midgettoes

Highest DPS Spec - single target

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Hey guys,

So I have been lurking this forum along with EJs and a few others looking for some answers since MoP launched. I have got reasonable gear so far from heroics (ilvl near 464 now) and am looking to start some raids.

I have played and loved fire for a very long time as a spec, but (to my dismay) it appears fire is falling behind a little in MoP. So, I did what any aspiring raider would do, I hit the target dummies for a few hours with different specs/talents/rotations etc etc to find what works.

According to noxxion, and simcraft, arcane should be beating out fire in single target patchwerk-esque DPS fights. I couldn't make this happen. No matter how hard I tried. I am getting (over a 3 minute test burn) fire consistently putting out ~7.9-8 million damage, and arcane only ~7.1-7.5 million (much higher variance too)

Please let me know your rotations and if I am missing something.

EDIT: In both rotations I opened with trinket proc + beserking but NOT Time Warp. Did not use Alter Time at any point to prolong buffs either. With Arcane I obviously opened Arcane Power at the same time as my other CDs.

Fire priority:

1) Combustion w/good ignite + pyro dots

2) Evocation (if Invoker's Energy not present)

3) Frost bomb

4) Inferno blast if Hot Streak

5) Pyroblast!

6) Fireball

Arcane:

Burn phase (first 20 seconds w/arcane power):

1) AM on proc

2) AB

Regeneration phase (up to ~90% mana again):

1) Frost Bomb on CD

2) AM if proc

3) ABarr if >= 1 charge

4) ABlast if 0 charge no cooldowns/procs

Standard phase (the rest of the test run):

1) Frost bomb on CD

2) AM if 2 procs

3) ABlast to 4 charges

4) Use AM Procs

5) ABarr

What am I missing? Any assistance would be great! I did reforge my gear crit-> mastery for the arcane runs (but did not change gems/enchants/etc).

EDIT2: I got so stumped I didn't even bother with trying out frost yet... Heh.

Edited by Damien

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I recently tested my DPS as both Frost and Arcane and found Frost to be superior. I didn't try Fire because I already use that spec for PvP...

Anyway, IIRC, there is no longer a "burn phase" for Arcane. You pretty much want to maintain as close to 100% mana as possible. Period. This means for the most part, you'll always be using the "standard" rotation you listed, even during Arcane Power. If your mana allows, you should also try building up 1 or 2 more charges before consuming your remaining AM procs and clearing the stacks with ABarr. Be sure to have Mage Armor up at all times.

Which lvl 90 talent are you using as Arcane? Rune of Power is usually the best option. You may even be able to get away with using Incanter's Ward. Invocation is not nearly as viable simply due to the 50% mana regen.

Edited by Azden

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I recently tested my DPS as both Frost and Arcane and found Frost to be superior. I didn't try Fire because I already use that spec for PvP...

Anyway, IIRC, there is no longer a "burn phase" for Arcane. You pretty much want to maintain as close to 100% mana as possible. Period. This means for the most part, you'll always be using the "standard" rotation you listed, even during Arcane Power. If your mana allows, you should also try building up 1 or 2 more charges before consuming your remaining AM procs and clearing the stacks with ABarr. Be sure to have Mage Armor up at all times.

Which lvl 90 talent are you using as Arcane? Rune of Power is usually the best option. You may even be able to get away with using Incanter's Ward. Invocation is not nearly as viable simply due to the 50% mana regen.

Basically, yeah.

However, when using AP you should be using a modified rotation that favors spells that build arcane charges [ignore mage bombs], and keeps your mana relatively high.

edit: wish I could post something more solid, but I need to practice up on my arcane. I just have a general idea of what one should be doing [if they were arcane], but have yet to practice with it enough to contribute how the rotation might vary at all with invoc/RoP.

~Sage

Edited by Sagetastic

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I recently tested my DPS as both Frost and Arcane and found Frost to be superior. I didn't try Fire because I already use that spec for PvP...

Anyway, IIRC, there is no longer a "burn phase" for Arcane. You pretty much want to maintain as close to 100% mana as possible. Period. This means for the most part, you'll always be using the "standard" rotation you listed, even during Arcane Power. If your mana allows, you should also try building up 1 or 2 more charges before consuming your remaining AM procs and clearing the stacks with ABarr. Be sure to have Mage Armor up at all times.

Which lvl 90 talent are you using as Arcane? Rune of Power is usually the best option. You may even be able to get away with using Incanter's Ward. Invocation is not nearly as viable simply due to the 50% mana regen.

I was using Rune of Power.

After raids have been released, and Worldoflogs has got a few weeks of entries it certainly looks like fire is the go to spec for PvE currently, regardless of simcraft and other results. This is great for me, as I love fire! I was just originally wondering if I was missing something, but evidently the simulations and such need to be modified and/or run on a lower gear set (I think they are run using full 496 gear on simcraft.org?).

Thanks for the replies though :)

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I was using Rune of Power.

After raids have been released, and Worldoflogs has got a few weeks of entries it certainly looks like fire is the go to spec for PvE currently, regardless of simcraft and other results. This is great for me, as I love fire! I was just originally wondering if I was missing something, but evidently the simulations and such need to be modified and/or run on a lower gear set (I think they are run using full 496 gear on simcraft.org?).

Thanks for the replies though Posted Image

I've been raiding strictly as frost, just as I did in cata (until t13 :'< ..) - so far I have been doing fairly well. Keeping up with warlocks, rogues, feral&moonkin druids, along with Spriests.

My DPS does seem to drop in some cases, but it's really just from the new evocation altering talents. They really threw me off this xpack with them. I've been playing too long to have them do something like that with one of my core spells.

I can adapt to any mechanic they throw at me on the fly, but mess with my evocate and I feel hamstrung by it.

Practice, practice, practice.

Number-wise, when my dps dips low from my carelessness it only drops to about 45k, on average it stays at 55k+

Right now I am practicing my fire so I can try it in next weed's raids. I am pretty impressed with what I am seeing on the dumdumdummy so far.

That being, I expected fire to do poorly right now for lack of crit. A momentarily lapse of reason, really, as I forgot to take into account the 1.5* modifier. My crit as fire is fine. My 6% haste, on the other hand, could use a little help.

I love this part of an xpack. Always feels like rediscovering my favorite class all over again.

~Sage

Edited by Sagetastic

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Which lvl 90 talent are you using as Arcane? Rune of Power is usually the best option. You may even be able to get away with using Incanter's Ward. Invocation is not nearly as viable simply due to the 50% mana regen.

I gave Invocation a go in a few dungeons and found it to be a hassle. I had to let Evocation to run full course to get the buff, which only seemed to make up for the dps lost by using Evocation. This is on a fire mage and I may try Rune of Power to see how that goes.

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I've been raiding strictly as frost, just as I did in cata (until t13 :'< ..) - so far I have been doing fairly well. Keeping up with warlocks, rogues, feral&moonkin druids, along with Spriests.

My DPS does seem to drop in some cases, but it's really just from the new evocation altering talents. They really threw me off this xpack with them. I've been playing too long to have them do something like that with one of my core spells.

I can adapt to any mechanic they throw at me on the fly, but mess with my evocate and I feel hamstrung by it.

Practice, practice, practice.

Number-wise, when my dps dips low from my carelessness it only drops to about 45k, on average it stays at 55k+

Right now I am practicing my fire so I can try it in next weed's raids. I am pretty impressed with what I am seeing on the dumdumdummy so far.

That being, I expected fire to do poorly right now for lack of crit. A momentarily lapse of reason, really, as I forgot to take into account the 1.5* modifier. My crit as fire is fine. My 6% haste, on the other hand, could use a little help.

I love this part of an xpack. Always feels like rediscovering my favorite class all over again.

~Sage

If you have a question about fire rotation/spell usage/etc feel free to ask. I have topped every raid/challenge mode I have run so far on my mage in terms of DPS (only 2 bosses down in 10 man MV, cleared LFR, and 5/9 silver in challenge modes). I'll help with my limited knowledge.

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If you have a question about fire rotation/spell usage/etc feel free to ask. I have topped every raid/challenge mode I have run so far on my mage in terms of DPS (only 2 bosses down in 10 man MV, cleared LFR, and 5/9 silver in challenge modes). I'll help with my limited knowledge.

I appreciate it, but the only rotation I don't quite understand right now is arcane and I'd prefer to practice it and make sure I suck before asking for help with it :P

Right now, my fire is doing great, gonna use it over my frost in next week's raids.

Also, I can not seem to be able to talk my guild into running challenge modes, it is driving me crazy.

~Sage

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I gave Invocation a go in a few dungeons and found it to be a hassle. I had to let Evocation to run full course to get the buff, which only seemed to make up for the dps lost by using Evocation. This is on a fire mage and I may try Rune of Power to see how that goes.

I, too, use Invocation and think it's rather tedious. Although I must say, as a Frost mage who stacks haste (including the Frost Armor buff), the channel duration is improving. I don't have the most impressive gear yet, and my evo time is down to about 4.8 seconds. It's not so much of a problem before a pull, but having to refresh it during an encounter still seems to take forever. I've read that the 25% increase more than makes up for the DPS loss, though. Plus, with the glyph, it's rather convenient to use as a decent heal if you can't get topped off for some reason.

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I, too, use Invocation and think it's rather tedious. Although I must say, as a Frost mage who stacks haste (including the Frost Armor buff), the channel duration is improving. I don't have the most impressive gear yet, and my evo time is down to about 4.8 seconds. It's not so much of a problem before a pull, but having to refresh it during an encounter still seems to take forever. I've read that the 25% increase more than makes up for the DPS loss, though. Plus, with the glyph, it's rather convenient to use as a decent heal if you can't get topped off for some reason.

I much prefer Rune over Invocation since casting evocate every 45 seconds is very flow breaking during an encounter for me.

Using Invocation, I feel like I'm playing my spec around one defining talent's expiring buff.

With rune, the flow of the fight has yet to feel broken for me and I find it easy to preemptively place a new rune to keep its buff up as much as humanly possible during an encounter.

If there are solid numbers showing invocation causing a landslide more dps than rune, then I might compromise for progression's sake.

~Sage

Edited by Sagetastic

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I, too, use Invocation and think it's rather tedious. Although I must say, as a Frost mage who stacks haste (including the Frost Armor buff), the channel duration is improving. I don't have the most impressive gear yet, and my evo time is down to about 4.8 seconds. It's not so much of a problem before a pull, but having to refresh it during an encounter still seems to take forever. I've read that the 25% increase more than makes up for the DPS loss, though. Plus, with the glyph, it's rather convenient to use as a decent heal if you can't get topped off for some reason.

I think Damien should give you an award for your excellent use of grammar. :-)

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