Archimage

[Frost] Frost Bomb vs Ice Nova

Sign in to follow this  

20 posts in this topic

So I've been struggling with the spell_mage_frostbomb.jpgFrost Bomb vs spell_mage_icenova.jpgIce Nova, and from what I've seen - many others have also asked themselves which one is better.

 

So here is my opinion:

 

Quick fights: Ice Nova wins. (PvP and Leveling)

Longer fights: Frost Bomb wins. (Dungeons and Raids)

 

Here are some calculations: (SP = Spell Power)

Frost Bomb deals 120% SP to the primary target, and 75% to the rest.

Ice Nova deals 400% SP to the primary target, and 200% to the rest.

 

Based on this, you will need to generate 3~4 ability_mage_wintersgrasp.jpgFingers of Frost every 25 seconds (Ice Nova's recharge time) for Frost Bomb to be better than Ice Nova.

 

 

[Commence constructive discussion]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am actually writing an extended post about this.
one of the great powers of ice Nova is it interrupts casts and channels. For big trashpacks I take Ice Nova for the Interrupt rotation, but for bosses I do Fbomb.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its also gear dependant imo, you need a lot of multistrike to really make the ice bomb work. Like right now in my 622 gear I sometimes am only able to get ice lances from the elemental, so for me the nova which is independant from procs is by far better

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am actually writing an extended post about this.

one of the great powers of ice Nova is it interrupts casts and channels. For big trashpacks I take Ice Nova for the Interrupt rotation, but for bosses I do Fbomb.

 

Also when clearing dungeon trash you likely aren't 100% chain pulling, giving Ice Nova some time to regain charges and effectively shortening its cooldown. This reason alone in my opinion pushes it ahead of Frost Bomb for heroics (and maybe cm's depending on how fast you're trying to go).

 

For longer boss fights i think it'll be something like "if many adds, IN, otherwise FB".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually FB scales better with more adds!

Check Frost's comparison http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=749

The only real benefit to Icy Nova is that you can use it to interrupt all the adds from casting.

For bosses FB > all

Your article disagrees with you.

 

For a singular target Ice Nova, Mirror Image, and Prismatic are better dps and Ice Nova, Run of Power, and Prismatic are both better than Frost Bomb, Mirror Image, and Prismatic.

 

Any boss or pull with more than 1 mob will benefit from Frost Bomb. And boss or pull with only 1  mob will benefit from Ice Nova. Per your article. (please note we are talking about a 600 dps difference. Which means absolutely nothing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The article doesn't really disagree with me.
The dps gain on single target by Ice Nova is 100/20084 = 0.4% dps gain.

If you compare the relative rankings you will see that in general Frost Bomb takes off with more adds, but most bosses also do have adds.

Also as I said, the reason that IN is better than Frost Bomb (at least for challenge modes) is because of the interrupt that is tied to it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

imho FB is now very depends on gear (and its not so good)

for me, i had fights with fof procs only with elem or frozen orb

i think (i havent compared) in can provide u more foreseeble damage, than fb

after 1.5 week farming heroics and challenges -  my choice is in, because only 1 dungeon i noticed great amount of fof procs and my fb were top 3 ability over clearing time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually FB scales better with more adds!

Check Frost's comparison http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=749

The only real benefit to Icy Nova is that you can use it to interrupt all the adds from casting.

For bosses FB > all

 

I disagree, strongly, about FB > IN for bosses.

 

In full raid gear, yea..maybe, but for heroics/CM geared people? Naah...

 

e75a734226c2cb2d72331077c7cbb6fc.png

 

Fbomb doesnt start being better single target DPS than ice nova until like 660+ ilvl.

 

Also k,eep in mind, for dungeons, Ice Nova benefits a LOT from shatter, since you can pet freeze + ice nova for 70%+ crit chance on ice nova on all mobs at once. Also, fbomb sucks on adds that die fast, whereas IN is amazing.

 

Fbomb only beats IN if you're going for world rankings and are pulling 5 packs at once and you can keep fbomb up on one target for prolonged periods of time a nd spamming a lot of ice lances on it for prolonged periods of time.

Edited by Dutchmagoz
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree, strongly, about FB > IN for bosses.

 

In full raid gear, yea..maybe, but for heroics/CM geared people? Naah...

 

e75a734226c2cb2d72331077c7cbb6fc.png

 

Fbomb doesnt start being better single target DPS than ice nova until like 660+ ilvl.

 

Also k,eep in mind, for dungeons, Ice Nova benefits a LOT from shatter, since you can pet freeze + ice nova for 70%+ crit chance on ice nova on all mobs at once. Also, fbomb sucks on adds that die fast, whereas IN is amazing.

 

Fbomb only beats IN if you're going for world rankings and are pulling 5 packs at once and you can keep fbomb up on one target for prolonged periods of time a nd spamming a lot of ice lances on it for prolonged periods of time.

 

 

Did your test include Prismatic Crystal? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The article doesn't really disagree with me.

The dps gain on single target by Ice Nova is 100/20084 = 0.4% dps gain.

If you compare the relative rankings you will see that in general Frost Bomb takes off with more adds, but most bosses also do have adds.

Also as I said, the reason that IN is better than Frost Bomb (at least for challenge modes) is because of the interrupt that is tied to it. 

Aside from raw damage numbers I feel Ice Nova's better for another reason.  It's upfront, instant damage.  With Frost Bomb you have a cast to worry about that coincides with maximizing uptime.  You also need the target to live the full duration and in a lot of add fights those targets may not live long enough to make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb.

 

2 charges if Ice Nova, instant cast + no dot simply lends itself better to more practical fights outside of Patchwerk style bosses.

Edited by synkronized

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aside from raw damage numbers I feel Ice Nova's better for another reason.  It's upfront, instant damage.  With Frost Bomb you have a cast to worry about that coincides with maximizing uptime.  You also need the target to live the full duration and in a lot of add fights those targets may not live long enough to make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb.

 

2 charges if Ice Nova, instant cast + no dot simply lends itself better to more practical fights outside of Patchwerk style bosses.

I'm not sure what you mean by "maximizing uptime" and "make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb" ^^ If you used FoF Ice Lances on a mob with Frost Bomb up, then Frost bomb was effective, no matter how many adds were present.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frostbomb deserves its cast if more or equal than 2x FoF IL hit it on single target

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what you mean by "maximizing uptime" and "make the most out of each cast of Frost Bomb" ^^ If you used FoF Ice Lances on a mob with Frost Bomb up, then Frost bomb was effective, no matter how many adds were present.

My bad I was going off of old assumptions.  I just noticed 6.0's Frost Bomb has no dot component to it.  I knew about the Ice Lance interaction but assumed that worked alongside Dot damage.

Edited by synkronized

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ice Nova is a bit confusing for me, how is the best way to use it for a single boss fight?

 

Do you burn all 3 charges at once, or two at a time etc?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ice Nova is a bit confusing for me, how is the best way to use it for a single boss fight?

 

Do you burn all 3 charges at once, or two at a time etc?

First of all, there are 2 charges at once.

 

And the answer is: it depends... :) Try giving advices in an interactive way! Can you guess these factors? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know why i said 3 charges, i meant 2.

So do I burn both charges ASAP and use 1 charge off cooldown? or do i save up both charges, i know this may be somewhat situational but lets take the Butcher fight for example.

Try giving advices in an interactive way! Can you guess these factors? biggrin.png

this makes no sense btw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know why i said 3 charges, i meant 2.

So do I burn both charges ASAP and use 1 charge off cooldown? or do i save up both charges, i know this may be somewhat situational but lets take the Butcher fight for example.

this makes no sense btw

Oh come on, don't be too harsh. I'm a Hungarian. Hungarians can't speak English.... biggrin.png

 

What you have to understand is: As long as you used up at least one charge, there is no wasted Ice Nova.

The question is: Do you suspect, there will be adds soon, which can be hit by Ice Nova potentially?

Do you need high burst damage soon?

Do you have anything better to cast? (PC, FO etc.)

 

If either answers to these questions is yes, then one. Or none, if it's gonna happen in like 5 seconds.

Otherwise, just use both whenever you have nothing better to cast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would seem all the cool kids are running with Ice Nova, all the top logs and the the streams I have seen from Midwinter and Method have the mages using Ice Nova.

 

The one thing that confuses me is "A primary enemy target will take 100% increase damage" does that mean If i cast frost bolt on the boss the frost bolt will do 100% more damage if they are effected by ice nova? or is it the actual damage from Ice Nova that the damage is increased by 100%?

 

and lets take butcher for example, does this mean just burn your 2 x charges and burn a charge off every cooldown?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would seem all the cool kids are running with Ice Nova, all the top logs and the the streams I have seen from Midwinter and Method have the mages using Ice Nova.

 

The one thing that confuses me is "A primary enemy target will take 100% increase damage" does that mean If i cast frost bolt on the boss the frost bolt will do 100% more damage if they are effected by ice nova? or is it the actual damage from Ice Nova that the damage is increased by 100%?

 

and lets take butcher for example, does this mean just burn your 2 x charges and burn a charge off every cooldown?

 

 

 

It's just Ice Nova's damage that's doubled on the Target.

 

On single target it's pretty much just burn, though it does have a animation interrupt effect you can use, also being instant it can be nice to have something to mash on the move that doesn't require a proc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Violentravi
      Hello,
      The Sworn is recruiting DPS. We are a Horde guild on Arthas and our current progression is 5/11 Mythic Antorus. We only raid two nights a week, Tuesday and Wednesday from 9:15 PM until 12:15 AM Eastern. Currently, our main goal is to push Mythic progression & finish out the raid before next patch, please keep this in mind if you wish to join us, because we will not be doing Heroic or anything like that.
      From you, we would expect 100% attendance during your trial period; after that if you cannot make a raid or will be late it is mandatory to keep the raid leader updated. In order to continue making good progression while raiding only two nights a week, we expect that you know your class inside-out and will research any bosses you are unfamiliar with prior to raids.
      As far as classes are concerned, at this time, we do not have ANY rogues, DPS warriors, havoc DH, or wind walkers.
      If you are interested, add me to battle tag and we will talk (violentravi#1826), I will accept mostly anyone who wants to be a bench or casual, but for raiding purposes, you must be able to provide logs.
      Thank you for your consideration
      Xoxo
      Violentnacho
    • By Fettucini
      Hello,
      I seem to do very little damage on my opener and then following it up later.
      Here are my logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9gqQaXwfmFGzH6Dy#fight=25&type=summary
      My armory https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/ravencrest/fettucini 
      I'm curious whether this is just bad playing or a lack of gear.
    • By xkaoticx
      Like the title says, I am just seeking some extra help on how I can improve my performance. I dont feel like my dps is lacking but think it could be better.
      Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/shadowmoon/frostybones
      (I know i need a couple enchants)
      Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TXBQkCpyjF9acrGV#fight=17
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TXBQkCpyjF9acrGV#fight=4
      Side note: When I have Icy Veins + BL up I catch myself overriding FOF or BF procs because its not registering my keypresses fast enough. Anyone else run into this issue?
    • By Casdon
      [US] Stormreaver — Skunkworks
      Tuesdays & Thursdays: 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. (pst) || 9-1 (cst) || 10-2 (est)
       
      Progression
      8/11M Antorus
      9/9M ToS
      10/10M Nighthold
      3/3M Trial of Valor
      7/7M Emerald Nightmare
       
      Website
      skunkworksguild.com
       
      About Us
      Skunkworks is a guild for players who can not or do not want to commit to the time-intensive raid schedules of traditional "hardcore" guilds.
      However, we still maintain a high caliber player environment and make an efficient use of our raiding time.
      We raid Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:00 - 11:00 PST, just 8 hours a week and never more.
       
      We are very protective of our guild environment and selective in recruitment. We are looking for solid players mechanically as well as intellectually.
      We all get paid to deal with idiots, why should we pay to spend our leisure time with them as well?
       
      Skunkworks has been around for multiple expansions and has historically always been at the top of the 2-night raiding guild scene.
       
      Past Raiding Achievements
       
      #US 199 Mythic KJ #US 186 Mythic Archimonde #131 US Heroic Garrosh #68 US Heroic Ra-den #77 US Heroic Lei Shen #86 US Heroic Sha of Fear #106 US Heroic Madness of Deathwing #99 US Heroic Ragnaros #147 US Sinestra #91 US Heroic The Twilight Destroyer (Halion) #71 US Heroic Fall of the Lich King #247 US Tribute to Insanity #160 US Alone in the Darkness Current Guild Needs
      Amazing Range DPS ---Exceptional Candidates always considered regardless of recruiting needs.
       
      How to Apply
      Apply with Google Forms
      https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-LW1-7rRK28Z3Nswg4xD3-jjQWrIsCh77rYOdxKwY0oPPQ/viewform.
      All applications are kept private.
      Please include at least the following.
          Prominent links to relevant armory pages ]A guild history with reasons for departure
          The reason(s) you have chosen to apply to this guild
          Warcraft Logs
          UI screenshots or fraps/Stream footage
       
      Contact Information
      Shadaka (GM)
      Real ID:Shadak#1881
       
      Aerivore (Recruitment Officers)
      Real ID:  Aerivore#1581
       
      Sovm
      Real ID: Sov#1192