Arms Warrior 7.3

[Svanir 0]

I want to ask about Versatility. It gives less damage than the others but in this guide it's recommended as the second main stat. What is the reason for this?

________________________________

Sorry for my bad english

Edited September 15, 2016 by Svanir

[Guest Jaypie]

Hey thank you for the guide, its awesome!

But i've got a question.

Whats the theory behind not using Execute (w/o the  Ayalas Stone Heart) when the enemy is <20% HP ?

For my Gear (iLVL 843) i got following DPS-Tooltips:

Rage + Stack Count FR	Mortal Strike Tooltip	Execute Tooltip
8 Rage (Execute or MS with "Precise Strikes Trait" costs)	136137	58647 (+15% critchance)
16 Rage (Mortal Strike costs)	136137	117294 (+15% critchance)
28 Rage (MS + 1 Stack of FR)	163635	205264(+15% critchance)
32 Rage (Execute Max Rage/DMG)		234588(+15% critchance)
40 Rage (MS + 2 Stack of FR)	190592
52 Rage (MS + 3 Stack of FR)	217820

 

So it seems that Execute with 32 Rage (max) does more damage than MS+3 Stacks of FR (which even costs 20 more rage)

Execute also got +15% Critchance from the Weapon-Traits, so 2 minimum Rage Executes (2x 8 Rage) should so it should be nearly the same dmg than an unbuffed MS.

Avatar Talaent, Shattered Defenses Trait and Corrupted Blood of Zakajz Trait also work better with Execute sinc it's highest dmg is higher than MS and the % multiplicator of those 3 gives more damage.

Did i miss something or why is execute so bad ?

Shouldnt the priority list be more like:

1. Cast  Charge if out of range of your target.
2. Cast  Colossus Smash if available.
3. Cast  Warbreaker if  Colossus Smash is absent from the target.
4. Cast  Overpower if taken and available.
5. Cast  Execute (if Shattered Defenses Trait is active & Rage > 16)
6. Cast  Mortal Strike if rage reduce from Colossus Smash ( Precise Strikes Weapon Trait) is up and rage < 16
7. Cast  Execute  
8. Cast  Mortal Strike (regardless of  Focused Rage stacks).
9. Cast  Focused Rage if not at 3 stacks or during  Battle Cry.
10. Cast  Slam if at 3 stacks of  Focused Rage, or during  Battle Cry.

[Guest KyleDrogo]

Hypothetically, let's say a certain individual was lucky enough to come across both Ayala's Stone Heart and Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus within the last week. Since you're only allowed to equip one legendary (currently), which of the two items would you prioritize?

[Guest Gannic]

Hey warrior bruhs!

I have a question for Wordup or any1 who is really experienced and has a deep understanding of the warrior class.

Since Focused Rage is off the GCD, it can be cast once or twice if CS resets due to Tactician. This means the following MS will do more damage, yet it does run the 'risk' of resetting the CS cooldown before it's been used/cast. 

Is it better not to spam FR (even if for example rage capped with Battle Cry) and wait for the GCD to pass or should I use the GCD to get more FR stacks even though this might 'waste' a CS? Any rationale proof of this would be really nice :)

I love the guide, it's been a great help!

[Valks 2,373]

22 hours ago, Svanir said:

I want to ask about Versatility. It gives less damage than the others but in this guide it's recommended as the second main stat. What is the reason for this?

________________________________

Sorry for my bad english

What do you mean it gives less damage?

[Valks 2,373]

21 hours ago, Guest KyleDrogo said:

Hypothetically, let's say a certain individual was lucky enough to come across both Ayala's Stone Heart and Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus within the last week. Since you're only allowed to equip one legendary (currently), which of the two items would you prioritize?

Definitely Stone Heart.

[Valks 2,373]

22 hours ago, Guest Jaypie said:

Hey thank you for the guide, its awesome!

But i've got a question.

 

6 hours ago, Guest Gannic said:

Hey warrior bruhs!

I have a question for Wordup or any1 who is really experienced and has a deep understanding of the warrior class.

Tagging @wordup for these two, since they are far beyond what I know!

[Valhallajandro 0]

13 hours ago, Guest Gannic said:

Hey warrior bruhs!

I have a question for Wordup or any1 who is really experienced and has a deep understanding of the warrior class.

Since Focused Rage is off the GCD, it can be cast once or twice if CS resets due to Tactician. This means the following MS will do more damage, yet it does run the 'risk' of resetting the CS cooldown before it's been used/cast. 

Is it better not to spam FR (even if for example rage capped with Battle Cry) and wait for the GCD to pass or should I use the GCD to get more FR stacks even though this might 'waste' a CS? Any rationale proof of this would be really nice :)

I love the guide, it's been a great help!

Since the bonuses of SD and FR are (to my understanding) multiplicative, I would assume that 3xFR will be better than a 2xFR should you proc a Tactician reset. But my napkin math is telling a different tale, but there could be some serious folds in my base logic. Napkin math as follows:

3xFR:

(arbitrary damage number)x(FRx3)x(SD)=

100,000x2.2x1.3=286,000/3gcd=95,333

2xFR:

100,000x1.8x1.3=234,000/2gcd=117,000

1xFR: Never because you can always fit 2 FR in the gcds of CS and MS that you would cast.

******NOT A THEORYCRAFTER***** so it's 99% possible that my numbers are laughable.

 

[wordup 37]

On 15/09/2016 at 4:46 PM, Guest Jaypie said:

Hey thank you for the guide, its awesome!

But i've got a question.

Whats the theory behind not using Execute (w/o the  Ayalas Stone Heart) when the enemy is <20% HP ?

For my Gear (iLVL 843) i got following DPS-Tooltips:

Rage + Stack Count FR	Mortal Strike Tooltip	Execute Tooltip
8 Rage (Execute or MS with "Precise Strikes Trait" costs)	136137	58647 (+15% critchance)
16 Rage (Mortal Strike costs)	136137	117294 (+15% critchance)
28 Rage (MS + 1 Stack of FR)	163635	205264(+15% critchance)
32 Rage (Execute Max Rage/DMG)		234588(+15% critchance)
40 Rage (MS + 2 Stack of FR)	190592
52 Rage (MS + 3 Stack of FR)	217820

 

So it seems that Execute with 32 Rage (max) does more damage than MS+3 Stacks of FR (which even costs 20 more rage)

Execute also got +15% Critchance from the Weapon-Traits, so 2 minimum Rage Executes (2x 8 Rage) should so it should be nearly the same dmg than an unbuffed MS.

Avatar Talaent, Shattered Defenses Trait and Corrupted Blood of Zakajz Trait also work better with Execute sinc it's highest dmg is higher than MS and the % multiplicator of those 3 gives more damage.

Did i miss something or why is execute so bad ?

Shouldnt the priority list be more like:

1. Cast  Charge if out of range of your target.
2. Cast  Colossus Smash if available.
3. Cast  Warbreaker if  Colossus Smash is absent from the target.
4. Cast  Overpower if taken and available.
5. Cast  Execute (if Shattered Defenses Trait is active & Rage > 16)
6. Cast  Mortal Strike if rage reduce from Colossus Smash ( Precise Strikes Weapon Trait) is up and rage < 16
7. Cast  Execute  
8. Cast  Mortal Strike (regardless of  Focused Rage stacks).
9. Cast  Focused Rage if not at 3 stacks or during  Battle Cry.
10. Cast  Slam if at 3 stacks of  Focused Rage, or during  Battle Cry.

Looking at raw tooltips has a questionable effect due to Armor reduction and interaction with CSmash percentage effects. However, regardless of this I can't replicate a tooltip effect like that between 3xFocused Rage (resulting in a 120% increase) Mortal Strike and Execute. The only situation (which I am looking into at the moment with some APLs) is casting Execute as a higher priority during Deadly Calm.

[wordup 37]

18 hours ago, Guest Gannic said:

Hey warrior bruhs!

I have a question for Wordup or any1 who is really experienced and has a deep understanding of the warrior class.

Since Focused Rage is off the GCD, it can be cast once or twice if CS resets due to Tactician. This means the following MS will do more damage, yet it does run the 'risk' of resetting the CS cooldown before it's been used/cast. 

Is it better not to spam FR (even if for example rage capped with Battle Cry) and wait for the GCD to pass or should I use the GCD to get more FR stacks even though this might 'waste' a CS? Any rationale proof of this would be really nice :)

I love the guide, it's been a great help!

You'll want to ideally expend the Shattered Defenses on the subsequent cast and then burn off rage with Focused Rage, if you can. Wasting a Shattered Defenses proc is really detrimental. This however edges into feelycraft of hedging bets against procs. Ideally you'll have some FR charges as is entering into a CS window triggering SD, so it should be somewhat mitigated.

[Guest Archaide]

What are the stat weights? I can find them anywhere, if anyone has a pawn string that would be great. Thx.

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/17/2016 at 4:28 AM, Guest Archaide said:

What are the stat weights? I can find them anywhere, if anyone has a pawn string that would be great. Thx.

From the guide:

Quote

These were calculated using the Advanced build, and 840 Pre-Raid gear:

• Mastery: 1.33
• Strength: 1
• Versatility: 0.88
• Haste: 0.81
• Critical Strike: 0.65

Note that these might not be 100% accurate for your exact character, since they are general weights.

[Guest Jaypie]

On 17.9.2016 at 4:03 AM, wordup said:

Looking at raw tooltips has a questionable effect due to Armor reduction and interaction with CSmash percentage effects. However, regardless of this I can't replicate a tooltip effect like that between 3xFocused Rage (resulting in a 120% increase) Mortal Strike and Execute. The only situation (which I am looking into at the moment with some APLs) is casting Execute as a higher priority during Deadly Calm.

I just tested this.

My maxrage Execute (32 Rage) Hits and Crits are always higher than my 3 Stacks FR Mortal Strike hits (52 Rage) and costs less Rage.

Doesn't matter if CSmash is running or not. Cant you really reproduce this ?

FR also seems to not increase the MS DMG properly... check that parses

Interesting Things:

1.) MS with 0 Stacks of FR do AVG 96k DMG, 3 Stacked Hits (+120%) do avg. 158k dmg shouldn't they atleast do like 200k+ than.

It seems that FR only increase MS-DMG by 20% per Stack right now. My Tooltip is also increasing by exactly 20% per stack. (137,584 -> 165,100 -> 192,617 -> 220,133)

2.) DMG of MS varies very hard w/o any reason. (the were no debuffs or buffs)

3.) AVG DMG of Max Rage Execute is higher than 3 Stacked FR Mortal Strikes (would be even better with the 15% crit trait i don't have yet)

 

So maybe i am the only one with that bug, but your numbers/rotation should only be right if that FR issue wouldn't be there.

 

[Valks 2,373]

21 hours ago, Guest Jaypie said:

So maybe i am the only one with that bug, but your numbers/rotation should only be right if that FR issue wouldn't be there.

Definitely nice to see contribution from the readers. Thanks for that. We'll review and update the guide if we find changes that need to be made in your post!

[Guest Thogroic]

What about the ~21% haste (up to 25% depending on latency) breakpoint, which enables a fifth cast during Battle Cry? Is this worth pursuing? 

[Guest Knightwolve]

Hey, I've just been looking through the default arms simc profile (http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html) and i noticed the neck enchant used in the sim is Mark of the distant army, is this the best neck enchant or is Satyr the best as listed here?

[Guest Mosmorgan]

Hello!

I used simulationcraft on my character. There it says that haste has a higher score than Versatillity for me. could that be correct? I used the string from simulationcraft into a addon called "Pawn" on WoW and it wanted me to change my current headpiece with vers/mastery to a headpiece with haste/mastery (even less mastery on the new head). Shall i trust simcraft?

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/20/2016 at 5:51 PM, Guest Thogroic said:

What about the ~21% haste (up to 25% depending on latency) breakpoint, which enables a fifth cast during Battle Cry? Is this worth pursuing? 

13 hours ago, Guest Mosmorgan said:

Hello!

I used simulationcraft on my character. There it says that haste has a higher score than Versatillity for me. could that be correct? I used the string from simulationcraft into a addon called "Pawn" on WoW and it wanted me to change my current headpiece with vers/mastery to a headpiece with haste/mastery (even less mastery on the new head). Shall i trust simcraft?

Hey guys, just tagging you all to say that I have notified Wordup and he will investigate to see whether there is a Haste cap that is worth pursuing. Note that raiding has begun, so we might get a response slightly slower than normal. I can only apologise about that and hopefully we can update you with the new information ASAP if there is any.

The last time we checked, the cap simply wasn't worth pushing for given the loss of other stats.

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/20/2016 at 7:02 PM, Guest Knightwolve said:

Hey, I've just been looking through the default arms simc profile (http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html) and i noticed the neck enchant used in the sim is Mark of the distant army, is this the best neck enchant or is Satyr the best as listed here?

Hidden satyr is currently the best.

[Guest Tai]

@Jaypie the reason your numbers are whack is because you're testing it in pvp situation, either pvp target dummy or something along those lines. If you take your one focused rage MS tooltip of 163635 it's exactly 120% of your regular MS tooltip of 136137. Focused rage is only 20% in PVP.

@wordup @blainie Jaypie does bring up something that should be updated though. It can be better explained with Damage per Rage (DPR) concept instead of damage tooltips. I'm going to ignore Dauntless as its net result on both abilities is the same.
>>Mortal strike is better damage per rage at its BASE (no focused rage) than execute.<<<

So using Jaypie's numbers Mortal Strike is 136,137 damage for 20 rage, or 6806dpr.
Execute will be 117,294 damage for 20 rage, or 5864dpr.
Once you add a stack of Focused rage, Mortal Strike damage goes up to 190,591 but DPR goes down to 5445.

Therefore you should not be using FR at execute range outside of Battle Cry since you can easily drain all your rage with execute. Execute's damage per rage is going to be almost on par with Mortal Strike once people have 15% additional execute crit artifact traits.

[Valks 2,373]

10 minutes ago, Guest Tai said:

@wordup @blainie Jaypie does bring up something that should be updated though.

Will get Wordup to take a look at this as soon as he can between raiding. Thanks for the heads up!

[wordup 37]

On 19/09/2016 at 6:43 AM, Guest Jaypie said:

I just tested this.

My maxrage Execute (32 Rage) Hits and Crits are always higher than my 3 Stacks FR Mortal Strike hits (52 Rage) and costs less Rage.

Doesn't matter if CSmash is running or not. Cant you really reproduce this ?

FR also seems to not increase the MS DMG properly... check that parses

Interesting Things:

1.) MS with 0 Stacks of FR do AVG 96k DMG, 3 Stacked Hits (+120%) do avg. 158k dmg shouldn't they atleast do like 200k+ than.

It seems that FR only increase MS-DMG by 20% per Stack right now. My Tooltip is also increasing by exactly 20% per stack. (137,584 -> 165,100 -> 192,617 -> 220,133)

2.) DMG of MS varies very hard w/o any reason. (the were no debuffs or buffs)

3.) AVG DMG of Max Rage Execute is higher than 3 Stacked FR Mortal Strikes (would be even better with the 15% crit trait i don't have yet)

 

So maybe i am the only one with that bug, but your numbers/rotation should only be right if that FR issue wouldn't be there.

 

That's pretty interesting, if you could produce a quick log on that I'd like to take a look. There are a few variables in there since it's playing averages that I'd like to rule out (particularly Shattered Defenses, and other procs that can interact with that), if you're able to. Would definitely like to cross reference my results with another player

[wordup 37]

On 20/09/2016 at 5:51 PM, Guest Thogroic said:

What about the ~21% haste (up to 25% depending on latency) breakpoint, which enables a fifth cast during Battle Cry? Is this worth pursuing? 

At the moment I'm delaying implementing this in mostly because a lot of the Arms players I was speaking to were debating its applications in relation to content. The overwhelming majority of high parsing warriors as well seem to be leaning heavily toward double Mastery stacked Savant crafting gear which could skew results also. I'll still keep an eye on it for sims in relation to practice

[wordup 37]

16 hours ago, Guest Mosmorgan said:

Hello!

I used simulationcraft on my character. There it says that haste has a higher score than Versatillity for me. could that be correct? I used the string from simulationcraft into a addon called "Pawn" on WoW and it wanted me to change my current headpiece with vers/mastery to a headpiece with haste/mastery (even less mastery on the new head). Shall i trust simcraft?

How updated was your Simcraft version in this situation? Bear in mind there are a lot of variables (trinkets and talent choices) that can skew your results that may lean toward a different stat weight than is posted here as a general result.

[wordup 37]

1 hour ago, Guest Tai said:

@Jaypie the reason your numbers are whack is because you're testing it in pvp situation, either pvp target dummy or something along those lines. If you take your one focused rage MS tooltip of 163635 it's exactly 120% of your regular MS tooltip of 136137. Focused rage is only 20% in PVP.

@wordup @blainie Jaypie does bring up something that should be updated though. It can be better explained with Damage per Rage (DPR) concept instead of damage tooltips. I'm going to ignore Dauntless as its net result on both abilities is the same.
>>Mortal strike is better damage per rage at its BASE (no focused rage) than execute.<<<

So using Jaypie's numbers Mortal Strike is 136,137 damage for 20 rage, or 6806dpr.
Execute will be 117,294 damage for 20 rage, or 5864dpr.
Once you add a stack of Focused rage, Mortal Strike damage goes up to 190,591 but DPR goes down to 5445.

Therefore you should not be using FR at execute range outside of Battle Cry since you can easily drain all your rage with execute. Execute's damage per rage is going to be almost on par with Mortal Strike once people have 15% additional execute crit artifact traits.

Whilst the DPR aspect is correct, spending additional rage to trigger additional Colossus Smash resets, and then upping your instances of Shattered Defenses to spend them is a significant gain (and a core part of playing Arms right now). The theory is sound and without that aspect taken into account would be 100% correct, but given that spending Rage is a % chance for only one reset, doing it in drips for multiple chances at the same thing is quite valuable.