Subtlety Rogue 7.3

[Guest Blayke]

Quick question on trinkets.  I noticed that Soul Capacitor isn't even mentioned here.   I assume that's because the "explosion" no longer grants a damage bonus? 

Would the Chipped Soul Prism be a suitable replacement?   How about the heirloom trinket?  I noticed that's also not mentioned here but I thought I'd get your opinion on that while I'm here.  :) 

To be honest, I really don't want to craft a max level philosopher's stone this late in the expac.

Thanks for your help!

[Furty 51]

4 hours ago, Guest Blayke said:

Quick question on trinkets.  I noticed that Soul Capacitor isn't even mentioned here.   I assume that's because the "explosion" no longer grants a damage bonus? 

Would the Chipped Soul Prism be a suitable replacement?   How about the heirloom trinket?  I noticed that's also not mentioned here but I thought I'd get your opinion on that while I'm here.  :) 

To be honest, I really don't want to craft a max level philosopher's stone this late in the expac.

Thanks for your help!

Soul Cap is just really inconsistent now. CSP is a totally acceptable replacement.

[Guest Blayke]

Thank you for such a quick response.  Just one more question about this, if I may.

According to my in game tooltip, it's still exploding for about a 24% damage bonus.  But in my armory, the tooltip reads 100.3% damage, which is basically no damage at all.   But I also understand  that the armory is kind of broken, although i don't know if that applies to the gear tooltips as well.

So, I'm just wondering which is correct.  Again, thanks for you help

[Furty 51]

16 minutes ago, Guest Blayke said:

Thank you for such a quick response.  Just one more question about this, if I may.

According to my in game tooltip, it's still exploding for about a 24% damage bonus.  But in my armory, the tooltip reads 100.3% damage, which is basically no damage at all.   But I also understand  that the armory is kind of broken, although i don't know if that applies to the gear tooltips as well.

So, I'm just wondering which is correct.  Again, thanks for you help

In-game is correct. 

[Guest Fitse]

Hi. First of all, thanks for your great work on your rogue guides, I really appreciate the effort. I was reading the changes to your outlaw-guide today and noticed the explanation for not enchanting Mark of Shadowmoon on both weapons due to ICD-triggering on both weapons. Wouldn't the same apply to subtlety and therefor crit should be chosen as 2nd enchantment for weapons? Hopefully I didn't miss something obvious ^^

[Furty 51]

On 7/25/2016 at 4:02 AM, Guest Fitse said:

Hi. First of all, thanks for your great work on your rogue guides, I really appreciate the effort. I was reading the changes to your outlaw-guide today and noticed the explanation for not enchanting Mark of Shadowmoon on both weapons due to ICD-triggering on both weapons. Wouldn't the same apply to subtlety and therefor crit should be chosen as 2nd enchantment for weapons? Hopefully I didn't miss something obvious ^^

Yep, that's actually being edited into all of the Rogue guides as it is recently uncovered info! 

[Guest Bulooka]

What is better - not capping your combo points or dumping 4 GCDs into shadowstrike? Is there a situation where I would do one or the other? A bit confused

[Furty 51]

55 minutes ago, Guest Bulooka said:

What is better - not capping your combo points or dumping 4 GCDs into shadowstrike? Is there a situation where I would do one or the other? A bit confused

This is covered in the guide, under Rotation Section 2.2 (Shadow Dance).

" You should still  Eviscerate if you cap Combo Points in  Shadow Dance for the energy return from  Relentless Strikes and avoid Combo Point overflow. "

[Rupio 0]

In the Tier 2 (Level 30) Talents section you mention Nightstalker as a 'good choice' (but not the best).

I been using it during leveling and also developed my playstyle (energy management etc) around it. Any idea how much of a loss it is compared to Subterfuge ? 

Or better stated: is the difference between the two talents big enough to adjust to a new playstyle?

 

[Carrn 284]

I think it is, but it's really a personal choice. We're at the end of the expansion, and things will change as we head into the new one. Being flexible and able to adapt is a good skill to have, so I'd recommend at least practicing it

 

[Furty 51]

On 7/30/2016 at 4:14 PM, Rupio said:

In the Tier 2 (Level 30) Talents section you mention Nightstalker as a 'good choice' (but not the best).

I been using it during leveling and also developed my playstyle (energy management etc) around it. Any idea how much of a loss it is compared to Subterfuge ? 

Or better stated: is the difference between the two talents big enough to adjust to a new playstyle?

 

Leveling is a whole different beast. Subterfuge is considerably better when using raid gear (4P + Toxin Vessel) combined with recommended talents as it allows for significantly more Shadow Strikes. In Legion the difference between Subterfuge and Nightstalker is smaller. Subterfuge will always be a better choice when combined with Vigor, whereas Nightstalker is usually equal or even slightly better with Death From Above.

[Guest luQ]

On 7/19/2016 at 2:46 AM, Furty said:

Don't worry dude, it will definitely take over later in Legion! Assassination doesn't scale very well since Mastery doesn't affect your Bleeds at all and Haste doesn't have much value to begin with. Subtlety on the other hand scales extraordinarily well and I would expect it to be dominant in Nighthold or the tier after!

What would you recommend? I'm fairly new to rogue and want to play it in Legion but I don't know if I can put enough time in it to level 2 artefact weapons could I go directly with sub or does it falls to far behind assa dps in the first tier?

[Guest venomhunter amanthul]

Opening sequence (pre pull) is incorrect and needs to be corrected.

() = more realistic

13(14) sec befor pull -> Symbol of Death

3.5(4) sec befor pull -> refresh Symbol of Death

45 sec refresh - 3.5(4) sec = 41.5(41) sec instead of 35 sec symbol of death on pull with full energy

additionaly you need to do the exact math but 2 or 3 times Shadowstrike with a following 5 cp nightblade during Subterfuge before entering shadowdance seems extremely beneficial to me as you mostly end up with full energy after using shadowdance.

 

 

[Furty 51]

On 8/4/2016 at 9:16 AM, Guest venomhunter amanthul said:

Opening sequence (pre pull) is incorrect and needs to be corrected.

() = more realistic

13(14) sec befor pull -> Symbol of Death

3.5(4) sec befor pull -> refresh Symbol of Death

45 sec refresh - 3.5(4) sec = 41.5(41) sec instead of 35 sec symbol of death on pull with full energy

additionaly you need to do the exact math but 2 or 3 times Shadowstrike with a following 5 cp nightblade during Subterfuge before entering shadowdance seems extremely beneficial to me as you mostly end up with full energy after using shadowdance.

 

 

Good point, can definitely include the Pandemic refresh.

[Guest nbf77]

Is it normal that you waste a lot of Combo Points while Shadow Blades is active?

Lets say:

You enter Shadow-Dance and use Shadow Strike -> 3 CP, use Shadow Strike -> 5 CP (1 def. wasted)

If extra autohit-CP triggers, you are going to waste 2 CP. Is it still better using a 3-CP-Shadow-Strike while having 4 CP instead of an Eviscerate? Because 4CP-Evis has not a 100% Chance to refund energy?!

Everytime I'm using Shadow Blades, It feels so wrong! So what do you say?

 

[Carrn 284]

2 hours ago, Guest nbf77 said:

Is it normal that you waste a lot of Combo Points while Shadow Blades is active?

Lets say:

You enter Shadow-Dance and use Shadow Strike -> 3 CP, use Shadow Strike -> 5 CP (1 def. wasted)

If extra autohit-CP triggers, you are going to waste 2 CP. Is it still better using a 3-CP-Shadow-Strike while having 4 CP instead of an Eviscerate? Because 4CP-Evis has not a 100% Chance to refund energy?!

Everytime I'm using Shadow Blades, It feels so wrong! So what do you say?

 

Wasting a cp is fine

[Guest Blayke]

Quick question about using vanish with shadow dance:

I have the four piece and the class trinket. Seems to me that stacking Vanish and Shadowdance is a waste of a buff, since you can continue to use shadowstrike for 3 seconds after you leave stealth.

So wouldn't it make sense to vanish and shadowstrike while you still have the benefit of the subterfuge buff, and then use your charges of shadowdance? Or is there something I'm missing?

Thanks for your help.

[Guest Sparlow]

Hey Furty, just a quick question:

Is it worth to cast  Symbol of Death everytime it's up for the critical hit or is it a waste of energy

[Furty 51]

On 8/12/2016 at 0:31 PM, Guest Sparlow said:

Hey Furty, just a quick question:

Is it worth to cast  Symbol of Death everytime it's up for the critical hit or is it a waste of energy

Right now it's preferable to just keep it refreshed whenever it's in Pandemic range.

 

On 8/7/2016 at 3:19 AM, Guest Blayke said:

Quick question about using vanish with shadow dance:

I have the four piece and the class trinket. Seems to me that stacking Vanish and Shadowdance is a waste of a buff, since you can continue to use shadowstrike for 3 seconds after you leave stealth.

So wouldn't it make sense to vanish and shadowstrike while you still have the benefit of the subterfuge buff, and then use your charges of shadowdance? Or is there something I'm missing?

Thanks for your help.

Sure, ideally you'll want to Vanish then Eviscerate and go into your Shadow Strikes if you have set bonus.

[Guest Makiaveli]

Hi,

the mechanic of Mark of Shadowmoon is still an internal cooldown based enchant?

[demonardvark 556]

so, in the guide I didn't really see a dedicated aoe section. What is sub supposed to do for aoe fights?

[Carrn 284]

1 hour ago, demonardvark said:

so, in the guide I didn't really see a dedicated aoe section. What is sub supposed to do for aoe fights?

Tongue in cheek answer? Play Outlaw

Realistically, timing Shadow Dance to line up with waves of adds, using Fan of Knives as your damage, and spending cp on your main target is really the only thing you can do. Unless you want to use Vanish for the damage boost from the set bonus for a little more burst

[demonardvark 556]

3 hours ago, Carrn said:

Tongue in cheek answer? Play Outlaw

Realistically, timing Shadow Dance to line up with waves of adds, using Fan of Knives as your damage, and spending cp on your main target is really the only thing you can do. Unless you want to use Vanish for the damage boost from the set bonus for a little more burst

so basically like in HFC where affliction didn't have to fight trash :P playing sub removes you from trash duty :)

[Carrn 284]

The bonus damage to Shuriken Storm is ok, but almost every other class does it better haha

[demonardvark 556]

5 hours ago, Carrn said:

The bonus damage to Shuriken Storm is ok, but almost every other class does it better haha

might main sub just because I hate doing trash XD