brosephmg

What's the best Horde race for raiding as Fire?

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Title. I'm about to server/faction transfer (tomorrow, actually) - does anyone know what the best race is for raiding as fire? It must be between Pandaren, Orc, and Troll - I'm just not sure which. Has anyone got the scoop?

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Orc - 2257 Spell power for 15 sec, on a 2 min CD

Troll - 20% casting speed for 10 sec, on a 3 min CD

Panda - double food buff = 250-300 int across the fight.

I think Troll >>Orc and Troll > Panda

My reasoning is as follows: First, the Troll activate is better than the Orc one when stacked with other trinkets/procs/etc. It was this way in previous expansions, and I've seen nothing to suggest it has changed. If you want the numbers you can probably find them somewhere.

Troll > Panda was based on the fact a 20% haste boost in combination with your other trinkets/abilities/heroism/etc multiplies to make everything stronger. Obviously the int bonus is nice, but I don't think it will come out ahead over the duration of the fight, especially as you get more and more gear (a flat int bonus vs a % based activate).

Again, I don't have numbers, nor the time to do them by tomorrow, but you could probably find some napkin math and I believe it would agree with what I listed above.

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At the moment, the Pandaren double food buff seems slightly better than the Troll racial. But, as midgettoes pointed out, the Troll racial will get more and more valuable as you get more gear.

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Even though the benefits of the others are more valuable for dps performance, I would only consider swapping to troll from goblin as it stands.

I love rocket jump (and the 1% haste is convenient) for when I need to be somewhere and blink is on CD. I make good use of it, but troll's racial will be much better later on in raiding as gear progresses.

It all depends on what you prefer and if you are willing to swap now for what is best and later for what would be better. Too expensive for me.

~Sage

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I am currently running a simulation for you. I'll post back here in 15 minutes tops.

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Sim: Fire Mage T14N Avg Ilvl = 494.5

Iterations: 10,000

Orc = 101138 DPS

Troll = 101465 DPS

Pandaren = 101650 DPS

Sim: Fire Mage T14H Avg Ilvl = 507.9

Iterations: 10,000

Orc = 123499 DPS

Troll = 126034 DPS

Pandaren = 124065 DPS

It would appear that Pandarens are better at normal tier ilvl (496ish) but Troll pulls away as you scale in gear. Long-term suggestion: Troll

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Sim: Fire Mage T14N Avg Ilvl = 494.5

Iterations: 10,000

Orc = 101138 DPS

Troll = 101465 DPS

Pandaren = 101650 DPS

Sim: Fire Mage T14H Avg Ilvl = 507.9

Iterations: 10,000

Orc = 123499 DPS

Troll = 126034 DPS

Pandaren = 124065 DPS

It would appear that Pandarens are better at normal tier ilvl (496ish) but Troll pulls away as you scale in gear. Long-term suggestion: Troll

You did neglect one thing. The shorter you make your fight (down to 12 mins, and then down to 9 etc) will increase the Troll bonus. Obviously in a 3 minute (or multiple thereof) engagement you get the worst possible bonus from Beserking (since it should have just come off CD). On the other hand, if you had, say, a 13 minute fight, Beserking still has 2 minutes before the CD is up again, so your up-time accross the fight has increased.

EDIT: I'm not sure how long your Sim runs for. But this is something to consider. (I thought it was 15 minutes for some reason in my head).

Edited by midgettoes

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Simulation default time is 450 seconds (7 minutes, 30 seconds) so I think Berserking had a pretty good uptime. No fight lasts 15 minutes or more (let's try to forget the debacle that Madness of Deathwing was during progression)

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Simulation default time is 450 seconds (7 minutes, 30 seconds) so I think Berserking had a pretty good uptime. No fight lasts 15 minutes or more (let's try to forget the debacle that Madness of Deathwing was during progression)

Yeah I read your two posts together and when you said 'post back in 15 mins' for some reason that read to me as 'simulations are 15 mins'.

I think 7.5 minutes is a pretty good simulation time from my limited raiding experience thus far, thanks heaps for the numbers provided :)

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Yeah I read your two posts together and when you said 'post back in 15 mins' for some reason that read to me as 'simulations are 15 mins'.

I think 7.5 minutes is a pretty good simulation time from my limited raiding experience thus far, thanks heaps for the numbers provided Posted Image

I remember when boss kills were 20~ minutes long. I'd say 7.5 is paradise in comparison.

Also, what he said with the thanking and the stuff about numbers.

~Sage

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gonna go ahead and necro this thread....

currently goblin... looking to go troll for the beserking scaling with high ilvl gear (currently 524) + 5% to beasts (5/12 bosses in ToT are beast)

thoughts?

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I just changed From Goblin to Troll last week for the following reasons:

5% damage bonus on Beasts, which is a big bonus in ToT (Multiple bosses are beasts)

Berserking = 20% Haste for 10 secs. HOWEVER please consider you should never use berserking alone! It has to be used with Alter time. Both have a 3 min cooldown, which means your Berserking can be from 10-16 seconds, expect 13 seconds as you break your Alter time after 2 Pyros for Fire. As Frost you should run the entire 16 seconds.

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yeah, i went ahead and switched. only got some testing in cm's last night (frost)

ill be interested to see how much better it is for fire come raid night.

i miss being tiny :'(

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I just changed From Goblin to Troll last week for the following reasons:

5% damage bonus on Beasts, which is a big bonus in ToT (Multiple bosses are beasts)

Berserking = 20% Haste for 10 secs. HOWEVER please consider you should never use berserking alone! It has to be used with Alter time. Both have a 3 min cooldown, which means your Berserking can be from 10-16 seconds, expect 13 seconds as you break your Alter time after 2 Pyros for Fire. As Frost you should run the entire 16 seconds.

Berserking is useful for almost any class. I raid on a Troll Guardian Druid, and I use the Berserking racial with the Shado-Pan Assault trinket proc to get a fast-ticking, hard-hitting Lacerate and Thrash. Plus the CC duration reduction is nice on fights where you get stunned frequently.

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