Marksmanship Hunter 7.3

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/10/2017 at 6:38 PM, KergeKacsa said:

I think the linked pawn strings didn't get updated for 7.1.5: http://pastebin.com/EpdZ5Y3D
I says it was updated in november.
Could he update it too? :)

They are in the guide now.

On 1/10/2017 at 6:38 PM, KergeKacsa said:

In Opener Sequence he wrote: "Windburst from as far away as possible." Why is the distance part, I can't see anything related to it.

This is due to travel time of WB, meaning you can force your AS to hit immediately after.

On 1/10/2017 at 6:38 PM, KergeKacsa said:

On normal sequence, should we shoot Marked shot even if we already got Vulnerable (from Windburst for example)?
Wouldn't be better if we shoot Aimed Shot1s, and we shot Marked Shot only after the previus Vulnerable wears off and we got enough Focus again and thus maximize Vulnerable duration?

From the guide:

Quote

Cast  Marked Shot only when  Vulnerable is NOT up, or when you know that you will be unable to fit another  Aimed Shot inside the current Vulnerable debuff.

Hope this helps.

[Valks 2,373]

On 1/10/2017 at 7:31 PM, Aarath said:

So, in Aarath terms, the whole time we do not have the vulnerable debuff up we are building the focus for it? No more focusing on rolling the vulnerable debuff to the best of our ability?

I mean, this is essentially due to the fact that you are in a position where the number of Vuln procs is hugely increased, so you wont need as intensive management of the debuff uptime.

[Valks 2,373]

8 hours ago, Vuda said:

Is SimCraft even considering that you have Blasting Cap on? I set SC to multi-target and in results I don't see Bursting Shot used even once. Do I have to switch skill priority manually? If so, how?

If you want to swap things, I believe you have to manually insert lines of code that tell the program when to use an ability, essentially.

[Valks 2,373]

7 hours ago, KergeKacsa said:

Pawn strings got updated, but it seems wrong to me.

I can't explain it much more than that Azor will have tested these extensively to ensure that they are correct for the current patch, even after the secondary changes. It might be surprising, for sure, but it will have been checked through extensive simming/maths/testing.

[Valks 2,373]

8 hours ago, Guest Skytten said:

I think there's been a typo in the opening rotation. Just tried with 13% haste and there's no way you can get out 4x aimed shots in the vulnerable window after casting marked shot with trueshot active. You can do it with windburst since windburst has traveltime so the vulnerable debuff is delayed so you can start pre-casting an aimed shot. But it's not possible after a marked shot since it's instant.

Where are you seeing this in the opener? I see 2 AS (3 with BL) after MS.

[Valks 2,373]

7 hours ago, Armorphis said:

What shell we do with several marked shot procs until reaching 115 focus. Simply ignore it, spam AS till 115 focus, or is it the same output to follow up each procs. It happened so extremely often, that I got several procs during spamming AS....additional I have Zevrim´s Hunger legendary where you recommend to simple use it. Summary I am little confused about the marked shots proc situation and how to handle it in a usefull way.

Quote from guide:

Quote

It does not change your rotation in any meaningful way, and you should simply spam the extra Marked Shots that it gives you back-to-back.

Hope this helps.

[Valks 2,373]

6 hours ago, Hack said:

Do you toggle Volley off for bosses/single target or do you just keep it active all the time? (is it a ST boost?).

Yes, it is.

[Valks 2,373]

6 hours ago, Guest Souin said:

Ok no clue if that is a bug or it has smth to do with the 4 pc setbonus from Nighthold, BUT:

 

I just tested the AoE Specc and it comes nowhere close to the old "AoE" specc with barrage and sidewinders. My ilvl is around 880 and I tested it together with an 890 geared hunter. He did sustain 600k AoE with the new specc and 1,6mio with the old one.

No bugs, just nerfs.

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Guest Lagboot said:

I know it is a work in progress, but I think we should have 3 seperate guides within the guide for all 3 tier 7 talents. It would make the rotations clearer.

I'm not quite sure how this would help, honestly. There is an incredible amount of overlap.

As for your comments on the Sidewinder build, I can't really present feedback to Azor without seeing plain information. You've Sidewinders is king, but haven't given any information to show that this is the case.

Please feel free to add more info and logs, testing, sims etc. to show what you mean. At this point, I don't really have anything to give him to support what you've said.

[Valks 2,373]

2 hours ago, Metztli said:

Do you still use barrage if not what is your replacement ?

Barrage is simply weaker than the two alternatives currently unless you need spread AoE. ST - AMOC, stacked AoE - Volley.

[KergeKacsa 0]

It seems to me, that the guide changes quite rapidly. :)

When I asked the pawn strings, they were the old, so yes, when you answered, they were updated.

But based on your two replies ("Where are you seeing this in the opener? " and your quote from the guide ("It does not change your rotation in any meaningful way, and you should simply spam the extra Marked Shots that it gives you back-to-back." which I doesn't see anywhere atm, but say the opposite, to just shoot Marked shot just when Vulnerable is not present) even you can't follow it :D

So, I got another question, which may be answered already in the near future. :)

Azo says this atm:

• If  Windburst becomes available during one of these periods, use it immediately and generate focus with Arcane Shot afterwards. Then, towards the end of the  Vulnerable window, cast the 2 Aimed Shots with roughly 4 seconds remaining on  Vulnerable.
• When you get a proc: →  Marked Shot → Keep Cast  Arcane Shot once (twice with extremely high Haste) so that there is only ~4 seconds remaining on Vulnerable → 2x  Aimed Shots.

 

Why use arcane shot and just 2 Aimed shot, while starting from max foxus we could cast 3 Aimed shot in he Vulnerable-window without any Arcane shot. (And start to generate focus with arcane shot after Vulnerable wore off.)

 

[Valks 2,373]

10 minutes ago, KergeKacsa said:

When I asked the pawn strings, they were the old, so yes, when you answered, they were updated.

They just didn't point back to the guide from the pastebin. They were already in the guide page since a few days ago. The only recent change today was a removal of the Haste cap.

5 minutes ago, KergeKacsa said:

But based on your two replies ("Where are you seeing this in the opener? " and your quote from the guide ("It does not change your rotation in any meaningful way, and you should simply spam the extra Marked Shots that it gives you back-to-back." which I doesn't see anywhere atm, but say the opposite, to just shoot Marked shot just when Vulnerable is not present) even you can't follow it :)

The quote is from the legendaries section. You asked a question about a legendary specific rotation, so it might have been worth checking there. 

6 minutes ago, KergeKacsa said:

Why use arcane shot and just 2 Aimed shot, while starting from max foxus we could cast 3 Aimed shot in he Vulnerable-window without any Arcane shot. (And start to generate focus with arcane shot after Vulnerable wore off.)

I've put in a note for Azor asking why.

[Guest Garva]

Is it just me or is Zevrim's Hunger basically useless in single target situations?

[Guest Baja]

i wonder about the true aim/trick shot combo....guide says not to use it....but it affects aimed shot....which you wont be using in aoe situations anyway....or am i missing something?

[Valks 2,373]

8 hours ago, Guest Garva said:

Is it just me or is Zevrim's Hunger basically useless in single target situations?

It's definitely much better in AoE, yeah.

[Valks 2,373]

3 hours ago, Guest Baja said:

i wonder about the true aim/trick shot combo....guide says not to use it....but it affects aimed shot....which you wont be using in aoe situations anyway....or am i missing something?

I believe that, when using TS, you will only Multi-Shot to spread Vuln and instead Aimed Shot for AoE.

[AartS 14]

First of all, a big thumbs up for the effort put into this guide! The changes in 7.1.5 are so drastic that I would be nowhere without this, thank you Azor!

With the recent change in stat priority (crit > haste once more) and the updated trinket sim section I have a question. Before the Arans Relaxing ruby (with set) was mentioned quite high in the ranking, now I cannot find it. In the comments it still sais it does as fair bit more then without the set. Even the 850 bloodthirsty is ranked higher it seems now. I currently have these trinkets but am at a loss what to use:

Ethereal Urn (875), so thats a no brainer and should be used.
Arans Relaxing Ruby (875) with set/chest, so i thought this would be my second best.
Bloodthirsty Instinct (855), which i thought to be third best.

The sim section now appears to be stating that my 855 instinct would beat my 875 ruby, is that correct or am I missing something?

[Valks 2,373]

7 minutes ago, AartS said:

The sim section now appears to be stating that my 855 instinct would beat my 875 ruby, is that correct or am I missing something?

I'm not aware of any issues that are pending with the simulation lists (they were updated overnight), so I would assume that, unfortunately, it's correct and your 855 > your 875.

[Guest Souin]

Incredible work! I've read through the shaman and hunter comments (since I play those two) and the amount of effort and work put into is brilliant!

 

Thanks for that

[Valks 2,373]

4 minutes ago, Guest Souin said:

Incredible work! I've read through the shaman and hunter comments (since I play those two) and the amount of effort and work put into is brilliant!

We're certainly trying our best! I'm glad that the guides are working well for you :)

[Vuda 1]

The newest trinkets simulation seem a little bit weird to me. It says that Ehereal Urn, even at basic 875ilvl is 2nd best trinket and Aran's is waaaay lower. Yet when I simcrafted Aran's /w set vs my 880 Urn the results were totally different, Aran's still did over 10k more dps. And yes, I have the newest version of simcraft :P

[Guest Tigerwong]

13 hours ago, KergeKacsa said:

It seems to me, that the guide changes quite rapidly. :)

When I asked the pawn strings, they were the old, so yes, when you answered, they were updated.

But based on your two replies ("Where are you seeing this in the opener? " and your quote from the guide ("It does not change your rotation in any meaningful way, and you should simply spam the extra Marked Shots that it gives you back-to-back." which I doesn't see anywhere atm, but say the opposite, to just shoot Marked shot just when Vulnerable is not present) even you can't follow it :D

So, I got another question, which may be answered already in the near future. :)

Azo says this atm:

• If  Windburst becomes available during one of these periods, use it immediately and generate focus with Arcane Shot afterwards. Then, towards the end of the  Vulnerable window, cast the 2 Aimed Shots with roughly 4 seconds remaining on  Vulnerable.
• When you get a proc: →  Marked Shot → Keep Cast  Arcane Shot once (twice with extremely high Haste) so that there is only ~4 seconds remaining on Vulnerable → 2x  Aimed Shots.

 

Why use arcane shot and just 2 Aimed shot, while starting from max foxus we could cast 3 Aimed shot in he Vulnerable-window without any Arcane shot. (And start to generate focus with arcane shot after Vulnerable wore off.)

 

This is something I have been thinking about a lot.  I am no pro but my guess is sometimes two sometimes three.

I have noticed that if I always go for three Aimed Shots, I leave a lot of Marked Shots there wasted.  My theory is within your "Marked Shot > First Aimed Shot" window if you see Arcane Shot light up, stop after the second Aimed Shot go for Arcane Shot so Marked Shot procs again.  If you follow the Marked Shot at 115 focus rule, you will be at 50 focus since you don't shoot your third Aimed Shot and you will be back up to 115 much fast than if you would shoot three Aimed Shots.

This way, the third Aimed Shot is actually used as a contingency plan when Arcane Shot doesn't light up.

The part where I am still stuck at is where Windburst stands under this theory.  It's damage is higher than Marked Shot so if we don't want to waste Marked Shots, neither would we waste Windbursts.  Currently it's only an easy decision when Windburst cool down lines up perfectly with my 115 focus.

[Valks 2,373]

2 hours ago, Vuda said:

The newest trinkets simulation seem a little bit weird to me. It says that Ehereal Urn, even at basic 875ilvl is 2nd best trinket and Aran's is waaaay lower. Yet when I simcrafted Aran's /w set vs my 880 Urn the results were totally different, Aran's still did over 10k more dps. And yes, I have the newest version of simcraft :P

That does sound odd. I'm not aware of any major issues with the trinket lists, they were updated this morning, so I'd expect them to be fairly accurate. That's also a pretty large difference. Did you change anything between the sims or did you do a direct comparison? Also, are you someone that sims often or a newcomer to it? Just trying to see if there could be an error somewhere!

[Guest Lagboot]

20 hours ago, Metztli said:

Do you still use barrage if not what is your replacement ?

No, absolutely not, I use Crows. I only use Barrage in heavy AOE boss fights (not many out there). I found that Crows is king even on aoe for trash. You just have to use it correctly. As in, Cast at half health or less to get insta refresh, and in doing so, I can spam it on nearly all the trash mobs and get full dps from it.

[Valks 2,373]

7 minutes ago, Guest Lagboot said:

No, absolutely not, I use Crows. I only use Barrage in heavy AOE boss fights (not many out there). I found that Crows is king even on aoe for trash. You just have to use it correctly. As in, Cast at half health or less to get insta refresh, and in doing so, I can spam it on nearly all the trash mobs and get full dps from it.

You can also just sit there with Volley instead, assuming you mean stacked trash.