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Sub rogue help

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Hey im relatively new to rogues so here i am. Im here seeking help because im having trouble playing a sub rogue. I read guides from Icy Veins and i still seem to be having some trouble.


I am currently playing assassination and yes its incredibly simple smile.png However, i seem to be performing a lot less in sub.


E.G (just an example) say if i was doing a burst of 30k on single target dummy in assassination i'd be doing like 20k in SUB

(I used Shadow reflection for both spec)

I know sub rotation on single target things such as S&D up, rupture/hemo, vanish ambush for weakness debuff ect~~~


So my ultimate questions are, is sub just better in longer/drawn out fights? Is assassination just better at bursts?
Which is better AOE? i seem to be lacking DPS in terms of AOE

So would you recommend Assassination in dungeons (if it has bigger burst?) and Sub in raids?

Thank you so much for looking at my post

Edited by Highbie

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The biggest thing I can suggest without Logs to look at is to ensure you have proper use of your Shadow Dance. As I type this, I can see that it isn't mentioned anywhere in the Sub Guide, so I will make a separate post for it and hopefully help a lot of newer Sub Rogues.


A few seconds before you Dance (so when you have under ~10 seconds remaining on the cooldown), you should check a few things:


1) Energy. Entering Dance with low energy is almost useless, so you should try and pool energy and enter Dance with as much of it as you can. This is where Glyph of Energy really comes into play, as having an extra bit of cap space is very nice.


2) Shadow Reflection's cooldown. Assuming that you're running with SR as your level 100 talent, you should check to see if you will have them both up for this Dance (every second Dance gets a SR)


3) DoT timers. Rupture and Hemo will need to be refreshed before or during your Dance, so that you don't waste Evis casts. Exceptions to this one are listed below:

  • If SR will come off cooldown with this Dance, do not refresh Rupture until after you cast SR. This way you'll get a second Rupture from your clone. which is great. Recast Hemo to keep the 20% damage boost from SV up if it will fall off
  • If the boss is close to dying (next 10-15s)


4) Combo Points & Premeditation Cooldown. Because you should have a separate button for Prep (for pre-fight) as well as macroing it to your openers for easy use during combat, you should keep an eye on how many cp you have compared to how many you will generate off the bat. For example, if you will start Dance with 4 cp already, you'll get 2 from Ambush + 1 from HaT + 2 from Premed totalling 5 and bringing you to 9. This is pretty good cause you'll get 2 finishers off relatively quickly, but could also be bad if you end up energy capping in that time due to the refunds. Using Dance at more than 4 cp without Premed isn't as big a deal, it's just something you need to take into account and be aware of when preparing to Dance


Note that all of the above tips apply to Vanish / Subtetrfuge as well. The more Casts that you can get in, particularly of Eviscerate and not Rupture, during your Find Weakness uptime the better


Also, for glyphs and talents. Hemo Veins is essential 100% of the time; between that and Energy, you still have a slot for a defensive Glyph (I recommend Cloak of Shadows, but Feint, Sprint, or something else is potentially useful).


The only real discussion for Talent choice is Subterfuge and Shadow Focus. On almost every raid encounter you will want SF, but for heroics you can run with Subterfuge if you want. I don't recommend it as it has a (much) higher skill requirement for not much of a reward, plus it will feel very different to play SF during boss fights.

Edited by Carrn
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