels really underwhelming.  I had roughly 2 blue 1h weapons of equal item level to my 2h, and the DPS just doesn't compare.

I don't understand prioritizing crit over mastery in 2h builds.  I feel like I get a lot of KM procs and that mastery feels better. 

 

It all comes down to 2H doing 40% extra damage with obliterate, and crits being double damage for DK's. even though 1/3 of our obliterates are already crits from KM procs, it's still more of a gain to add more crit than to have mastery which only buffs howling blast, frost strike, and frost fever and does 0 for obliterate. If anything, even if you were in a situation where you're at like 80%+ obliterate crits then haste > 600 rating would probably still be better than mastery, except maybe in heavy aoe/cleave situations where you're howling blasting a lot even as 2H, but if there's a boss fight like that you should go DW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For DW frost, Bloodtap is the better choice because it's easier and more consistent for gaming your unholy runes and turning them into death runes which can be used for howling blast.

 

for 2H all runes can be used for obliterate so it is most important to use the talent with the highest rune regen rate, which is Runic Empowerment. But even with higher haste where bloodtap may sim higher, the rotation won't actually change, and you can just macro blood tap onto frost strike without any loss of dps, whereas macro'ing blood tap for DW is a dps loss every time you use it on something other than an unholy rune.

 

The most important thing is too make sure if you are using RE that you have a fully depleted rune ready for a proc any time you frost strike, and for Blood tap that you have a fully depleted rune and use blood tap before reaching 12 charges. basically not wasting procs is the most important thing

 

 

 You're making a logical error about blood tap (for DW).  Unless you sit there with both U runes full (regardless of one of them currently being a death rune), you're getting the same amount of U runes per minute with BT or gamed RE.  i.e. exactly the base rune regen rate, with no more and no fewer due to procs.  Turning a U rune into a D rune doesn't turn any of your U rune-regen into D runes, it just puts your extra procced rune there, forcing you to spend it before your still-U rune finishes regening if you want to avoid capping U runes.  (Avoiding capping on U runes is still your lowest priority, so KM, soul reaper, and avoiding capping F and D runes or RP are still more important.  Better to dump RP and THEN spend your U rune if you can't avoid one or the other capping.)

 

 Using BT to generate extra D runes in the F or D pairs is fine, too, as long as you don't let them cap and lose out on the rune-regen for those pairs.

 

 The reason you shouldn't macro BT is because popping a rune up when you aren't about to spend it could lead to capping on runes while consuming a KM proc.  Or if you have 0 F, 2 D, and you BT, HB will spend the 1 F before you can spend one of the 2 D runes to start them regening.  If you're in that state with KM procced, you want to KM but absolutely not BT.

 

 Also, BT is a good way to make it easier to use soul reaper right on CD.

 

 And if you have a lot of haste as DW, if you are close to GCD locked, the consistency is important.  You'll cap on resources during a lucky streak of RE procs, or starve during a drought. (e.g. in my 585 frost gear, I have about 530, and can still avoid capping anything almost all the time, using mastercomplex.)  It's also hard to use all your KM on FS without potentially wasting RE procs, if you have multiple KMs proc in a row, and thus want to do 3 or 4 FS in a row.  With RE, the first or 2nd might have procced your only fully depleted rune, so you'd be wasting potential procs after that.  With BT, if you're at high RP and BT charges, it's prob. a good idea to pop a BT right then in case you need to keep dumping RP, and your rune might not be fully depleted when you hit 11 or 12 BT charges.

 

 

 If your haste% is a lot lower, like maybe first tier of WoD, RE might be more attractive for DW, since there will be more waiting time.  Less chance of capping resources during a lucky streak.  Although I'm not sure that's actually true, if you pool RP to wait for KM procs.  (still not capping runes or RP ever, just when you see some downtime coming, wait before you dump the RP you have).

 

 BT is nice for 2H because you can be ready to oblit in reaction to a KM without losing out on runes from spending RP.  With RE, you often need to oblit without KM just to get some fully depleted runes.  Often you'll have 1 rune up, 2 runes fully depleted, spending RP to proc runes.  Often KM will proc before a rune does, and then you are stuck spending it on KM.  Unless rune-regen is within a second or two of getting you another oblit, you risk losing out on a KM proc from the next autoattack.

 

 So basically, I'd say completely the opposite.  RE is very workable as DW, because it's really easy to game (just leave a U rune unspent at all times, dead simple).  You don't have to game it for 2H to control which kind of rune you proc, but the problem is you often have to leave yourself not ready to consume a KM proc.  If you really wanted to use RE, I'd suggest DW would be the spec to do it.  The simcraft T16M BiS profile uses blood tap for all 3 DPS DK setups, because it's better if you do it well.  They have blood using RC, I guess for more scent of blood?

 

 Non-macroed BT takes some learning, but if you have a good rune UI like compactrunes (highly HIGHLY recommend it), and a counter for your BT charges right next to it, you can do good things.  If you need to not be tunnelling on your runes during an attention-requiring part of the fight, just spam BT while you do your rotation.  I bind FS to backquote, BT to 1, oblit to 2, HB to 3, PS to 4.  So BT is right there in the middle of my buttons easy to press while moving and DPSing.

 

 Esp. if you also tank, it's a good idea to learn to BT.  Great way to keep a death strike banked up for when you need it.  And using the same RP->Rune talent for both your specs will help your sanity.

 

 Similarly to banking death strikes, un-macroed BT can let you save up howling blasts for adds, instead of being forced to spend runes according to RNG procs.

 

 Macroed BT can lead to resource capping that you could have avoided, but other than that I think it's an OK choice, on par with RE if I recall correctly.  I've never tried macroing it, myself.  I think people have made action lists to simulate macroed BT, so you can see in theory how much patchwerk DPS it costs to macro it, vs. managing it optimally.

 

 I'm not sure whether I'd suggest stepping up from mastersimple to mastercomplex, or un-macroing BT, as the first step for players that want to do better DPS when they can spare the attention for it.  Being able to unload more HB on adds when needed might make more difference.  mastercomplex is more helpful when you need to spend runes faster, like with good gear (high haste), and/or under heroism.  (or if there are phases where you can't spend runes, so you end up sitting on 6 full runes more than just on the pull.)

Edited by Karsteck
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I don´t understand. Whis Patch 6.0.2 there was a sentence into the Notes as follow "All specializations now receive a 5% bonus to specific secondary stat bonuses received from all sources. This bonus is granted through new passive abilities or additional effects added to existing passive abilities." For Frost DK they recommended Haste. But why a DW DK needs now mastery and a 2H DK Haste? I´m a little bit confused because what happens whis Mastery Frozen Heart in this case?

I have in the moment 330 Haste; 398 Mastery and 636 Crit. Maybe I´m wrong but I think I will increase now haste to max i can get instad of Crit...is it right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't seem to see a recommendation for Runeforging

Duel wielding DPS: Rune of Razorice and Rune of the Fallen Crusader.

Two handed DPS: Rune of the Fallen Crusader.

Two handed Tank: Rune of the Fallen Crusader.

From my experience anyway!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are runeforging recommendations on the enchants page :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What priority does defile have for 2H frost dks?

Same as DW, just under Soul Reaper. The guide is updated to fix the missing line :)

 

When will we see an update for level 100? Thanks

It has been since the day the expansion went live.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      The announced class changes are here, Nighthold fixes, more AP for ranked PvP and more PvP class changes. Garrosh now drops loot again in LFR too!
       
      The already announced and detailed class changes are covered in this edition, but we also have some Nighthold fixes, greater AP rewards for rated PvP and yet more PvP class tuning and long-standing issues addressed aka Garrosh not dropping loot in LFR.
      It seems the recently detailed trinket changes didn't show up in these hotfix notes, but they are slated to be released this reset, so it's a little unclear on what their status is.
      January 23 (source)
      Classes
      [All class changes below will take effect with weekly realm restarts in each region.]
      Druid
      Feral Increased the damage of most Feral spells and abilities by 8%. (Ashamane's Frenzy, Brutal Slash, Ferocious Bite, Maim, Moonfire, Rake, Shred, Swipe, Thrash, Rip) Designer Notes: Feral's playstyle feels good, but isn't putting up the numbers that it should be, so we're giving them an across-the-board damage buff.
      Hunter
      Combat Experience (Pet Passive) now increases the damage of primary pets by 60% (up from 50%). Designer Notes: This is primarily a damage buff to Beast Mastery, but will have a tiny benefit to Survival and occasionally Marksmanship as well. Marksmanship Arcane Shot now generates 8 Focus (up from 5). Multi-Shot now generates 3 Focus per target hit (up from 2). Sidewinders damage increased by 33%. Designer Notes: Marksmanship has given a lot of feedback that the rotation often winds up casting too many consecutive Focus generators. We are making two changes: first, helping avoid that problem by increasing the Focus generation of Arcane Shot and Multi-Shot. Second, making it more attractive to use Sidewinders in more situations, for players who prefer the pacing of the rotation with that talent.   Mage
      Arcane Increased the damage of most Arcane spells and abilities by 8%. (Arcane Barrage, Arcane Blast, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Orb, Nether Tempest, Supernova) Overpowered now increases the damage and mana cost bonuses of Arcane Power to 60% (down from 70%). Amplification now increases Arcane Missiles damage by 12% (down from 15%). Designer Notes: Arcane has been doing well in 7.1.5, but its numbers are lacking a bit. We're giving them an across-the-board damage buff, but tempering that with small reductions to a couple new talents that are proving to be too strong. Fire Increased the damage of most Fire spells and abilities by 3%. (Blast Wave, Cinderstorm, Dragon's Breath, Fire Blast, Fireball, Flame Patch, Flamestrike, Living Bomb, Meteor, Phoenix Flames, Pyroblast, Scorch) Pyroblast mana cost reduced by 20%. Flamestrikemana cost reduced by 17%. Designer Notes: Under certain circumstances, it was possible for Fire to run out of mana. It's only intended that mana is a constraint on Fire's utility, not its damage. Frost Increased the damage of most Frost spells and abilities by 4%. (Ebonbolt, Blizzard, Cone of Cold, Flurry, Frost Bomb, Frostbolt, Frozen Orb, Ice Lance, Ice Nova, Waterbolt, Ray of Frost, Water Jet) Comet Storm damage increased by 30%. Flurry now fires its missiles faster. Designer Notes: Comet Storm is failing to live up to expectations, so we're buffing its damage. The Flurry change will help Flurry feel more responsive, while simultaneously solving a potential issue where Winter's Chill could apply to two Ice Lances (instead of just one, as intended) at extremely high Haste levels.
      Monk
      Brewmaster Keg Smash damage increased by 10%, and it no longer deals reduced damage to 6+ targets. Breath of Fire damage increased 11%. Designer Notes: Brewmasters could use a bit of help on damage, especially in AoE.
      Paladin
      Retribution Crusade now increases damage and Haste by 3% per stack (down from 3.5%). Blade of Justice damage increased by 20%, unchanged in PvP. Designer Notes: Retribution's total damage is looking quite strong in 7.1.5, which is fine on its own. However, how that damage is delivered matters quite a bit as well. We've been seeing more and more than Paladins find that the optimal way to maximize their performance is to focus everything they can on boosting their damage during Crusade. This creates a number of problems, including: Crusade feels mandatory, your damage feels very unrewarding outside of Crusade, trinkets and artifact traits are viewed as either amazing or terrible based on whether they synergize with Crusade, and others.

      As such, we're going to tone down Crusade, and compensate with a buff to Blade of Justice. For those that had maximized Crusade to an extreme degree, this may result in a small overall nerf – this is intended. This change also helps prevent Divine Hammer from being too dominant in single-target situations.
      Warlock
      Destruction Chaos Bolt damage increased by 9%. Rain of Fire damage increased by 30%. Cataclysm damage increased by 29%. Designer Notes: Destruction's damage isn't as high as it should be. In particular, some of its spells that should feel the most rewarding aren't hitting hard enough, especially in AoE situations. We're buffing the damage of those spells.   Dungeons and Raids
      Fixed a bug where some Warlords dungeon bosses were not always dropping loot. The Windwalker Monk Vestments of Enveloped Dissonance (Tunic of Enveloped Dissonance) 2-piece bonus and the Restoration Druid Garb of the Astral Warden (Robe of the Astral Warden) 4-piece bonus should now scale down correctly in Timewalking dungeons. Siege of Orgrimmar Fixed a bug where Garrosh Hellscream would not drop loot on Raid Finder difficulty. The Nighthold High Botanist Tel’arn High Botanist Tel’arn now takes more time between using abilities on Normal difficulty. Gul’dan Resolved an issue where Resonant Barrier would fail to apply its effects if the player was under the effects of immunities. Resolved an issue where the Essence of Aman'thul abilities would disappear from players when using an immunity effect. Items
      Windwalker Monks who unequip the Vestments of Enveloped Dissonance (Tunic of Enveloped Dissonance) should no longer gain the 4-piece bonus. Feretory of Souls should no longer be activated by a spell that did not complete casting. Player versus Player
      [After realm maintenance in each region.] All Artifact Power rewards from Rated PvP have been substantially increased. Note: The PvP UI will not properly reflect the amount of Artifact Power that will be rewarded until a future patch. [After realm maintenance in each region.] Season 19 Achievements that should not have been granted have been correctly removed. You can no longer target a flag carrier with Guardian of the Forgotten Queen. Demon Hunter Eye of Leotheras will no longer scale with increased damage, and instead will always deal a maximum of 6% of the target’s health in damage each time it activates. Mage Ray of Frost cannot be channeled if the Mage is interrupted and locked out of the Frost School, as intended. Warlock Cremation now correctly only applies the damage-over-time effect of Immolate Cremation no longer allows Havoc to spread Immolate to a target who is out of line of sight of the Warlock when Incinerate or Immolate are cast. Professions
      Archaeology The Nor'danil Wellspring digsite is no longer displayed in the middle of the ocean. Quests
      Players on the quest "Fate of the Nightborne" will no longer be sent into a separate phase of the Nighthold until they have spoken to Oculeth to begin the quest. Felsworn Defilers now spawn in more locations during “The Felsworn Must Fall”. Previous hotfixes.
    • By Starym
      Update 2: Blizzard have posted actual numbers for the Convergence of Fates changes. They have been incorporated into the first blue post here.
      Update 1: There have been some new blue posts going even deeper into detail on the matter, check at the bottom of the article for them or click here.
      _________________________________________________________________
      We get specific details and numbers for the upcoming trinket changes, as well as an explanation and specifics on the Crusade nerf, both coming tomorrow with the reset. Still no exact stats for Convergence of Fates, but we get an idea of how it will end up in relation to specific specs and talents. You can check out the previous announcement of the changes here.
      Lore (source)
      In general, we’ve found that our tuning on trinkets which relied on a direct damage or healing effect (as opposed to their raw stats) have come up a bit short this expansion. To help address that, we’re making the following changes:
      Claw of the Crystalline Scorpid: Damage increased by 30%. Arcanogolem Digit: Damage increased by 30%. Entwined Elemental Foci: The amount of Critical Strike, Mastery, and Haste granted by this item’s proc has been increased by 5%. Might of Krosus: Base damage reduced by 25%, but is now always a critical strike. The tooltip for Might of Krosus will display the amount of damage that will result from the critical hit, not the base damage. Also fixed a bug where the cooldown was incorrectly being reduced if Might of Krosus damaged at least 3 targets. Draught of Souls: The Use effect of this trinket now respects the global cooldown. The damage of this trinket is now reduced by 30% for Unholy Death Knights (was reduced by 40%). Designer Notes: Since Draught of Souls deals Shadow Damage, it’s increased by Unholy’s Mastery, which means we needed to reduce its base damage to keep its overall value similar to other classes. It’s currently a little too low, however, so we’re increasing the damage it deals for Unholy. Icon of Rot: Damage increased by 40%. Pharamere's Forbidden Grimoire: Damage increased by 85%. Fury of the Burning Sky: Damage increased by 40%. Star Gate: Damage increased by 30%. Aluriel's Mirror: Healing-over-time amount increased by 140%. Detonation effect reduced by 35%. Designer Notes: Aluriel’s Mirror’s detonation effect is strong when it activates, but hard to rely on. We’re increasing the heal-over-time effect significantly to improve the up-front value of this trinket, and reducing the detonation effect slightly to compensate. Perfectly Preserved Cake: Absorb amount increased by 140%. Etraeus' Celestial Map: The amount of Critical Strike, Mastery, and Haste granted by this item’s proc has been increased by 5%.
      As for Convergence of Fates, we’re spending a little extra time to make sure our changes here are as comprehensive as possible, so we don’t have final numbers yet. However, we can share our overall plan for the changes we intend to make. We intend to reduce its base effectiveness (before talents) for Windwalkers, and increase its base effectiveness for Retribution Paladins and Frost and Unholy Death Knights. Separately, we plan to adjust its effectiveness individually for the following talents:
      Serenity (Windwalker) Crusade (Retribution Paladin) Incarnation: King of the Jungle (Feral Druid) Hungering Rune Weapon (Frost Death Knight) Dark Arbiter (Unholy Death Knight)
       UPDATE:
      Here's the changes we're looking to make for As for Convergence of Fates interaction with some of the throughput cooldowns it affects. These numbers are compared to the trinket's current performance on live, and are not additive with each other.
      Frost Death Knight with Empower Rune Weapon: +10% proc rate with Hungering Rune Weapon: -23% proc rate
        Unholy Death Knight with Summon Gargoyle: +68% proc rate with Dark Arbiterr: no change
        Feral Druid with Berserk: no change with Incarnation: King of the Jungle: -45% Note: Incarnation was not properly working with Convergence, which has now been fixed. The number given here is relative to Convergence's proc rate with Berserk.
        Windwalker Monk with Storm, Earth, and Fire: -62% proc rate with Serenity: -75% proc rate
        Retribution Paladin with Avenging Wrath: +250% proc rate with Crusade: +25% proc rate Note: This change should bring Convergence back to roughly its original effectiveness for Ret Paladins who are not using Crusade.
      Additionally, on the topic of tank trinkets, we'll be increasing Animated Exoskeleton's maximum shield amount by 33%. We're continuing to investigate tank trinkets, but that change will make it in for this week's hotfix.

      We’re planning to make these changes with the next weekly restarts, alongside the release of Mythic Nighthold. Overall, this should make the trinkets in Nighthold more competitive with other trinkets available elsewhere in the expansion.

      And the Crusade nerf explanation:
      Sigma (source)
      We are definitely keenly aware that people feel better when we fix a problem by buffing something, rather than fixing it by nerfing something. If you look across classes and talent rows in 7.1.5, you'll see the great majority of balance issues were addressed by buffing underperforming talents. There are a few factors that go into this decision though, and it generally has to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
      One issue when balancing a lopsided talent row is whether we want the overall power of the spec to go slightly up or slightly down in the process. In the case of Retribution during our tuning adjustments for the opening of Nighthold, we intended to slightly nerf the topend performance of the spec (essentially, the performance of players stacking trinkets/relics/legendaries that all build around Crusade). I know there's no easy way to deliver that message, but hopefully it's at least worth clarifying that it's not some accident of how we chose to balance the L100 row. Players say "why couldn't we buff Divine Purpose instead of nerfing Crusade", for the very understandable reason that the former wouldn't have resulted in a slight DPS nerf. But we were conscious of the slight DPS nerf when we decided to do it this way.
      Another factor is that there are sometimes limits on how powerful we want an individual talent to be, regardless of balance within the row. Divine Purpose and Crusade are both very strong talents, that have a significant impact on the rotation and playstyle of the spec (and as mentioned, on gear/talent/relic/etc. decisions), even at their current strength. Balancing Retribution L100 at an even higher point would start causing more issues--Divine Purpose would allow strings of multiple free finishers very often, Crusade would continue to represent a majority of the spec's damage within a cooldown, and Holy Wrath would have to get even more bursty to try to compete with the other two. Sometimes we have to be careful about addressing all balance problems by buffing two talents up to match the highest one, because it can lead to a lot of power creep on the importance of a single talent to an entire DPS rotation.
       
      Draught of Souls and Nightblooming Frond details:
      Lore
      We'll look into Draught of Souls and its effect for Warriors a bit more. Worth noting that the change to have it on the GCD does mean the trinket will be a bit weaker after these hotfixes for most classes (Unholy DK being the exception, due to the damage increase).
      Regarding the Unholy damage reduction for Draught, again, that's only there to counteract the fact that Unholy's Mastery increases Draught's damage. Either way, its damage is going up by ~17% with this hotfix, which is pretty substantial.
      We'll also take another look at Nightblooming Frond.

      Tank trinkets are on our to-do list, but not for this round of trinket tuning. We agree that they need some help.
    • By Starym
      Update: Added more Mage changes for all 3 specs, all get increased damage to most skills and Comet Storm's damage buff goes up to 30%.
      More class tuning coming next reset and Nighthold trinkets get re-assesed, featuring dev notes.

      More changes are afoot, as there's class tuning coming up next reset for Mythic week, featuring Druid, Hunter, Mage, Monk, Paladin and Warlock tinkering. Paladins also get another ray of hope that their beloved Convergence of Fates will get un-nerfedintotheground as Blizzard re-assess some Nighthold trinkets in the second blue post below.
      Lore (source)
      As we prepare for the opening of Mythic Nighthold, we're planning another round of balance tuning for a few specs. These will be applied with the next weekly maintenance.
      Druid
      Feral Increased the damage of most Feral spells and abilities by 8%. (Ashamane's Frenzy, Brutal Slash, Ferocious Bite, Maim, Moonfire, Rake, Shred, Swipe, Thrash, Rip) Designer Notes: Feral's playstyle feels good, but isn't putting up the numbers that it should be, so we're giving them an across-the-board damage buff.
      Hunter
      Combat Experience (Pet Passive) now increases the damage of primary pets by 60% (up from 50%). Designer Notes: This is primarily a damage buff to Beast Mastery, but will have a tiny benefit to Survival and occasionally Marksmanship as well. Marksmanship Arcane Shot now generates 8 Focus (up from 5). Multi-Shot now generates 3 Focus per target hit (up from 2). Sidewinders damage increased by 33%. Designer Notes: Marksmanship has given a lot of feedback that the rotation often winds up casting too many consecutive Focus generators. We are making two changes: first, helping avoid that problem by increasing the Focus generation of Arcane Shot and Multi-Shot. Second, making it more attractive to use Sidewinders in more situations, for players who prefer the pacing of the rotation with that talent.   Mage
      Arcane Increased the damage of most Arcane spells and abilities by 8%. (Arcane Barrage, Arcane Blast, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Orb, Nether Tempest, Supernova) Overpowered now increases the damage and mana cost bonuses of Arcane Power to 60% (down from 70%). Amplification now increases Arcane Missiles damage by 12% (down from 15%). Designer Notes: Arcane has been doing well in 7.1.5, but its numbers are lacking a bit. We're giving them an across-the-board damage buff, but tempering that with small reductions to a couple new talents that are proving to be too strong. Fire Increased the damage of most Fire spells and abilities by 3%. (Blast Wave, Cinderstorm, Dragon's Breath, Fire Blast, Fireball, Flame Patch, Flamestrike, Living Bomb, Meteor, Phoenix Flames, Pyroblast, Scorch) Pyroblast mana cost reduced by 20%. Flamestrikemana cost reduced by 17%. Designer Notes: Under certain circumstances, it was possible for Fire to run out of mana. It's only intended that mana is a constraint on Fire's utility, not its damage. Frost Increased the damage of most Frost spells and abilities by 4%. (Ebonbolt, Blizzard, Cone of Cold, Flurry, Frost Bomb, Frostbolt, Frozen Orb, Ice Lance, Ice Nova, Waterbolt, Ray of Frost, Water Jet) Comet Storm damage increased by 30%. Flurry now fires its missiles faster. Designer Notes: Comet Storm is failing to live up to expectations, so we're buffing its damage. The Flurry change will help Flurry feel more responsive, while simultaneously solving a potential issue where Winter's Chill could apply to two Ice Lances (instead of just one, as intended) at extremely high Haste levels.
      Monk
      Brewmaster Keg Smash damage increased by 10%, and it no longer deals reduced damage to 6+ targets. Breath of Fire damage increased 11%. Designer Notes: Brewmasters could use a bit of help on damage, especially in AoE.
      Paladin
      Retribution Crusade now increases damage and Haste by 3% per stack (down from 3.5%). Blade of Justice damage increased by 20%, unchanged in PvP. Designer Notes: Retribution's total damage is looking quite strong in 7.1.5, which is fine on its own. However, how that damage is delivered matters quite a bit as well. We've been seeing more and more than Paladins find that the optimal way to maximize their performance is to focus everything they can on boosting their damage during Crusade. This creates a number of problems, including: Crusade feels mandatory, your damage feels very unrewarding outside of Crusade, trinkets and artifact traits are viewed as either amazing or terrible based on whether they synergize with Crusade, and others.

      As such, we're going to tone down Crusade, and compensate with a buff to Blade of Justice. For those that had maximized Crusade to an extreme degree, this may result in a small overall nerf – this is intended. This change also helps prevent Divine Hammer from being too dominant in single-target situations.
      Warlock
      Destruction Chaos Bolt damage increased by 9%. Rain of Fire damage increased by 30%. Cataclysm damage increased by 29%. Designer Notes: Destruction's damage isn't as high as it should be. In particular, some of its spells that should feel the most rewarding aren't hitting hard enough, especially in AoE situations. We're buffing the damage of those spells.
      As always, there may be additional PvP-only tuning applied along with these changes. We'll share details on any such changes once they've been determined.
       
      Lore (source)
      We've been following the discussion on the recent changes to the Convergence of Fates trinkets for Retribution Paladins, as well as the surrounding discussions about trinket balance in general, and wanted to give a quick update on what we're planning:
      The original value of Convergence for Ret was wildly out of line with other trinkets, largely due to its interaction with Crusade. After investigation, however, we believe that the change we made may have overshot the mark. We’ll be making some additional adjustments to Convergence of Fate, to make sure that it’s still a good trinket for Ret.
      We’re also investigating Convergence’s value to other classes, particularly those with talents that replace the cooldowns that Convergence effects (such as Dark Arbiter for Unholy Death Knights). Like Crusade, those talents are made significantly more powerful when combined with Convergence of Fate, so we’ll likely need to make some adjustments when those kinds of talents are selected as well.
      We are also planning to improve Nighthold trinkets which have effects that aren’t a stat buff, such as the slam on Might of Krosus. We will post more information about this as soon as we have settled on the appropriate values, and are planning to make the changes with raid resets next week.
       
    • By Stan
      New achievements in 7.2 are tied to flying in Legion, collecting armor sets, unlocking new Artifact traits and reputation paragon. Order Class quests continue and two new tiers were added to Order Hall Advancement that can be researched.
      Patch 7.2: Build 23436
      Achievements
      Most of the achievements are related to unlocking new Artifact traits, reputation paragon and flying in Legion.
      7.2.0 40 Work Orders Sent A Challenging Look  Breaching the Tomb Broken Isles Pathfinder, Part Two Defender of the Broken Isles Dressed for Battle - Primal Gladiators Dressed for Battle - Vindictive and Fearless Gladiators Dressed to Impress the Fel Horde Dressed to Impress the Nightborne  Explore Broken Shore Fighting with Style: Challenging Grand Master Artificer Legionfall Commander Legion's Bane Master Artificer Paragon of the Broken Isles The Reputable They See Me Rolling Order Hall Advancement
      In Patch 7.2 there are two new tiers you can research. 
      Tier 7
      Research takes 60 minutes and costs 20,000 Order Resources.
      Costs 
      Column A Column B

      Tier 8
      Research takes two weeks and costs 30,000 Order Resources.
      Column A
    • By Sappora
      Methodical is in search of dedicated players that are looking to push content in a semi-hardcore environment. All of our raiders try to be on a first-name basis with each other. Our raids are very fun when it comes to farm and carries, however, we do clean up when it's time for progression. When it comes to raiding we do provide benefits, paid for by selling carries. 
      All-in-all we are looking for players willing to: consistently improve their performance, take responsibility, and synergize with a group of players. If this interests you, all of our info is below.
      Information:
      Guild: Methodical
      Creation: 2013
      Server: Bleeding Hollow
      Faction: Horde
      VoIP: Discord
      Raids:
      Raid Progression: See Progression Above.
      Raid Dates: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday.
      Raid Times: 9:30P-12:30A EST (Be online by 9:15P)
      Benefits:
      Spirit Cauldrons
      Potion Program
      Extensive Raid Repairs
      Recruitment:
      Those that are low we are not in need of but will trial, those medium and high are in need!
       
      deathknight (dd) low demon (hunter) low druid (balance) high druid (feral-dd) low hunter medium mage medium monk (healer) medium monk (dd) low paladin (retribution) low priest (dd) high rogue medium shaman (restoration) high warlock high  
      If interested please contact one of the players listed below we can give information about: Bleeding Hollow, Methodical, and our raids. 
      Contact Info:
      Merkshow#1993 (GM)
      Sappora#1724 (Recruitment)
      Headbandit64#1668 (Raid Leader)
      Franny#1457 (Officer)
      Borlax#1380 (Officer)