Damien

Heroes of the Storm Ragnaros

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This thread is for comments about our Ragnaros build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Hey!

Please add short description after builds name. For example "Empower Sulfuras Build - high single target damage" or "Living Meteor Build - lane cleaner" or something like that for quick reference. Thank you.

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I know he's a relatively new hero, and this may be TBC, but are there any situational comments for each talent pick (beyond e.g. L16 if there are 2 tanks or high health pool like Az) that you would choose "Giant Scorcher" Talent. I'm particularly interested in advice around the L4 talent pick between Fire Ward and Catching Fire.... which may come down to if your team vs opponent team have more early or late surging heroes.

Love the commentaries, especially the ones from you and Straften, keep up the good work.

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My favorite build is engulfing flame, slow burn, super heated, lava wave, tempered flame, blast echo, and heroic difficulty allowing me to slow chase and wave clear all with one ability at level 20 i can wipe an entire team if there is a good stun.

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On 12/19/2016 at 4:32 AM, Kiarbitrager said:

I know he's a relatively new hero, and this may be TBC, but are there any situational comments for each talent pick (beyond e.g. L16 if there are 2 tanks or high health pool like Az) that you would choose "Giant Scorcher" Talent. I'm particularly interested in advice around the L4 talent pick between Fire Ward and Catching Fire.... which may come down to if your team vs opponent team have more early or late surging heroes.

Love the commentaries, especially the ones from you and Straften, keep up the good work.

The Talents page should have some more info about those.

I personally like Catching Fire when I know I'll be laning for a while; that regen goes a long way, and the on-demand resistant is nice versus burst. Fire Ward is a good choice against double caster comps, especially if they have stuns to trigger Resilient Flame. I wish I could say more, but I haven't quite figured it out myself; still, I follow these trends and do rather well.

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I think Empower Sulfurus is the right call 80% of the time, since you get some sustain off of the Sulfurus and it combos with Sulfurus Smash to dish out tons of damage.  I'm wondering exactly when it makes sense to go with meteor build. 

For example, I had a game recently where I first picked Rag on Blackheart's Bay.  The enemy countered with Tracer, Lunara, Lucio, and Muradin (can't recall who the fifth member was).  So basically, lots of mobility to kite and range to poke.  I thought about going meteor build but I was worried that I wouldn't be able to land meteors consistently enough to get value.

I decided that since I had ETC and Malf on my team, I'd have sufficient set-up when it was time to engage, so I went with the melee build.  For the most part, my damage production was pitiful since I had to play conservatively against the poke, but it seemed to give me enough burst to finish kills when it came to fights.   But I had to deal with a toxic (feeding) Sylvanas complaining all game about the noob Rag who wasn't doing damage, so I wonder if meteor build might have worked out better.

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7 hours ago, FirstBlood said:

I think Empower Sulfurus is the right call 80% of the time, since you get some sustain off of the Sulfurus and it combos with Sulfurus Smash to dish out tons of damage.  I'm wondering exactly when it makes sense to go with meteor build. 

For example, I had a game recently where I first picked Rag on Blackheart's Bay.  The enemy countered with Tracer, Lunara, Lucio, and Muradin (can't recall who the fifth member was).  So basically, lots of mobility to kite and range to poke.  I thought about going meteor build but I was worried that I wouldn't be able to land meteors consistently enough to get value.

I decided that since I had ETC and Malf on my team, I'd have sufficient set-up when it was time to engage, so I went with the melee build.  For the most part, my damage production was pitiful since I had to play conservatively against the poke, but it seemed to give me enough burst to finish kills when it came to fights.   But I had to deal with a toxic (feeding) Sylvanas complaining all game about the noob Rag who wasn't doing damage, so I wonder if meteor build might have worked out better.

I'd say that in the case you described, using the meteor build would have probably been the best option. Empower SulfurasEmpower Sulfuras build's main weakness are heroes that can kite quite well. Living MeteorLiving Meteor build does not suffer as much from those heroes, but often requires heroes with CC on your team, which you did have. 
So yeah, I believe Living MeteorLiving Meteor build would have been better.

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Posted (edited)

I've been playing Rag fervently ever since I got him. One thing I noticed in the guide that I had different experience is that he isn't really mana hungry. He should only be using empower sulfuras to clear waves, especially if Rag went for sulfuras quest. If Rag went for blast wave build, he should use his blast wave once to clear waves after he gets his double blast wave talent. For pokes and depending on situation, Rag should either use empower sulfuras or meteor to poke. And then, he should only use blast wave to follow up, chase, or escape. All this culminates to a mana recharge every 5 minutes, so I don't think it is appropriate to label him as mana hungry.

Edited by Trensicourt
Add a bit more stuff

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15 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

I've been playing Rag fervently ever since I got him. One thing I noticed in the guide that I had different experience is that he isn't really mana hungry. He should only be using empower sulfuras to clear waves, especially if Rag went for sulfuras quest. If Rag went for blast wave build, he should use his blast wave once to clear waves after he gets his double blast wave talent. For pokes and depending on situation, Rag should either use empower sulfuras or meteor to poke. And then, he should only use blast wave to follow up, chase, or escape. All this culminates to a mana recharge every 5 minutes, so I don't think it is appropriate to label him as mana hungry.

Empower SulfurasEmpower Sulfuras should be used almost every time it is off cooldown in order to regain health and clear the wave, which is quite often, and in result makes Ragnaros mana-hungry. If you don't use Empower SulfurasEmpower Sulfuras that often, you are missing out on damage and wave clear, which obviously makes the former playstyle stronger, and offers strong synergy with Malfurion. On the other hand, if you don't really have a way of regaining mana, such as when sieging far away from your nearest healing fountain, the latter playstyle is required, sadly.

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, positiv2 said:

Empower SulfurasEmpower Sulfuras should be used almost every time it is off cooldown in order to regain health and clear the wave, which is quite often, and in result makes Ragnaros mana-hungry. If you don't use Empower SulfurasEmpower Sulfuras that often, you are missing out on damage and wave clear, which obviously makes the former playstyle stronger, and offers strong synergy with Malfurion. On the other hand, if you don't really have a way of regaining mana, such as when sieging far away from your nearest healing fountain, the latter playstyle is required, sadly.

In a lane, Rag does not need to spam meteor or blast wave to bully enemies out of lane. All Rag needs is his empower sulfuras to hit a minion and to transfer that damage to the hero and to heal the poke damage. This is especially potent if Rag is playing against medium-close range hero. Rag should occasionally use meteor if he can land perfectly. In the case that an enemy is weakened, Rag can combo his abilities to force his opponent to hearthstone. That is usually after poking with Empower Sulfuras/Meteor. In total, this is not a lot of mana unless Rag puts himself in a provocative position, in which he is forced to react with additional force.

In general, Rag should use two charges of empower sulfuras to clear a wave for 50 mana and regain all mana lost through a regen globe. He should not waste his health to pokes, so he should hit the edges of a minion wave. However, Rag should show force every so often to pressure the enemy off using Meteor. Usually Rag's presence as a super strong laner tends to make his enemies cede 60%-70% of lane control to Rag, so Rag doesn't have to expend mana to pressure enemies off his lane. This also allows Rag to get good hits on minion waves. If Rag went for blast wave, then he should be able to instant wipe a wave after blast echo for 50 mana. Same applies to empower sulfuras for one charge of 25 mana, but that's very late game. 

Alternatively, we probably have different play styles. As I've mentioned, I prefer to poke with Empower Sulfuras to transfer damage to my enemies as 90% of my ability usage. With regen globes, I don't ever run out of mana unless I'm forced to use other abilities. This leaves me with plenty of mana left for team fights and etc. Also, I noticed with my playstyle that my mana efficiency allows me to lane for the entire laning period up to announcement of objective without hearthstoning. In fact, I often find myself dealing plenty of damage to the towers and gates of the enemies by the end of the laning phase, showing the strength of Ragnaros pressure. Then I hearthstone with 40% mana to make sure I can sustain for the upcoming team fight or I fight with 40% if is safe to do so or I am forced to.

Edited by Trensicourt

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2 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

All Rag needs is his empower sulfuras to hit a minion and to transfer that damage to the hero and to heal the poke damage.

Which is why you spam it. Clearing the waves quickly in the early game allows you to start pushing and get a fort down early (and you can push the towers together with the wall as well), resulting in XP advantage and snowballing the game.

Also, you will be often spamming the ability if you chose Sulfuras HungersSulfuras Hungers, in order to get the damage bonus early.

And on smaller maps, you can sometimes rotate, which increases your mana usage even further.

2 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

In general, Rag should use two charges of empower sulfuras to clear a wave for 50 mana and regain all mana lost through a regen globe.

You are actually losing mana even when only using Empower SulfurasEmpower Sulfuras twice until level 13. You will also be using other abilities to poke and zone the opponents, which is additional mana gone. So, regen glomes can mitigate the mana loss, but are not enough to fully refill your mana, even when not spamming your abilities that much.

3 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

Alternatively, we probably have different play styles.

Yeah, looks like this is the case. I play Ragnaros as a wave-clearing powerhouse, so I tend to spam Sulfuras HungersSulfuras Hungers a lot, clear the waves and push as quickly as possible, and it works out most of the time. Then again, I am usually playing duo, and the coordination allows me to do things I would not be able to do when playing solo, so I can see why you play like that. However, at higher MMR/in higher leagues, the coordination is important (but I have to admit, QM players don't like tryharding), so you will again be able to play more aggressively.

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On 5/21/2017 at 10:21 PM, positiv2 said:

I play Ragnaros as a wave-clearing powerhouse, so I tend to spam Sulfuras HungersSulfuras Hungers a lot, clear the waves and push as quickly as possible, and it works out most of the time. Then again, I am usually playing duo, and the coordination allows me to do things I would not be able to do when playing solo, so I can see why you play like that. However, at higher MMR/in higher leagues, the coordination is important (but I have to admit, QM players don't like tryharding), so you will again be able to play more aggressively.

Whenever I play Ragnaros, the first thing I do is to try and complete the Sulfuras HungersSulfuras Hungers quest as fast as possible. I also like to play him very aggressively, while still staying cautious of positioning, as I am usually one of the primary targets of the enemy. Basically I have to make sure I only dive in when it's right, and pull out when the self-sustain won't be enough, then the frontline takes care of the enemies so they won't kite me, at least in a teamfight. 

He's a fun hero. He's nowhere near as big as he was when he launched (due to numerous nerfs) though he's still really powerful in the right hands and can be a pain to be up against.

Edited by Maxkitty
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