Damien

Heroes of the Storm Malfurion

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This thread is for comments about our Malfurion build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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I don't agree with the assessment of the talents related to "Innervate", especially since the guide recommends enhancing "Regrowth" at level 1 instead.

"Moonfire" does cost 20 mana to cast, so in order for a net mana return to occur from the level 1 talent, one does need to hit at least 3 targets per cast. It also does only stack to 6, capping the mana return even under the most ideal of circumstances.

"Innervate" does scale up madly with level, while "Moonfire" becomes less and less important (especially concerning the mana return from the level 1 talent).

If you have a lane partner who relies on mana (and most heroes do, even tanks), then "Innervate" is a godsend, and improving it at level 1 can be significant already; it only gets better from there.

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The articles here are all great, the only thing I would add is a clarification that your tips seem to be SPECIFICALLY for team play.

 

The reason I'm saying is I'm currently just learning the game, so I'm just playing AI opponents.  And it's impossible to play Malfurion as a healer:  your AI teammates don't understand what it means to have support.

 

But if you take all the Entangling Roots upgrades, even the ones you very specifically do not recommend, Malfurion can in fact be played like a DPS character.  A single cast of Entangling Roots later in the game (post 7?) will melt an entire wave of attackers.  What isn't caught in the "root ball" will be killed by the Treant.

 

And since people are so unpredictable, I'm sure there's a game somewhere that having a DPS-Malfurion would throw the opposing team off enough to make it viable.  I would agree that would be like 1% of matches, but the fact remains it CAN be done.

 

Keep up the great work!

 

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I like this article because it tells people how to build Mal as a healer, but at the same time, that severely understates his flexibility and usefulness for potential DPS and crowd control.

 

The guide states Twilight Dream as "not recommended" when the description itself proves that it is, at least, a situationally strong tool. Sure, it's hard to position, but blasting 3-4 heroes at the start of a team fight turns the tide very quickly. It is also useful during an attempted gank, and taking out high-damage DPS like Valla, Illidan, Tychus or Falstad by yourself is always a valuable use for Twilight Dream that opposing teams will not expect.

 

In a DPS-build, Mal can easily solo a number of assassins including Falstad, Valla, Jaina, Tychus, and Illidan if played correctly. Combining Full Moonfire with Lunar Shower allows for near endless DPS in the latter half of a match. Complimented by Mal's ability to root and heal, his survivability can be extremely high with a skilled player. Moonfire has the added benefit of having a large cast rage (potentially amplified by Full Moonfire) that allows you to chase a low health hero easily and effectively. However, it is important to let a team know you play Mal this way because, otherwise, they'll be expecting your mediocre heals and Tranquility. Also, do not underestimate the potential for Moonfire to reveal cloaked assassins like Zeratul and Nova.

 

As a healer, Mal should be compared to Lili at all times. Mal's Tranquility heals for less than Lili's Jug of 1,000 Cups and has shorter range; additionally, while Regrowth has the potential to heal for more over an extended period of time, Lili's Healing Brew heals for more health immediately and has 4 seconds less cooldown without any talent upgrades.

 

For these reasons, I strongly believe that if you want a great healer, there is no reason to choose Mal over Lili. If you want flexibility and have good judgment, pick Mal.

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I like this article because it tells people how to build Mal as a healer, but at the same time, that severely understates his flexibility and usefulness for potential DPS and crowd control.

[...]

As a healer, Mal should be compared to Lili at all times.

Malfurion should not be compared to Lili at all (except for the fact that they are both support healers). The mechanics of both heroes are very different; I'd like to add that Malfurion is much stronger, because he does have CC that Lili completely lacks.

I also find it slightly distressing how the guide flip-flops its talent recommendations (Rampant Growth just went from "pick this!" to "avoid! it sucks completely!"). Maybe do the math on the various talents before making recommendations...

Edited by siggboy

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I don't agree with the assessment of the talents related to "Innervate", especially since the guide recommends enhancing "Regrowth" at level 1 instead.

"Moonfire" does cost 20 mana to cast, so in order for a net mana return to occur from the level 1 talent, one does need to hit at least 3 targets per cast. It also does only stack to 6, capping the mana return even under the most ideal of circumstances.

"Innervate" does scale up madly with level, while "Moonfire" becomes less and less important (especially concerning the mana return from the level 1 talent).

If you have a lane partner who relies on mana (and most heroes do, even tanks), then "Innervate" is a godsend, and improving it at level 1 can be significant already; it only gets better from there.

 

Unfortunately, Innervate cannot be self-cast; if it could, that would be an entirely different story.

I'd argue that, in general, players should first and foremost focus on their own Mana management, especially since healers are the archetype that are most dependent on their abilities to impact anything. Innervate is already pretty good as is. I think you overestimate how much Innervate scales; the difference of Mana it grants to a level 1 and a level 20 hero is approximately 30 - that's not exactly stellar in terms of scaling

 

I'd like to point out that Harmony can only stack once per Moonfire, irregardless of how many targets it hits. Moonfire is an important aspect of Malfurion's playstyle; the benefits of the talent is at least tangible, if not a bit underwhelming.

 

 

The articles here are all great, the only thing I would add is a clarification that your tips seem to be SPECIFICALLY for team play.

 

The reason I'm saying is I'm currently just learning the game, so I'm just playing AI opponents.  And it's impossible to play Malfurion as a healer:  your AI teammates don't understand what it means to have support.

 

But if you take all the Entangling Roots upgrades, even the ones you very specifically do not recommend, Malfurion can in fact be played like a DPS character.  A single cast of Entangling Roots later in the game (post 7?) will melt an entire wave of attackers.  What isn't caught in the "root ball" will be killed by the Treant.

 

And since people are so unpredictable, I'm sure there's a game somewhere that having a DPS-Malfurion would throw the opposing team off enough to make it viable.  I would agree that would be like 1% of matches, but the fact remains it CAN be done.

 

Keep up the great work!

 

I've had successful games as a damage-dealing Malfurion myself. Those games are extremely rare, however, to the point where I couldn't explain the circumstances that allowed them to be in the first place.

 

The reason we don't typically gear guides around A.I. games is because we deem them to not be the core of Heroes of the Storm's game play. I'd like to go on record here and say that I mean this with the utmost respect to players who do enjoy the stress-free environment of bot games. However, they tend require players to play much less optimally for to be successful; they're there to let you try stuff out without fear of resentment from your fellow players! In general, I feel that most, if not all talents can work in such an environment.

Thank you for the feedback and kind words.

 

 

I like this article because it tells people how to build Mal as a healer, but at the same time, that severely understates his flexibility and usefulness for potential DPS and crowd control.
 
The guide states Twilight Dream as "not recommended" when the description itself proves that it is, at least, a situationally strong tool. Sure, it's hard to position, but blasting 3-4 heroes at the start of a team fight turns the tide very quickly. It is also useful during an attempted gank, and taking out high-damage DPS like Valla, Illidan, Tychus or Falstad by yourself is always a valuable use for Twilight Dream that opposing teams will not expect.
 
In a DPS-build, Mal can easily solo a number of assassins including Falstad, Valla, Jaina, Tychus, and Illidan if played correctly. Combining Full Moonfire with Lunar Shower allows for near endless DPS in the latter half of a match. Complimented by Mal's ability to root and heal, his survivability can be extremely high with a skilled player. Moonfire has the added benefit of having a large cast rage (potentially amplified by Full Moonfire) that allows you to chase a low health hero easily and effectively. However, it is important to let a team know you play Mal this way because, otherwise, they'll be expecting your mediocre heals and Tranquility. Also, do not underestimate the potential for Moonfire to reveal cloaked assassins like Zeratul and Nova.
 
As a healer, Mal should be compared to Lili at all times. Mal's Tranquility heals for less than Lili's Jug of 1,000 Cups and has shorter range; additionally, while Regrowth has the potential to heal for more over an extended period of time, Lili's Healing Brew heals for more health immediately and has 4 seconds less cooldown without any talent upgrades.
 
For these reasons, I strongly believe that if you want a great healer, there is no reason to choose Mal over Lili. If you want flexibility and have good judgment, pick Mal.

 

 

Although I'm a fan myself of always experimenting with as many builds as possible, I tend to write guides from a meta-gaming-reflective perspective; in other words, what people expect from you. In the overwhelming majority of the time, when a player sees a Malfurion pick in a ranked game (or otherwise), they expect to be healed. If you're running with 4 of your friends, and wish to try different things (which I do all the time, at the dismay of said friends), that is not our domain. I often misquote that consistency usually trumps potential.

 

 

 

I also find it slightly distressing how the guide flip-flops its talent recommendations (Rampant Growth just went from "pick this!" to "avoid! it sucks completely!"). Maybe do the math on the various talents before making recommendations...

 

 

We regularly update our talent choices to reflect meta-gaming trends and personal experiences. I'd look like quite the fool if I tried to convince you or anyone else that I'm right 100% of the time when, in reality, it's more like 98-99%.

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Hey, nice guide.

You mentioned that Rampant Growth is the weakest talent atm., but you also mentioned that Malfurion is the hero who really lacks in the department of instant healing and that his abilities already have a decent range. Picking the range talent is beneficial against default teams.

 

But I think that makes the Rampant Growth a situational talent against enemy team compositions with more healers.

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Hey, nice guide.

You mentioned that Rampant Growth is the weakest talent atm., but you also mentioned that Malfurion is the hero who really lacks in the department of instant healing and that his abilities already have a decent range. Picking the range talent is beneficial against default teams.

 

But I think that makes the Rampant Growth a situational talent against enemy team compositions with more healers.

Hi Psojed,

Rampant Growth is really, really weak, only adding between 45 and 150 healing to Regrowth (at level 4 and 20, respectively). That's less than one basic attack for most heroes, to put things into perspective. Even if Malf' does lack instant healing, landing a good Entangling Root, thanks to Elune's Grace, will outperform any extra healing done by Regrowth tenfold.

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Just thought it would be worth mentioning. I paired up with Cho'Gall quite a bit tonight, and he seems to do really well with Malfurion. Has a huge health pool that can really take advantage of Malf's hots.

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Just thought it would be worth mentioning. I paired up with Cho'Gall quite a bit tonight, and he seems to do really well with Malfurion. Has a huge health pool that can really take advantage of Malf's hots.

 

Yep, I came to the same conclusion as well. I think our Cho'gall pre-guide has such a mention.

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Just thought that I would mention that you are missing (because this was written before it) a Towers of Doom specific advice page. Hope this helped. smile.png

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Just thought that I would mention that you are missing (because this was written before it) a Towers of Doom specific advice page. Hope this helped. smile.png

 

It's... it's coming... :(

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I'm not speaking from experience, but wouldn't Hindering Moonfire combo really well with heroes with Executioner, which benefits from slowed enemies? And even without Executioner, applying a reliable 2 sec slow every 3 seconds seems like a good alternative to a missable 2 sec root, no?

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8 hours ago, Guest ProPlayerKim said:

I'm not speaking from experience, but wouldn't Hindering Moonfire combo really well with heroes with Executioner, which benefits from slowed enemies? And even without Executioner, applying a reliable 2 sec slow every 3 seconds seems like a good alternative to a missable 2 sec root, no?

Certainly an interesting thought. The idea behind Tenacious Roots, however, is that it makes Entangling Roots that much easier to land; remember that rooting effects also trigger Executioner, and that, as such, Tenacious Roots also fulfils the triggering purpose, albeit less frequently. I'm still of the opinion that Entangling Roots is what truly defines a good Malf player, so I'm a big fan of that talent. I'll think it through and find specific examples of when to use Hindering Moonfire.

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it should be noted that the drone for T1 is OPAF against stealthies! 

 

This is actually a weak build for him even for a 5m team! 

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9 hours ago, Guest Shiboo said:

it should be noted that the drone for T1 is OPAF against stealthies! 

You can spam MoonfireMoonfire to reveal stealthed heroes. Besides, Scouting Drone Icon Scouting Drone can be seen and destroyed by enemy heroes, which significantly reduces its usefulness.

9 hours ago, Guest Shiboo said:

This is actually a weak build for him even for a 5m team! 

Could you please specify why?

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On 05/03/2017 at 9:45 AM, positiv2 said:

You can spam MoonfireMoonfire to reveal stealthed heroes. Besides, Scouting Drone Icon Scouting Drone can be seen and destroyed by enemy heroes, which significantly reduces its usefulness.

Could you please specify why?

In the heat of the battle, you wouldn't be able to constantly moonfire stealth units. Scouting Drone is amazing when put in the backline to protect Jaina/Kael/Valla etc.. It is an amazing zone denial tool at all levels if you place it smartly. The fact that stealth units cannot destroy the drones themselves (if they did, you know they are there) means that it will save your team countless deaths. Spamming moonfire is detrimental to Malfurion's already bad mana problems. Scouting drone cost 0 mana. My recommendations for tier 1 talent is:

1. Shando Clarity - if they have no stealth and you have a mana intensive damage dealer (li ming)

2. Scouting Drone - if they have at least one stealth. This takes priority.

3. Moonburn - if 1 and 2 doesn't apply (or if your team severely lacks wave/merc clears)

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2 hours ago, Guest Malfurion said:

In the heat of the battle, you wouldn't be able to constantly moonfire stealth units. Scouting Drone is amazing when put in the backline to protect Jaina/Kael/Valla etc.. It is an amazing zone denial tool at all levels if you place it smartly. The fact that stealth units cannot destroy the drones themselves (if they did, you know they are there) means that it will save your team countless deaths. Spamming moonfire is detrimental to Malfurion's already bad mana problems. Scouting drone cost 0 mana. My recommendations for tier 1 talent is:

1. Shando Clarity - if they have no stealth and you have a mana intensive damage dealer (li ming)

2. Scouting Drone - if they have at least one stealth. This takes priority.

3. Moonburn - if 1 and 2 doesn't apply (or if your team severely lacks wave/merc clears)

It still can be destroyed by ranged heroes, such as Gul'dan, to allow the cloaked teammate to kill your teammates. 

Since teamfight don't usually take too long, having to spend a little bit of mana a few times doesn't hurt that much. If you expect teamfights take much longer, Scouting DroneScouting Drone gets relatively better indeed.

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Ah, the guide has been updated with the new talents I see. 

It's a shame to see that most of my initial concerns about the changes haven't been alleviated , mostly regarding the early Entangling Roots talents. 

I like that Moonfire Spam, one of my favourite existing builds, is still a thing with the rework, however, I see myself picking up Malfurion less in Season 2 as a solo Support for sure, which was perhaps the intent of the changes overall? I particularly like the choices the player has to make for the different situational talents for the ability, on top of having to make a choice of taking Full Moonfire over Elune's Grace (could see a lot of use for the former on Braxis Holdout), but I will miss the way that Full Moonfire gave Malfurion one of the best ranged poke in the whole game as well as a significant vision tool in it's own right.

It's also strange to see generic talents such as Scouting Drone, Ice Block and Rewind in his kit, without any flavour rework, and Rewind in particular not having many uses with the way Malfurion's kit is. I suppose you could have the level 4 Root talent, with Revitalise at 16 and Rewind at 20 for a whole broccoli farm, but waiting a whole game for such a weird one trick pony is an unreliable way to play any hero, and of course, you can't root someone who is already rooted, which makes level 7's talent, Strangling Vines, a brand new contender for the most useless talent in the entire game. Yay! 

Anti-healing talents can be powerful - one of my most tense games this season was against a Wound Poison Valeera with Dehaka - but skipping the far more situational useful Moonfire talents on the tier for a talent that doesn't even have the added bonus damage anymore simply isn't worth it.

Let's have some breakdown to show why these Entangling Roots talents at 4 and 7 are meh at best; Roots is on a 14 second cooldown. It is Malfurion's most mana intensive basic ability on top of this long cd, so why would you want to pick talents that encourage an unhealthy playstyle with his increased mana thirst that give so little value for their limited uptime? Like I suspected from reading the PTR notes, the healing debuff lasts as long as 1.25 seconds instead of the duration of the spell (3 seconds)... a whole 2 seconds at level 16 with Tenacious. This is can only happen once per hero per root cast if they get caught by the effect of the root itself, and if I did go for an Entangling Roots build (if you could call it that, I'd only take the Treant talent), I would focus on having the spell off cooldown as much as possible while making up for the increased mana cost of the ability, so Revitalise would be the way to go for me over Tenacious, because that would be the only way to get serious value out of the ability if you went for both 4 and 7 talents, and I would probably take Hindering Moonfire over Strangling so the roots would be easier to land and the treant would get more value. You're honestly better off just using it as you've always done, and focusing on the other available talents.

Hopefully they revise Malfurion's talents again in the future, as he is often fun to play, even if he is over represented, but being fun shouldn't be mutually exclusive to being useful to your team regardless of which talents you take! 

I guess it should be worth noting that with Life Seed and Revitalise, Malfurion can have a heal over time ticking on 5 targets, if my thinking is correct? 

 

Edited by Plergoth
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15 minutes ago, Farbas said:

Do you recommend taking Lunar Shower if we don't take Moonburn? Is this DPS worth it against heroes?

Lunar ShowerLunar Shower is strong even without MoonburnMoonburn synergy. However, if you need to pick Scouting DroneScouting Drone/Shan'do's ClarityShan'do's Clarity, you will often be better off with the General build which uses Hindering MoonfireHindering Moonfire.

So, I recommend picking Hindering MoonfireHindering Moonfire, but picking Lunar ShowerLunar Shower is fine as well.

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I noticed that Serenity hasn't been changed at all and still only gives 50 mana over 10 seconds, even if the 25% increased healing is nice. 

On top of that, I am starting to feel that the cooldowns on Tranquillity and Ancestral Healing are a touch too long for the current meta; at 100 seconds each, they are amongst the longest cds any Support has for a healing ult, tied only with Tassadar's non-healing Archon, and only Auriel's Resurrect ahead of them at 120 seconds, an ult which is picked a fraction of the time Crystal Aegis is at all levels of the game.

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Hey fellows. I have been experimenting with a Hybrid build that gives surprising waveclear and even sieging that combines Moonfire and Entangling Roots talents, as well improving his Rejuvenation. With this build my Malfurion is very versatile in battle. But it requires a solid frontilne to peel him, since I don't pick Ice Block.

However, I'm surprised of how much damage he can deal with Vengeful RootsVengeful Roots, a talent that I absolutely despised before the rework. I was in this one game where we had a Butcher in our team, and I'd coordinate his Ruthless OnslaughtRuthless Onslaught with Entangling RootsEntangling Roots, and slowly gained stacks of Vengeful Roots, to the point the Treant was dealing over 400 damage per second. That is huge, and since most players tend to ignore the Treant, my lil tree scored some few hilarious kills in my instead. Also, I managed to get it to save my ass from a Stitches that tried to Hook me, and ended up pulling the Treant instead. In addition, spawning a Treant this strong at forts allows Malfurion to even push the lanes more efficiently.

What do you guys think?

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6 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Hey fellows. I have been experimenting with a Hybrid build that gives surprising waveclear and even sieging that combines Moonfire and Entangling Roots talents, as well improving his Rejuvenation. With this build my Malfurion is very versatile in battle. But it requires a solid frontilne to peel him, since I don't pick Ice Block.

However, I'm surprised of how much damage he can deal with Vengeful RootsVengeful Roots, a talent that I absolutely despised before the rework. I was in this one game where we had a Butcher in our team, and I'd coordinate his Ruthless OnslaughtRuthless Onslaught with Entangling RootsEntangling Roots, and slowly gained stacks of Vengeful Roots, to the point the Treant was dealing over 400 damage per second. That is huge, and since most players tend to ignore the Treant, my lil tree scored some few hilarious kills in my instead. Also, I managed to get it to save my ass from a Stitches that tried to Hook me, and ended up pulling the Treant instead. In addition, spawning a Treant this strong at forts allows Malfurion to even push the lanes more efficiently.

What do you guys think?

Broccoli's health pool is too low to be effective most of the time, and its damage relies upon other heroes' stuns and roots, because broccoli is too slow. If you can get the right composition, then sure, but you would get steamrolled over by a team that has a more reliable core.

It's probably good enough for pre-made QM, but I would advise against running it in higher ranked leagues, even though it is a nice combo.

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