meditate

H Helya dps drop

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http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9m7pf3vn2e11f1w8/details/12/#tab-dmgspell

 

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/M%C3%A8ditate/simple

 

 

above is my log , when i open on helya my dps is vgood,but 30 seconds within the fight it is dropping from 300k+ to ~ 210k. and im fully flasked,pot,food

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On 12/14/2016 at 2:33 PM, spikeysquad said:

Hi Meditate,

Need a log from Warcraftlogs.com if I am to read it.

sure thing, this was for the first 2 miins on H helya

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/21GmaCzfTkDHPpRj#type=damage-done&source=2

H cenarius 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q82fHh4rJWabMLvx#type=damage-done&source=1

 

H Xav

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3MjFxpZTfDcgJRKN#type=damage-done&source=14

 

when im opening with immo, conflag, cb,cb dps doesnt even go above 200k

 

when im opening with doomguard "25sec" ,rift,rift,rift, immo,confl, cb ,congla cb cb , incen  ...dps goes up to 350k something , then drops to 200 - 210k 

 

 

i know my haste is still @ 20% but i still should be doing decent damage as a 875 ilvl

 

 

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7 hours ago, meditate said:

when im opening with immo, conflag, cb,cb dps doesnt even go above 200k

 

when im opening with doomguard "25sec" ,rift,rift,rift, immo,confl, cb ,congla cb cb , incen  ...dps goes up to 350k something , then drops to 200 - 210k 

 

 

i know my haste is still @ 20% but i still should be doing decent damage as a 875 ilvl

 

 

We have already been through the opener so not going to go there again apart from to say you are ignoring nearly all of the top parsing locks. Burst damage is not everything, slightly lower but longer sustained damage can net a lot more. Your choice though.

I am not sure how it is even possible to get to 875 with only 20% haste unless you perhaps got boosted in raids/mythics a lot. Getting a whole bunch of 20-30 item level upgrades would yes weigh out gear with haste I guess. Obvious but get a lot more haste. Your shard regen is awful.

Xavius log:

Missing 2 enchants.

No flask used.

Only one Draenic potion used (Potion of Prolonged Power are so cheap and easy to get as you probably have Blood of Sargeras from dungeons and what not). If you want to use 2 then do the first pre-pull.

Frequent casting gaps. One was for 12 seconds. Xavius is a low movement fight (unless you have to soak puddles). If you have a stack area for Blades you want to be near there or have your circle down. For Bonds you shouldn't have to move too much.

Overall Immolate uptime 83%, on Xavius: 78%. This should never fall off. Immolate fell off the Corruption Horror twice,

Havoc on Xavius during big add uptime was pretty good until the end when you recasted too early. Later on you recasted Havoc at least 10 times too early (often doing 2-3 Havoc in a row)

6 wasted shards. You spent a long time capped during your big casting gap. 

Don't chain cast CBs as you could have got slightly higher Eradication uptime. That is really low though due to your lack of shard regen.

I personally would suggest to not chain cast Rifts either (as you do not have a damage proc trinket). Keep one back for movement. At one point you casted 3 in a row so that says you were capped as well.

At one point no Conflag cast for 25 seconds so you would have been capped and missed some casts.

No Infernal use. 

Lack of Immolate casts on Tentacles (but not essential). In theory if you DoT a few you should be able to get more CBs into Xavius.

To get super high DPS on this fight you want to get mind controlled during the dream phase for the damage boost but it's not often worth running all over for corruption now either.

Heyla:

A 1:54 minute log is not much to work with but here we go.

Same issues of casting gaps so minimise movement. If slightly lost and in doubt what to do with your rotation be spamming that Incinerate key (or clicking on it if you haven't keybinded) until you get in the flow again. 

Late GoServ cast at 58 seconds.

Casted Havoc on Heyla then 11 seconds later you're moving it onto a slime. (Putting it on a slime to begin is good if you need the damage there but don't use more GCDs than you have to)

3 shards wasted.

Anyhow not a lot to go on. Destro is not a good ST spec but once you get enough damage in on the slimes and the big adds you should pick up again.

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9 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

We have already been through the opener so not going to go there again apart from to say you are ignoring nearly all of the top parsing locks. Burst damage is not everything, slightly lower but longer sustained damage can net a lot more. Your choice though.

I am not sure how it is even possible to get to 875 with only 20% haste unless you perhaps got boosted in raids/mythics a lot. Getting a whole bunch of 20-30 item level upgrades would yes weigh out gear with haste I guess. Obvious but get a lot more haste. Your shard regen is awful.

Xavius log:

Missing 2 enchants.

No flask used.

Only one Draenic potion used (Potion of Prolonged Power are so cheap and easy to get as you probably have Blood of Sargeras from dungeons and what not). If you want to use 2 then do the first pre-pull.

Frequent casting gaps. One was for 12 seconds. Xavius is a low movement fight (unless you have to soak puddles). If you have a stack area for Blades you want to be near there or have your circle down. For Bonds you shouldn't have to move too much.

Overall Immolate uptime 83%, on Xavius: 78%. This should never fall off. Immolate fell off the Corruption Horror twice,

Havoc on Xavius during big add uptime was pretty good until the end when you recasted too early. Later on you recasted Havoc at least 10 times too early (often doing 2-3 Havoc in a row)

6 wasted shards. You spent a long time capped during your big casting gap. 

Don't chain cast CBs as you could have got slightly higher Eradication uptime. That is really low though due to your lack of shard regen.

I personally would suggest to not chain cast Rifts either (as you do not have a damage proc trinket). Keep one back for movement. At one point you casted 3 in a row so that says you were capped as well.

At one point no Conflag cast for 25 seconds so you would have been capped and missed some casts.

No Infernal use. 

Lack of Immolate casts on Tentacles (but not essential). In theory if you DoT a few you should be able to get more CBs into Xavius.

To get super high DPS on this fight you want to get mind controlled during the dream phase for the damage boost but it's not often worth running all over for corruption now either.

Heyla:

A 1:54 minute log is not much to work with but here we go.

Same issues of casting gaps so minimise movement. If slightly lost and in doubt what to do with your rotation be spamming that Incinerate key (or clicking on it if you haven't keybinded) until you get in the flow again. 

Late GoServ cast at 58 seconds.

Casted Havoc on Heyla then 11 seconds later you're moving it onto a slime. (Putting it on a slime to begin is good if you need the damage there but don't use more GCDs than you have to)

3 shards wasted.

Anyhow not a lot to go on. Destro is not a good ST spec but once you get enough damage in on the slimes and the big adds you should pick up again.

thx alot for the info, i did some geear change , dropped fro 875 to 872 , but haste went up to 26% w/o any food buffs

 

so fingers crossed

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6 hours ago, meditate said:

downed heroic  helya , but was still struggling with dps, although i was fully flasked,potion,and food

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4wYx6vBTqhA7XbjZ#type=damage-done&source=18

 

 

started at almost 280-300 and went down to 190k at the end of the fight, haste was ~ 27%

I'll reply properly later but what made you choose GoSup?

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5 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

I'll reply properly later but what made you choose GoSup?

figured with the fight being lengthy i dont want to keep wasting time poping cd's..so gosup felt  better than service.

today i switched my 870 mastery chest qith an 845 haste chest ...im at 28% w/o food.

wanna give helya another go before the reset tomoŕow and see what happens..i respeced my talent with gosrvce...maybe something else will change

 

 

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Grats on your kill. Had a busy day so not got around to really looking yet however, Immolate more and don't ever let it fall off the main targets, Then you should be able CB more (especially with Havoc).

Again try not to move Havoc around so much or double/triple cast in short succession. 

Good luck. Give GoSac a whirl too. A pet may work better for you though hence try and see. 

 

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6 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

Grats on your kill. Had a busy day so not got around to really looking yet however, Immolate more and don't ever let it fall off the main targets, Then you should be able CB more (especially with Havoc).

Again try not to move Havoc around so much or double/triple cast in short succession. 

Good luck. Give GoSac a whirl too. A pet may work better for you though hence try and see. 

 

da thing with immo and all the movement going its hard to keep it on on all targets all the way.

 

anyways i finished my weapons artificat and im doing the 5 % increase damage.. so hopefully at lvl 34 and 36 dps will onc more.

tried gosac on a raider dummy in rift zone...dps was v bad like 180k after 3 mins.

was thinking about demo spec..but fukc that..ill need to respec to mastery ,get better artificats and get meself better with demo rotation

 

 

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Yes it is hard but you probably can get a better uptime if you really focus on it. 

Aye, the 5% is win.

GoSac last time I simmed was actually only like 2% behind GoServ though I have never actually tested this on a dummy. However, like I said sometimes pet support, especially on a higher movement fight, can be better than the passive cleave (and Helya your focus is probably on big adds or tentacles anyhow).

Demo is a very strong ST spec if you do not have to move much (so not Helya then). The gear set is very similar to a Destro one though usually slightly heavier haste and lower crit. Mastery is for Affliction. 

 

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1 hour ago, spikeysquad said:

Yes it is hard but you probably can get a better uptime if you really focus on it. 

Aye, the 5% is win.

GoSac last time I simmed was actually only like 2% behind GoServ though I have never actually tested this on a dummy. However, like I said sometimes pet support, especially on a higher movement fight, can be better than the passive cleave (and Helya your focus is probably on big adds or tentacles anyhow).

Demo is a very strong ST spec if you do not have to move much (so not Helya then). The gear set is very similar to a Destro one though usually slightly heavier haste and lower crit. Mastery is for Affliction. 

 

 

 

well im doing different rotations when it comes to my des talent tree, just to see what fits me best.

 

regarding simc,  it throws numbers that doesnt make any sense, when it comes to gear, cause i see what it tells me , i adjust accordingly on raid dummy and the numbers are way way way off.

i think locks are just bad when it comes to damage.

 M. Helya as Des. lock

#1 damage = 650k @ 890 ilvl  priest 

#62 des lock = 538k @ 890 ilvl

M. Guarm as demo lock 

#1 damage = 670k @ 890 ilvl  priest

#92 damage = 580k @ 892 ilvl 

although average dps for past two weeks shows at 466k

 

and when you go and check on warcraft logs for dps per ilvl itll give you a totally different number . shit is frustrating lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, meditate said:

 

 

well im doing different rotations when it comes to my des talent tree, just to see what fits me best.

 

regarding simc,  it throws numbers that doesnt make any sense, when it comes to gear, cause i see what it tells me , i adjust accordingly on raid dummy and the numbers are way way way off.

i think locks are just bad when it comes to damage.

 M. Helya as Des. lock

#1 damage = 650k @ 890 ilvl  priest 

#62 des lock = 538k @ 890 ilvl

M. Guarm as demo lock 

#1 damage = 670k @ 890 ilvl  priest

#92 damage = 580k @ 892 ilvl 

although average dps for past two weeks shows at 466k

 

and when you go and check on warcraft logs for dps per ilvl itll give you a totally different number . shit is frustrating lol

 

Warlocks overall are decent as casters in my opinion and on some fights really shine. Priests have already been addressed by Blizz and are getting significant changes. It will be nice to be able to beat ours more except for just when they fail at S2M. Then again I'm pretty sure they are a superior player to me so maybe not but it will depend on the fine tuning.

Try a boomy, elemental or even a hunter (not a caster but still a ranged). You are limiting yourself a bit though if you are only playing one spec at the moment as they all have their strengths and weaknesses but it makes sense to learn one spec decently before branching out.

Do you have Skada? Or perhaps Details? If so keep an eye on your Immolate uptime or even upload dummy logs. I have always found SimulationCraft to be pretty accurate on the whole for me so I tend to think you are still doing something wrong either with the program or your rotation however it is only as good as its APL. Are you using the SimC addon in game to get your gear/relics/traits etc?

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On 12/20/2016 at 4:07 AM, meditate said:

i think locks are just bad when it comes to damage.

You are wrong.

 

On 12/20/2016 at 4:07 AM, meditate said:

i think locks are just bad when it comes to damage.

 M. Helya as Des. lock

#1 damage = 650k @ 890 ilvl  priest 

#62 des lock = 538k @ 890 ilvl

M. Guarm as demo lock 

#1 damage = 670k @ 890 ilvl  priest

#92 damage = 580k @ 892 ilvl 

You're radically misunderstanding the situation. Shadow Priest is an outlier and is being addressed in the next patch. As a whole, warlock is very strong and in very high demand by raid groups.

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23 minutes ago, Lockybalboa said:

You are wrong.

 

You're radically misunderstanding the situation. Shadow Priest is an outlier and is being addressed in the next patch. As a whole, warlock is very strong and in very high demand by raid groups.

you a lock ? if yes what i lvl? do you have logs?

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39 minutes ago, meditate said:

890@366k "https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yJTz9HwanqvWd8L3"

 

you consider this good? the #1 dps@565k was a MM hunter @ 887ilvl

 

Progression kill, non padding, zero legendaries for the spec, sub 10 pulls on that as Aff, literally my first aff progression kill this tier. ...ya, it isn't bad damage.

"Good" dps doesn't always mean "Top" dps. There are dozen of factors that go into DPS and they all matter, not just the final number.

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18 minutes ago, Lockybalboa said:

Progression kill, non padding, zero legendaries for the spec, sub 10 pulls on that as Aff, literally my first aff progression kill this tier. ...ya, it isn't bad damage.

"Good" dps doesn't always mean "Top" dps. There are dozen of factors that go into DPS and they all matter, not just the final number.

 

 

i understand and you have a point, but at raids, everyone is looking at top dps numbers whether we like it or not.

 

so say we running a 2,5,13, with an average ilvl of 888-890 ,if the #1 dps is 600k and #13 dps is 500k the mean value is acceptable for all dps , but when the first 10  dps is 500-600k right under the bell curve and locks being <=400k it means locks are under performing.

 

 

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If that was the case for every fight or even most fights, I might agree with you. But that just isnt true.

1. The curve is generally longer, but that is partly because of outliers like Shadow Priest.

2. Warlock HIGHLY depends on the fight and the spec, we're the only DPS class in the game right now that has such a massive difference between our spec's strengths and what fight is good for what. As a mythic raiding warlock, we're required to have two specs. That means double the RNG for legendaries, double the gear, double the traits, etc.

 

But the thing is, even if you have 1 spec that has 5-10 more traits and good legendaries, whereas the other spec doesn't - you're still raid viable. What other class currently can raid in their off spec and still be competitive with half the traits/legendaries? No one. That is how good warlocks are in their niches.

 

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1 hour ago, Lockybalboa said:

If that was the case for every fight or even most fights, I might agree with you. But that just isnt true.

1. The curve is generally longer, but that is partly because of outliers like Shadow Priest.

2. Warlock HIGHLY depends on the fight and the spec, we're the only DPS class in the game right now that has such a massive difference between our spec's strengths and what fight is good for what. As a mythic raiding warlock, we're required to have two specs. That means double the RNG for legendaries, double the gear, double the traits, etc.

 

But the thing is, even if you have 1 spec that has 5-10 more traits and good legendaries, whereas the other spec doesn't - you're still raid viable. What other class currently can raid in their off spec and still be competitive with half the traits/legendaries? No one. That is how good warlocks are in their niches.

 

 

 

answering your #1, check all raids per guild , not per general damage on warcraftlogs, youll see having priests wont effect the final outcome

#2 having two specs wont work, because one needs to be topped out on haste and the other "in this case  demo" needs to be topped out with mastery . and this means gems need to be changed. 

 

show me any guild raid were warlocks arent #6 or #7 on the dps charts when it comes to top tier guilds "and i say top tier because we know these guilds will have all their toons well geared and none will be under geared 

 

 

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Shadow Priests are hands down the best ST damage in the game right now, there is no argument to be made that they aren't.

I have two specs. I know at least 5 other warlocks that have two specs. I've spoken to about a dozen in top progression guilds that all have two specs. Having two specs isn't remotely hard. Personally, I have like 3 gem sockets. *If* those are the wrong stat for me, but I'm still using the ring itself, then I'll survive having 600 -/+ of a stat I love/hate.

Demo doesn't stack mastery...ever. If you're stacking mastery as demo, that is why your damage is bad. Destro/Demo use basically the same stat weights, Aff requires different gearing though but with M+ and farming raids, it isn't hard to gear two specs.

Why would you think that #6 or 7 out of 14 DPS means warlocks are bad? And again, where you fall on DPS in the raid radically depends on dozens of factors. If you're going by top parses right now, you'll find wildly misleading information since "top guilds" are all in farm mode.

Warlock is one of the most in demand classes for recruitment right now, just like they have been almost consistently for years. 

You seem totally convinced that warlocks are bad, that's fine. Incorrect, but fine. If you feel that way, reroll. I wish you luck and happy raiding.

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5 hours ago, meditate said:

...

#2 having two specs wont work, because one needs to be topped out on haste and the other "in this case  demo" needs to be topped out with mastery . and this means gems need to be changed. 

...

 

Well...Locky said it...Locks got different specs with their own usability. Getting the items isn´t really hard...M+ and many EN-HC-Farm-Raids are available at this time and if you know your class, you should know your ups and downs.

Why do many people think it is the most important thing to stand on top of the DPS? Sure...bursting 500-600-700k DPS is quite nice...but bursting is definitly not everything. As long as you can help your raid in progress...you´re doing your job.

I´m playing Aff....i definitly can´t burst...i need time...but then i can reach 375k+ DPS without any problems...if the encounter allows it. If your DPS helps the raid to kill an encounter, be happy, get your loot and try to improve yourself.

EDIT: Oh i forgot...I CAN BURST! Give me a M+ with teeming and a skilled tank (for nice mass-pulls) an i burst 2-3m DPS :D ok...the fight is over after 10sec but hey...if personal DPS is the most important thing... ;)

As Locky said it:

7 hours ago, Lockybalboa said:

2. Warlock HIGHLY depends on the fight and the spec, we're the only DPS class in the game right now that has such a massive difference between our spec's strengths and what fight is good for what.

If you got that serious problems with your Lock...you should rework...or reroll...its not the class...it´s the player who makes the DPS...and Locks can push damage. Combine the right spec with the right fight and you can climb up the most "important" thing...the personal DPS meter ;)

Edited by Devkarin
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Lots of great points. Meditate I had already told you that you need haste and not mastery for Demo. If people take the time to reply you really should actually try to take in what they are saying...

I also play two specs well. AP is not a factor either. I am only 3 points/1.5% behind on my main spec behind the highest one in guild and I have 37, 35, 26 and a ton in the bank until I decide the way forward in Nighthold and don't worry about wasting it.

35 minutes ago, Devkarin said:

As long as you can help your raid in progress...you´re doing your job.

I really agree with this. Heroic Helya is actually a really relevant example. I am not top but I am super strong on Slimes, Tentacles and Mariner etc. Know your strengths and what is needed in the fight to progress and go for it.

39 minutes ago, Devkarin said:

Combine the right spec with the right fight and you can climb up the most important thing...the personal DPS meter ;)

This is so true. In Legion I started raiding with a different lock and he is so skilled and fast. I've never actually been the worst at my class before so I did struggle for a while and my confidence took a severe nose dive but I finally remembered that the most important person to compare myself with is myself to see how I am progressing. Though of course for log comparisons you want the top logs and overall warlock/item level percentiles give you a decent guide of how you are doing (though legendaries have some relevance). The competition though is actually a really positive thing and it is making me try harder and play better than I ever have before! 

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@meditate  i saw something in yer post that i dont agree on

On ‎22‎-‎12‎-‎2016 at 4:52 AM, meditate said:

i understand and you have a point, but at raids, everyone is looking at top dps numbers whether we like it or not.

this should not be true

i am a raid leader and i check performance overall
if you have a dps that tops the meters but is standing in shit he eats mana from healers wich will take away heals from tanks wich could mean a whipe  etc.

i mean you can top meters but a good player or good dps is more than just topping meters

a dead dps is no dps at all.

rather move from crap on floor than top the meters

a raid is a team effort yes dps helps but its a complete picture if someone is focussing on dps meters only they should get a reality check

i feel yer pain in thinking  locks underperform but as mentioned before there are fights where i top the meters (destro lock)  and other fights im bottom (sometimes RNG is a biatch aswell)

aslong as you kill it as a team it doesnt matter.

(just my 2 cents on the matter)

Edited by Rankrage

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