orazzledazzle

Unholy DK DPS Help with Logs

6 posts in this topic

Hello there. I'm looking to try and improve my dps in raids. I'm not sure where too start or how too really read logs, but I do have links too them. Any tips or help is appreciated as I'm new too raiding and wow as a whole so I'd appreciate any advice I can get. Here's a link too my logs and my armory.

 

Logs - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2FrAqpGJ6RxW8XTf 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bf6kVyBmGJ7ZpQYN ( died on this fight)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/axMkYcyjgnG6X8B3

Armory - http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Kil'jaeden/valicia/

 

my user name is Valicia as you can see on the armory, but I don't know how to link to my specific character log, sorry about that.

Edited by orazzledazzle

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in general rotationally you seem to be doing fine. the first think that jumps out at me is talent choice. all will serve is best really for nythendra and ursoc only (maybe dragons) otherwise you want bursting sores. I saw you using all with serve on elete and on nythendra bursting sores. So, just making sure to bring single target talents to pure single target fights and aoe talents to fights with any cleave you should see some nice gains. 

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Alright thanks a lot for the feedback. I looked into boss fights and talents and was wondering if this looks better? Also was wondering if I Should be using Epidemic or PP for second talent? And in which case would I use epidemic? Like if I choose if for a specific fight, how many adds would I want my Plague too be on before actually casting Epidemic? 

Nythendra - All will serve and pestilent pustules, I noticed that my all will serve would follow me as I went out and dropped the rot. Is this because he has like super ultra range? Or he's just doesn't stay on the target if you're too far? In the case maybe I should drop a DaD on the boss when I run out? I know I refresh the plague right before I go out so I thought that would be enough too keep the extra minion up and on the boss but I occasionally see him follow me out.

Ursoc - All will serve and PP, I must have messed up rotation a lot or something?

Dragons - All will serve and PP, I was thinking maybe Epidemic might be better? With the cloned dragons and the add waves it might be a better DPS choice, but it would leave a decent amount of rune downtime so I wasn't sure. I'm not even sure if Epidemic is supposed too be in raids or just dungeons? 

Elerethe Reneferal - Busting Sores and Epidemic, I think I completely shit the bed on this one, I would try to use my epidemic on adds from a distance but my sores never actually got too them because adds are outside from the main boss and I didn't go up too the adds. Maybe I should have just went up too the adds and attacked them with both sores and epidemic? 

The Heart - Bursting sores and Epidemic, my damage decreased significantly on this fight compared too some fights and I think it's because I don't know how too use the Epidemic properly. I found myself using it on some of the tentacle things that popped outta the ground. Maybe I should be using DaD for those and festering them down? the only time I've popped up DaD is when all the iccers stack in front of the eye. 

Cenarius - Bursting Sores and PP, I picked PP for the burn phase at end and because there's usually only two adds up and it's only occasional. Do you think maybe All will serve will be better for this fight? My DPS shit the bed on this on, not sure why.

Xavius - Bursting sores and Epidemic, the DPS wasn't low but it wasn't where it should be, I see most DKs hitting 300k+ so I'm doing something wrong. Bursting sores definitely seems like the better choice, but I was wondering about epidemic? I think I over use it on all fights that I have it possibly in the wrong situations and that ruins my rotation a lot because I notice a lot more down time in being able too keep casting Death Coil and the strikes.

Here are my updated logs with new talents: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2tNKFAd4b1n98gRm/#type=summary&fight=1 

only DK in the logs now.

I'm using flasks, staying well fed and sometimes using Runes so I feel I'm under performing a lot with all those. Also popped some potions not sure if they were on killing blows or not. When I look at the damage done tab for my item level I'm very far behind so I have a lot too learn and hopefully improve

 

Simple question,

When using the rotation I would notice that sometimes soul reaper will come off cooldown and Apoc will be not too far behind it for cooldown or the Dark trans or any of my minion cooldowns are possibly coming off within 10 seconds of Soul Reaper being available. In this case would I want too wait for Apoc before using Soul Reaper?

Thanks a lot for whatever answers you may have and for taking your time too help me!

 

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TL;DR: Ur doing fine, core rotation has some improvement available, your weapon is shit for your ilvl so it lowers ur dps compared to same-leveled DK's and you still have some quick fixes with talents.

One thing to keep in mind when you think you're "shitting the bed", I'm assuming you're looking closely at your ilvl % compared to other Unholy DK's on ur ilvl range. You have a shitty legendary, and a really shitty weapon ilvl for your bracket. I'm at 862 and have a 891 weapon. Now I think I'm kind of "ahead" of my bracket but most people will probably have quite alot of ilvls higher on their artifact than on their gear average. 

Let's start with epidemic. I never use it in Emerald Nightmare. Yes, it's probably a big dps increase on eye. Might also be an increase on dragons. But since the little blobs on Eye are not important at all to burst quickly (for us), the increase is not worth it compared to priority damage. On dragons it's the same, we choose to burst the dragon images one by one to reduce tank damage so I don't need the AoE upgrade. It's probably not even a big dps upgrade if any. 

In general, I use All will Serve only on pure single target fights (Nythendra & Ursoc). All the others are Bursting Sores, as the single target is pretty close and the cleave increase is really noticable. 

General things: Your festering strike -> wounds -> SS core seems to be off on some of the fights. Popping of wounds is our main core of damage, so it's extremely important you don't waste any potential pops. SS on 4 or more, FS on 3 or less. 

It also seems like you cast alot more Death Coils than I do. Might be a difference in haste/stats but know that death coils is only really minor damage. You mostly use it for the rune regen & scourge strike buff. This also means that if there's no, 1 or 2 runes regenerating it's better to spend them before death coiling, even if u overcap on RP. Especially if you have the Scourge Strike buff already, it's better to keep scourge striking unless you have all 3 runes regenerating and they're not gonna activate before the GCD after death coil is gone. 

For your latest log:

Nythendra: Great DPS for your ilvl and gear (keeping the weapon in mind mostly). The skulker I'm not sure actually, since I mostly tank this boss.

Ursoc: What's really weird to me is how your bloodlust damage is so low. For me it's an extreme increase in DPS just popping wounds all the time. This is your entire guild by the way who is not increasing their damage at all. Might have been extremely messy? For me I also have a lot lower damage on Scourge Strike, it's really about the festering wounds. I see you have about a 2-1 ratio for wounds and scourge strike. With Castigator you always have 2 pops, with chance of 3 or 4 (with crits). With 25% crit you should have about 3 pops on average. This would have greatly increased your damage. Really try to only SS with 4 or more wounds, festering with 3 or less.

Dragons: (take bursting sores & PP) Hard to judge because it varies on the drakes, there's possibly alot of downtime etc. Again the wounds compared to scourge strike really stands out. Might also be because you tried to cleave adds alot which messes up your stacks often. I usually don't even bother with single low health adds since it takes some time to ramp up damage and my raid bursts them quick enough. Only with multiple adds relatively stacked I tend to D&D, Festering one of them and pop the wounds. With Bursting Sores this can give good damage because of the SS aoe and wound aoe. 

Elethendre: (bursting sores & PP) I always go on adds (the small spiders), which I believe is always a high priority target for the full raid as they really damage the tanks (because of the bonds). I always try while the tank is still grouping them to get some festering wounds up on one of them, then when they are in position D&D and SS to pop the wounds. Key with those low-health adds is to get stacks on them asap, before they die. Your scourge strike compared to wounds is good here, but there's not alot of scourge strikes compared to the fight length. I'm also imagining seeing ur raid & general skill distribution there was alot of unnecessary movement and chaos. Also, always try to claim a feather. We're the slowest class in the game and you need some DPS to jump anyway. (we send 1 tank 2 healers rest dps).

Heart: (bursting sores & PP, though epidemic offers highest DPS) Don't look at your bracket % here, as people who use epidemic can potentially have way higher DPS because of the blobs. Noone gives a shit about those, it's about priority damage and heart damage. 
I can't really judge this fight based on your talents, but same rule applies. Single target priority target matters most, if there is AOE on blobs or tentacles build stacks on one, drop D&D, burst it with scourge. 

Cenarius: (I use bursting sores, but All Will Serve could be good if ur raid needs prio damage. Bursting Sores has higher DPS). Not sure what went wrong here looking at your DPS. I'm fairly close to my Nythendra dps. Pop a new disease on the boss whenever u need to move, make sure u use the cleave rotation when there's multiple adds and try to keep our cooldowns fluent. I see you missed 2 soul reapers and 1 apocalypse. Yes, it's worth it to delay Apocalypse to get in a soul reaper with it, but it's never worth it to miss a cast. If you messed up your timers because of movement, just use apocalypse without a Soul Reaper and use Soul Reaper on cooldown even if not synced. 

Xavius: (Bursting Sores + PP) People can probably cheese massively with Epidemic in the tentacle phase, but everyone ignores them anyway so there's absolutely no reason for you to damage them. Could massively influence the meters of other DK's as well. Honestly think your DPS here is spot on considering your ilvl, but it's hard to judge with epidemic. Your core rotation here seems really solid, but epidemic wasn't worth it damage wise and is not a good talent here anyway. 

Ur quick question about SR/Apocalypse: Dark Transformation doesn't matter unless you have the legendary that boosts it (shoulders I believe). I have them synced up whenever possible (on fights like ursoc/nythendra this is always, on other fights it might get messed up. The waiting max is about 5 seconds, otherwise it's usually not worth it. Also depends on the fight and duration ofcourse. If you mess up the first one but it's a fight without alot of movement and you have 5 minutes left you need to wait, because otherwise it's going to be out of sync for the entire fight. On for example Cenarius I would never wait, as it probably will correct itself for the next one as there is so much movement. 
 

Edited by Impurex

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On 10/17/2016 at 5:45 PM, Impurex said:

TL;DR: Ur doing fine, core rotation has some improvement available, your weapon is shit for your ilvl so it lowers ur dps compared to same-leveled DK's and you still have some quick fixes with talents.

One thing to keep in mind when you think you're "shitting the bed", I'm assuming you're looking closely at your ilvl % compared to other Unholy DK's on ur ilvl range. You have a shitty legendary, and a really shitty weapon ilvl for your bracket. I'm at 862 and have a 891 weapon. Now I think I'm kind of "ahead" of my bracket but most people will probably have quite alot of ilvls higher on their artifact than on their gear average. 

Let's start with epidemic. I never use it in Emerald Nightmare. Yes, it's probably a big dps increase on eye. Might also be an increase on dragons. But since the little blobs on Eye are not important at all to burst quickly (for us), the increase is not worth it compared to priority damage. On dragons it's the same, we choose to burst the dragon images one by one to reduce tank damage so I don't need the AoE upgrade. It's probably not even a big dps upgrade if any. 

In general, I use All will Serve only on pure single target fights (Nythendra & Ursoc). All the others are Bursting Sores, as the single target is pretty close and the cleave increase is really noticable. 

General things: Your festering strike -> wounds -> SS core seems to be off on some of the fights. Popping of wounds is our main core of damage, so it's extremely important you don't waste any potential pops. SS on 4 or more, FS on 3 or less. 

It also seems like you cast alot more Death Coils than I do. Might be a difference in haste/stats but know that death coils is only really minor damage. You mostly use it for the rune regen & scourge strike buff. This also means that if there's no, 1 or 2 runes regenerating it's better to spend them before death coiling, even if u overcap on RP. Especially if you have the Scourge Strike buff already, it's better to keep scourge striking unless you have all 3 runes regenerating and they're not gonna activate before the GCD after death coil is gone. 

For your latest log:

Nythendra: Great DPS for your ilvl and gear (keeping the weapon in mind mostly). The skulker I'm not sure actually, since I mostly tank this boss.

Ursoc: What's really weird to me is how your bloodlust damage is so low. For me it's an extreme increase in DPS just popping wounds all the time. This is your entire guild by the way who is not increasing their damage at all. Might have been extremely messy? For me I also have a lot lower damage on Scourge Strike, it's really about the festering wounds. I see you have about a 2-1 ratio for wounds and scourge strike. With Castigator you always have 2 pops, with chance of 3 or 4 (with crits). With 25% crit you should have about 3 pops on average. This would have greatly increased your damage. Really try to only SS with 4 or more wounds, festering with 3 or less.

Dragons: (take bursting sores & PP) Hard to judge because it varies on the drakes, there's possibly alot of downtime etc. Again the wounds compared to scourge strike really stands out. Might also be because you tried to cleave adds alot which messes up your stacks often. I usually don't even bother with single low health adds since it takes some time to ramp up damage and my raid bursts them quick enough. Only with multiple adds relatively stacked I tend to D&D, Festering one of them and pop the wounds. With Bursting Sores this can give good damage because of the SS aoe and wound aoe. 

Elethendre: (bursting sores & PP) I always go on adds (the small spiders), which I believe is always a high priority target for the full raid as they really damage the tanks (because of the bonds). I always try while the tank is still grouping them to get some festering wounds up on one of them, then when they are in position D&D and SS to pop the wounds. Key with those low-health adds is to get stacks on them asap, before they die. Your scourge strike compared to wounds is good here, but there's not alot of scourge strikes compared to the fight length. I'm also imagining seeing ur raid & general skill distribution there was alot of unnecessary movement and chaos. Also, always try to claim a feather. We're the slowest class in the game and you need some DPS to jump anyway. (we send 1 tank 2 healers rest dps).

Heart: (bursting sores & PP, though epidemic offers highest DPS) Don't look at your bracket % here, as people who use epidemic can potentially have way higher DPS because of the blobs. Noone gives a shit about those, it's about priority damage and heart damage. 
I can't really judge this fight based on your talents, but same rule applies. Single target priority target matters most, if there is AOE on blobs or tentacles build stacks on one, drop D&D, burst it with scourge. 

Cenarius: (I use bursting sores, but All Will Serve could be good if ur raid needs prio damage. Bursting Sores has higher DPS). Not sure what went wrong here looking at your DPS. I'm fairly close to my Nythendra dps. Pop a new disease on the boss whenever u need to move, make sure u use the cleave rotation when there's multiple adds and try to keep our cooldowns fluent. I see you missed 2 soul reapers and 1 apocalypse. Yes, it's worth it to delay Apocalypse to get in a soul reaper with it, but it's never worth it to miss a cast. If you messed up your timers because of movement, just use apocalypse without a Soul Reaper and use Soul Reaper on cooldown even if not synced. 

Xavius: (Bursting Sores + PP) People can probably cheese massively with Epidemic in the tentacle phase, but everyone ignores them anyway so there's absolutely no reason for you to damage them. Could massively influence the meters of other DK's as well. Honestly think your DPS here is spot on considering your ilvl, but it's hard to judge with epidemic. Your core rotation here seems really solid, but epidemic wasn't worth it damage wise and is not a good talent here anyway. 

Ur quick question about SR/Apocalypse: Dark Transformation doesn't matter unless you have the legendary that boosts it (shoulders I believe). I have them synced up whenever possible (on fights like ursoc/nythendra this is always, on other fights it might get messed up. The waiting max is about 5 seconds, otherwise it's usually not worth it. Also depends on the fight and duration ofcourse. If you mess up the first one but it's a fight without alot of movement and you have 5 minutes left you need to wait, because otherwise it's going to be out of sync for the entire fight. On for example Cenarius I would never wait, as it probably will correct itself for the next one as there is so much movement. 
 

Alright thanks a lot for your response, it helped a ton! Learnt a lot that I didn't actually think of before while playing DK, the day you wrote this I had a raid later that night so my first time listening too your way of applying the wounds helped a lot I think. 

 

So before I read what you wrote I would stack my wounds up to 6-8 and then pop them with SS all the way down until I have no wounds left on the target, but from what I read and think I'm understanding is that when we have 6-8 wounds we start popping so we don't overstack them? But along with that, when we are popping them as soon as we are 3 or less we go right back into FS too get back into the 6-8 range? And repeat that I'm thinking is what you're also saying? Just confirming that I'm understanding correctly, but after reading that and applying that in my raid it makes a lot more sense then what I doing doing.

 

So when you were talking about Death Coil, the only real time we want too use it is when it procs up? I noticed prior too reading what you wrote I would be using death coil a ton, but after applying the wound strategy, I wouldn't need to use death coil as much, so I think that may have been the problem with me using death coil too much. I still don't completely understand what you are talking about the 3 runes regenerating with death coil usage. But one thing I think I'm getting out of this is that if I'm under three wounds and I can't apply anymore for whatever reason, I'm better too pop them than I am too use Death Coil?

Here is an attachment too my latest logs for heroic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1hxj9c8QPkwCazDF/#fight=1   

I asked the raid leader to include the wipes on Ursoc, mainly because I felt like I was struggling a ton on the fight compared too the other two fights, I'm not sure why as I figured I should be able the same as on the Nyth fight. They were all wipes so that could play part in it, but I still feel like even if I could have preformed better they may not have been wipes because some were very close, even managed too wipe on 0% some how. Other than against Ursoc I feel I improved implementing what you wrote, and hopefully with more practice with the method I used I should improve even more. Literally raid was like minutes after I read what you wrote so I'm excited try again on next raid night. I appreciate everything you wrote because I can already feel a big difference in performance and I can't thank you enough! 

 

 

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For Scourge Strike - Festering Strike:

Scourge Strike bursts one festering wound. Include Castigator and it adds one for a critical hit. Now, Scourge Strike has 2 damage moments, a physical and a shadow one. So if both of those crit you can get 3 wounds to burst (initial + 2 crits). This is why we never Scourge Strike when we have less than 3 wounds. Festering Strike procs 2-4 festering wounds, but when you add castigator it can add a maximum of 2 wounds. This means it's 2-6 wounds. This created the ideal breakpoint of casting Scourge Strike at 4 or more, and Festering at 3 or less. It's just an optimal way to burst as many wounds as possible and overcapping the least.
note: This only changes for Apocalypse, where you want to have 7-8 wounds at least. So if Apocalypse is coming off cooldown, you use festering strike untill you have at least 7 stacks (yes, also cast it at 6 wounds). 

With Death Coil: it makes sense that you're casting less now that your rotation is more solid. Don't worry too much about the 3 runes regenerating stuff, this is just min-maxing (slight increases to reach a theoretical cap), but it's not a big deal. Just know that death coil is one of the lowest damage dealing abilities, and it's only used to get us rune regeneration (through runic corruption, when ur runes start regenning like crazy) and the Scourge Strike buff. This means it's still really important, just don't delay your Apocalypse, Soul Reaper, Dark Transformation or Gargoyle. And in AoE or Cleave, don't even delay your DnD and AoE rotation for it. It's just not worth it.

You can see from your logs that your rotation is improving. Wounds are top DPS as they should be, although on ursoc you see there is still improvement possible. Just keep this stuff in mind for a few raids and you will see your dps & rotation improving. 

Oh, and you must have been screaming as hell on that Ursoc 0% enrage wipe. Sad stuff bro...

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