Trompu

Prot pally trinks

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Hi guys!! Been reading the forum a bit lately and seeing as there's a great community around I figured I could ask for help here =)

I haven't been in the game for too long so i'm still new to kinda everything my first 90 is a paladin who I decided to make tank for the fun of it =)

I've been reading quite a few guides and found out that gearing for control/haste is what the most suceeding pallys are doing so i started my path down that road but, on a recent post on sacred duty, Theck said that building for Control/MasteryHaste would grant excellent result in non-heroic tanking and could be better for the learning curve so I figured I should give it a shot.

After all this introduction the actual question... Here's my armory link to start with http://us.battle.net...alarus/advanced, as you can see one of my trinkets is very very very (and so on) outdated and I badly need to find a replacement. Which trinket should I go for? I talked to my raid leader about spell_warlock_demonsoul.jpgSoul Barrier but he said no tank in his right mind would go for stamina in a trinket, is he right?

The option i'm considering are:

ability_warrior_strengthofarms.jpgBrutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault

spell_arcane_arcanetactics.jpgSteadfast Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault

spell_warlock_demonsoul.jpgSoul Barrier

spell_holy_heal.jpgJi-Kun's Rising Winds

inv_misc_trinketpanda_13.jpgStuff of Nightmares

And also Mr Robot is recomending some other options that I found a bit weird like:

creatureportrait_cyclone_nodebris.jpgDarkmist Vortex

spell_nature_lightningshield.jpgSpark of Zandalar

ability_priest_angelicfeather.jpgFabled Feather of Ji-Kun

I would really appreciate some help here since i'm a bit overwhelmed by all the data i'm trying to soak in.

Of course any other thoughts on my pally are appreciated, am I on the right way? what else could I change or improve?

Thank you very much =)

P.S.: I know my english may not be the best, I assure you I try to make as few mistakes as possible =)

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Well, as youre new to tanking ill break this to you slowly. When it comes to tanking there is rarely a "correct" answer. Trinket choice for a tank is not the same as a dps, where you can simply run a sim and see which combination of trinks churns out the highest theoretical dps. What you must decide is what style of tanking you wish to pursue. there are many trains of thought with regard to said options; use your trinkets as retro-burners in case you get low and healers are distracted (o-shit buttons), or you can use them to maximize your class in an attempt to improve your performance permanently in an attempt to never need that extra o-shit button. For example, if you are a haste paladin it might be beneficial to use spark of zalandar, due to its massive static haste bonus. more haste = more holy power generators = direct increase in shield uptimes. OR: go for a more traditional approach to your trinket, aka the soul barrier trink; high stam to be able to take big hits with a decent cd in case the hit was just slightly too big. None of these would be incorrect choices (besides stam stacking, seriously dude, dont do it. healers will hate you). The only types of tanks whos gear is truly "wrong" are those who cannot find a style and stick with it. You want to remain consistent with your build as thoroughly as possible. If you're a haste pally dont use a mastery trinket, if your a mastery pally dont use a haste trinket etc. Will you survive with a proper healer? yes. will you be maximizing your class and distinguishing yourself as a talented and proactive player while taking the healing focus off of yourself so that raid heals may be supported more appropriately? no.

that being said, you mentioned that youre primarily a mastery pally. with large gaps between your shield uptimes the steadfast trink would be acceptable. would add a few % mitigation when SoTR is up and give you a decent cd to blow in the interim if you get into trouble. its also attainable through valor unlike some of the other haste-based trinks posted in which you'd be rolling against ret pallies. mastery builds are solid, and theyre perfectly viable for 10m normal raiding in tot, but if you move into heroic modes you might considering doing some research on pure haste, itll keep your ass alive and drop your damage curves significantly more than a mastery build. you may take 3% more damage in a haste build, but it wont be in a spike that will fry you. though, as mentioned above, thats the style that works with my personality and my healers' compostion and their styles. you gotta feel it out and find what works for you.

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Thanks for the answer, I got some followups, why do healers an stam stacking tank? mana issues?

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, i'm currently control/haste but trying to go for Haste and Mastery as proposed by Theck in http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/03/26/sacred-bleu/

Based on that article and your response i'm probably gonna go for the steadfast trink, at least until I can get my hands on one of the tot LFR trinks, but one more thing, between the steadfast and the darkmist vortex, which one would be better?

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stam stacking is hated among healers for one main issue, you're squishy! lets use 2 extreme examples: haste/mastery with minimal static mitigation (0 dodge/ 0 parry) and a pure stam pally with minimal static mitigation. Both tanks are aware that a big hit is incoming. they both hit SoTR just prior to the hit and each receive mitigated damage. The haste/mastery pally has less health, so the effect could be more damaging, but with the increased mastery on its stats more damage is mitigated overall (mastery increases damage reduction of SoTR). so, even though the health pool is smaller, the hit taken was also smaller. the parallel example is as follows: stam pally takes the big hit with SoTR up and takes approx 10% more damage than the haste/mastery pally, but his health pool is significantly higher, lets say conveniently, by 10% for example purposes. Both tanks survive the hit, everything is groovy, right?

Now to the point: which tank is harder for healers to top back off? which build is more predictable and generates a more "smooth" damage curve?

Stam pally: took a bigger hit overall ~> takes more mana and faster responses from heals to top back off.

Haste/mastery ~> took a smaller hit and therefore less mana and less reaction to heal to full.

Now extend this scenario over the length of a 10min fight. As the haste/mastery pally is going to ultimately have a significantly higher percentage of SoTR active throughout the fight, overall its damage taken will be lower, AND its damage predictability will be higher, essentially making it easier to heal as well as more survivable because more big hits will be mitigated, while a low haste-high stam pally may be caught off guard or unable to generate enough holy power in time to get its shield up in time for the incoming hit.

The ultimate goal of tanking is consistency. if you can consistently take a hit of X damage, then healers can preempt the hit. haste/mastery is currently the build with the higher amount of consistent incoming damage.

Edited by skullytor

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Anything that gives you more damage mitigation is the way to go my friend. You will be the healers best friend. Prot pally is a unique special class in that you have self heals and enough cool downs to almost always be able to have some from of damage reduction going on. Something I have been trying out is actually haste building for prot pally. More haste means more SotR uptime, especially with Devine Purpose (an underrated talent). It is a lot of fun but harder to play. The brass tax is the more smoothly you take your damage, the more your healers will love you and the better you will do. This is a bit informal but I'm posting from my phone, but I hope it helps you some.

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You are correct skullytor but It's not quite that simple Posted Image . It's not about 1 hit and that's the error in the argument, it's about strings of hits. See http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/04/16/stamina-updated-smoothness-data/ for a great post on the strengths of stamina. Alot of how you build your paly is going to depend on the content you do. 10-man - Stamina is probably a little less valued, 25-man it's better. Do you need more dps for heroic progression fights? There are lots of factors going into how you build your prot paly. The biggest factor is simply what is easier for your healers to deal with? If they don't like the big health pool, because they are going oom then you should move to more haste.

Stamina is the best smoothing stat. It just may not be the best stat for certain situations.

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oh i know my explanation was simplified by a pretty heavy amount, but thats also why i included the "extend over a 10 min fight". interesting you say that it is a smoothing stat, when in my mind it is the stat which leads to the highest amount of damage spikes as well as highest dtps

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Hi, thanks for all the information, I started raiding in TOT last week and, as I have been playing wow for only 6 months now, it's been a crazy week, I reforged my gear around 4 or 5 times until I got to a point where I'm comfortable with my survivability, had to go for mastery until I get a better grip of my class and decide to switch to haste.

Thanks for all the links and explanations, you've been really helpful =)

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