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Sub Rogue LF advise

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Hi Guys,


thanks in advance for the help!

I am currently playing assassination, but i want to play Sub (i think it is more challenging and therefore more fun). My Assassination DPS (~24-27k) is alot higher than my Sub Dps. Thus i want to improve, but i don't really know how.


I have read the Sub Rogue Guide here on icy-veins, aswell as Topics in the forum. Including other Rogues LF Help Topics, Carrns guides (Thanks a lot for those!): https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/7861-how-to-create-an-effective-ui/

and https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/7987-how-to-properly-use-shadow-dance/aswell as a few other Topics.


My Armory:


I am using pretty much the same equipment for both Specs, thats why i got Mastery Enchants/Gems. For Sub i use an iLvl 670 Axe with Mark of the Frostwolf (Multistrike) in the off-hand.



The Butcher:



Twin Ogron:






I am still new to the combatlog thing, but here are my thoughts:

- I should use premed +snd right before pull, otherwise the uptime is alright?

- Rupture and Hemo uptime is alright?

- too many Hemo casts?

- i almost never use def-cds. Huge mistake

- need to use vanish and SD more frequently

- FoK when facing 2+ targets


Butcher fight: i somehow didn't use Ambush after Vanish. I don't even know what happened there laugh.pngsad.png


Twins: almost never used Fan of Knives as combo point builder


Bracken: actually never used FoK unsure.png


I also think that i am using SD wrong. I am not sure weather i should use Evis during SD or just spam Ambush? I always gain 10+ CP during SD, any additional would be wasted. Another problem i am facing is the bleed duration. I guess you could say that Sinister Calling reduces the uptime of bleed effects. I always have to refresh those during or right after SD, which results in less Evis casts during find Weakness. What should be the uptime for Rupture and Hemo before using SD? I usually try to refresh those with 7sec or less remaining duration.


I am looking forward to your thoughts. If you need more Infos, just tell me.

Sorry for my english. I am not a native speaker.


Greetings laugh.png

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Ok so without looking at the logs I'll try and answer your questions first.


Rupture lasts 24 seconds, which can be refreshed under 7.2s for it's "true" maximum duration. Any duration over 20s is good (a full 30s one being ideal), but not really necessary - even with Rupture up to 30s, if a few of your Ambushes multistrike then the duration gets cut anyways. Hemo really doesn't matter. So long as it's up to cover any slips of Rupture uptime, it's a minimal increase in damage over Backstab and costs slightly less. Should still use it to keep the Bleed up, but not inside FW.


Yes, you should be casting Evis during Dance


Now, looking at your logs:


New best opener, and only from Stealth at the start of the fight (so not after Vanish), is Garrote > Ambush. If you can fit another Ambush in, then do it, but you may end up casting BS if you have low Haste or aren't using Glyph of Energy. Pool energy for a bit, let HaT give you free cp's, and use SR > Rupture > Dance. 


Hemo uptime is good, but maybe too much - you cast it during Find Weakness a few times, and it's better to cast Backstab instead. You don't need to use it at the start either, cause you'll be opening with Garrote and don't need it for the SV damage buff.


Other than that, everything looks pretty good to me. Try the new opener with Garrote and get used to how it feels

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Why exactly was Garrote added to the opener but not the regular rotation?  It's not immediately clear to me.  Is it so our first rupture can benefit from sanguinary vein?

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Yeah, and it applies Find Weakness, whereas opening with Hemo > Ambush skips the initial FW

It doesn't do much damage though, so there's almost always a better option for skills to use

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Hey Carrn,


thanks for the reply!


I will try this new opening. One question about that: after garrote, ambush, (ambush) should i go for SR, rupture, dance.. right away, or should i make use of the initial FW by using BS a few times? :D

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Kind of both, I think. You want to BS a couple times to make sure you get 5 cp (leaving time for HaT to proc and give you free ones as well) but you also want to hit a good amount of energy pooled.


I think it's best to wait on your trinket procs - if they don't proc right off the bat, then you can wait and BS a couple extra times, but you should try to stay at as high an energy level as you can so you can burn more of it on Ambushes during your Dance.

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