Damien

Heroes of the Storm Li Li

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This thread is for comments about our Li Li build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Hey Srey, what are your thoughts on the full serpent build floating around the nexus right now? It seems very popular according to HotsLogs

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Hey Srey, what are your thoughts on the full serpent build floating around the nexus right now? It seems very popular according to HotsLogs

It became popular before its nerf, the reason its even popular right now, at least i hope people choose this build because of what im going to say and not because of the bee hive mind,  is because you can target the healing instead of the smart heal, before the bouncing on the serpent was healing the target so i think they nerfed that, they removed, this build is little more round up, with at least more utility with the fact that you can blind 4 people,  prefer the slow on the lvl 13 instead of the damage but thats personal.

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This is a reply to the Serpent Build comments:

 

I feel that the currently listed build does everything that the Serpent Build does but better. More damage, more healing. I don't see a good reason to ever go Serpent Build.

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Quick reference, talent build and the descriptions to the talent build are all over the place right now ^^

 

QR has Healing with damage hybrid build: (1) Conjurer's Pursuit, (2) Mass Vortex, (3) Lightning Serpent, (4) Jug of 1000 Cups, (5) Surging Winds, (6) Safety Sprint, (7) Kung Fu Hustle.

 

The talent build section shows Lightning Serpent and Cleanse as recommended, but the description recommends Lightning Serpent and The Good Stuff, Safety Sprint is at the same time recommended and not recommended, etc. 

 

I guess the tree was changed and the highlighted icons are not updated?

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Quick reference, talent build and the descriptions to the talent build are all over the place right now ^^

 

QR has Healing with damage hybrid build: (1) Conjurer's Pursuit, (2) Mass Vortex, (3) Lightning Serpent, (4) Jug of 1000 Cups, (5) Surging Winds, (6) Safety Sprint, (7) Kung Fu Hustle.

 

The talent build section shows Lightning Serpent and Cleanse as recommended, but the description recommends Lightning Serpent and The Good Stuff, Safety Sprint is at the same time recommended and not recommended, etc. 

 

I guess the tree was changed and the highlighted icons are not updated?

 

Thank you for pointing this out, I will fix it right away.

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Hi!

I'm curious, mechanic wise, how temporary buffs, like Surging Winds, works with channeled abilities, such as Jug of 1,000 Cups? Say I have 4 stacks Surging Winds with 3 seconds left and I use Jug of 1,000 Cups (channelling 6 seconds), does the spell benefit it's full duration from Surging Winds or does it lose power after the stacks run out?

Cheers!

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On 8/28/2016 at 5:35 AM, Guest Soaa said:

Is Li Li a good pick up at high ranks (diamond+)?

According to hotslogs, she has a winrate over 50% in diamond and master, so yes

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On 8/16/2016 at 0:19 AM, Guest legobil said:

Hi!

I'm curious, mechanic wise, how temporary buffs, like Surging Winds, works with channeled abilities, such as Jug of 1,000 Cups? Say I have 4 stacks Surging Winds with 3 seconds left and I use Jug of 1,000 Cups (channelling 6 seconds), does the spell benefit it's full duration from Surging Winds or does it lose power after the stacks run out?

Cheers!

Surging WindsSurging Winds causes an Ability Power buff for 8 seconds. How this interacts with her different Abilities depends on the mechanics of each Ability. For Jug of 1,000 CupsJug of 1,000 Cups, each brew tossed from it is "cast" and modified individually. This means that if you cast Jug of 1000 Cups (6 second channel,) with only 3 seconds of Surging Winds buff left, only half of the brews tossed will be buffed. Let us look at another Ability. Cloud SerpentCloud Serpent is cast only once, and then persists for 8 seconds. The serpent's damage will benefit from the Surging Winds for a full 8 seconds, even if it was cast with 1 second remaining on the buff. Another interesting interaction between these two Abilities is that a serpent that has already been cast will gain increased damage from a Surging Winds buff activated after it.

On 8/28/2016 at 8:35 AM, Guest Soaa said:

Is Li Li a good pick up at high ranks (diamond+)?

Li Li is played in all levels of play, from Bronze to Grand Master. While she is not a first pick or first ban Hero, she has unique strengths that can completely shutdown certain team compositions, specifically teams that are reliant on Basic Attacks. Li Li is also capable of talenting into a lot of damage, which can be great for duo support compositions. Finally, Li Li's kit allows her to more freely position herself, as she never stops moving; and, actually moves faster when damaged.

While she does have many strengths that should be exploited at all levels of play, she also has some drawbacks. Li Li's sustained healing is amazing, but she has no tools to save allies from heavy burst damage. This makes her a poor pick against compositions that have burst mages like Jaina or Chromie.

On 9/5/2016 at 9:56 PM, Guest ElNino said:

According to hotslogs, she has a winrate over 50% in diamond and master, so yes

This is most likely due to the fact that in high rank matches, she is primarily picked within her niche. In a pinch I have seen her taken as a comfort pick, and she usually does acceptably there; although, it can go poorly if she is picked into a lot of burst damage.

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I just seen this on the changelog under map-specific advice:

22 Jun. 2015: Cloud Serpent does not attack Chests on Blackheart's Bay

That is partially false....in it being that you have to be attacking it for it to attack chests, otherwise, it will ignore them. I did this the other day in a VS A.I. match when I was playing around.

Otherwise, I love this guide and I actually learned something here!

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I was wondering, when is it best to take the regular healing build, and when is it better to opt for the serpent build?

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2 hours ago, Guest Dionysus said:

I was wondering, when is it best to take the regular healing build, and when is it better to opt for the serpent build?

Healing build is recommended when you are the only healer in your team, while the Serpent build offers more damage at the cost of healing power and should be usually used when you have another healer in your team, but which can not heal the whole team by themselves. 

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this is very interesting change for lili. I have fought like 200games as lili with win rate 59,3%. I can honestly say I know how to play her very efficient.

OP talent is right at lvl 1 Eager Adventurer

Talent 4 Hindering Winds is nice to have movement speed reduction as healer

Tough choice at lvl 7

1000 jugs is way worse than before patch (after lvl 20 - no CD reduction) = 70sec CD. Trait works only on basic and active abilities.

Talent at 13 Surging Winds and 20 Mistweaver for healing LiLi are the only choice and Mass Vortex and Double Dragon for dmg

Talent 16: when I went full heal I always went for 2x healing brew, but not anymore Pick Me Up is just better

Talent 20: I dont think lili needs armor. Yes its nice, but I always got killed with spell, barely to autoattack (due to clouds) I think extra armor is overkill compare to benefit which Mistweaver provides

__________________________________________________________

!!! Lili at lvl 16 can solo boss as full healer !!!

__________________________________________________________

I think I will go with dragons only - so I can help my team with 1) healing 2) slowing enemies 3) blinding them - which is really great for one hero !

What I loved about old lili was the variety of builds u could go (heal, cloud and even serpents) and all were possible to play with both ulties.

I think that my lili will have one variety for both builds (if serpent dmg will prove useful) at lvl 20 (dragons or heal). If serpent dmg build will prove weak, then it will be only one, but super strong build for lili - this makes me kinda sad about new change, I like heroes where you can go multiple talents to get totally different outcome, lili was one of them. Now I am afraid it is over.

Pro: more healing (especially Mistweaver ) and more (I dare to say endless) mana via Eager Adventurer

Pro: very long sustain anywhere on map due to Mistweaver

Cons: she always need to take dmg and her blinds/serpents need to hit Heroes only to unlock her true potential

Overall result: new lili is great

P.S.: patch came out only few hours ago, I played only test. Time will show if lili will be really good or not

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I played a lot of games with Lili and she appears to be undertuned:

-She has the lowest healing output of all healers before level 10

-Her W-build provides healing output so low that it's comparable to Tassadar.

-E not only lost damage, but overall utility

-Her trait feels meaningless without Eager Adventurer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here are what I think needs to be changed for Lili:

-Her trait should last 1.5 seconds. Eager Adventurer gives 0.5 seconds instead of 50% more D.

-W needs to heal and deal more damage; this is an ability designed for trading. I wouldn't mind if W duration was decreased by 2 seconds if W healing and damage were increased by 50%. Honestly, I don't know what to do with the new W; it's just baseline terrible and some talents associated are terrible.

-E cooldown should be lowered by 2 seconds. This would make Wind Serpent a much more favorable talent and allow Lili's damage mitigation to make up for her poor healing.

Not all changes should be made, but something needs to be done. I'm going to check Hots api every so often to see if I judged her wrong.

Edited by Trensicourt

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1 hour ago, EDL666 said:

I am quite certain there is no CD on Fast Feet, otherwise it would be terrible.

The cooldown refers to the active part gained through Safety SprintSafety Sprint.

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And that makes it go into the tooltip? Ultimately I don't decide anything around here, but I think it should just be in Safety Sprint and not on Fast Feet across the website

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2 hours ago, EDL666 said:

And that makes it go into the tooltip? Ultimately I don't decide anything around here, but I think it should just be in Safety Sprint and not on Fast Feet across the website

I passed this onto Damien and will let him decide. Thanks for the input!

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Should her W-build be removed from the guide at this point?

I mean, no one ever uses it because it's just bad and from what I see people prefer Li Li as a solo support in her current state.

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