Damien

Gladiator Warrior 6.2

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This thread is for comments about our Gladiator Warrior guide.

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Really great compilationexcept that you listed 2h weapons insted of 1h and shields.

Thank you. The gearing page can do with some fixes and improvements indeed, we're going to work on that right now.

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several times throughout the guild, it mentions rage through autoattacks, but glad stance does not give rage via auto attacks. 

 

also, why is 10% haste listed as a priority? that would make shield slam have a 5.4 sec cast time, which doesnt line up with either a 1.5 sec GCD or a 1 sec GCD (not sure which glad has).

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Don't know whether this is too detailed or not, but with regard to ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge:, I think that this is the optimal rotation, assuming enough haste for 5 GCDs within ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge:

1: ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge + inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam

2: inv_sword_11.jpgDevastate

3: If ability_warrior_stalwartprotector.jpgUltimatum, inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam, Else ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge

4: inv_sword_11.jpgDevastate

5: If ability_warrior_stalwartprotector.jpgUltimatum, inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam, Else ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge/inv_sword_11.jpgDevastate depending on 3

*: Spam ability_rogue_ambush.jpgHeroic Strike throughout.

This way, there is a possibility of fitting 3x inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam within ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge, assuming ability_warrior_stalwartprotector.jpgUltimatum procs twice. If it procs once, you still have room for ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge. If it doesn't proc at all, you would result with the usual 2xinv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam + ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge+ 2xinv_sword_11.jpgDevastate

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You didnt add Glyph of Heroic Strike to the Glyph Section which I think is an excellent Glyph for Gladiator Warriors and should be mentioned as mandatory when fighting against two or more targets!

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I personally think the Glyph section is lacking "Glyph of Cleave which in my opinion is mandatory when fighting two or more targets, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

/Edit: Maybe doublepost since I first wrote this as a guest

/edit2: It already got added but I changed the name of the glyph to the right one since its glyph of cleave not glyph of heroic strike..

Edited by emala

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I made a macro linking shield slam, revenge and dragon roar to heroic strike, seeing as that can be used off gcd, i alternate those and Sheild slam with devastate, and if enough rage do HS at Same time as each devaste as well. Seen to be getting higher dps than my fury spec on TG as wel as SMF, while smf is supposed to be better than gladiator at this point.

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Why don't you list Knight's Badge for a trinket for Gladiator? Doesn't the bonus armor work well with glad stance and it still has the same crit proc that the skull of war has. Am I mistaken here?

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for trinkets Knight's badge vs Skull of War ... Whats your opinion?

Evergaze arcane trinket is also good for glad

Edited by Darksteel

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Hey, nice guide overall but there's a few things that need to be changed... 

Here's a list off the top of my head:

 

Talents are on point, you need to mention Glyph of Cleave though, it's a major dps increase on a lot of fights in highmaul and pretty much mandatory when you consider the alternatives. 

 

On the rotation part, maybe mention that you want to save dragon roar for when you have 4-5 stacks of US and only devastate available (makes it so you spend more time at high stacks.) 

 

Haste doesn't increase your rage regen based on attack speed, it increases it because if lowers the CD of your rage regenerating abilities. 

 

Savage Feast will increase your mastery, it's not a very good choice when it comes to food buffs.

 

You probably want to mention that macroing Heroic Strike into abilities is a convenient way to reduce the required APM of US. I use two sets of Devastate/Revenge/Shield Slam, one with HS macroed and one without. Other useful/almost required macros would be mouseover Intervene and Vigilance.

 

The gearing is pretty much all wrong, there's no mention of Bonus Armor gear and the stat priority is not accurate. Very misleading ATM.

 

 

 

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Why bother with unending rage? You should never be at 100 rage. Constantly spam Heroic strike during your rotation and pray to the RNG gods for Sword and Board procs for more rage for more HS for more DPS.

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several times throughout the guild, it mentions rage through autoattacks, but glad stance does not give rage via auto attacks. 

 

also, why is 10% haste listed as a priority? that would make shield slam have a 5.4 sec cast time, which doesnt line up with either a 1.5 sec GCD or a 1 sec GCD (not sure which glad has).

Thank you for pointing out the issue with Rage generation. It's been fixed now. Regarding the Haste breakpoint, it turns out that it's actually so much lower than 10% that you will always have it with raid buffs, so it's not worth mentioning. The stat priority has also been updated.

 

Don't know whether this is too detailed or not, but with regard to ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge:, I think that this is the optimal rotation, assuming enough haste for 5 GCDs within ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge:

1: ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge + inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam

2: inv_sword_11.jpgDevastate

3: If ability_warrior_stalwartprotector.jpgUltimatum, inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam, Else ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge

4: inv_sword_11.jpgDevastate

5: If ability_warrior_stalwartprotector.jpgUltimatum, inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam, Else ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge/inv_sword_11.jpgDevastate depending on 3

*: Spam ability_rogue_ambush.jpgHeroic Strike throughout.

This way, there is a possibility of fitting 3x inv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam within ability_warrior_shieldguard.jpgShield Charge, assuming ability_warrior_stalwartprotector.jpgUltimatum procs twice. If it procs once, you still have room for ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge. If it doesn't proc at all, you would result with the usual 2xinv_shield_05.jpgShield Slam + ability_warrior_revenge.jpgRevenge+ 2xinv_sword_11.jpgDevastate

That's not bad, but after discussing the issue with Jalopy we agreed that the way the rotation is listed in the guide is essentially the same as you're putting forth, so we're going to leave it as it is. Although, I'm sure your post might help people looking for a different perspective.

 

You didnt add Glyph of Heroic Strike to the Glyph Section which I think is an excellent Glyph for Gladiator Warriors and should be mentioned as mandatory when fighting against two or more targets!

I personally think the Glyph section is lacking "Glyph of Heroic Strike" which in my opinion is mandatory when fighting two or more targets, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

/Edit: Maybe doublepost since I first wrote this as a guest

Thank you, Glyph of Cleave has been added.

 

I made a macro linking shield slam, revenge and dragon roar to heroic strike, seeing as that can be used off gcd, i alternate those and Sheild slam with devastate, and if enough rage do HS at Same time as each devaste as well. Seen to be getting higher dps than my fury spec on TG as wel as SMF, while smf is supposed to be better than gladiator at this point.

Having a macro for Heroic Strike will lead to sub-par play, so while it can certainly make things more comfortable to play with, it won't lead to DPS that is as high as it could be if you managed your abilities optimally yourself.

 

Why don't you list Knight's Badge for a trinket for Gladiator? Doesn't the bonus armor work well with glad stance and it still has the same crit proc that the skull of war has. Am I mistaken here?

for trinkets Knight's badge vs Skull of War ... Whats your opinion?

Evergaze arcane trinket is also good for glad

Evergaze arcane also good for glad

The trinket list can do with some improvements, that's next on the list for us.

 

 

 

Hey, nice guide overall but there's a few things that need to be changed... 

Here's a list off the top of my head:

 

Talents are on point, you need to mention Glyph of Cleave though, it's a major dps increase on a lot of fights in highmaul and pretty much mandatory when you consider the alternatives. 

 

On the rotation part, maybe mention that you want to save dragon roar for when you have 4-5 stacks of US and only devastate available (makes it so you spend more time at high stacks.) 

 

Haste doesn't increase your rage regen based on attack speed, it increases it because if lowers the CD of your rage regenerating abilities. 

 

Savage Feast will increase your mastery, it's not a very good choice when it comes to food buffs.

 

You probably want to mention that macroing Heroic Strike into abilities is a convenient way to reduce the required APM of US. I use two sets of Devastate/Revenge/Shield Slam, one with HS macroed and one without. Other useful/almost required macros would be mouseover Intervene and Vigilance.

 

The gearing is pretty much all wrong, there's no mention of Bonus Armor gear and the stat priority is not accurate. Very misleading ATM.

Glyph of Heroic Strike added. The Dragon Roar for 4-5 stacks of US is viable, but it's so niche that I don't think it's really worth including in the guide.

Haste/autoattacks fixed as mentioned above.

 

Savage Feast increases your highest secondary stat, which should be Critical Strike. It shouldn't increase your Mastery.

 

As mentioned above, macroing Heroic Strike into other things will not lead to optimal play.

 

Finally, as mentioned, we're going to work some more on this trinket part.

 

Thank you very much for your post, though. We really appreciate it.

 

 

 

Why bother with unending rage? You should never be at 100 rage. Constantly spam Heroic strike during your rotation and pray to the RNG gods for Sword and Board procs for more rage for more HS for more DPS.

All the other glyph choices you have are situational, and you'll really never need to drop Unending Rage to make room for something else. And while you might think that with impeccable Rage management you won't ever need to have more than 100 Rage, that's really not the case in practice. The extra tolerance that Unending Rage gives you is extremely useful, especially if you're using Unyielding Strikes (which you should be).

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I am also finding that for multiple target pulls (generally anything 3+) substituting thunderclap on cool down for HS is netting me a higher dps/damage done than using HS alone. This amount goes up at a ridiculous rate the more mobs that are present and within 8 yards (pretty much anything in melee range of the tank). Most posts I see that mention thunderclap only make note of its deep wounds but fail to mention that TC also does 1+84% of AP (according to the tooltip) to everything in 8 yards. I know my AP is low since I haven't been able to flesh out the bonus armor, but even I am running at 4100 AP. 84% of that is 3465 base damage. I've watch recount for damage done during 5 mans and have seen significant jumps in my damage every time TC goes off.

 

I'm not a numbers guru, but I am just wondering how closely people have looked at the impact of TC's initial damage instead of just its bleed damage. Maybe someone good at checking logs and numbers might take a look at it some time.....?

 

 

Lunariel - Doomhammer

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You had updated trinkets but no mention about Knight's Badge ... I think its better then skull of war for glad war

 

Since it provides more AP and has the same Proc as Skull of War I also think it is the better choice. I was also thinking about enchanting Mark of the Blackrock on a secondary Weapon and switch to it if you drop below 50%  because its a massive AP increase if it procs.

Edited by emala

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Nice guide!  One question, tho - you mention for Gladiator that it is basically as good at generating DPS as Arms, but below Fury.  In the Arms section, however, you contradict this, and say that Arms does less DPS than Fury (at least at high levels).  So, which of these is actually the best choice for maxing DPS?

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I am also finding that for multiple target pulls (generally anything 3+) substituting thunderclap on cool down for HS is netting me a higher dps/damage done than using HS alone. This amount goes up at a ridiculous rate the more mobs that are present and within 8 yards (pretty much anything in melee range of the tank). Most posts I see that mention thunderclap only make note of its deep wounds but fail to mention that TC also does 1+84% of AP (according to the tooltip) to everything in 8 yards. I know my AP is low since I haven't been able to flesh out the bonus armor, but even I am running at 4100 AP. 84% of that is 3465 base damage. I've watch recount for damage done during 5 mans and have seen significant jumps in my damage every time TC goes off.

 

I'm not a numbers guru, but I am just wondering how closely people have looked at the impact of TC's initial damage instead of just its bleed damage. Maybe someone good at checking logs and numbers might take a look at it some time.....?

 

 

Lunariel - Doomhammer

I have checked if using Thunder Clap with and without Resonating Power glyph (+50% damage, +50% cooldown) is worth it for gladiators against single target.

 

Here are results for my gear (dungeon blues, mostly).

I set simcraft to you use Thunder Clap instead of Devastate only when I have 4+ stacks of Unyielding Power. 

Against pure single target it seems to be a DPS loss, but it's probably a DPS increase against 2+ targets. 

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I still want to know why the heck these guides all say that "Juggernaut is the best rage generation". Juggernaut and Double Time both allow you to generate rage every 12 seconds. They are the same rage generation. And Double Time also lets you use it back to back in a pinch. Juggernaut should never be taken over Double Time.

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I still want to know why the heck these guides all say that "Juggernaut is the best rage generation". Juggernaut and Double Time both allow you to generate rage every 12 seconds. They are the same rage generation. And Double Time also lets you use it back to back in a pinch. Juggernaut should never be taken over Double Time.

Double time allows you to use 2 charges in 40 seconds. 

Juggernaut allows you to use 1 charge ever 12 seconds, or 3 charges every 36 seconds.

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Double time allows you to use 2 charges in 40 seconds. 

Juggernaut allows you to use 1 charge ever 12 seconds, or 3 charges every 36 seconds.

 

Actually Double time would allow you to use your charges 4 times in 40 seconds, if you use it on a 10 seconds interval. As you when you would use the second charge, the first one will only have a 10 seconds cooldown left.

 

Even when used back to back, it will only take 20 sec to get the first charge back, which makes it possible to get 3 charges in a little over 20 seconds. At which you would get the forth charge at possible the 42th second.

 

As for Juggernaut is will require 48 seconds to get 4 charges.

 

Which would put Double time ahead of Juggernaut any time, in my opinion.

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Double Time:

 

"You can use Charge twice in a row, but it can only grant Rage once every 12 sec. Each use has a 20 sec recharge time."

 

If you spam charge through double time, you are getting less rage than through Juggernaut, however, lets say you held off and only charged every 12 seconds with Double Time.  You can match Juggernaut for the initial 3 charges, but eventually Double Time caps out at 1 charge every 20 seconds, where as Juggernaut can go every 12 all day long.

 

(opening combat)

00 Seconds (Charge 1): Juggernaut/Double Time (20 sec CD starts on DT)

12 Seconds (Charge 2): Juggernaut/Double Time (8 left on first, 20 sec CD DOES NOT start on second DT)

20 Seconds: 1 Charge available for Double Time (20 sec CD starts on next DT charge)

24 Seconds (Charge 3): Juggernaut/Double Time (16 seconds left on first, 20 sec CD DOES NOT start on second DT)

36 Seconds: Juggernaut (4 seconds left on DT Charge)

40 Seconds: Double Time (From this point forward DT can only charge every 20 seconds unless you store charges)

 

Juggernaut on CD generates more rage in the long haul than double time ever will.

 

All that being said, charging the same target twice in PVE does not currently generate any additional rage, but charging a different target will. This is true for both Double Time and Juggernaut.

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