Damien

New Class Guide Format: Feedback Needed!

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We've recently recruited Furty from the guild Serenity to write a number of our class guides. The first step was to come up with an improved class guide format that would be more fitted to Furty's vast knowledge of the game at the highest level of content. The result of this work was a revamp of our Destruction Warlock guide to showcase the new format and we would like to hear your thoughts on it.

The biggest changes are the addition of a boss by boss walkthrough for Hellfire Citadel and a complete rewrite of the rotation and gearing page.

  • The boss by boss walkthrough includes summed-up strategies, tips and tricks, trinket and talent usage for each boss of Hellfire Citadel.
  • The rotation page is now geared specifically towards Hellfire Citadel progression. With Legion, expect that section to cater to both players who are raiding Mythic content and the more casual crowd. It's just that with Hellfire Citadel having been released almost a year ago, the current focus for most PvE players these days is to finish clearing.
  • The gearing page now features a proper BiS list as well as a lengthy trinket discussion, followed by a simulation chart that we've been working on with Azortharion (our Hunter writer).

The goal is to eventually have all class guides written by players of Furty's caliber (he himself will write Mage, Rogue, Shaman, and Warlock guides). We wanted to start small with just one writer and expand the team after the launch of Legion (delegating class guides is a very new thing for us and we want to make sure we get it right). That said, we've already recruited Azortharion to write our Hunter guides in Legion, using the same format. He's been reviewing our Hunter guides for several years now and since he's also writing his own guides (and has been very successful at it), we felt it would make more sense if he just took over the Hunter guides.

So, any thoughts on the new class guide format?

We're recruiting top players to write our class guides and we're interested in your feedback on the new format we'll be using!

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I have always love your guides, but sometimes it felt outdated, the format was (in some cases) not ideal and some missing info (boss by boss guide). This is what it should look like! Good job! Really nice

Edited by Ardkin
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Just one comment here: The boss by boss walkthrough would imo be even more useful if it had a better overview per boss. All the info given is excellent but when I'm about to venture into my first few Hellfires as a DPS Warlock I will want to quickly check this guide for pointers. Having the strategies as one big block of text everytime makes it harder to quickly find what you need/forgot. For me it would be better if either spaced out more or listed.
 Example:

Quote

5. Kilrogg Deadeye

This encounter can change significantly depending on whether you are sent into the visions phase or not. While you are upstairs, you will want to pay attention to the add spawn and Heartseeker timers to take advantage of early Havoc IconHavoc. Always keep an Ember in reserve when adds are active for execute Ember return. Place a Demonic Gateway IconDemonic Gateway from the ranged pile to the Heartseeker drop location. Leave your Demonic Circle: Summon IconDemonic Circle: Summon in the ranged pile so you can immediately portal back if the Heartseeker targets you. If you are sent downstairs into visions you will want to make sure you are high on Embers as you are sent down. For the first set of three imps, you will want to cast Havoc IconHavoc then Chaos Bolt IconChaos Bolt, then a second Chaos Bolt IconChaos Bolt, and finally a Shadowburn IconShadowburn to finish off an imp and get your Embers back. Once the adds start flowing out en masse, switch over to Fire and Brimstone IconFire and Brimstone, making sure to clean up low adds with Shadowburn IconShadowburn to keep your Embers high. You will want to finish your visions phase with a few Embers ready to go. Fragment of the Dark Star IconFragment of the Dark Star is extremely potent on this fight if you are able to get your full visions buff before the boss dies, as you will essentially have a permanent 20% bonus to chaos bolt damage during this time. This scales up with the buff much better than other trinkets that provide passive intellect or a spell damage proc (For example, Prophecy of Fear IconProphecy of Fear).

vs

Quote

5. Kilrogg Deadeye

This encounter can change significantly depending on whether you are sent into the visions phase or not.

While you are upstairs:
 - You will want to pay attention to the add spawn and Heartseeker timers to take advantage of early Havoc IconHavoc.
 - Always keep an Ember in reserve when adds are active for execute Ember return.
 - Place a Demonic Gateway IconDemonic Gateway from the ranged pile to the Heartseeker drop location. Leave your Demonic Circle: Summon IconDemonic Circle: Summon in the ranged pile so you can immediately portal back if the Heartseeker targets you.

If you are sent downstairs into visions:
 - You will want to make sure you are high on Embers as you are sent down.
 - For the first set of three imps, you will want to cast Havoc IconHavoc then Chaos Bolt IconChaos Bolt, then a second Chaos Bolt IconChaos Bolt, and finally a Shadowburn IconShadowburn to finish off an imp and get your Embers back.
 - Once the adds start flowing out en masse, switch over to Fire and Brimstone IconFire and Brimstone, making sure to clean up low adds with Shadowburn IconShadowburn to keep your Embers high.
 - You will want to finish your visions phase with a few Embers ready to go. Fragment of the Dark Star IconFragment of the Dark Star is extremely potent on this fight if you are able to get your full visions buff before the boss dies, as you will essentially have a permanent 20% bonus to chaos bolt damage during this time. This scales up with the buff much better than other trinkets that provide passive intellect or a spell damage proc (For example, Prophecy of Fear IconProphecy of Fear).

 

Other than that though I think it looks great; very informative and detailed guide. Looking forward to a mage one!

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I have just signed in icy-veins to reply to this thread. I'm a casual Wow player that only do some LFR runs because I can't assign enough time to play more seriously at higher levels. I don't know if this is the type of the majority of icy-veins' visitors. Although I occasionally do raids via LFR, I'm always want to do better damage trying to understand better my class.  

I tried to follow the new warlock guide and became overwhelmed mostly in the rotation section. There is too much information to digest and abandoned soon. For me it will be easier another approach: start with a basic and simple rotation and then, progressively introduce more concepts in it, with some auras code to track things for example.... This will allow to avoid the step learning curve you offer.

Perhaps I'm a minority here, but I needed to say it.

Have fun!

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Stratos said:

I have just signed in icy-veins to reply to this thread. I'm a casual Wow player that only do some LFR runs because I can't assign enough time to play more seriously at higher levels. I don't know if this is the type of the majority of icy-veins' visitors. Although I occasionally do raids via LFR, I'm always want to do better damage trying to understand better my class.  

I tried to follow the new warlock guide and became overwhelmed mostly in the rotation section. There is too much information to digest and abandoned soon. For me it will be easier another approach: start with a basic and simple rotation and then, progressively introduce more concepts in it, with some auras code to track things for example.... This will allow to avoid the step learning curve you offer.

Perhaps I'm a minority here, but I needed to say it.

Have fun!

Regardless of whether or not you are a minority, you are still part of the IV community :) I'm sure we can see what can be done to deal with this. Thanks for the feedback!

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Reading it as someone currently on M progression this read wonderfully to me. While Destro Lock is not the most applicable to me, the style I think really worked. Having the rotation change based on what boxes are ticked is a much more efficient way to learn a new class with the intent of raiding with it, and an in-depth discussion of trinkets is I think a vital aspect of a good gearing site. I could see it being a bit overwhelming for a new player, so maybe having a box indicating the very basic rotation might be nice if you're looking to offer that! I do think that keeping the advice for fights limited to just what that class can focus on is the right approach. My favorite Rshaman site doesn't lay out everything the boss does, just what to focus on specific to your class to maximize performance. No need to write out the boss guide for every class, just the little tips for specific mechanics. But that's just my preference!

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16 hours ago, Stratos said:

I have just signed in icy-veins to reply to this thread. I'm a casual Wow player that only do some LFR runs because I can't assign enough time to play more seriously at higher levels. I don't know if this is the type of the majority of icy-veins' visitors. Although I occasionally do raids via LFR, I'm always want to do better damage trying to understand better my class.  

I tried to follow the new warlock guide and became overwhelmed mostly in the rotation section. There is too much information to digest and abandoned soon. For me it will be easier another approach: start with a basic and simple rotation and then, progressively introduce more concepts in it, with some auras code to track things for example.... This will allow to avoid the step learning curve you offer.

Perhaps I'm a minority here, but I needed to say it.

Have fun!

 

 

We'll include something more basic. Maybe not right now, but for Legion, there definitely will be a basic rotation :)

7 hours ago, Rag said:

Reading it as someone currently on M progression this read wonderfully to me. While Destro Lock is not the most applicable to me, the style I think really worked. Having the rotation change based on what boxes are ticked is a much more efficient way to learn a new class with the intent of raiding with it, and an in-depth discussion of trinkets is I think a vital aspect of a good gearing site. I could see it being a bit overwhelming for a new player, so maybe having a box indicating the very basic rotation might be nice if you're looking to offer that! I do think that keeping the advice for fights limited to just what that class can focus on is the right approach. My favorite Rshaman site doesn't lay out everything the boss does, just what to focus on specific to your class to maximize performance. No need to write out the boss guide for every class, just the little tips for specific mechanics. But that's just my preference!

Thanks for the feedback :) Are you saying that the boss by boss stuff is too detailed?

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On 5/29/2016 at 5:27 AM, Damien said:

Thanks for the feedback :) Are you saying that the boss by boss stuff is too detailed?

Oh no I think it's perfect, the website I'm referring to mainly focuses on mythic rshaman guides so they're even less general, but I think that this is a great balance. Specific spell usage to maximize dps or utility for particular aspects, rather than a full layout of the fight and what to do during every second of it. (Exaggeration of course) I think that it's good for people to look up the fights themselves and understand all of the mechanics, or at least any they can expect to handle, and then have a more specific guide to get at some of the fine tuning; the boss by boss section does a good job of the latter! I think as of right now that aspect is split between specific class sites, you guys message boards, and while I'm a touch on the obsessive side so I don't mind sifting through everything, having that class specific aid for each fight is what can really strengthen a raider's usefulness on a team especially into higher end content. Also you start to notice some of how to really leverage your class and then when things start to go ends up you understand more and more of how you can stay alive, kite, burn a particularly nasty add,or buy the raid those few extra crucial seconds!

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41 minutes ago, Rag said:

Oh no I think it's perfect, the website I'm referring to mainly focuses on mythic rshaman guides so they're even less general, but I think that this is a great balance. Specific spell usage to maximize dps or utility for particular aspects, rather than a full layout of the fight and what to do during every second of it. (Exaggeration of course) I think that it's good for people to look up the fights themselves and understand all of the mechanics, or at least any they can expect to handle, and then have a more specific guide to get at some of the fine tuning; the boss by boss section does a good job of the latter! I think as of right now that aspect is split between specific class sites, you guys message boards, and while I'm a touch on the obsessive side so I don't mind sifting through everything, having that class specific aid for each fight is what can really strengthen a raider's usefulness on a team especially into higher end content. Also you start to notice some of how to really leverage your class and then when things start to go ends up you understand more and more of how you can stay alive, kite, burn a particularly nasty add,or buy the raid those few extra crucial seconds!

Cool, thanks! We also plan on adding a TLDR section at the beginning of the guide, much like we do with Heroes of the Storm guides.

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just glancing at the guide I felt a bit overwhelmed until I looked a bit closer. I have to say I love the whole check box thing that can lead to progressive rotations. Have item X rotation changes this way, have X adds rotation changes this way. Very nice that you can check box your respective situation simply because gear can have such a strong impact on rotation.

That being said I feel that should also be the case for the talents page. Many times a talent is only viable with say a certain stat percentage or certain trinket or set bonus.

Also going into legion at least at the beginning, it almost seems there would need to be an overwhelming about of check boxes. With the various legendary items (we only get one at first) there will be a ton of choices. Now of course we will eventually min max out the best one. However, with the randomness of the drops its very likely RNGesus will be displeased with many of us and we'll be stuck with legendary X for maybe even the entire xpac. 

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What I always find missing, is stat weights.

ANY site out there can assemble a chain of, say, Mastery>=Haste>Crit>>>Versa and so on, but when it comes to actually using this sort of info, you NEED some values, Ideally taken down to primary stat worth 1. Then, If I see Mastery at 0,5 Haste at 0.4 and Crit at 0.2, I can make real decisions, because swapping items around isn't usually simple.

To give an idea, say, I swap item, I get +12 main stat, +12 haste +12 Crit, +12 Versatility, but loose 50 Mastery. Is it worth it, or not?

I know this will change from scenario to scenario, but the same is true for general stat priority, so whatever - as long as it's close, it's usable.

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On 6/1/2016 at 11:00 AM, JanInCognito said:

What I always find missing, is stat weights.

ANY site out there can assemble a chain of, say, Mastery>=Haste>Crit>>>Versa and so on, but when it comes to actually using this sort of info, you NEED some values, Ideally taken down to primary stat worth 1. Then, If I see Mastery at 0,5 Haste at 0.4 and Crit at 0.2, I can make real decisions, because swapping items around isn't usually simple.

To give an idea, say, I swap item, I get +12 main stat, +12 haste +12 Crit, +12 Versatility, but loose 50 Mastery. Is it worth it, or not?

I know this will change from scenario to scenario, but the same is true for general stat priority, so whatever - as long as it's close, it's usable.

This information is all included in the updated guide, along with an equation of how to accurately weigh upgrades relative to each other.

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I appreciate your guides particularly when helping new players or checking on something for a class I don't play.  It would be helpful if you specify for what gear levels you are referring in the guide for picking talents and such.  Sometimes (at least as heals) you pick different talents at lower or highest levels (due to trinkets, tier, spirit,...).  Including all these things would be lengthy at best so just making folks aware that rotation/talents/... may vary above or below xxx-xxx would be helpful.

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Hi, 

I use your guides for all of my WoW toons. 

I recently started a Pandaren Monk for a change of pace and I had a look at the levelling guides you guys have for some research  

I'd never used your levelling guides before and I found the Monk levelling guide to be a great resource as it guides you through levelling from Lvl 1-100 and is very helpful. 

Out of curiosity, I went to check out the other levelling guides and I found out they only cover Lvls 85-100, but the monk one is the only one that covers Lvls 1-100.. Why is this? 

I guess my suggestion for your new format of class guides would be to add in Levelling guides covering Lvls 1-100 for every class. I believe this would be an invaluable resource for new players and for veteran players rolling a new class that they've never used before! 

Anyways, keep up the good work! You're invaluable! :) 

Thanks, 

Kallidus :) 

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      Patch 7.3.5 contains files for Allied Races, giving Blizzard the opportunity to enable them at any time after the patch goes live. During PTR testing, we looked at unlock requirements, special Heritage Armor, racials, tabards, and unlock scenarios. Four Allied Races will be available before Battle for Azeroth launches. Dark Iron Dwarves and Zandalari Trolls are gated behind the new expansion's campaign. We still have no information about their class options, but in a Q/A, Blizzard mentioned they are exploring the option to allow Dark Iron Dwarves to be Death Knights and Zandalari Trolls will be able to roll Druids.
      Unlock Requirements
      You must purchase Battle for Azeroth and have an existing character of at least level 110 on the destination realm of your Allied Race character. Allied Races are also gated behind reputation and various achievements. All requirements are account-wide.


      Heritage Armor
      Level up an Allied Race character from 20 to 110 and unlock special account-wide armor that's not restricted by type.

      Highmountain Tauren Druid Forms
      Highmountain Tauren have unique Druid forms. In our preview, we looked at their travel, cat, bear and flight forms!

      Mounts
      Four new racial mounts have been added for Allied Races. Check them out!

      Racials
      Explore new Racial abilities and passives available to Allied Races!

      Tabards
      We datamined four tabards for Allied Races and a new tabard from Pet Battles (Master Trainer's Tabard).

      Alleria & Turalyon Reunion
      After a bittersweet victory on Argus, Alleria & Turalyon return back to Azeroth.

      Dalaran Mailroom Quest Guide for Patch 7.3.5
      A new quest line is available in Patch 7.3.5. Pet collectors will be interested in the Mailemental pet and a portable mailbox (Katy's Stampwhistle) always comes in handy!

      Flying Changes in Patch 7.3.5
      You can now fly in Eastern Kingdoms, Kalimdor, Pandaria, Northrend and Deepholm just by purchasing Expert Riding.

      Legendary Items in Patch 7.3.5
      While there are no new Legendaries in Patch 7.3.5, you can now purchase an item for 175 Wakening Essences that allows spec-based Legendary item targeting.

      The devs also posted additional clarifications for the Purified Titan Essence token.

      New Companion Pets
      A new Pet Battle meta-achievement and two new companions can be earned in 7.3.5.

      New Hunter Pet Tames
      Hunters can tame new pets in Patch 7.3.5. Find out more by visiting the link below!

      New Zones
      Blizzard added new Allied Races Scenarios, faction embassies and there's even a scenario for Uuna! Please note that these Scenarios haven't been tested on PTR.
      Allied Races & Uuna Scenarios
      A preview of Fate's Veil, Forge of Aeons and other zones added in Patch 7.3.5.

      Faction Embassies
      Faction embassies have been added to Orgrimmar and Stormwind. They serve for recruiting Allied Races; almost all faction leaders can be found there. Additionally, Baine Bloodhoof, Saurfang, Trade Prince Gallywix and Nathanos all received new models.

      Faction Embassies Preview #2
      Our second preview focuses on changes to embassies throughout 7.3.5 testing.

      Nightborne Hub (Uninstanced Nighthold)
      The uninstanced version of the Nighthold has been updated with new NPCs and portals. Pandaren are teaching the Nightborne the way of the Monk and more!
       
      Legion Epilogue
      Both factions have established base camps in Silithus. Will the price of victory be the very lifeblood of Azeroth?

      Ogmot the Mad Foreshadowing Riddles
      Ogmot the Mad is a new rare mob that can be found in Silithus. He drops Journal of Ogmot the Mad, where we learn how eager he is to become the vessel of the Old Gods. The journal has ten pages and covers interesting events.

      Seething Shore Battleground
      The new battleground is located off the coast of Silithus. It's a resource battle and both factions need to collect Azerite nodes to claim victory.

      Trial of Style Season 2 Rewards
      A couple of new items and rewards have been added to the Trial of Style micro-holiday. New sets cost Trial of Style Tokens.

      Ulduar Timewalking
      Ulduar is the second Timewalking raid, available during Wrath Timewalking. Defeating Algalon now rewards both titles (Observed) and completing the Ulduar raid achievements both mounts (Glory of the Ulduar Raider). There are probably no plans to introduce a transmoggable Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings and the raid now has a single difficulty.

      Vicious War Fox Mount
      The PvP mount datamined back in Patch 7.3 is finally available for 1 Vicious Saddle.

      Zone Scaling
      A highly anticipated feature of 7.3.5 is the introduction of zone scaling. Zones have level caps, difficulty and quest rewards scale with your level. At level 58, you can choose between Outland or Northrend, at level 80 it becomes a choice between Cataclysm zones & Pandaria. Find out more about zone scaling below!

      Zone Caps
      In addition to zone scaling, all zones now have chapters and completing a fixed number of quests is no longer required for Loremaster achievements.

    • By Stan

      The Postmaster has an important job for you! Check out our guide for the Postmaster quest chain of Patch 7.3.5.
      A new quest line is started by looting Lost Mail in Dalaran in Patch 7.3.5. Earn a pet, the Postmaster title, and a portable mailbox on a 3-hour cooldown!
      To learn more about Patch 7.3.5 check out our content hub here.
      Prerequisites
      The quest is started by looting Lost Mail that spawns every two hours at the mailbox near the stairs to the Violet Citadel (Dalaran). Alternatively, players that have completed the quest line will have a tradable Lost Mail in their inventory.

      Note: The quest chain can only be started after you either loot Lost Mail, or get one from other players that have completed the The Total Package achievement.
      Quest Chain
      Lost Mail
      Lost Mail is started by looting Lost Mail. The first objective is to deliver the Lost Mail to Madam Goya in Dalaran Underbelly. She's at the Black Market Auction House. If there i a lot of PvP going on, it's a good idea to hire an Underbelly Guard for 5 minutes from Raethan for 5 Gold.
      Next go to a mailbox. You will receive the following letter from the Postmaster:
      Dear <Name>,
      It has come to my attention that you handled the delivery of a missing parcel. For that, you have my gratitude! We are in somewhat of a crunch here in the mailroom, and I have need of a capable courier. If you are interested, please visit my office. You will find the entrance behind the Magus Commerce Exchange.
      The mailroom can be accessed by clicking the Mail Tube (flower pot) near the pet graveyard. You will be teleported to the mailroom and the Postmaster will have a new quest for you.

      Return to Sender
      Accept Return to Sender and return 9 Rejected Letters that have broken loose in the mailroom.

      A Huge Package
      For the next quest, you need to deliver 1,362 pieces of solid stone to the Ethereal Portal in Dalaran. Heft the solid stone in the mailroom, use the Mail Tube to return back to Dalaran and deliver the stone to the Ethereal Portal near the Antonidas Statue in Dalaran. After picking up the stone, you will only be able to walk really slowly (Encumbered), but abilities like Blink or Sprint can still help you to move faster for a brief period of time. At the portal you learn that Nexus-Prince Haramad is mad, because he received another delivery of the blasted stone. Return back to the mailroom to turn in the quest.

      Priority Delivery
      An adventurer of another time has forgotten to loot Invincible's Reins from the Lich King. Use the mailroom portal to the Frozen Throne to recover it, go to Steam Pools in Feralas and find Johnny Awesome. The fastest way to get there is by using the portal hub in Dalaran to teleport to the nearest city or Cataclysm portals in Stormwind / Orgrimmar.

      Service with a Smile
      You find out that Johnny already looted the steed during his raid last week and he orders you to sell Invincible's Reins to Gott Weedlespan in Feralas. 
      Note: During PTR testing, we found out that Gott Weedlespan is hostile to everyone that is at war / hated with Gadgetzan. We can't verify, if Blizzard already fixed this bug, but you simply can't sell Invincible's Reins to him. If you worked toward Avast Ye, Admiral! last year to purchase the Jolly Roger toy, chances are you are still hated by the Bilgewater Cartel and cannot continue the quest chain until a hotfix is released.

      Anyway, Gott gives you Bulging Sack of Gold in exchange for Invincible's Reins. Return back to Johnny to turn in the quest.
      Due Reward
      Go to the Sludge Fields in Hillsbrad Foothills and place Twinkles' favorite toy by his grave in honor of his memory. Teleport back to Dalaran and go back to the mailroom.

      The Mail Must Flow
      Help the Postmaster sort at least 15 leters within 60 seconds. Speak to the Postmaster to start the mini-game. 6 mail tubes appear with names of the continents (Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, Outland, Northrend, Pandaria, Broken Isles). Letters with addresses (zones) will appear at the botom of your screen and you must match letters with the correct mail tube.

      Examples: Cosmowrench, Netherstorm > Outland, The Argent Stand, Zul'Drak > Northrend, Astranaar, Ashenvale > Kalimdor, Deliverance Point, Broken Shore > Broken Isles, Altar of Sha'tar, Shadowmoon Valley > Outland, Gadgetzan, Tanaris > Kalimdor, Conquest Hold, Grizzly Hills > Northrend.
      At this point, we had two letters from the Postmaster in the mailbox. The latest one rewarded a Bulging Package that contained Katy's Stampwhistle, a tradable Lost Mail and 24 Solid Stone.
      Completing The Mail Must Flow quest grants the The Total Package achievement. After completing the quest, you can start the mini-game again and sort 30 letters in one minute to receive the Priority Mail achievement that grants the Postmaster title and the Mailemental companion pet.
      The pet has the following flavor text:
      "The Postmaster is often described as esoteric, mystical, even inexplicable. For the precious little known about the enigmatic mail-master, perhaps none outside of the wax seal can confirm the existence of the fantastical letter-loving Mailemental."

      Abillities
      Package Drop Snail Mail Return to Sender Express Delivery Junk Mail Hate Mail