Zagam

5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

1211 posts in this topic

Awesome guide!

I have been trying to practice demo more often to use in 5.2. One thing I was not sure about was the priority during Bloodlust/Heroism. On some bosses in T14, my guild will use Heroism at the start of the fight. I also use Dark Soul at the start. I read that Touch of Chaos does not benefit from haste. Does this mean ToC spam during hero/lust does not really benefit from the buff at all? Should I change my casting priority in these cases where I have both Dark Soul and hero/lust running?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haste decreases the global cooldown, so you'll be using ToC faster...just has no direct benefit on the spell itself. Consider it the similar affect that melee classes gain from Bloodlust with their increased auto attack speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Zagam,

I've got a question about HoG/CW usage. I know that during the fight you want to use HoG for its DF generation and considerable damage. I was wondering if Chaos Wave should be considered at all during an execute? Some execute phases can last awhile to where you'd get a chance to pop out of meta to use up a HoG charge or two, but would it worth it to use CW to use up a charge if the boss is going to die relatively soon? I realize that 120 DF is a big chunk to be dropping on a CW, but it hits like a truck for an instant cast.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This maybe somewhat of an unorthodox question, but since you all seem like a bunch of nice people I figured I'd ask it anyhow:

Is it fun, demo?

How does it compare to destro and affli, not damagewise, but regarding player-enjoyment.

I realize that this is a subjective question, but your suggestive oppinions are exactly what I'm asking to hear.

I only ever played a warlock till lvl 60 or so, and not at all since MoP, but the class seem really interesting with three very diverse and enjoyable specs.

So please; let me hear your thoughts :)

p.s. Also, Zagam: Wow! The effort you have put into these forums is awe-inspiring! You truely are a man of the people around here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gave that Zagam a like. Zagams love likes.

Always.

Hey Zagam,

I've got a question about HoG/CW usage. I know that during the fight you want to use HoG for its DF generation and considerable damage. I was wondering if Chaos Wave should be considered at all during an execute? Some execute phases can last awhile to where you'd get a chance to pop out of meta to use up a HoG charge or two, but would it worth it to use CW to use up a charge if the boss is going to die relatively soon? I realize that 120 DF is a big chunk to be dropping on a CW, but it hits like a truck for an instant cast.

Thanks

Don't use Chaos Wave unless you need burst on something about to die and the fight is almost over. It's too much of a waste of Demonic Fury. If you're in an execute phase, swap out of Meta, drop two Hand of Guldans to generate extra fury (plus the Shadowflame effect) and pop back into Meta and continue your execute. Chaos Wave is as bad for Demo as Fel Flame is for Affliction. If you read my Aff guides, you know how much I loathe Fel Flame. Same principle here.

This maybe somewhat of an unorthodox question, but since you all seem like a bunch of nice people I figured I'd ask it anyhow:

Is it fun, demo?

How does it compare to destro and affli, not damagewise, but regarding player-enjoyment.

I realize that this is a subjective question, but your suggestive oppinions are exactly what I'm asking to hear.

I only ever played a warlock till lvl 60 or so, and not at all since MoP, but the class seem really interesting with three very diverse and enjoyable specs.

So please; let me hear your thoughts Posted Image

p.s. Also, Zagam: Wow! The effort you have put into these forums is awe-inspiring! You truely are a man of the people around here!

Demo is a blast! At least for me. Some other Warlocks complain about all the things you have to manage, but that's what I find fun about it. Destruction is fun when you get to cleave things and send two Chaos Bolts out at the same time. It's also fun to completely obliterate the meters on numerous add type like fights like Elegon, Heroic Tsulong, etc. Affliction is really boring to me. It was fun to learn, but once you master it, it's just refresh DoTs, use Haunt opportunistically, and use MG or DS depending on target health. Demo is so much more intricate. I know simulations give Demo and Destro a bad touch, but I've been able to perform very similarly on fights as different specs. I did 195k to H Elegon last night as Destruction. I did 175k to Heroic Protectors as Demonology. It's all about just knowing the insides and outsides of your spec and how you can master each fight. If you've never had a Warlock over 60, I recommend you level Demo. If you love it, you'll likely like raiding as Demonology. If you don't and you want a Spriest feel, Affliction has it. If you want a nuke type class, Destruction is what's up. Different strokes for different folks.

Anything I can do to help is worth it in the long run. Glad to be of assistance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came from playing a hunter since TBC (MM) as i hated BM to now im rolling a Demo lock and i love him.I would totally recommend leveling Demo doing 5mans in which case Demo owns with its burst dmg and aoe capabliities ,and with 5.2 coming out raiding with him.I also love to go and do some extreme soloing in older content from cata down to vanilla where getting my 2pc t5 which allows me to keep my demon healed for 15% of the dmg i do makes Demo a great soloing spec moe so than either Aff or Destro imo that is.Like Zagam said though different stroke for different folks ,but try all 3 specs see what you like and feel comfortable playing as that will lend itself to a more enjoyable playing experience .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came from playing a hunter since TBC (MM) as i hated BM to now im rolling a Demo lock and i love him.I would totally recommend leveling Demo doing 5mans in which case Demo owns with its burst dmg and aoe capabliities ,and with 5.2 coming out raiding with him.I also love to go and do some extreme soloing in older content from cata down to vanilla where getting my 2pc t5 which allows me to keep my demon healed for 15% of the dmg i do makes Demo a great soloing spec moe so than either Aff or Destro imo that is.Like Zagam said though different stroke for different folks ,but try all 3 specs see what you like and feel comfortable playing as that will lend itself to a more enjoyable playing experience .

Actually demo is almost the worst spec for soloing right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually demo is almost the worst spec for soloing right now.

Um, no it is not. Not sure what you're doing, but you're not doing it right. Glyph of Health Funnel, Grim of Service: Felguard, and an instant res for your Felguard if he dies every 2 minutes...you can solo anything as Demo easier than Destruction and Affliction. Metamorphosis also gives you a crap ton of survival. Please try not to diss something you haven't tried or gotten good at.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How often should one pop Imp Swarm after the initial pull?

Edit:: And GoService

Edited by Mummer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zagam, i read on MMO Champion if u press HOG and go on META when lands your HOG will be buffed like a chaos wave and will not spend fury and The thread guy said it's important do it every 2nd HOG and shit, what u think about it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JV, I posted that in my guide that it was important to pop into Meta on the 2nd HoG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just registered to say thanks for all the info, I haven't played demonology since early Cata, so this helped ALOT, especially since i'll have to learn how to properly play demo by tuesday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should I be saving Grimoire: Felguard for when Dark Soul is ready or using it off CD? The CD doesn't align with anything. Also, if corruption is about to fall off should I pop into Meta just to refresh it (even if I don't have any procs and Doom doesn't need to be refreshed?).

edit: im retarded.

Edited by Chobani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know why ppl asking questions that are clearly answered in his Post. Imp swarm is an dps loss so dont use it @Mummer, and the thing with GoS is that with tier 15 the cd with GoS and DS is the Same @chobani .read the full thing.

The only thing i would ask for is geming. i know that the stat weights are almost the same but with bis gear etc there sure is some stat that is slightly better that others?

Edited by Azazoth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't calculated stat weights yet. That will be my Sunday gig...I'm quite drunk at the moment and did BGs all night...more to come soon. Also, yes...please read the entire guide and don't just ask questions without reading. I've answered nearly every one of those questions in my guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This guide has some wrong information to say the least...

Imp swarm a dps loss?? it's definately not a dps loss and you should be using it with DS, even if you have 4pc.

Demo's secondary stats are definately not close. You pretty much said it yourself, haste is useless because ToC not affected by haste. You mentioned HoG weaving and that alone pushes mastery ahead of crit by quiet a bit because of the extra damage from shadowflame. Simcraft numbers/weights are way off because of HoG weaving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um, no it is not. Not sure what you're doing, but you're not doing it right. Glyph of Health Funnel, Grim of Service: Felguard, and an instant res for your Felguard if he dies every 2 minutes...you can solo anything as Demo easier than Destruction and Affliction. Metamorphosis also gives you a crap ton of survival. Please try not to diss something you haven't tried or gotten good at.

Demo's personal survival is the worst, destro can amber tap, affliction does more damage than demo while using drain life.Also destro can soul link-amber tap and affliction can sb:hf to heal pet. Glyph of health funnel isn't enough to keep pet alive on hard hitting bosses and if pet dies you can res him instantly as demo but others specs can do that too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another question regarding the openers...

Researching them, I feel as if a lot of people have different openers.

Is it essentially pop Imp Swarm, Corr, HoG, ShadowBolt/SoulFire, then pop Dark soul? I dunno... Lmao.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This guide has some wrong information to say the least...

Imp swarm a dps loss?? it's definately not a dps loss and you should be using it with DS, even if you have 4pc.

Demo's secondary stats are definately not close. You pretty much said it yourself, haste is useless because ToC not affected by haste. You mentioned HoG weaving and that alone pushes mastery ahead of crit by quiet a bit because of the extra damage from shadowflame. Simcraft numbers/weights are way off because of HoG weaving.

Rather than saying 'everything is wrong,' why don't you provide some information to back your claim? I use simulation programs and personal testing to prove that Imp Swarm is a sustained DPS loss. You're making a claim that you should delay Dark Soul with its 4pc bonus until Imp Swarm is up? I'd love to see your logs and how well you rank on fights.

Also, your focus on secondary stats is worthless. They never have any meaningful production because swinging one stat for another can maybe change your DPS by 1,000. I would guess that you are not in one of the top 10 guilds in the world, so finding that extra 1k DPS isn't going to bring you anything useful.

Haste is not entirely useful or wasteful because your Metamorphosis uptime will be about 35-40%. The other 60% of the time, Haste will shorten the cast time of Shadowbolt and Soulfire increasing your DF generation. An understanding of how everything works together (the big picture) rather than small, individual pieces doesn't really offer anything.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another question regarding the openers...

Researching them, I feel as if a lot of people have different openers.

Is it essentially pop Imp Swarm, Corr, HoG, ShadowBolt/SoulFire, then pop Dark soul? I dunno... Lmao.

Should not be using a Shadowbolt/Soulfire before Dark Soul and Meta. Imp Swarm is a personal choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demo's personal survival is the worst, destro can amber tap, affliction does more damage than demo while using drain life.Also destro can soul link-amber tap and affliction can sb:hf to heal pet. Glyph of health funnel isn't enough to keep pet alive on hard hitting bosses and if pet dies you can res him instantly as demo but others specs can do that too.

It really sounds like you haven't played Demo to a high level when trying to solo. I find it far easier and I highly doubt I'm terrible at Destruction or Affliction. If you want to test your theory, go try the Brawlers Guild as Destro or Aff then try it as Demo using a Voidlord to tank for you. It will be so different that you'll change the whistle of your tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demo's personal survival is the worst, destro can amber tap, affliction does more damage than demo while using drain life.Also destro can soul link-amber tap and affliction can sb:hf to heal pet. Glyph of health funnel isn't enough to keep pet alive on hard hitting bosses and if pet dies you can res him instantly as demo but others specs can do that too.

I'm not sure if you're playing demo right, but in my experience (2 warlocks, 1 at 90), demo has the best personal survival out of all of the specs, especially for multiple targets. Demo form alone makes you pretty unstoppable, not to mention you have health funnel/pet tanking everything. You really can't compete with that.

Edited by Pattymayo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Treylawny
      <Trust> may be what you're looking for if you enjoy killing internet dragons with a group of like minded players! Currently we are 8/9 Heroic, soon to be stepping into Mythic ToS. We are recruiting to finish rounding out our raid team. <Trust> is located on the [US] Doomhammer/Baelgun pve servers, alliance side! Check us out!
       
      About Us:
      <Trust> is a recently formed guild, founded by a group of long time players that have been raiding together for a couple of years now. Founded out of a desire to continue raiding in a casual-progression manner, we work towards defeating mythic bosses. <Trust> is a raiding guild, first and foremost.
       
      Our Raids:
      <Trust> maintains a progression-oriented 2-day semi-casual raiding team. That's 'semi' as in we expect our team members to always prioritize life first; but not 'casual' as in we take downing bosses less seriously. We strive to maintain a balance of taking our progression raids seriously while having plenty of laughs along the way.
       
      Raid Schedule:
      Tuesday & Thursday: 5p – 8p server (8p – 11p eastern)
      Friday(optional): 5p – 8p server (8p – 11p eastern)
       
      Recruitment:
      <Trust> is looking for full time Resto Druid, Mages, Hunters, and Warlocks for our raid team. We are also open for good people to join as casual players, pvpers, with the option to join farm content or alt raids.
       
      More Info:
      Feel free to reach out to us:
      Recruitment Officer:
      In game - Treylawny
      Battletag - Treylawny#1813
       
      Guild Lead:
      In game – Oleic
      Battletag - Jarg#1591
       
      -OR-
       
      Website and Application: <Trust> (US)Doomhammer/Baelgun
      (The app is quick and painless as its used primarily to get your name to us quickly!)
       
      Discord is our way of communicating during raid; also used for casual chatting!
       
    • By molodirazz
      All applications will be reviewed and considered however if you are playing a class/spec combination we need then your chances of joining will be higher.
      A little bit of info about us:
      We are a group of friends and serious raiders on EU Twisting Nether looking to recruit skilled like-minded players into our roster for Mythic Legion raids and onwards. We will offer a sociable and fun raiding environment while maintaining a strong desire for progression. Our Discord is very active and we encourage all members to chat and play together not only for raids. The guild formed late March 2016 and fully cleared 13/13 Mythic Hellfire Citadel pre nerf shortly after. We've since been improving our world ranking every tier.
      We currently raid 3 days per week on Mythic: Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday 19:15-22:15 server time. While it is not a lot we try to make the most out of our time. We run optional heroic/normal/alt/previous tier raids during off days in which raiders are welcome to come to. Our members also play other games outside raid times together where anyone is welcome to join(LoL, Dota, HotS, Overwatch etc.).
      Our loot system for Mythic is RC Loot Council.
      What we expect from you:
      - We are a raiding guild with only a 9 hour per week schedule so you are expected to attend and be ON TIME! However we understand things can come up sometimes but please let us know.
      - Be able to speak and understand the English language and not be afraid to communicate with other members during raids.
      - Actively doing dungeons/world quests to improve your gear and artifact weapon.
      - Have a strong understanding of the current raid tier and be able to play your class to it's potential.
      - Always come to raids prepared(i.e. bringing food and potions, etc).
      - Come fully gemmed and enchanted with the correct stats for your class and spec.
      - Access to Discord and a working microphone.
      - Have a computer that can handle 20 man raiding and a good, stable internet connection.
      - Exorsus Raid Tools, Weakauras2 and RC Loot Council addons installed. We may ask you to install others.

      If you have any further questions please contact us at battletags: Vims#21684 Azkey#21565
      To apply please visit our guild website: http://asylum-tn.enjin.com/recruitment
      __________________________________________________________________________
      Requirements to be considered into current main raids:
      - 920~ ilvl
      - 52+ traits.
      - 3/9 in ToS.
      - Exceptions to the requirements may be made..
      _____________________________________________________________________________
      We're currently looking for the classes below but may consider other classes as well.
      Death Knight: Blood.
      Druid: Guardian and Balance.
      Hunter: MM/BM.
      Monk: Brewmaster.
      Rogue: Open.
      Warlock: Open.
      Any and all applications will be considered.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Zoo Warlock Deck List Guide.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Lakkari Sacrifice Warlock Quest Deck List Guide.