Heroes of the Storm Leoric

[onqun 0]

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/leoric#24.0!2232314

 

Hello I made a talent tree for leoric I need feed back ty

[positiv2 949]

9 hours ago, onqun said:

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/leoric#24.0!2232314

 

Hello I made a talent tree for leoric I need feed back ty

All I can say is that increased movement with the Drain Momentum is not as strong as Burning Rage or Crushing Hope. The speed increase is insignificant, and the talent does not provide any other bonuses, which makes it a subpar talent.

[Kiarbitrager 2]

I'd like to pose a couple of arguments (and would welcome comment on them) for the L13 Drain Momentum being a situational rather than not recommended talent pick as this guide suggests....

1. I'm not sure if it's my playstyle, the lower leagues or otherwise.... but I've found myself tending to pick Leo as a counter to a double warrior composition, and so I tend to be going drain builds. If I'm extra lucky like earlier tonight, I may even get an enemy Az too! It may also be better as I go for a longer-range W skill-shot, so it would be easier for an enemy to escape if crushing hope were picked, thus making it a less worthwhile choice.

2. It could also be that if our team has more roots/slows (possibly stuns) (e.g. a Jaina with us) than the enemy's roots/slows (possibly stuns).... then the drain momentum becomes a more useful pick for chasing-down fleeing targets. A relative 30% (20%+10% is that right?) boost in movement speed (pre L13) while casting drain hope is not to be underestimated!

Any thoughts? Agree/disagree? --Or should I be casting my W a little differently!

[positiv2 949]

3 hours ago, Kiarbitrager said:

I'm not sure if it's my playstyle, the lower leagues or otherwise

HotS Logs show that it is in lower leagues indeed. Lower leagues have higher pick-rate of Drain Momentum, while the top 3 have 10% pick-rate.
As for the talent itself, my comment above yours pretty much sums it up imo - "All I can say is that increased movement with the Drain Momentum is not as strong as Burning Rage or Crushing Hope. The speed increase is insignificant, and the talent does not provide any other bonuses, which makes it a subpar talent."

3 hours ago, Kiarbitrager said:

It could also be that if our team has more roots/slows (possibly stuns) (e.g. a Jaina with us) than the enemy's roots/slows (possibly stuns).... then the drain momentum becomes a more useful pick for chasing-down fleeing targets.

I feel like roots or stuns on either side hurt the power of the talent. If your team has a lot of stuns/roots, you will not need to chase your opponents than often, as your teammates will root or stun them. If the opposing team has roots or stuns, you will not find the extra movements speed as good, as you will find yourself immobile. So, the more roots and stuns in the match, the worse Drain Momentum is.
Besides, you already have a slow with Skeletal Swing, which reduces your need for chase talents.

[Guest Leoric]

I personally use a build that I made up on the fly when I first played Leoric, and its been doing pretty well, although I would like to have others play it and tell me what they think. 

 

Level 1: Mana Thirst

Level 4: Fealty Unto Death

Level 7: Ghastly Reach

Level 10: March of the Black King

Level 13: Drain Momentum

Level 16: Consume Vitality

Level 20: Death March or Spectral Leech

 

March of the Black King doesn't seem as useful as it could be as it's slow and anyone can dodge it. However, if you use it during a team fight, they might not see you use it because of all the other effects happening on screen at the same time. This is also mainly used to either push lanes and punish the enemy heroes in the same lane, or hunt down retreating heroes before they can heal up or hearth. It's also good for escaping enemy heroes if needed, using Drain Momentum to heal and move slightly faster. As it said in the guide though, don't be afraid to die if you need to because you can cheat death because of the undying passive.

[Trensicourt 5]

Been looking at Leoric and some of his crappy talents, and it turns that they are pretty good in the right conditions! Those two talents are Royal Focus and Lingering Apparition. I'll talk about Ossein Renewal last.

So what is good about Royal Focus and Lingering Apparition? On their own, these talents are definitely trash bucket tier. When combined, these talents give Leoric amazing combat mobility and a quick pseudo-global. In team fights, this combination allows Leoric to duck and go for a quick heal at the fountain and be back in 10 seconds. This is especially true where objectives are far from healing fountains-Blackheart's Bay, Cursed Hollows, Warhead Junction. On Cursed Hollows, Leoric can soak for 5 seconds longer, then go to objective in the same time as he would directly ride there. Of course, it's still recommended that Leoric should pick life drain talents, since Leoric is squishy for a Warrior.

In addition to these two talents, going for renewed swing, makes Leoric the strongest shover in the game. I've done this before on Cursed Hollows using Royal Focus, Lingering Apparition, and Renewed Swing. There were minions at our keeps on all three sides, and surprisingly, I was the only one alive. Thus, I started to shove minions back. In 45 seconds, I shoved bottom keep minions to the opposing fort. I then transitioned to middle keep. Similarily, I shoved minions back in 45 seconds. I did the same for top lane. I wasn't afraid of getting ganked during this process, because I could escape in a moments notice with a 4 second CD wraith walk. In addition, the opposing team had to clear my shoved lanes, allowing me to shove the top and mid lanes.

Thus, Royal Focus and Lingering Apparition should be seen as a combo to some sort of Specialist Leoric. Perhaps, a specialist Leoric and a 4-man team could be a viable strategy. I've never seen this tried before, but with the build, it is a definite possibility.

Ossein Renewal used to be recommended, but is now not recommended. I believe this is an incorrect choice. The quick burst of healing allows Leoric to survive the most brutal stage of fights, so he can sustain following the fight. In addition, this talent should always be on cooldown or saved right before a fight, since Leoric can use the talent even in death. Thus, I would put the talent as situational. On the other hand, I would lower Paralyzing Rage to situational from recommended for a few reasons. First, Leoric's problem is his survivability. Early to mid-game, Leoric has mediocre sustain for his mediocre health pool, making him an easy target for a warrior. It takes till Unyielding Despair that Leoric's sustain starts to go through the roof. Paralyzing Rage does little to help this, since the slow from Skeletal Swing is sufficient enough against multiple melee comps. Next, if Leoric has problems reaching his enemies, he should talent for Drain Momentum. If Leoric cannot lock down a target with life drain, then additional slow would not help Leoric, since Leoric's main source of damage is life drain. On the other hand, getting more sustain with Ossein Renewal grants Leoric more chances to rotate back into fights, since Leoric typically needs high health (30%-50%) to rotate back into fights safely( (in comparison, Artanis, Varian, Anub'arak have their own ways of popping back into fights safely at lower health).  However, an argument for Paralyzing Rage is that it helps Leoric peel for his teammates. This is mentioned in talent description, saying that the talent improved Leoric's CC against melee comps. Yes, that's true. However, the problem is Leoric himself, due to aforementioned mediocre sustain and health, is a pretty easy warrior to shut down, making Leoric a medium-high priority target in teamfights. Paraylzing Rage would help Leoric less than Ossein Renewal in this scenario.

tl;dr Basically, Leoric should focus more on his own survivability rather than the peeling of his allies, so Paraylzing Rage should be lowered to situational; whereas, Ossein Renewal should be promoted to situational.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Trensicourt

[JaWriter 0]

Hiyo!   Level 26 Leoric here, and I wanted to make an appeal that your assessment of Royal Focus.

With additional damage it instantly clears an entire minion bundle starting around level 10 or so.  With the timing on wraith walk and skeletal swing, you are able to instapop and clear lanes at the speed of skill cooldown.  It's one of the strongest lane pressure skills in the game.   There is only a 3 second cooldown when initiated from a "safe" spot, which is more than enough to drop your swing, do a grasp, swing one melle, then wraith walk out if used to initiate a fight or dive to catch someone who is trying to escape.

With extended wraithwalk, you wraith, swing, walk wraith, swing, walk.   You are able to minion push a 2/3rds of a map in approximately 30 seconds (4 uses, 3 cooldowns).  Its a viable choice to quickly reverse lane pressure and makes simul laning on small maps very doable.   I have found I can out siege most lane specialists and quickly return to team fights with it.  "That Leoric - He's everywhere!"

I find that when speed laning I'm able to consistently generate a solid XP lead for my team game after game.   And those teams able to capitalize on it do really well.   Just something to consider, as you posted it's "The worst skill..."  And I find myself preferring this talent over the swing augmentations in all but two maps (Towers and Payload Delivery)

[positiv2 949]

@Trensicourt

About the Royal Focus + Lingering Apparition combo - it works only when initiating a fight. If you are trying to survive during a fight, this combo is nearly useless. Trying to make Leoric a fight initiator is a subpar choice most of the time. 

6-second heal is not really a burst, and the healing effect can be easily outdamaged by strong burst heroes, such as Li-Ming. It's a strong heal, yeah, but I wouldn't call it burst heal. Anyway, the cooldown is too high. Yeah, you will be able to keep it ready for team battles, but that would mean that you do not use it to keep your lane presence. In this case the talents we recommend will be much more useful, and it is the reason they are recommended while Ossein Renewal is not, though against some team compositions, especially those who lack strong poke, Ossein Renewal is a solid pick.

@JaWriter

Wraith Walk should not be used as a dive tool or a way to empower Skeletal Swing with Royal Focus, even with 4 second cooldown, because even a small time window such as this can be used to take you down, or heavily damage you. You are also picking it over talents that can help you tank better, which is Leoric's role. if you need a strong wave clear, draft Sylvanas or Ragnaros instead. 

[Guest Steve]

Royal Focus is 100% a legit build for dualsoak Leoric, especially with 2x support meta and even more so if enemy has Anub.

[positiv2 949]

12 hours ago, Guest Steve said:

Royal Focus is 100% a legit build for dualsoak Leoric, especially with 2x support meta and even more so if enemy has Anub.

If you want to soak, you will need to have self-sustain, which is why you would pick Fealty Unto Death in this situation.

[Guest Steve]

1 hour ago, positiv2 said:

If you want to soak, you will need to have self-sustain, which is why you would pick Fealty Unto Death in this situation.

Fealty is only really needed with single support, Royal Focus lets you double soak a lot faster especially against a push comp when counterpicked and Dehaka is banned out. Game below is a perfect example of an optimal situation to go for the Royal Focus build.

Spoiler

 

 

[KendricSwissh 66]

Hey everyone, 

With the upcoming Kel'thuzad Patch, Leoric will receive a significant update.

Please give me a few days to playtest the new talents in Hero League. The guide will be updated ASAP! 

Cheers,

Kendric

[Fliits 112]

This seemed effective https://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/leoric#gOyK

[Trensicourt 5]

I think Hopelessness is at least situational. There are many situations where there isn't a melee around, forcing Leoric to trade without his Drain Hope. In addition, Hopelessness allows Leoric to rotate back into fights far more safely.

[beldr 0]

There is an error in the Lvl 4 talent discussion, it talks about willing vessel instead of the extra swing range

[positiv2 949]

2 hours ago, beldr said:

There is an error in the Lvl 4 talent discussion, it talks about willing vessel instead of the extra swing range

Thanks. We are aware of the issue, and a fix should come soon-ish. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[VitaminC 12]

Damn, I really like what Blizzard has been doing with talent trees recently. Stukov's, Garrosh's, Kel'Thuzad's are all very diverse and with more freedom of choice, and now these things applied to talent reworks. Almost all the talents seem very strong in right situations, and, sadly, others are generally stronger than others.
Here comes my review of reworked Leoric:

• Lvl 1 would not shy away from taking Fealty Unto Death, because I thought it was the best lvl 4 before, and now it comes even earlier. Lane sustain is uncomarable to other ones. Lanes are very far away or there are just 2 of them? No problem, globe talent is perfect if you can coordinate globe pick-ups, otherwise the healing on swing provides you with nice survivability.
• Lvl 4 - Kneel, Peasants!, purely because waveclear is so important when playing as a laner hero. Also does wonders on Infernal Shrines - apparently, monsters count as well. Slow and range are just as valuable when playing in rotation with your teammates.
• Lvl 7 gives us a fantastic option to choose from good talents, all fulfill different purposes. I find Drain Momentum to be the most versitale, but the range can be pretty good against heavy-ranged teams, so is more healing if you feel like you're getting focused.
• Lvl 10 is still Entomb - a ton of good uses focusing on control and utility. March is very good too, with it you can survive more fights and exploit choke points.
• Lvl 13 Unyielding Despair is a must for follow-up Drain Hope talents. More movement speed procs, more damage and sustain in general. Again, if getting focused too much, armor can be the solid answer. Damage reduction with Wraith Walk can do wonders too if your team just cannot handle the damage that is coming your way.
• Lvl 16's Crushing Hope, I feel like, is the talent where true late-game Leoric's power lies. Especially combined with Entomb, critical autoattacks and team's CC - can chunk down anyone without mobility with ease. Another upgraded Wraith Walk can be concidered when 'playing the map' - double lane soak can still be quite strong on some battlegrounds - structure pressure is real, even better with increased duration that can allow you to rotate much-much quicker. Autoattack speed increase lets you eat tanks and other high-health heroes when paired up with percentage damage talent on the next tier, and it's just so satisfying to see the animation go faster and hear the sound of cracking bones.
• Lvl 20 is where the ultimate choice is given. Burning Despair is by far the most damaging talent and cool-looking right here - huge AoE damage around you that can be increased in uptime with Unyielding Despair. Excellent agains enviroment and, most importantly, enemy heroes, especially ones that like to clump up. Wins you late game teamfights and lets you push/depush with ease.
  Still getting bursted or focused? Protected and upgraded March are your tools. Need to sustain yourself through the enemy's frontline? Excellent choice, healing and more damage on autoattacks is best taken with attack speed talent from the previous tier. Seeking more pick-offs and control? Value of Entomb with silence is just insane for this task.

Overall, I enjoy playing new Leoric. Some people might say that the hero was perfectly fine before and was in no need of rework, and they are probably right. But now, our beloved King has more situational and interesting ways to deal with any sort of problem he may encounter. I just love it.

Edited September 11, 2017 by VitaminC

[positiv2 949]

20 hours ago, VitaminC said:

I thought it was the best lvl 4 before, and now it comes even earlier.

Fealty Unto Death does not provide any permanent effect, unlike quest talents, and does not provide any advantage that would be significantly better at level 1 than level 4. So, the main change from the "old" Fealty Unto Death is that it has to compete with different talents, which can often be a reason the talent is no longer the strongest one in the tier. So - the talent is still strong, but it has to compete with stronger talents now.

[Fliits 112]

I've got an idea; rework Fealty Unto Death like this:

!Quest: minion deaths near Leoric heal him for 1% of his health and give 5 mana. Reward: After activating 100 times, Fealty Unto Death now grants a continuous damage aura (40 + 4% per level) around Leoric. The damage and range of the aura are increased by 100% while Drain Hope is active.

Yes, this is just combining Fealty Unto Death and Burning Despair, but this also makes the immediate damage boost of Burning Despair more usable, as the only reason it shouldn't be picked is because it comes too late in the talent tree. This also makes Fealty Unto Death a more viable choice, since it has been overshadowed by Consume Vitality in almost every aspect since the rework. What can you do to make Ossein Renewal a more viable choice, I wonder?

[SuperKaioken 0]

The pictures in the guide show the recent change to leoric swapping his level 20 talent that grants his autoattacks percent damage and self healing with the level 13 talent that adds armor to Leorics Drain Hope talent. However the discussion portion still shows it as if the changes had not taken place. I request an edit to show this now that autoattack build is now more viable.

 

Guide is still immensely helpful though.

[ShadowerDerek 69]

 

AA build is much more viable now. 

[lChronosl 182]

Just a reminder that the guide was not properly updated after the talent change between Hardened Bones and Spectral Leech.

 

[Guest Big_Gaz]

On 4/16/2019 at 2:22 PM, lChronosl said:

Just a reminder that the guide was not properly updated after the talent change between Hardened Bones and Spectral Leech.

 

Bump!

[Guest Baldur]

I just wanted to point out that the description of Shroud of the Dead King incorrectly states that it's cooldown is 75 seconds instead of it's current 30 second cooldown. I don't know whether it will change the guide but I hope it'll help somewhat.

[positiv2 949]

On 12/23/2019 at 8:16 PM, Guest Baldur said:

I just wanted to point out that the description of Shroud of the Dead King incorrectly states that it's cooldown is 75 seconds instead of it's current 30 second cooldown. I don't know whether it will change the guide but I hope it'll help somewhat.

Thanks. This should be fixed soon.