Damien

Arcane Mage 6.2

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This thread is for comments about our Arcane Mage guide.

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Your statements on a burn phase not working at current gears levels and low levels of mastery compared to the bonus stacks are inconsistent. While I do not have all the numbers needed (mana regen per second, missile proc chance, and so on) to prove the following mathematically, i do know that based on the numbers from the tooltips a burn should work. The burn might be short, but basic math principles says works.

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Your statements on a burn phase not working at current gears levels and low levels of mastery compared to the bonus stacks are inconsistent. While I do not have all the numbers needed (mana regen per second, missile proc chance, and so on) to prove the following mathematically, i do know that based on the numbers from the tooltips a burn should work. The burn might be short, but basic math principles says works.

What is inconsistent in my statements?

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Your statements on a burn phase not working at current gears levels and low levels of mastery compared to the bonus stacks are inconsistent. While I do not have all the numbers needed (mana regen per second, missile proc chance, and so on) to prove the following mathematically, i do know that based on the numbers from the tooltips a burn should work. The burn might be short, but basic math principles says works.

Please share your math! Genuinely interested here? You used the Markov Chain approach?

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hey

 

just to say that the MoP flasks are 114 intellect while the cataclysme flasks gives you 119intellect

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hey

 

just to say that the MoP flasks are 114 intellect while the cataclysme flasks gives you 119intellect

We've been aware of that for some time, but we believe that this is unintended and is going to get fixed very soon. I wouldn't want to tell people to go and waste gold getting Cataclysm enchants and flask, only for them to find out 2 days later that they bought them for nothing.

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I have personally found it MUCH better to only use 2 missile procs at 4 arcane charges even if u have 3 missile procs. Reasons being is it maximizes your time at 4 stacks of arcane charges. 

 

The scenario often presented is you have 3 missile procs. You use only 2; leaving 1 left over. After you have channeled 2 missile procs u are back at full mana and have room to cast arcane blast 2 more times as well as refresh your nether tempest: providing a total of 3 opportunities to gain a second missile proc. Going with the chances you gain a second missile you channel you 2 missile procs and you are back at full mana, and again have room to cast 2 arcane blasts at full mana, from here you barrage dump and repeat. I found this to be the best rotation.

 

 

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So i have been experimenting with the rotations and have found that it is better to use 2 arcane missiles rather than dumping all 3; reason being is it maximizes your time at 4 stacks in conjunction with gaining full benefits of your mastery.

 

The scenario often presented is you are at 4 stacks with 3 missile procs; instead of dumping all 3, only use 2. After channeling your 2 missiles you should be back at full mana and have room to cast arcane blast 2 more times and refresh your nether tempest, giving you 3 opportunities to gain a second missile proc. Going with the chances you get a second missile proc, you channel your 2 missiles and again you are at full mana. From here you cast arcane blast a couple more times, barrage dump your stacks and repeat.

 

Also, only using missiles when you have at least 2 stacks. Using just 1 missile proc then using arcane blast then barrage dumping really messes with your rhythm throughout the rest of fight and hurts your dps. If you only have one stack of arcane missiles by the time you have reached 4 stacks and refreshed your nether tempest you should immediately barrage dump and save you 1 missile proc for your next 4 stack period.

Edited by Kicks

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I have personally found it MUCH better to only use 2 missile procs at 4 arcane charges even if u have 3 missile procs. Reasons being is it maximizes your time at 4 stacks of arcane charges. 

 

The scenario often presented is you have 3 missile procs. You use only 2; leaving 1 left over. After you have channeled 2 missile procs u are back at full mana and have room to cast arcane blast 2 more times as well as refresh your nether tempest: providing a total of 3 opportunities to gain a second missile proc. Going with the chances you gain a second missile you channel you 2 missile procs and you are back at full mana, and again have room to cast 2 arcane blasts at full mana, from here you barrage dump and repeat. I found this to be the best rotation.

This is more or less what the rotation in our guide tells you to do.

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This is more or less what the rotation in our guide tells you to do.

 

I think the guide is over all good, but i do think that the way it explains how to use arcane missiles is a little vague.

 

 

  1. Cast wow_icon_spell_nature_starfall.jpg Arcane Missiles, if you have 4 stacks of wow_icon_spell_arcane_arcane01.jpg Arcane Charge and 3 charges of Arcane Missiles.
  2. Cast wow_icon_spell_nature_starfall.jpg Arcane Missiles at 4 stacks of wow_icon_spell_arcane_arcane01.jpg Arcane Charge.

 

As explained in my original comment, using all 3 procs isn't nearly as good just using 2 since it greatly increases your time at 4 stacks of arcane charges. This is all from my personal testing and i saw quiet a difference when using this specific rotation. If you feel this guide is satisfactory then feel free to ignore me

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I think the guide is over all good, but i do think that the way it explains how to use arcane missiles is a little vague.

 

As explained in my original comment, using all 3 procs isn't nearly as good just using 2 since it greatly increases your time at 4 stacks of arcane charges. This is all from my personal testing and i saw quiet a difference when using this specific rotation. If you feel this guide is satisfactory then feel free to ignore me

That's because you think too much like a human and are extrapolating! tongue.png

Line 1. doesn't say "Cast Arcane Missiles 2 times" or "Cast Arcane Missiles 3 times". It says to cast Arcane Missiles only once, so you get rid of that 3rd charge and make room for another one. So what the guide advises you to do is to give "getting rid of your 3rd charge of Arcane Missiles" a high priority and give "getting rid of your other 2 charges of Arcane Missiles" a lower priority, lower than casting Arcane Blast when you're over 93% mana (to make the best of your 4 stacks of Arcane Charge, as you are suggesting).

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I half/disagree with the use of Nether tempest for all situations AOE, simply because with supernova I offer more raid assistance. I'll give you a couple examples where Supernova has been shining, and I do just as much DPS.

 

First, trash mobs where the adds are weaker and there is one add that requires a lot of DPS. The single target bonus of Supernova (+100% increased damage on the main target) allows me to focus DPS on the main target while doing considerable damage to the adds around it.

 

This also translates well into fights with adds that have casters. The effect of knocking opponents up in the air is also an interrupt. Real life example? On Garrosh, mind controls are interrupted.

 

The other shining example of Supernova is when you're in a high DPS group and you're blowing through everything quickly. You don't have time to sit and drop arcane blasts to build up charges (I explain why I don't use cone of cold below).

 

On a 45 second CD with 2 charges, you can use arcane explosion and drop Supernova in between pulls.

 

For everything else, I use Nether Tempest because of the damage increase of arcane charges (+50% per charge).

 

Bottom line is that I believe Supernova actually does more damage in situations where you can't get up charges. In cases where you can, I only use it when I have four charges (bad practice probably, but my focus is getting up charges on longer fights first - I also explain why below).

 

Also, I don't use my missiles unless I have 2-3 charges. Right now I have the 4-set bonus and by waiting until I have 2-3 procs, arcane charges are x4 100% of the time and it becomes a rotations of missiles and re-applying NT. I don't drop all 3 when I have it either, I'll use 2, apply NT and that is where I see the most procs. I've had as many as 10 missiles in a row and I barely use any mana. I stay near 100% the whole time. 

 

Also, I don't use alter time anymore. I use Ice Barrier for the absorption and not getting interrupts while dropping Arcane Blasts to get my stacks up (DPS increase). For speed I use the Rapid Displacement glyph so I have 2 charges of blink.

 

I don't use Evanesce either. Don't need it with Ice barrier and rapid displacement (I explain those choices below).

 

I don't use cone of cold... not when you have an increased focus on multistrike and arcane blast with either NT or Supernova. There wouldn't be a need for it at all.

 

Being an arcane mage I think, in WoD will be all about sustaining your arcane charges for as long as possible, especially with a focus on multistrike. It's AOE hell on trash, and single target beast on bosses.

 

Also... I use 5 arcane blasts not four. Arcane charges increase the damage of the next spell used. First cast has no charges, so it boils down like this, AB(1) = 0 charges, AB(2) = 1 charge, AB(3) = 2 charges, AB(4) = 3 charges, AB(5) = max damage with 4 charges. If you stop at 4 blasts, you never get a blast off with maximum power.

 

If you have experience with mana utility, the mana loss is negligible compared to the damage gained.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

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I half/disagree with the use of Nether tempest for all situations AOE, simply because with supernova I offer more raid assistance. I'll give you a couple examples where Supernova has been shining, and I do just as much DPS.

 

First, trash mobs where the adds are weaker and there is one add that requires a lot of DPS. The single target bonus of Supernova (+100% increased damage on the main target) allows me to focus DPS on the main target while doing considerable damage to the adds around it.

 

This also translates well into fights with adds that have casters. The effect of knocking opponents up in the air is also an interrupt. Real life example? On Garrosh, mind controls are interrupted.

 

The other shining example of Supernova is when you're in a high DPS group and you're blowing through everything quickly. You don't have time to sit and drop arcane blasts to build up charges (I explain why I don't use cone of cold below).

 

On a 45 second CD with 2 charges, you can use arcane explosion and drop Supernova in between pulls.

 

For everything else, I use Nether Tempest because of the damage increase of arcane charges (+50% per charge).

 

Bottom line is that I believe Supernova actually does more damage in situations where you can't get up charges. In cases where you can, I only use it when I have four charges (bad practice probably, but my focus is getting up charges on longer fights first - I also explain why below).

 

Also, I don't use my missiles unless I have 2-3 charges. Right now I have the 4-set bonus and by waiting until I have 2-3 procs, arcane charges are x4 100% of the time and it becomes a rotations of missiles and re-applying NT. I don't drop all 3 when I have it either, I'll use 2, apply NT and that is where I see the most procs. I've had as many as 10 missiles in a row and I barely use any mana. I stay near 100% the whole time. 

 

Also, I don't use alter time anymore. I use Ice Barrier for the absorption and not getting interrupts while dropping Arcane Blasts to get my stacks up (DPS increase). For speed I use the Rapid Displacement glyph so I have 2 charges of blink.

 

I don't use Evanesce either. Don't need it with Ice barrier and rapid displacement (I explain those choices below).

 

I don't use cone of cold... not when you have an increased focus on multistrike and arcane blast with either NT or Supernova. There wouldn't be a need for it at all.

 

Being an arcane mage I think, in WoD will be all about sustaining your arcane charges for as long as possible, especially with a focus on multistrike. It's AOE hell on trash, and single target beast on bosses.

 

Also... I use 5 arcane blasts not four. Arcane charges increase the damage of the next spell used. First cast has no charges, so it boils down like this, AB(1) = 0 charges, AB(2) = 1 charge, AB(3) = 2 charges, AB(4) = 3 charges, AB(5) = max damage with 4 charges. If you stop at 4 blasts, you never get a blast off with maximum power.

 

If you have experience with mana utility, the mana loss is negligible compared to the damage gained.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

I modified the explanations for Tier 5 talents, to make some room for Supernova in multiple-target situations.

Regarding your Arcane Charge suggestions, I don't think anything in the guide goes against what you said.

I highly disagree with your take on Alter Time though. Ice Barrier costs a global cooldown to cast, so that's a DPS loss, when Alter Time is not.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say regarding a "focus on multistrike".

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There are no situations when you do 5 Ablasts. You generally get AM in between so you can channel one AM and let mana get up. Sims show that the sweet spot is to start casting Arcane Blast when you are at 93% mana at the start of your cast. 
Not using CoC because of Multistrike??? And staying at 4 charges as long as possible? From my experience in WoD you rather want to cycle in between as fast as possible and get as many AM's out as possible at 4 charges.

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I modified the explanations for Tier 5 talents, to make some room for Supernova in multiple-target situations.

Regarding your Arcane Charge suggestions, I don't think anything in the guide goes against what you said.

I highly disagree with your take on Alter Time though. Ice Barrier costs a global cooldown to cast, so that's a DPS loss, when Alter Time is not.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say regarding a "focus on multistrike".

 

There are no situations when you do 5 Ablasts. You generally get AM in between so you can channel one AM and let mana get up. Sims show that the sweet spot is to start casting Arcane Blast when you are at 93% mana at the start of your cast. 

Not using CoC because of Multistrike??? And staying at 4 charges as long as possible? From my experience in WoD you rather want to cycle in between as fast as possible and get as many AM's out as possible at 4 charges.

 

 

re-reading my own post I need to clarify a couple things. First of all, keep in mind that a lot of stuff is broken right now.

 

1. Arcane Blasts x5 - For me (572iL with 4 piece tier), going 5 blasts increased my damage output. That 5th blast drops between 19k and 20k damage with 4 stacks of Arcane Charge. I've seen it go as high as 23k damage and it added between 2k-3k DPS output.

 

That may change after WoD drops but for right now doing 5 AB is better than the standard rotation. By the time I get through to my missiles, I'm back to back at full mana anyway. Regen is just ridiculous.

2. My choice of Ice Barrier over Alter Time - in fights where you take damage, push-back and interrupts are * also a DPS loss, and at a 1.5 minute cool down, I get way more utility from Ice Barrier (25 second cool-down), than Alter Time. Even more so in high movement fights.

 

Two reasons for that.

 

a. If you're in a fight in which you take damage sooner than every 1.5 minutes, which is basically every fight now, then Ice Block is definitely the way to go.

 

b. With the increased cast time of arcane blasts (even with my enchants, it is 1.81 seconds), push-backs, which can happen up to two times before I finish cast is longer than the 1 second it takes for a global cool-down use, and with four casts, it's a bigger DPS loss to not have Ice Barrier.

 

The only reason to even use Alter Time now, since they removed the mana and buff effects is health, and for that, I have Greater Invisibility with the same cool-down as Alter Time (1.5 minutes).

 

You may drop more DPS standing on a dummy or in simulation but they don't account for real situations where you take damage and suffer from push-back and interruptions.

 

With the changes in 6.0, I whole heartedly believe that Ice Barrier should be the default choice here.

 

3. Focus on multistrike - by that I mean enhancements, multistrike, leech, versatility, etc. For mages, it is multistrike. For me, multistrike is almost 7% and by making sure that I sustain ACx4 for as long as possible, I see my blasts and explosions hitting multiple times, in between my rotations to barrage, (as in the reason why I say that I think * that sustaining 4 charges for as long as possible will be important to dps).

 

At 572iL on a dummy I'll drop anywhere from 16k to 21k DPS sustained, and do the same in a raid, and that is in between the use of arcane power.

 

On the first point, I may * go back to 4 blasts, but for right now, it's a DPS increase.

 

I hope that better explains why I'm coming at this the way that I am. I spend a lot of time on dummies, but when you get into a raid, it doesn't always work out to perfection. Some things I find I'm getting more damage from that the guide may not agree with. I gotta go with what works.

Edited by Athalos

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So, based on your stat priority, wouldnt you want to gem intellect + Stat? or am i wrong here

No, because you get 10 of a secondary stat on a gem and only 5 of Intellect, so even though Intellect is better, point for point, than some secondary stats, it is not twice as good.

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Athalos, pushback does indeed offer a dps loss but
a) Casting Ice Barries is a GCD you aren't doing damage.

b)Ice Barrier breaks from all AoE not only spells that cause pushback damage. (and most do not)

 

There is absolutely no reason from a dps perspective to pick a GCD defensive over a non GCD defensive.

Considering the ABlast thing I'll have to do a bit more research. YOu might have a point.

 

Edit: Nope you have no point. If your mana regen is high enough that you have regenerated one Arcane Blasts worth of mana during the cast, then you could just as well got for a 6th, 7th, 8th cast.

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Athalos, pushback does indeed offer a dps loss but

a) Casting Ice Barries is a GCD you aren't doing damage.

b)Ice Barrier breaks from all AoE not only spells that cause pushback damage. (and most do not)

 

There is absolutely no reason from a dps perspective to pick a GCD defensive over a non GCD defensive.

Considering the ABlast thing I'll have to do a bit more research. YOu might have a point.

 

Edit: Nope you have no point. If your mana regen is high enough that you have regenerated one Arcane Blasts worth of mana during the cast, then you could just as well got for a 6th, 7th, 8th cast.

 

You don't do any damage in push-back either. Either way you're not doing damage. You're also* not doing damage when you're teleported back to where you are. AT works like blink that way. You can't cast mid blink.

 

(However, I can see someone using a macro [/cast Alter Time /cast Presence of Mind] on a full charge of missiles, then when you are teleported back you can open up with Arcane Barrage and an instant Arcane Blast) - there's an idea, but that's only good every minute and a half (every 3 minutes if you're using Glyph of Arcane Power).

 

Global CD aside, after using Ice Barrier all of your spells are available after 1 second, which means you have a 1 second stop in DPS. I get the reasoning and followed it too, but since they changed it, the question isn't about how long you're not going to be doing DPS, rather WHEN you're going to take damage.

 

You'd have to be able to predict when damage is coming for it to be effective, right? Otherwise you wasted it.

 

In a perfect case scenario where you don't take damage, why would you even need alter time or Ice Barrier?

 

To return to the position you started right? Provided of course you're not too far away like in a high movement fight, or the effect is negated.

 

So, if you know you're only going to take damage once every minute and a half, Alter Time will work great, but how many fights do you think are like that. One, maybe two? If you're not going to take damage at all you don't need either of them.

 

At best you can switch just for that fight. The rest of the time, if you're taking damage, you're losing DPS.

If you take damage once I can see the call for Alter Time because push-back is about the same - 1 second, but if you take damage more than once, what's doing to happen?

 

What if you take damage twice or more, that time accumulates and it will be much longer than 1 second.

 

Here's the best way I've been using Ice Barrier - when I get dotted on a fight and I'm taking damage every second.

 

My main spell is already longer than one second and I can't drop stacks because Greater Invisibility is on cool down - every cast is going to be pushed back, sometimes twice.

If I'm trying to get my Arcane Charges up then what? It's going to take even longer to get them up and I'm losing DPS the whole time that dot is on me. We're talking 4 or more seconds longer considering the cast is almost 2 seconds and you're taking damage per second.

 

That happens more often, a lot more often than only taking damage once every 1 and a half minutes.

 

And in those moments, I can get my stacks up and complete more rotations through the damage and I get more DPS.

 

That's just one real example.

 

Like I said, I understand the reasoning, but when it comes to fights where I take damage, whether it's dots, crap on the ground I'm moving out of, a tank turning to far and there's a cleave on group, or there are enemy abilities with multi-targets, or you're just too close, or a bad pull, or whatever else happens in almost every fight, Ice Barrier wins.

 

A 1 second cost of not doing damage is greater is any number of situations where you take damage sooner than 1.5 minutes.

I can't wait for a perfect storm to use Alter Time, not when I'm taking damage. When we had other shields (I really miss Mana Shield), Alter Time was great, but where we don't really have any other abilities that will stop damage?

I gotta go with what gives me more damage output.

As for 6, 7, 8, etc. casts of Arcane Blast... I rarely go below 93% and regen might be great, but that doesn't mean I get to waste mana either. a 5th blast won't compromise my mana pool. A 6th won't either depending on how much mana I have.

That I would say is something that would be specific to each mage.

It'll work for me, where I ride out arcane missiles and get 7-10 in a row, but maybe not work for you. The only way to really tell that is to test your limits in combat. Find that point where it's too much and hold back from going beyond it.

Damage and DPS is as much per-person (individual) as it is a template to follow.

For example, about 5 seconds before a hero, I'll use Evocation (for the 30% mana over time effect), followed by a supernova on the target for that 100% damage increase and I'll let Arcane Blast rip for 7 or 8 blasts and I won't drop below 93%.

But again, I can do that because I know where my limits are. If I were to go more than 8, I'd be losing a lot of DPS. 

With 7 or 8 I was able to drop around 34k DPS on Malkorok for a burst, and I've done higher from time to time (my best is 58k so far). Where we started Mythic I'm 575iL now, so again, it's that individual factor, but I know I wouldn't have been able to do it if it weren't for Ice Barrier protecting me from those interrupts.

We had someone not run out of the group on that fight, and the week before, a healer we pugged dispelled in the group. Alter Time wouldn't have stopped that.

Edited by Athalos

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Concerning your Ice Barrier reasoning, the idea of defensive CD's is that you won't have to use them. Healers should be able to cope with 18-20k damage every 25 seconds. The power of Alter Time is that you can use it to soak an ability that would bring you down to 10% and then get right back up.

Also what you have wrong is that dots don't trigger pushback, nor do channeled spells. The only thing that triggers spell pushback is auto attacks and general magic damage. Picking Ice Barrier will make you waste 3 GCD's every 25 second (and a GCD for Arcane at 100 will be more than 1 second due to haste levels) whereas alter time lets you soak a huge pool of damage for your group without letting it affect you. 
Also, you have to remember there are disc priests in the raid, so a portion of the cast mini-interrupts will be absorbed by their own absorbs. 
Imo Ice Barrier is more of a) Solo mobs out in the open talent, whereas Alter Time is a 1.5 minute Lay on Hands on yourself.

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If I kept Ice barrier up all the time as part of my rotation, you'd be correct. It would be a horrible DPS loss, but I don't.

 

What I'm advocating is the use of a flexible spell for when you take unpredictable damage sooner than a minute and a half, so your spell casting isn't interrupted.

 

During periods where you know you're going to take huge amounts of damage, Greater Invisibility will reduce damage by 90% both during, and for 3 seconds after you exit. And as it too has a cool down of 1.5 minutes, to me, it's a better choice than Alter Time anyway.

 

The only time I ever used Alter Time before the patch was as part of my burn phase. I'd wait until I had 2 stacks of missiles, drop mirror image, then blow Arcane Power and Alter Time and double up on my burn phase. Either that, or on Garrosh, use it before mind controls went out and it would drop it when I ported back.

 

But now, it's useless to me because it relies on too many IF situations to be viable.

 

You assume IF the healers can keep up with damage and IF you have the right combination of healers in the first place and IF their abilities aren't on cool down and IF you know when damage is coming, and IF it's not on cool down because you used it already and damage is happening faster than a minute and a half, and IF a lot of things.

 

Way too many assumptions for a minute and a half cool down, of which you already have one.

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Nah, I'm assuming healers can do their jobs. Ice barrier shields just a fickle of damage, so if they can't keep you up, even using it is not going to help the raid (a.k.a wipe). If you don't use it on cooldown, then you further devalue the value of the shield overal. Assume it would shield for 25k and you use it on CD you have 1k per second they have to heal you. However this is bound to break on the first type of AoE.  
Alter Time usage: 
On Tectus you can take a laser with AT, kite it to nigeria, reactivate Alter Time, be in position have fun dpsing.
On The Stone Hands guy, you can use it to reposition yourself behind a second crystal while being out of position.
Ice Barrier is just a spell that is simple to use, good at what it does, but in a raiding environment nowhere near as good as a 1.5 minute cooldown taht resets both Health and positioning. 
There is only 1 time when IB > AT which is when you have to take damage during an instance that exceeds your health pool. Then and only then would IB > AT IF you don't have a disc priest that can shield you from it.
Oh and IB>AT on any questing you do of course :P

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I've been in too many raids where there isn't a discipline priest and healers that aren't so hot, or tanks that require extra attention from healers. I'm not using IB for damage mitigation, but interruption protection during damage periods.

 

For big damage moments Greater Invisibility is what I prefer, and I rarely ever have to move further than a blink away. To me AT is just a bit redundant.

 

Then again, that's kinda why they made a lot of changes, so there's more than one way to skin a cat.

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Maybe this has been answered before, but a brief search turned up nothing for me, does taking mastery beyond 100% do anything for arcane mages or is it wasted stats at that point?

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      But yesterday in the Q&A, Ion said that the dev team doesn't care about the World First race, so if the Battle of Dazar'alor ends up with different final bosses for each faction, it doesn't matter, and it'll be up to players to decide what "World First" actually matters. (And yes, I'm also aware he said that they may end up making it so all the bosses will end up the same order regardless of faction, but they aren't sure yet)

      I don't even care about World First, but isn't that like, seriously contradictory? You either care or you don't care about World First, but apparently Ion both cares and doesn't care about it in a 12 hour time frame of one another???
      We love that the community rallies around World Firsts as this is a community created thing that became so popular, but when he says that we don't care about it he's just saying that we don't design with it in mind. It's a very niche thing as well as a niche type of player. We're talking about a less than .1% of players that even set foot inside the current raid tier at Mythic level that would even be competing for these World Firsts. 

      Like Ion said in the Q&A we design encounters in the way that we feel would be the best experience. We might be wrong sometimes but that's the goal and we try to hit that.
      World of Warcraft Forums
      Blizzard uses third-party platforms to reach out to as many players as possible. Not everybody uses the official forums, some players prefer to use Twitter, Reddit, and other platforms.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Live QnA on Reddit, the Live QnA on twitch. Most the questions being taken from Twitter.
      Can you please stop using these third party platforms for your community outreach? They are failing you. Why? Because they aren't actually the issues players seem to actually care about.
      There is no guarantee on these third parties that the people actually play the game. The forums they need to have an active sub. I have noticed everytime you have one of these QnAs or Live Streams they are never actually the issues people are talking about on the forums.
      And seeing that most people don't seem happy with your communication as of late why not cut out the middle man third party and go straight to your player base?
      There's literally a sticky at the top of the forums where we asked you to submit questions for the Q&A.
      https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769766993
      I saw that but why take any questions from Twitter then?
      Not everyone uses the forums. Forums are a very small percentage of any user base, even WoW. 

      There are some folks that use say Twitter for instance that refuse to come here, but still play the game. There are even folks submitting questions on Facebook that don't like either Twitter or the forums. Just like some players on the forums dislike Twitter, there are folks who have the opposite opinion.
      My job is partly in customer service, so similar to Ythisens.
      I'm not in Customer Service. 

      I think there are valid things to criticize us for and in fact I support and encourage that, however it's pretty silly when someone makes a post about something that is stickied on the same page they had to visit to make their post. The same sticky that is there before every single Q&A since we've had a Q&A.

      I wasn't being snarky at all. It was more of a "come on now -.-".
      The difference Yth is that the people who make the effort to come to the forums to submit questions/complaints/etc. are the ones who feel strongly enough to make that effort in the first place.
      Then that implies that you're saying the questions on say Twitter should be less valued when they're just as much of a player as you are. They could go through the same effort to write a tweet. I get the sentiment that on the forums you're able to articulate your statement/question better, however if you can't boil it down to a simpler question then your question is gonna have a hard time getting into the Q&A. Question cards can only be so long unfortunately >.>
      Back in the day we had wowgmfeedback-us@blizzard.com to provide feedback about GM/CMs or even being able to email to a supervisor directly to its personal blizzard e-mail.
      That still exists and is right here in the thread titled "Welcome - Please Read!":
      What if I would like to submit feedback on posts from Blizzard employees but not post on the forums as call outs are against the rules?
      If you have any sort of issue or feedback about a Blizzard employee's posts then you can submit that via email at wowcmfeedback@blizzard.com.
      Did the OP consider that maybe they got an even higher number of questions from Twitter or other social media platforms?
      We actually do get more questions on sites like Twitter than on the forums as in pure volume. I wouldn't say the quality is better, but there is quite a bit more there. 
      No one should have to put up with that under any circumstance, it is enough to drive a person to the brink of insanity.
      I cope by not letting the turtles make it to the water.
      There's a sticky that also has Twitter updates pasted in it as well lol.
      What's funny is that post exists because we're aware folks on the forums dislike Twitter. 

      For those that haven't seen it yet, I try to maintain a thread where I post updates on the forums that are said from Warcraftdevs on Twitter. You can check that out here:
      https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20767587764?page=1

      Also if you have suggestions on how to improve that please let me know. I try to grab them when I can but sometimes I do miss them (speaking of which I just noticed I need to repost some things there). I've been throwing up hotfixes as well in there since folks requested that.
      Ohh quit with the regurgitated "Not everyone uses the Forums" line.
      People play the game and "refuse" to use the official forums? Sounds like a personal problem "They" need to get over. Twitter is not even third party, they are their own party. You by far are the worst at understanding best business practices. You sound like a newly hired TSR.
      You may not like it but I'm being honest with you. Forums are not the most popular destination when it comes to where the game is discussed. I think forums are the best place given that a poster's ability to craft better posts is vastly superior here, but If your customers are largely in another place is it a good business practice to be where they are as well or ignore that they're in another place too? There is only one right answer to that question if you're looking at it from a business perspective.

      Why do you think we also read other fan sites and third party sites like Reddit, Twitter, and Discord? Players are there. It's a simple fact and reasoning.
      World of Warcraft Subscribers
      The final blue post deals with sub numbers. Players have been canceling their subs for various reasons since the dawn of WoW and Battle for Azeroth is nothing exceptional. A similar thing happened during Legion, the reason being Legendaries. The team is interally discussing player concerns and proposing ways of fixing them.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Is it just me or have there been far, far more threads claiming to not continue their sub/cancel completely compared to all throughout Legion? Like, it's getting to a point where I'm wondering if Blizzard is worried or not. I don't want to go through another WoD debacle but I'm just personally noticing the increase in people who seemingly are done with my favorite game of all time.

      This is troubling, no? Blizzard do you even care?
      ...Yeah, it was. Before this it was about flying and gated allied races.
      Then before that it was Legendaries in Legion, etc. The list goes on for each expansion. I remember seeing people on the forums claiming that the 1.6 patch was going to kill the game because it allowed players to queue for BGs at the Battlemasters in capital cities and thus they were unsubbing, this was 13 years ago.

      I don't want to diminish or invalidate anyone's criticism with this post but yes, GD has always been like this and always will.
      I'm actually kind of sad to see this reply as it just feels inline with everything going on lately. shrug of the shoulders and oh well, btw we are making azurite more complicated, have a nice day!!. in this answer all I see is more of the same our way or the highway attitude from blizz. its disappointing.
      ...Just gotta say, despite saying you don't want to diminish or invalidate criticism, you do just that.
      Sorry if that was the feeling at all as like I said I don't aim to do that by any means.

      Even though we all know how GD can get, we by no means use that to dismiss any present feelings or overall concerns. We recognize everyone is coming from a good place when they raise a concern and every forum post does have a point. Sometimes the point is a little silly or we disagree with it, but that doesn't make it any less valid from that perspective of that player (even if they use McNuggets to explain it). Internally though we share a lot of the concerns you guys have, and conversations happen daily around them as well. We discuss what actually causes this problem and how to solve it. That includes fixing something if we feel it does need to be fixed.
       
    • By Stan
      Varok Saurfang's story continues in Patch 8.1. Check out what awaits the High Overlord in Tides of Vengeance! This article contains spoilers.
      Foreword
      Blizzard released a cinematic titled "Old Soldier", where the High Overlord reacts to the Burning of Teldrassil. He's not content with Sylvanas' decisions and does not like where the Horde is heading.
      Saurfang becomes fed up with the events of the Battle for Lordaeron and is taken to the Stockades by Anduin. Later in the Stormwind Extraction Scenario, you find him locked up in a cell, but he does not want to return to Orgrimmar.
      If you missed our first installment of Saurfang's story in Battle for Azeroth, you can check it out here.
      Saurfang's Story in Patch 8.1
      Blizzard added a new NPC called Varok Saurfang in Tides of Vengeance and the Orc received a new skin as well. He's no longer referred to as "High Overlord" and does not wear his usual armor.

      Saurfang escaped the Stockades and Horde players are sent to investigate what happened to him. Sylvanas does not want him to fall into the hands of the Alliance and demands you to take him back to Orgrimmar. Our favorite Zappyboi makes an appearance at the end of the questline, joining him in battle.
      Varok Saurfang Questline in Patch 8.1
      The 8.1 questline starts with Dark Ranger Alina and "The Dark Lady Calls" quest aboard the Bahsee Wall and Sylvanas requests your audience in Orgrimmar.
      The Dark Lady Calls
      Champion, the Dark Lady has need of you. We cannot speak more of this here. Make haste to Orgrimmar at once. Best not to keep her waiting.
      An Abomination Guard is guarding the door in Grommash Hold to ensure that your meeting with Sylvanas stays private.
      The High Overlord
      I have asked you here to discuss a matter of great improtance to the Horde. Varok Saurfang is no longer present in Stormwind. Let us discuss this turn of events.
      Sylvanas wants you to locate Saurfang, because the Alliance would surely kill him on sight. Some members of the Horde question his loyalty and consider him a traitor for his willing surrender at the Battle for Lordaeron.
      A Way Out
      My spies report that our High Overlord did not leave the way he entered, not any other way we know of. No signs were seen at any of the known exits to the Stockades or sewers. He simply was in his cell one moment, and not the next. Begin your investigation around the city of Stormwind. There must be another way out that we do not know of. Dark Ranger Lyana will meet you there, her tracking skills are second to none. Do not fail me, my champion.
      Now, you must reach Elwynn Forest to continue the questline. The easiest way was to teleport to Dalaran, use the portal to Karazhan and fly there.
      On Track
      Keep your head down, we don't want to be seen out here. Our spies keep watching over Stormwind day and night, and saw no signs of Saurfang. Not did we notice any oddly-oversized carts or strange ships in the night, if that was what you were thinking. How then, did he make his escape? Let's look around.
      You're going to find a sewer exit outside the city.
      Clicking the Old Lock will make the following text appear:
      Now that you've found Saurfang's escape route, the search continues...
      You will be attacked by SI:7 Agents and the quest is complete when you defeat all three.
      You need to keep moving, because SI:7 Agents are probably looking for Saurfang as well.
      Eastern Escape
      It's not unusual to see SI:7 spies lurking around the city, but still, something about this doesn't feel right. We need to find where Saurfang's trail picks up. The last tracks were heading east, towards Redridge. At the entrance to Redridge is Three Corners, one of the more well-defended towers the Alliance has. I have an idea, meet me there.
      The search for Saurfang continues in Redridge Mountains.
      Corner Crossing
      If Saurfang was headed in this direction, it would have been difficult for him to avoid the Three Corners watchpost. We could simply walk in there and demand information, but I have a feeling that they would not part with it willingly. So we will take another approach. I have procured this potion from our alchemists. It will turn us into--ugh-- humans for a while. We can then question the guards, perhaps someone saw something.
      Use the Humanizing Potion to turn yourself into a Human for 10 minutes and ask guards for information. After you taken on the appearance of a Human, Lyana tells you:
      You're going to approach guards and tell them you've lost a puppy. Dark Ranger Lyana goes by the name "Marion Sutton" when transformed.
      The guards were super drunk last night and they do not recall anything. It must have been fairly easy for Saurfang to pass by the Three Corner watchpost unnoticed. Now you question Darcy Parker about what happened last night.
      The search continues in Lakeshire at Inkeeper Brianna. She informs you that guards are staying upstairs at the Lakeshire Inn. After searching the room for clues, you find an Official-Looking Note from Shaw:
      Signs of Saurfang
      With the guards drunk at their posts, Saurfang would have had little trouble passing Three Corners undetected. The path splits up ahead. The back roads of Redridge are poorly-patrolled and infested with gnolls and spiders. In other words, a perfect path for an orc trying to not to be noticed. His most likely path is Lakeridge Highway, we should continue our investigation there.
      You'll find ripped webbing, ichor, and plenty of killed spiders in Lakeridge Highway.
      Defeat the Injured Bristlequeen to complete the quest.
      Ever Eastward
      All signs point to our quarry heading farther east. To what end, Im an not sure, but I have my suspicions. I am going to scout the area from the air, let's meet up at Redridge Pass.
      Tracking Tipoff
      Look there, down the hill, one of the Alliance hunters that roams the area. No one knows these pathways like them. If our quarry passed through this area, they would certainly have seen the tracks. Their dogs may even have noticed. Here is another dose of the potion. Let us question this one while he is alone.
      It's time to drink  Humanizing Potion again and question Hunter McAlister who is later killed, because his dogs notice you're not actual humans.
      Killing Hunter McAlister and his dogs makes Zappyboi appear! Zekhan offers the next quest while Lyana informs you she must return to the Warchief.
      Zekhan tells you that Saurfang's hiding at a nearby farm.
      Grim Tidings
      Ey mon, dat dark ranger, she lied to ya'! Saurfang knew they'd be comin' for him. He sent me to watch the pass, see who his assassins were, try to warn him if I could. She's not reportin' back nothin', she's goin' to kill him. Probably got a whole group of deathguards just waiting for her to give the signal. We gotta stop dem! You with me?
      Dark Ranger Lyana lied to you and she wants to kill him. Better hurry and inform Saurfang who's located in the Swamp of Sorrows.
      A Warrior's Death
      She gonna try an' take him in, and then no one ever gonna see Varok Saurfang again. Dis was never a rescue mission, dis was about power, an' control, an' Sylvanas think she be holdin' all the cards. But she didn't count on us! Let's go.
      Turns out Sylvanas actually tricked you and wants Saurfang dead.
      Completing the quest rewards a fun cloak toy - Worn Cloak. A scripted event will begin as soon as you accept the quest and you must defend Saurfang.
      Dark Ranger Lyana and her crew die, but now you must come up with something to fool Sylvanas.
      Queen's Favor
      I have two things to ask of you, and I do not ask them lightly. First, I need you to retain the favor of the warchief. She will undoubtedly have questions, and seeds of distrust may begin to grow, but she cannot lose you as an ally, not now. She would not so willingly part with one of her greatest champions. In order to do so, it will have to look like you faced me in combat, and lost. I trust you can take a hit. Second, I ask you not to follow me further. I must make this journey alone.
      Talk to Saurfang and tell him to punch you. The screen turns black for a second and you will be afflicted with the "Convincing Blow" debuff for 10 minutes.
      Finally, go to Orgrimmar and talk to Sylvanas in Grommash Hold to complete the Queen's Favor quest that rewards Artifact Power.
      The story ends here. Sylvanas doesn't know you defeated the dark ranger and her forces along with Saurfang and Zekhan. Let's see what the future holds for Varok. Let us know what you think about his story so far and Sylvanas wanting him dead.
      Characters Involved in the Questline
      Dark Ranger Lyana
      Veteran Dark Ranger appointed by Sylvanas to help you track down Saurfang. In the beginning, it all looks like a rescue mission, but further down the questline you learn that she was deceiving you all along. She's later killed by the player, Saurfang, and Zekhan.
      Varok Saurfang
      Saurfang escaped the Stockades and you find him hiding at a farm in the swamps with simple armor and without the "High Overlord" title, indicating his discontent with Sylvanas' Horde. You confront Dark Ranger Lyana and her forces as you uncover her vile intentions and learn that the rescue mission was actually a lie and Sylvanas wants him dead. He doesn't want you or Zekhan to follow him, because he clearly states that he must travel the path alone. The character of Saurfang remains the embodiment of the Horde's long-lost honor.
      Zekhan
      Zappyboi makes an appearance during the questline and fights alongside Saurfang. Blizzard did a really great job at portraying him loyal to Varok at times of need as we saw in the Old Soldier cinematic.
      Lady Sylvanas Windrunner
      Another lie has been told by the Warchief. First, she makes you believe it's of utmost importance to track down Saurfang, who recently escaped the Stockades, so that the Alliance does not kill him. Later, she accuses Varok of treason against the Horde and she wants him dead. After you kill Lyana and her forces, you fool her into believing that Saurfang did all that. Blizzard confirmed in an interview that Sylvanas will not be Garrosh 2.0 in Battle for Azeroth.
      Gameplay Video
      Saurfang-Sylvanas relations hit an all-time low in Tides of Vegeance.
    • By Jovovich
      World of Warcraft - [Horde][US-Arthas]Unhuman - Francais - Uldir 3/8M  -  www.unhuman.ca
       
      Unhuman est à la recherche de nouveaux visages qui seraient intéressés à joindre ses rangs!
      Forum: http://forum.unhuman.ca/forum/7-recrutement/
       
      Raiding:
      - [Raid] Hex Uldir: 3/8M, 2soir, Mercredi et Jeudi 8pm à 11pm  (EST)
         Leader: Fangpriest / Assistant: Pandov et Starbender
      - [Raid] Unknown (Heroic only) Uldir: 4/8H, 1soir, Mercredi 7pm a 10pm (EST)
         Leader: Felfâllen / Assistant: Flos,  Falmortis 
      - [Raid] Casual Uldir: 0/8N, 1soir, En formation
         Leader: Legitdh 
      - Raid ouvert a tout les membres de la guilde (normal only) uldir: 8/8N, samedi matin 10am a 1pm (EST)
         Leader: Jovovich
       
      PvP:
      - [PvP] Unhuman RBG: 1200 rating, 1soir Dimanche des 9hpm (EST)
       
      Communauté:
      - Plus de  445 accounts
       
      Unhuman est plus qu'une guilde de raiding performante, c'est aussi la plus grosse communauté Francophone sur World of Warcraft US. Depuis sa création en 2006, Unhuman cherche à offrir à ses raiders un environnement de jeu qui favorise la progression et ce avec des joueurs d'excellent calibre. Nous sommes constamment à la recherche de nouveaux joueurs que ce soit PVE ou PVP, mais aussi des masters du Pet Battles, des champions de l'Archéologie ou peu importe ce qui vous branche ingame. Vous êtes donc assuré de trouver ce que vous cherchez chez nous peu importe votre style de jeu.
       
      Pour toutes questions...
       
      - http://unhuman.ca/
       
      - Jovovich-Arthas, Guild Master
      - Falmortis-Arthas, Officier
    • By Jovovich
      World of Warcraft - [Horde][US-Arthas]Unhuman - French - Uldir: 3/8M - www.unhuman.ca
       
      Unhuman is RECRUITING!
      Forum: http://forum.unhuman.ca/forum/7-recrutement/
       
      Raiding:
      - [Raid] Hex Uldir: 3/8M, 2day, Wednesday and Thursday 8pm to 11pm  (EAST)
         Leader: Fangpriest / Assistant: Pandov et Starbender
      - [Raid] Unknown (Heroic only) Uldir: 4/8H, 1day, Wednesday 7pm to 10pm (EAST)
         Leader: Felfâllen / Assistant: Flos , Florih et Falmortis 
      - [Raid] Casual Uldir: 0/8N, 1day, in formation
         Leader: Legitdh 
      - 1 more raid in formation...
       
      PvP:
      - [PvP] Unhuman RBG: 1200 rating, 1day Sunday starting at 9hpm (EAST)
       
      Community:
      - More than 445 account
       
      Unhuman is a performing raiding guild with multiple raid groups, it's one of the biggest, for not saying the biggest one, french community on World of Warcraft US. Unhuman has been created in December 2006 and will continue to live for a long time, Unhuman is trying to give to our raiders everything they need to be focus only on good progression!. Unhuman is always looking for new players of all kind, PvE or PvP, even with Battle pets or Archeologists or anything else you can do in the game....You will be sure to find your way with Unhuman!
       
      For any question...
      - http://unhuman.ca/
      - Jovovich-Arthas, Guild Master
      - Falmortis-Arthas, Officier