5.4 Changes and Notes as of 7/10

[Zagam 1,983]

I'm pretty sure that the reforging issue about affliction in 5.4 will be how much mastery u can exchange for haste, IMO we will reforge everything into mastery and see how much haste we'll have, them, reforging a bit until next haste breakpoint, without losing a lot of mastery.

 

I do believe that give up of 300 more mastery worth one tick of your dot.

 

 

Btw, both TP bonuses look good and desirable, for affliction the 2TP bonus it's a good single target boost, and the 4TP it's a good overall dps increase, more than ever we cannot cap 4 soul shards, or we probably will waste a few nightfall + 4tp procs, I think, just think, that it's good to maintain 2 Soul Shards and when Dark Soul is less than 30seg to go, pray for one or two procs.

 

Btw, some ppl report almost 90% haunt uptime in PTR, thats huge.

This is why I don't understand the buffs to Affliction.  This will make it so that really good Affliction Warlocks can break open the meters.  Mediocre to good Warlocks will do good damage, but the gap between good and awesome Affliction Warlocks will be quite large.  Balancing all of your DoTs with procs and boosting your Haunt uptime as high as possible will be how you make us get nerfed.  With good RNG on the 2pc, you're going to see high damage pushes.  With good RNG on the 4pc along with good RNG on Nightfall procs, you're going to see very high Haunt uptimes.

[JvChequer 43]

Indeed the crit effect from 2tp will not worth it AT ALL stacking crit, it's just some minor thing to make crit less useless.

BTW, the 2tp bonus looks worse in multi-target fights, because u won't have time to malefic grasp every time while dot a lot of adds.

But, for fight with 2-3 targets, maybe the bonus will be great, if every target and not the last applied like nightfall can proc the bonus.

 

This is why I don't understand the buffs to Affliction.  This will make it so that really good Affliction Warlocks can break open the meters.  Mediocre to good Warlocks will do good damage, but the gap between good and awesome Affliction Warlocks will be quite large.  Balancing all of your DoTs with procs and boosting your Haunt uptime as high as possible will be how you make us get nerfed.  With good RNG on the 2pc, you're going to see high damage pushes.  With good RNG on the 4pc along with good RNG on Nightfall procs, you're going to see very high Haunt uptimes.

 

 

I totally agree. I don't see why these changes for affliction, buffing dots again just make me feel they don't have any idea how OP it can be at multi-target and make me remember the nerfs at corruption in the 2nd week of ToT BECAUSE the multi-dots.

 

I think that if affliction stay like this, with nerfedagain Gosac - at higher levels - the dmg will be just...OP. The combination of Gosac + Immersius Trinket just look great, and just a 10% nerf at Gosac compared with nowadays does not look enough, since with ilvl 545~ Gosac in single target starts to draw with Gosup.

 

And I feel that more than ever, Malefic grasp don't fit in that "new-old" affliction with powerful dots.

Edited August 16, 2013 by JvChequer

[vaeevictiss 17]

im completely fine with it haha. I remember back in vanilla when the dots were actually strong and could kill things on their own. There was never need for a focused filler. In PVP especially, people feared locks because they knew even if they killed one there was still a very high chance they would die. 

 

Its nice to see that come back to what it always should have been...our DoTs being our strength and doing heavy damage. Still, part of me likes MG, even tho priests practically do the same thing. Warlocks were always a drain spec, but back in the day it was DL. However, you didnt always need to be healing in PVE. In came shadowbolt as our filler, it was nice to be able to cast something. MG seems like it was just an excuse for aff locks to do something else. They came up with the idea that only Demo should use it. What they did then was make it so you HAD to use it to even be remotely competitive. 

 

The changes scaled it back, and once again put force in our DoTs, and i for one, am very happy with that.

Edited August 16, 2013 by vaeevictiss

[JvChequer 43]

I'd like to see Malefic grasp beeing removed and keep Drain Soul like it is.

 

I say: Just give us 2 more dots - 1 instant and one casted - to manage and remove Malefic grasp and we will be fine.

 

A new AOE spell would be great too.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I'd like to see Malefic grasp beeing removed and keep Drain Soul like it is.

 

I say: Just give us 2 more dots - 1 instant and one casted - to manage and remove Malefic grasp and we will be fine.

 

A new AOE spell would be great too.

i have been saying for years and years and years....GIVE US SHADOWBOLT VOLLEY!

 

I hate SoC with a passion, its too clunky and slow. All the bad ass demons in lore had shadowbolt volley. Just thinking about this really makes me miss my Cunning of the Cruel with a passion haha.

 

As for the extra dots, i would like that too. Siphon Life used to be its own dot.

Edited August 16, 2013 by vaeevictiss

[vaeevictiss 17]

I'd like to see Malefic grasp beeing removed and keep Drain Soul like it is.

 

I say: Just give us 2 more dots - 1 instant and one casted - to manage and remove Malefic grasp and we will be fine.

 

A new AOE spell would be great too.

(dunno what the hell is going on with the post above)

 

i have been saying for years and years and years....GIVE US SHADOWBOLT VOLLEY!

 

I hate SoC with a passion, its too clunky and slow. All the bad ass demons in lore had shadowbolt volley. Just thinking about this really makes me miss my Cunning of the Cruel with a passion haha.

 

As for the extra dots, i would like that too. Siphon Life used to be its own dot.

[Kaboozey 16]

To reiterate what I posted before, Critical hits are based on your unique %.  Most people at this ilvl completely unprioritizing Crit will see around 20-25%.  Getting that effect to trigger then does a RNG roll to see if the actual proc happens, which is 40%.  So the chance of you seeing a proc on any given UA tick is your Crit * 0.4.  For me, at 25.0%, the proc rate of any individual tick is 0.4 * 0.25 = 0.10, or 10%.  Increasing your Crit to 30% would make your proc chance per UA tick go up to 12%, a minor 2% increase, but costing you 3000 secondary stats that could be pushed into Haste or Mastery.

 

 

Math > All.

 

Okay.  So eff any chance of crit being worth a lick for Affliction.  Stupid bonus is stupid.  And as JV pointed out, it's even worse in multi-target situations.  Hopefully Demo + Mannoroth's Fury will be better for those situations anyway.  I still think the Demo bonuses are both fairly solid.  Getting a 2P proc with popped DSx2 + new trinket to apply a Super Doom + a slice of bacon (HoG proc) if you're super lucky while spamming ToC sounds pretty massive.  Then again, so does 90% uptime of Haunt debuff.

[Zagam 1,983]

The biggest thing to note is that Archimonde's Darkness will essentially only give you one additional Dark Soul per fight because it has a HoG recharging system.  It makes it very undesirable, much less than if the charge systems were unique to each cast.

 

Demonology will be pretty good, despite having lower damage, because it'll take MF and not rely on KJC at all thanks to Touch of Chaos.  Affliction MAY have to take KJC, but will still have to plant for Drain Soul, Haunt, and UA casts.  Empowering Seed for 10 seconds and boosting its damage by 100% is pretty solid, but it will be fight dependent.  I'll be updating the T16 guide as soon as I plow through SoO week 1. 

 

Manno's Fury is relatively crap for Destruction unless Rain of Fire's baseline damage is increased a good bit.  If they increase it too much, you'll need to keep it up during single target again, and blah to that.  For Demonology, it's said that Immo Aura and Hellfire are the only affected spells.  I'd MUCH prefer a buffed Shadowflame, but whatever.  I think the baseline talent to take will be AD, but MF will have its places for Demo and KJC might have its place for Affliction.

[vaeevictiss 17]

that is rather upsetting how AD works. I really wish i did the ptr this patch. lot of critical lock stuff. 

 

Looks like they just exchanged a crap talent for another crap talent. You mention empowering seed...does that also empower the corruptions that spread? if not i cannot see that being a massive change...it seemed like it already was one of the weakest AOEs out there.

[Zagam 1,983]

No, MF only empowers Seed of Corruption explosion, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire.  It'll be a lackluster talent for Destro/Aff.  It would be MUCH better in design, IMO, if it was 500% increased range passively and the damage modifier was a 10 sec duration, 60 sec CD, but what do I know?

[Soulzar 42]

The biggest thing to note is that Archimonde's Darkness will essentially only give you one additional Dark Soul per fight because it has a HoG recharging system.  It makes it very undesirable, much less than if the charge systems were unique to each cast.

 

 

While only one added DS a fight is nothing huge, I think the ability keep DS on cooldown every 2 mins as usual, while having that extra charged banked to used during a specific point in the fight where you need burst (procs, burn phase, hero) is going to be very powerful and allow us to maximize that extra DS.  AD will lose a bit of potency once we move away from 2pT15.

 

I personally am still not sold on the new MF.  Without any testing, it seems being able to bank DS for aoe burst will be more effective than short partial buff to aoe burst.   That said, doubling up DS with MF sounds sexy!

 

KJC seems good where they have it.

[vaeevictiss 17]

While only one added DS a fight is nothing huge, I think the ability keep DS on cooldown every 2 mins as usual, while having that extra charged banked to used during a specific point in the fight where you need burst (procs, burn phase, hero) is going to be very powerful and allow us to maximize that extra DS.  AD will lose a bit of potency once we move away from 2pT15.

 

I personally am still not sold on the new MF.  Without any testing, it seems being able to bank DS for aoe burst will be more effective than short partial buff to aoe burst.   That said, doubling up DS with MF sounds sexy!

 

KJC seems good where they have it.

that is true. As much as we try to make sure we have DS up for Hero/Zerk, it doesn't always happen. Its either on CD or you are waiting up to two minutes just to make sure you have it ready. Now, with the talent you are guaranteed to have it ready...i suppose it could be decent, but ya, at face value it doesn't seem to add a lot over added mobility.

[JvChequer 43]

Nowadays where AD would shine in TOT:

 

Jinrohk: First DS at pull and another at pool, it's a fast fight, the boost it's great.

Horridon: For Lust at War-god/Horridon at the end

Council: Inicial cleave of the 3 bosses to help zerging at beggining.

Tortos: End of the fight 20% with the dmg modifier.

Megaera: Lust or last head.

Ji-kun: Primal w/e buff but maybe MF would be better for soloing some nests easier.

Durumu: MF when icy walls show up. Forget AD.

Primordius: AD for double DS when lusting in the first transformation.

Dark Animus: AD for zerging or w/e

Iron Qon: AD for lusting/ when all dogs show up.

Twins: Zerging Fire bitch

Lei Shen: Dunno

Ra-den: Kill fastly any ball.

Edited August 16, 2013 by JvChequer

[Zagam 1,983]

Another iteration and no changes.  Sorry fans of Destruction, pick a new spec.  Looks like what is going on with Aff and Demo is going live in 5.4.

[JvChequer 43]

A couple sites in germany are saying that 5.4 is going out 10-11/09 so still hope destro-fans.

[Zagam 1,983]

PvP season ends the 27th.  I can't imagine they'll make people go 2 weeks without any PvP.  It's easy to leak that sort of information.  My computer already has the entire 5.4 patch downloaded...they'll just release a quick update and we'll be in.  I don't think it'll be delayed that long.  That'll just let people go play FF which Blizz doesn't want.

[Khaos 5]

i'm glad tbh , don't like destruction and i love demo.

[Omaric 246]

I'm going to go pure crit destruction and turn some heads.  Yea that's right!!

[Zagam 1,983]

Patch confirmed Sept 10, so definitely a chance for more iterations.  Building our loot table spreadsheet (as well as other classes) and will be offering this as a download for a guild management tool.  Screenshots coming as I complete it.

[Zagam 1,983]

Seriously though, Mastery scales CB better than Crit.  BOOM.

[Omaric 246]

But it doesn't scale with my super awesome consta-critting FnB Incinerates of Doom that spawn Cataclysm Imps whenever they crit.

 

Also, I will have ALL THE EMBERS!!!  Look at the set bonuses though.  They're definitely geared more towards giving you free crit, but when I have crit to begin with my crit gives me crit which crits on the crit and then EMBEEERRRRS!!!

[Narga 0]

But it doesn't scale with my super awesome consta-critting FnB Incinerates of Doom that spawn Cataclysm Imps whenever they crit.

 

Also, I will have ALL THE EMBERS!!!  Look at the set bonuses though.  They're definitely geared more towards giving you free crit, but when I have crit to begin with my crit gives me crit which crits on the crit and then EMBEEERRRRS!!!

Holy moly that critception!

[Zagam 1,983]

Go home, Omaric, you're drunk. 

 

Destro's set bonuses are bleh.  2pc is crud.  Gaddha and I were talking about the possibility of being forced to squeeze in a CB when an ember fills and how that would ruin stacking them for Dark Soul or other trinket procs.  Adds too much decision-making into a very small window of time.  The 4pc is solid, but the 2pc is crud.  Sadly, you might be onto something about stacking Crit to get more embers if they don't fix the current problem.  I suggested on the PTR that they bake the current T15 4pc bonus into the class (chance to give double embers on a Crit) and that would probably fix all the problems they have now.

[Furiyers 10]

But it doesn't scale with my super awesome consta-critting FnB Incinerates of Doom that spawn Cataclysm Imps whenever they crit.   Also, I will have ALL THE EMBERS!!!  Look at the set bonuses though.  They're definitely geared more towards giving you free crit, but when I have crit to begin with my crit gives me crit which crits on the crit and then EMBEEERRRRS!!!

 

yo dawg, i heard you like crit

Edited August 21, 2013 by Furiyers

[Omaric 246]

Go home, Omaric, you're drunk. 

 

Destro's set bonuses are bleh.  2pc is crud.  Gaddha and I were talking about the possibility of being forced to squeeze in a CB when an ember fills and how that would ruin stacking them for Dark Soul or other trinket procs.  Adds too much decision-making into a very small window of time.  The 4pc is solid, but the 2pc is crud.  Sadly, you might be onto something about stacking Crit to get more embers if they don't fix the current problem.  I suggested on the PTR that they bake the current T15 4pc bonus into the class (chance to give double embers on a Crit) and that would probably fix all the problems they have now.

 

I wish I was drunk.  Dat work.  Honestly I won't even be gaming the 4-piece to be used with CB.  I'll be using it with Conflagrate to get even more crit to get crits through Incinerate and Immolate.  My goal is to just be swimming in Embers and maybe I'll get some nice Multi-strike procs when I cast CB from that trinket.  That'd be neat.  Wow I'm actually kind of serious about this now, holy shit.

 

Also, there is a pretty good chance I'll be sipping on some vodka and joining you all this Friday.