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Austere vs. Eternal Primal Diamond

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I've been looking over the Protection Warrior's guide on this website, and I noticed that it recommends the Austere Primal Diamond (+2% to armor value) rather than the Eternal Primal Diamond (Blocks decrease damage by 31% rather than 30%, Crit blocks by 61% rather than 60%).

Not that it particularly matters, since the legendary meta makes both of them obsolete, but I was wondering on what grounds the Austere Primal Diamond is considered better than the Eternal Primal Diamond. What calculations did you make to come to that conclusion?

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i´ll try to give an explanation: Since most tanks work with an active mitigation build instead of an avoidance build, the dodge rating on the Eternal Primal Diamond is very unfavorable and you´re better served with the stamina on the austere.

And for the boni on both gems:

The damage reduction through the Eternal would be favorable if you could block a high number of incoming attacks with reliability.

This is not possible with current gear, not even close

So the always-present (melee) damage reduction via armor is better suited for this case.

Correct me, if I got anything wrong^^

Edited by check0790

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Between the two, I'd agree with the Austere for now. Come 5.4, the Eternal would be more useful. However, I completely disagree with Check's assessment thereafter. Warriors DO block a high number of attacks with reliability. In fact, when Shield Block is up, we block 100%. thus, with proper SBlk usage, that extra block value would be put to good use. This still leaves us with the measely dodge given by the gem. That dodge isn't really giving us anything, thus the stam of Austere is better.

With that said, here's the important part: both of those gems are crap. As a warrior, you already have an immense amount of defenses that are fantastic for reducing physical damage. Go for Effulgent, instead. It gives you the stam bonus as the static stat, which is nice, but more importantly it gives 2% reduced spell damage. You can block all sorts of physical damage, the same cannot be said of magical damage. Ultimately, the choice of your meta's bonus is relatively small, but great tanks are made by a myriad of small improvements that combine to make a massive difference.

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I agree with Estarriol on the Effulgent meta, with reservations. The key here is that 2% extra armor is not 2% damage reduction from physical attacks, but Effulgent does provide a flat 2% damage reduction against magic. The rub is that magic damage is usually raid-wide, so there's less of a need to specifically single it out since it's balanced to be the same for everyone. In T14 Effulgent was a lot more useful than it is in T15.

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I'd disagree with that. Fan of Flames is a targetted, hard-hitting magic attack. Same with Explosive Slam. Lei Shen's final phase DoT is magic and on tanks only. Mar'li's casts and Sul's casts are both affected by the Effulgent. Megaera's breaths will be reduced. Soaking puddles for Ji-kun would benefit from the Effulgent. Primordius' and the heroic adds' DoTs are both reduced by the Effulgent. In t15, almost every fight has some hard-hitting mechanic dealt with by the tanks that is magic-based.

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I'd disagree with that. Fan of Flames is a targetted, hard-hitting magic attack. Same with Explosive Slam. Lei Shen's final phase DoT is magic and on tanks only. Mar'li's casts and Sul's casts are both affected by the Effulgent. Megaera's breaths will be reduced. Soaking puddles for Ji-kun would benefit from the Effulgent. Primordius' and the heroic adds' DoTs are both reduced by the Effulgent. In t15, almost every fight has some hard-hitting mechanic dealt with by the tanks that is magic-based.

There is a fair amount of magic damage taken by the tanks, but it's generally not the largest source of damage. Every boss in ToT melees you; there's no Lei Shi in T15 (other than maybe Mar'li on Council).

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The largest source of damage is not always the one to worry about. I'd be very surprised if anyone died from nothing more than Suen's melee attack, for example.

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Greetings fellow warrior tanks! I'm with Estarriol on this one, all the way. While the abilities he's talking about aren't top of our damage taken charts on total damage in most cases, they do represent the largest single hits or otherwise spikiest moments in most fights. Any little bit to help against this is incredibly valuable. It's the same reason we cap hit/exp to maximize rage gen and active mitigation. It's all about smoothing incoming damage as best we can. If we were concerned only with total damage mitigated with no regard for spikiness, then we'd all be rocking straight avoidance builds. But that's obviously not the case. Same logic applies here.

Offtopic, but I have to ask... Estarriol, I spied on your armory and saw you in mostly dps gear and hard gemmed for crit. Is this some kind ptr experiment? Or just a bizarre combo that you happened to log in? Thanks!

Edited by Detritivores

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Agree that while the magical damage on ToT encounters might be less than the melee damage overall, it is often the more important damage. Effulgent is probably the better choice for someone that doesn't have access to Indomitable.

Offtopic, but I have to ask... Estarriol, I spied on your armory and saw you in mostly dps gear and hard gemmed for crit. Is this some kind ptr experiment? Or just a bizarre combo that you happened to log in? Thanks!

I don't know for sure if Estarriol is doing this, but you can tank most ToT bosses in DPS gear + shield as long as healers are comfortable with it. Stat priority should be something like hit/expertise > crit > mastery. This way you will at least do a bit more than just half the DPS of some other tank classes. Posted Image

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Please don't do that. Stay with Hit to 7.5%>exp to 15%>mastery>parry=dodge. My crit gear is my DPS gear. When I'm soloing, doing dailies, or doing old content, I go into my DPS gear in prot spec to make things go a bit faster. Don't do it in ToT! It is needlessly risky for no real benefit. A bit of scumbag DPS isn't worth it. If you're having trouble with damage output, I can try to see if I can help with that. Are you tanking with a monk or druid? They have massively better DPS than prot warriors at the moment, so getting out-damaged by them is kind of inevitable. Are you stacking Bloodbath and Dragon roar? Are you waiting a few seconds after taking the boss before using those abilities? How about Heavy Repercussions?

Also, be very careful. I see no reason to be taking excess damage for epeen purposes and there are many ground effects that do not give vengeance.

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Of course this is just a way to spice up some otherwise boring farming. I wouldn't recommend doing this for anything you don't already outgear, let alone progress raids. You would be surprised though, my overall damage taken per second on e.g. Tortos and Durumu did not really increase compared to regular tanking gear.

 

There are some encounters where it might actually be better while progressing, but you have to know what you are doing. For example tanking priestess on heroic Council or heroic Megaera. These encounters can be tight on DPS and a lot of the damage is magical anyway. Shield Barrier does not depend on tank gear at all, though your stamina would of course take a hit.

 

Anyway, don't want to derail this thread any further.

Edited by Dots

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Most of the (dangerous) damage on Council comes from the spiky damage of Frozen Assault, which benefits from SBlk and therefore mastery.

The only way I'd condone scumbagging would be in a 10m you outgear by a solid 20 ilvls or so. Other than that, focus on improving your rotation over trying to gimick.

Edited by Estarriol

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Haha sorry, didn't mean to get us all riled up. I figured it was some nonserious situation like that, just curious. I was mostly kidding about lightning baths and trying out my dps set in the raid. Although it does just so happen that I am tanking 10 mans that I drastically outgear, with a druid offtank, so there is a little room for bad decisions >.>

I do make use of the things you mentioned (Bloodbath/Dragon Roar, Heavy Repercussions, so on), and my output is reasonable. (Obviously not crushing the druid or anything, but it goes about as well as I could hope for given our current situation. Fairly irrelevant too at this point. It's been a looong time since we saw an enrage.) I was more just curious what sort of scumbagging techniques people were up to. Way off topic, I apologize.

Hooray effulgent primal diamonds!

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Haha sorry, didn't mean to get us all riled up. I figured it was some nonserious situation like that, just curious. I was mostly kidding about lightning baths and trying out my dps set in the raid. Although it does just so happen that I am tanking 10 mans that I drastically outgear, with a druid offtank, so there is a little room for bad decisions >.>

I do make use of the things you mentioned (Bloodbath/Dragon Roar, Heavy Repercussions, so on), and my output is reasonable. (Obviously not crushing the druid or anything, but it goes about as well as I could hope for given our current situation. Fairly irrelevant too at this point. It's been a looong time since we saw an enrage.) I was more just curious what sort of scumbagging techniques people were up to. Way off topic, I apologize.

Hooray effulgent primal diamonds!

 

My main is a Druid tank. I've been raiding with the same team in T14 and T15 and I pretty much move in lock-step with them DPS wise, almost always in the top 3 on the meter and sometimes #1 by a substantial margin (Mel'jarak, Tortos, even Durumu oddly). Our DK is always trailing way behind in damage.. but he is more survivable than I am now because he has stronger active mitigation tools and uses them beautifully.

 

Recently I've been gearing up my Paladin. Even with Haste on every piece, ilvl of 500, 496 sword, I struggle to hit 25K on the dummy. If I don't have Vengeance the damage is embarrassing. If I do have a decent amount of Vengeance, then I can come close to what my Druid was doing at the same ilvl, but it's really a required condition to do any damage at all. The Druid is always on and always eating faces, because of its high crit chance. He can pull threat off the DK with no Vengeance at an equal gear level. It's ridiculous..

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My offtank until recently was a bear. I just didn't get to have any threat for four months. =( At least bears are fluffy and adorable.

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I feel your pain. I've developed the habit of pulling guns blazing, dps pre-pot, the whole nine yards. And that helps... most of the time. But God help me if he gets a good string of crits going before I've built enough vengeance... Fluffy and adorable indeed.

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Most of the (dangerous) damage on Council comes from the spiky damage of Frozen Assault, which benefits from SBlk and therefore mastery.

The only way I'd condone scumbagging would be in a 10m you outgear by a solid 20 ilvls or so. Other than that, focus on improving your rotation over trying to gimick.

 

For Frozen Assault, it's better to have a cooldown up and then use Shield Barriers.

 

Tank DPS usually won't make a big difference in 25m, but in 10m it can. For some 10m encounters, it will benefit the raid if the tank sacrifices a bit of survivability for more DPS.

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For Frozen Assault, it is best to dodge. Therefore, the unnamed cooldown is better if it is a dodge trinket. However, to say it is better to use SBar exclusively indicates you have a bit of a misunderstanding of the mechanic and of warrior active mitigation in general. SBar relies heavily on vengeance and thus is an extremely poor choice for a tank concentrating on Sul and taunting after Frozen Assault begins due to the very low vengeance that tank would have. There is a particular point of vengeance where SBar will begin to overtake SBlk in terms of damage mitigated per use. This point shifts based upon mastery, attack damage, and attack speed of the boss/mobs. Due to Malakk's extremely high attack speed, vengeance must be fairly considerable before SBar overtakes SBlk, especially on a mastery-stacking warrior. SBar's effectiveness at low vengeance suffers due to how quickly Malakk can strip it off, whereas SBlk mitigates every attack during its duration. Certainly the later stacks of Frozen Assault are well-handled with SBar, but the first few (depending on circumstances) are better off mitigated using SBlk. The circumstances where a tank is likely to have enough vengeance at the start of the Assault to use SBar exclusively include tanking Mar'li and Malakk simultaneously when Frozen Assault begins. Other than that, using a charge or two of SBlk smooths the incoming damage until you reach a point of solid vengeance and switch over to SBar. Using SBlk is completely viable and not an inferior choice. A dynamic decision based off of estimates of the size of SBar versus the amount likely to be blocked by a charge of SBlk is the best choice. Thus, a warrior on Council, facing Frozen Assault still benefits from mastery.

Tank damage matters in 25m. Tank damage matters, simply. The devs have made this abundantly clear at every opportunity. Having a solid rotation is all-important, though. It provides better survivability with the side benefit of damage output. Working on improving this will do more than saying you simply must stand in the goo in order to meet an enrage. Especially if said goo doesn't even provide vengeance. Having this attitude of "I must stand in things in order to do maximize damage" is akin to a DPS saying they simply need more gear and insisting that their rotation is perfect. While scumbagging for vengeance and more gear DO improve output, they'll do little without that solid rotation at the core. Especially in the case of scumbagging for vengeance, the rotation is essential to make sure that the scumbagging is "safe" and that is turns out to be beneficial. It is most useful in high-level progression raiding where the raid's ilvl collectively is towing the line of being sufficient to meet the enrage. In this case, it is an experienced warrior with a good rotation who is scumbagging to increase the raid's chances of success. Thus, I advise rotation over fire-bathing in a thread where people are asking for tanking advice.

I feel your pain. I've developed the habit of pulling guns blazing, dps pre-pot, the whole nine yards. And that helps... most of the time. But God help me if he gets a good string of crits going before I've built enough vengeance... Fluffy and adorable indeed.

Fluffy and adorable... and good at fite. I prepot, too. It helps, but the coming changes in 5.4 should be a breath of fresh air. Depending on the fight, you may look into DPS trinkets for the nonce.

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However, to say it is better to use SBar exclusively indicates you have a bit of a misunderstanding of the mechanic and of warrior active mitigation in general.

Time to get off that high horse.

I didn't say use SBar exclusively. Just like you didn't say to use SBlock exclusively before that, so I didn't pretend like you did. If you really want to dissect this specific example:

- The unnamed cooldown is a damage reducing one like e.g. Demoralizing Shout or Shield Wall. These cooldowns generally make SBar better since Vengeance and thus the value of SBar is not lowered by them. SBlock on the other hand now prevents less damage than it would without a cooldown that already decreases damage taken.

- 1 SBlock right after taunting is certainly still good. Vengeance will reach acceptable levels for SBar just a few seconds after taunting Malakk and should then outperform SBlock.

- Even a tank wearing DPS gear should still have 50+% critical block. Mastery is not really what I would call an effective stat to stack in this situation though. The gains are fairly minor, so the trade-off for DPS stats may well be worth it, depending on what a raid group is struggling with more. Especially 10m.

- Dodge trinkets like the Shado-Pan Assault one are obviously great in this situation and can be used on top of Demo Shout or Shield Wall. Since it is only a trinket slot though, this doesn't affect the overall gearing strategy much.

Having this attitude of "I must stand in things in order to do maximize damage" is akin to a DPS saying they simply need more gear and insisting that their rotation is perfect.

Nobody was talking about standing in things to increase Vengeance. Edited by Dots

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      We’ll be asking our shamanistic brothers from the restoration side to land a hand with totem utility, so be kind and compliment each others advantages in the group. keep in mind, there can only be one type of totem per shaman so having another shaman is welcomed. Also, fire totems can crit & scale with spell damage. Each totem below is in order of importance per category.
      Earth
      Strength of Earth Totem: Put by a 2nd shaman w/Enhancing Totems. Stoneskin Totem: Dropped by us or 2nd shaman w/Guardian Totems. Stoneclaw Totem: For AoE tanking a mob in a pack you don't have aggro. Earthbind Totem: A tool for kiting possible unbound trash in an instance. Tremor Totem: This totem will see some relevancy on a few boss battles. Fire
      Frost Resistance Totem: Ideal for fights with high doses of frost damage. Fire Nova Totem: Usually for bursting down low HP adds on encounters. Searing Totem: Damage totems are costly since they don't grant threat. Magma Totem: Superb for AoE damage on high HP adds in encounters. Flametongue Totem: A weak enchant incomparable to other enchants. Air
      Grace of Air Totem: Optimally, put by a shaman w/Enhancing Totems. Nature Resistance Totem: To counteract nature damage, mainly ZG/AQ. Tranquil Air Totem: All raid party groups should have this, except yours. Grounding Totem: Sadly, this totem will rarely if ever used when tanking. Windwall Totem: Never used. I don't recommend purchasing this totem. Windfury Totem: Our Rockbiter enchant is better. But it may help others. Water
      Mana Spring Totem: Usually, put by a shaman w/Restorative Totems. Healing Stream Totem: Place if the before totem is put by a 2nd shaman. Poison Cleansing Totem: Good against a high poison output, ex: AQ/ZG. Fire Resistance Totem: Ideal versus high amounts of fire damage, ex MC. Disease Cleansing Totem: Unfortunately, it will rarely see the light of day. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Talents
      Naturally, if you're only doing dungeons the road ahead is much easier and there's more freedom to move talent points. However, raid tanking follows strict guidelines to be effective. The last two talent setups assume you're in a serious guild who confidently clear raids.
      "The Basic"- 14/37/0

      The new player starter pack in 5mans. Pick if unsure of an upcoming boss fight or are still learning about dungeon shaman tanking. "The AoE" - 23/28/0

      For tanking many targets at a time in raids. It mainly uses Chain Lightning alongside Eye of the Storm for threat. Against +3 mobs, see: AoE Tanking. "The Advanced"- 21/30/0

      For Raid Tanking. The highest threat setup & for mobs resilient or immune to nature damage. Good gear and a solid knowledge of tanking is needed. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Rotation
      First, on the list is a simple dungeon tank rotation and we’ll be presuming the boss fight is simple.
      Pre-pull: Cast Lightning Shield and assure all possible buffs are present and max duration. Next, place the appropriate totems. Lastly, if it hasn't been done get the addon: KTM Threat, it displays the threat of members. A scenario can turn ugly quick, so watch KTM often. At any moment, you need to be sure of the fitting Earth Shock rank to use. Pulling: Cast Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning and Earth Shock. If all goes smoothly, Earth Shock again and turn the boss away from the group. If the boss suddenly targets someone or drops aggro, use rank7 Earth shock to aggro them. For future threat problems, see: Threat. Second is a complex rotation mainly for raid tanking, it has great results but requires good gear, buff, etc... Naturally, if you aren't able to perform every single action below don't get discouraged, its mostly to showcase the maximum potential possible.
      Pre-pull: Equip a spell damage gear set (ex: Gear Set +  Brilliant Wizard Oil), cast Rank7 Lightning Shield. Equip normal tanking gear, except the weapon & drink mana. Place Stoneclaw Totem & back up 25-30yrds. (It will later halt the boss for 0.5 seconds or the boss attack's it) Equip 3 pieces of Stormcaller's Garb Place Mana Spring Totem. Activate Oil of immolation. Cast Rank1 Lightning Bolt on Unconscious Dig Rat to proc the previous nature effect or try to get Flurry & Elemental Devastation instead, your choice. (a mage can polymorph the rat, until it triggers.) Pulling: Lightning Bolt, while it travels, equip a healing weapon (ex: Jin'do's Hexxer) As the bolt hits, cast R6 Lesser Healing Wave on a warlock who recently Life Tap. Equip a spell damage weapon (preferably staff). Cast R4 Chain Lightning. Equip all normal tanking gear. Immediately after cast R7 Earth Shock Activate Juju Flurry and Juju Escape, if the situation is ideal. Repeat the appropriate rank Earth Shock until boss is dead. Situational: If mana allows it, cast a suitable rank of Lightning Shield. If mana is foreseeably a problem, use Oil of immolation often. If mana is foreseeably an issue but threat isn't also cast R1 Frost Shock. Note: Versus nature immune bosses, to pull: use Magic Candle (equip spell damage weapon). After, follow the healing-threat tactic above & cast Lesser Healing Wave as much as possible until the boss is at melee range than Frost Shock. If more threat is needed: Flame Shock instead. MUST need Flame Buffet (don't bother otherwise) & similar debuffs. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Buffs
      Prioritize obtaining Defensive buffs before acquiring Threat related buffs. Agility for example has the added byproduct of helping with defensive and threat measures. Generally, off-tanks or known as "OT", take less damage, therefore, it's not fully needed to aim for Defensive buffs. Also, some buffs are unobtainable due to certain patch restrictions or unable to stack with others. There is a max of 32 buffs: Talents, Set bonuses & Equip effects don't count. But Gear enchants count with exceptions: (Crusader enchant and enchants from the profession enchanting don't count.) Resistance enchants however need to be reconfirmed as they make it seem now like those should count. Let's move on and explore relevant buffs to our tanking duties. The following buffs are classified into sub-groups to better highlight their usefulness and showcase different options.
      Threat Increasing Buffs
      Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer: Gnomish Shrink Ray: (can backfire increasing group's attack power) Fengus' Ferocity: From Dire Maul. Trueshot Aura: +50 Attack power. Battle Shout: (Improved by Battlegear of Wrath (3/3) tier set bonus) Juju Might: +40 Attack power. (from repeatable Winterspring quest) Sayge's Dark Fortune of Agility: +10% Agility. From Darkmoon Faire. Ground Scorpok Assay: +25 Agility. Elixir of the Mongoose: +25 Agility, +2% Melee Crit. Grace of Air Totem: +77 Agility (effect is increased through a shaman talent) Call of the Raptor: +12 Agility for 30min. (non-repeatable quest reward item) Grilled Squid: +10 Agility for 10min. (does not stack with other food buffs) Strength of Earth Totem: (effect is increased through a shaman talent) Atiesh, Greatstaff of the Guardian: (can't stack w/Moonkin Form) Slip'kik's Savvy: From Dire Maul. Moonkin Form: +3% Spell Crit. Headmaster's Charge: +20 Intellect. Arcane Intellect: +31 Intellect. Gnomish Battle Chicken: Upon attacking it might give party +5% Attack Speed for 4 min. Warchief's Blessing: Fist of Shahram (Blackblade of Shahram😞 +25% haste to party for 8sec. Juju Flurry: +3% Attack Speed for 20 sec. (Others can cast it on you) Swift Wind: (Only receivable upon finishing the Call of Air totem quest) Mana Spring Totem: +10 mana every 2 sec. (Only causes threat if you cast) Mageblood Potion: +12 mana per 5 sec. (regen effect doesn't cause threat) Innervate: Increases Mana regen by 400% for 20 sec. Oil of Immolation: 50 Fire dmg to target within 5yds every 3 sec for 15 sec. Lightning Shield: (Scales with spell damage) Static Barrier: From Electromagnetic Gigaflux Reactivator. Crystal Spire: (From a repeatable quest & anyone can cast it on you) Fire Shield: Deals 13 Fire dmg to melee attackers. Thorns: (Improved by Cenarion Raiment (3/3) tier set bonus ) Brilliant Wizard Oil: On a swappable weapon for the pulling of a mob. Blessed Wizard Oil: Ideal for Scholomance, Stratholme & Naxx. Flask of Supreme Power: (Can't stack w/Titans, so choose wisely.) Greater Arcane Elixir: +20 dmg dealt from spells & abilities. Traces of Silithyst: +5% damage to melee, range and spell damage dealt. Power Infusion: The target receives +20% spell damage & healing for 15 sec. Songflower Serenade: Boost melee, ranged, or spell to crit 5%, +15 all stats. Mark of the Chosen: 2% chance when hit of increasing all stats by 25. Spirit of Zandalar: +10% move speed, +15% all stats. Mark of the Wild: +384 armor, +12 all attributes,+27 all resistance. Elixir of Greater Firepower: Bolster fire damage by up to 40 for 30 min. Blessing of Blackfathom: +5 intellect & spirit. +15 frost damage. Elixir of Frost Power: Increases spell frost damage by up to 15 for 30 min. Dragonbreath Chili: (scales with spell damage and fire increasing buffs) Defensive-Buffs
       Sayge's Dark Fortune of Stamina: +10% Stamina (+10% Armor also exists)  Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops: (can't stack w/other food buffs)  Rumsey Rum Black Label: From Booty Bay.  Power Word: Fortitude: +54 Stamina.  Mol'dar's Moxie: +15% Stamina overall.  Spirit of Zanza: +50 Stamina, +50 spirit.  Blood Pact: +42 Stamina.  Flask of the Titans: +1200 Hp.  Elixir of Fortitude: +120 Hp.  Regrowth: From the (6/6) Dreamwalker Raiment tier set bonus.  The Lion Horn of Stormwind: (a friendly tank can activate it for you.)  Greater Stoneshield Potion: +2000 Armor for 2min.  Elixir of Superior Defense: +450 Armor.  Polished Armor: (AWAITING CONFIRMATION OF ITS EXISTENCE)  Crystal Ward: From repeatable quest in Un'Goro Crater. (allies can also cast on you)  Inspiration: Increases armor by 25% for 15 sec.  Power Word: Shield: Absorb 1105 dmg for 30 sec. While active...  Scarab Brooch: (Healers can trigger its effect on you before a fight)  Greater Heal Renew: From the (4/4) Vestments of Faith tier set bonus.  Bloodkelp Elixir of Dodging: +3% dodge for 30 min. (one time usable item)  Juju Escape: +5% Dodge for 10 sec.  Healing Stream Totem: Doesn't cause threat for you.  Greater Heal Renew: From (8/8) Vestments of Transcendence tier set.  Rejuvenation: Heal for 888 over 12 sec.  Regrowth: Heal for 1064 over 21 sec.  Renew: Heal for 970 damage over 15 sec.  Stoneskin Totem: Reduce melee damage taken by 30.  Dampen Magic: Useful for magical heavy fights.  Amplify Magic: Useful for physically heavy fights. Resistance Buffs
       Greater Fire Protection Potion: Absorbs fire damage.  Fire Resistance Totem: +60 fire resistance.  Frozen Rune: Absorbs 1500 to 2500 fire damage.  Juju Ember: +15 fire resistance for 10 min.  Greater Frost Protection Potion: Absorbs frost damage.  Frost Resistance Totem: +60 frost resistance.  Juju Chill: +15 frost resistance for 10 min.  Greater Nature Protection Potion: Absorbs nature damage.  Nature Resistance Totem: +60 nature resistance.  Greater Shadow Protection Potion: Absorbs shadow damage.  Crystal Basilisk Spine: +10 Shadow resistance & Frost for 1 min.  Gift of Arthas: +10 Shadow resistance for 30 min. Mind Control Buffs
      It is possible for an Alliance priest to use  Mind Control or someone with engineering to use the head slot item  Gnomish Mind Control Cap versus players on the Horde. For that duration the mind controlled Horde character is now considered an Alliance player. This allows the character to receive buffs from paladins. In the many guild raids I’ve taken part, we'd have 2-3 players on their paladins and priests stationed near the raid entrance for mind control buffing. It's also possible for a priest of any faction to Mind Control certain mobs, which can dish out buffs to all raid members.
      Greater Blessing of Sanctuary: (Will stack w/Stoneskin Totem) Greater Blessing of Wisdom: (Will stack w/Mana Spring Totem). Greater Blessing of Salvation: (can't stack w/Tranquil Air Totem). Greater Blessing of Might: (can't stack w/Strength of Earth Totem) Greater Blessing of Kings: +10% to all stats for 15 min. Improved Lay on Hands: Possible once it expires to go outside to get re-buffed then re-enter the instance & summoned back to allies. BONUS: You can get Fear Ward from dwarf priests and if survivability is secured Curse of Recklessness from horde warlocks. Mind Control Buffs from mobs
       Fury of Ragnaros: From Twilight Emissary in BRD.  Resist Arcane: From Scarlet Medic in Plaguelands.  Resist Fire: From Scarshield Spellbinder in BWL.  Bloodlust: From Gordok Mage-Lord in DM.  Bloodlust: From Hamhock in Stockades. Special Event Buffs:
      On an ending note for buffs, we can also get buffs from special events. An example, is The Midsummer Fire Festival an event celebrating the hottest season of the year. It lasts about two weeks (mid-late June to early July). The next ones are Love is in the Air, Lunar Festival, Wickerman Festival and Scourge Invasion. The following buffs are separated by their event.
      Thunder Bluff Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Ironforge Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Stormwind Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Undercity Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Orgrimmar Gift Collection: +30 Agility for 1 hour. Darnassus Gift Collection: +30 Agility for 1 hour. Fire Festival Fortitude: (stacks w/stamina buffs above) Midsummer Sausage: Bolsters damage from spells by up to 23. Fire-toasted Bun: +2% hit chance for 1 hr. Fire Festival Fury: +3% spell and melee crit for 1 hr. Elderberry Pie: +13 defense for 1 hr. Buttermilk Delight: +13 defense for 1 hr. Very Berry Cream: Bolsters damage from spells by up to 23. Dark Desire: +2% hit chance for 1 hr. Celebrate Good Times!: +10% to all stats for 30min. Elune's Blessing: All stats increased by 10% for 1hr. Wickerman Festival (October 18th - November 1st) Invocation of the Wickerman: +25% health & mana regen. +25% stamina. Scourge Invasion Soul Revival: +10% to all damage caused for 30 minutes. Debuffs
      There can be a total of 16 debuffs on a boss. Having as many debuffs on a raid boss is crucial. All debuffs on the list below benefit us in either Threat or Defensive aspects and assumed to be at their maximum rank and talent improvement. The following debuffs are placed into sub-groups to better highlight their utility and showcase different options.
      Curse of Recklessness: - 290 armor but bolsters melee attack power by 45. Expose Armor: (can't stack w/Sunder Armor but it reduce more armor). Sunder Armor: Reduces armor by 450. Can be applied up to 5 times. Annihilator: Reduces an enemy's armor by 200. Stacks up to 3 times. Faerie Fire: Reduces armor by 505 for 40 sec. Improved Shadow Bolt: Curse of Shadow: Reduces Shadow & Arcane resistances by 75... Shadow Weaving: Wail of the Banshee: (affected by spell hit, usually casted by healers.) Insect Swarm: Reduces target's chance to hit by 2%... Thunderfury, Blessed Blade: (can't stack w/Thunder Clap) Thunder Clap: (can't stack w/Thunderfury's slow effect) Improved Scorch: To increase Flame Shock's damage (niche scenario). Flame Buffet: To increase Flame Shock's damage (niche scenario). Curse of the Elements: -75 resistance to Fire & Frost and increase Fire... Winter's Chill: To increase Frost Shock's damage (niche scenario). Stormstrike: Next 2 sources of Nature damage dealt are increased by 20%. Gift of Arthas: If a target strikes you, they have a 30% chance... Nightfall: Spell damage taken by target increased by 15% for 5 sec. Demoralizing Shout: Reduce attack power of mobs by 140 for 30 sec. Curse of Weakness: (effect is increased through a warlock talent) Gear
      If unsure of guild or group performance, carry several focused gear sets: Stamina set, Dodge set & Armor set to cater to any possible encounter. Certain pieces of gear from PvP through Honor Ranking remains the best forever but demands a large amount of Honor grinding.
      Below is a Gear Spreadsheet to help with gear progression.
      - Gear Spreadsheet Link Below are BiS sets by Phase for defensive aspects, see above for threat gear.
      - PreRaid          AoE
      - Phase 1          AoE              Fire resist
      - Phase 2       (no PvP)              AoE
      - Phase 3       (no PvP)
      - Phase 4       (no PvP)           Nature Resist
      - Phase 5       (no PvP)           Nature Resist for Huhuran
      - Phase 6       (no PvP)           Nature Resist Enchants
      Similar to gear, enchants must be tailored against the specific boss you will be facing. Allies can also help us, by enchanting their own cloak with Formula: Enchant Cloak - Subtlety.
      Here is the Enchant Spreadsheet Link. Tank Comparison
      To showcase our max potential a full BiS geared and buffed shaman will be the closest in stats to approach a Druid tank. Let's look at the stats to see the differences. As a guideline, the Example Druid Tank below is BiS/buffed and able to clear most bosses with no issue. A shaman like other tanks tailors his gear versus the boss they're facing. Obviously, the Example Druid Tank can reach higher numbers and has a plethora of defensive spells, but the goal is to showcase the class with the closest similarity to a shaman in stats across the board that gets the job done in high-end raids.

      Druids have the luxury of having multiple categories covered and a broader safety net on top of having access to join Alliance for the added advantage of paladins spells, while shaman tanks are required to significantly maximize a specific category for a certain boss.done in high-end raids.
      Now, let's explores the threat generated by other classes to showcase where shaman tanks stand. Remember, threat depends on gear, boss, etc... But in general, the current standing of tanks that can do the most threat are:
      Feral Druid/Warrior. Paladin/Enh Shaman. Dem warlock. Priest tanks AoE Tanking
      Although I slightly talked about it in "Talents". Let me go into more detail here.
      Against 3 targets and/or dungeons, AoE tanking is about Chain Lightning proccing with Eye of the Storm as the main conduit to deal damage and preserve threat on 3 targets. Because it isn't possible to dodge, block, parry while casting, this method is suggested versus mobs dealing little to moderate damage. Against heavy hitting targets it's advisable to grab the weapon Hand of Edward the Odd and wait for its procs to cast. If you don't foresee a random mob being aggroed by someone, cast R1 Frost Shock to save mana and increase the proc chance of Elemental Devastation and Elemental Focus. This is all done while auto attacking a different target after every 4-5 melee hit. Items such as Skull Flame Shield, Force Reactive Disk, Oil of Immolation are beneficial. With a coordinated raid group, it's possible to heal designated players as they "stand in fire" in between boss melee swings. Another way for players to intentionally receive damage is for designated warlocks to use Life Tap alongside items, such as Demonic Rune or Goblin Sapper Charge. Equipping a weapon with bolstering healing attributes such as: Hammer of the Twisting Nether before healing a member wield yield more threat. Raid Composition
      Raid composition differs with each boss but is seen as a skill that evolves over time and reflects the playstyle of a guild or raid. The following composition is an example with minor exceptions differing from the norm. By no means is it perfect since compositions change along side: patches, gear, experience, etc... With the raid leader's permission offer your advice on an ideal comp catering to your needs without overstepping.

      In (Group 1): A fellow tank in your party can equip The Lion Horn of Stormwind, granted the trinket slot isn't needed for anything else. A bear can replace a prot warrior in the tank party, if the raid is comfortable enough with the idea and could probarbly use an emergency Innervate or Rebirth Also, only bring the bare minimum of tanks. This will open a spot for either: a lock with Blood Pact, or a hunter with Trueshot Aura. Rogues are favored over fury warrior, they Feint, Sprint, Evasion and Vanish to manage their threat/aggro. Feral cat druids can offer similar utilities as a bear and can Cower and Dash to manage their threat/aggro. Discipline priest with experience and ease of mind may occasionally throw a Power Infusion on a shaman tank during the pull phase. In (Group 6): The shaman is elemental since healing is not an issue and we are relying mostly on Tranquil Air Totem. In the situation, you are taking too much damage this spot can be replaced by a restoration shaman. In (Group 7): A mage could be replaced by a shadow weaving healing priest. In (Group 8): Mages gravitate to Fire Specialization after AQ but keeping a single mage as Frost with the talent Winter's Chill is advisable. A rogue can be replaced by a melee hunter on Nightfall duty. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks for Reading! If you have any questions regarding shaman tanking, feel free to drop by the Twitch stream to chat.
    • By Valhalen
      In the Deckard Cain Meta Tier List made by @Oxygen, @MagikMurlok asked if someone could compile a list of Heroes that have strong self-sustain that can be viable in matches that features no Supports. I decided to help.
      I ended making a list of all non-Healer Heroes that have any form of self-healing. Took me around 6 hours to compile every single nook and cranny (with all the revisions and edits), so here it is! I hope this help. Any feedback is welcome.
      I've also included a suggested build for each character to use in the event that there is no Healer in the team, aimed at maximizing survivability.
      Special thanks to @ExorionAether for the help with talents and Heroes I missed, forgot or did not include originally for other reasons.
      Heroes are organized in alphabetical order. Press the "reveal hidden content" button to reveal the lists.
       
      MELEE ASSASSINS
      RANGED ASSASSINS
      BRUISERS
      TANKS
      SUPPORTS
      TOP 10 BEST PUBSTOMPERS WITHOUT HEALER
      Deathwing: since he cannot be targeted by buffs and heals from his allies, Deathwing dominates whatever match he is in. All his level 1 talents are aimed at self sustain, and he also has some few other defensive talents; while you'll be sacrificing damage for survivability, Deathwing will still pack a punch. Fenix: as long his Shield doesn't drop completely, he has one of the most powerful lane presences in the game, essentially having two healthbars. And if losing his Shields he can simply retreat and let them replenish again. Just be careful with hard engages, stuns and damage-over-time (as each tick will put Shield Capacitor on cooldown). Malthael: ridiculous sustain that allows him to 1v2 or even 1v3 under the right circumstances. Make sure to hit as many opponents as possible with Basic Attacks to maximize his sustain. Dehaka: incredibly sticky and slippery, with a global presence that allows him to engage and disengage at ease. His trait combined with Adaptation makes him really hard to kill. Blaze: powerful lane presence and one of the best self-sustains in the entire game. Diablo: his recent rework made him absurdly resilient, with a self-sustain that can surpass Blaze's under the right circumstances. Sonya: still one of the strongest solo laners in the game, with reliable self-sustain, great damage overall, and strong engage potential. The Butcher: with a high risk, high reward gameplay style, he can become unkillable, but requires a really strong frontline to keep him well protected, as well at least one backline Hero that can harass enemies at long range. Medivh: with a very versatile kit, he can provide damage, mobility, vision, crowd-control and most importantly, damage immunity and healing. ANY team without a Healer greatly benefits from Medivh. Thrall: very strong on really long matches, as his most powerful quest talents require a lot of farming. At the endgame he deal eye-watering damage while healing for huge chunks of health. Illidan: with his passive healing, he is a no-brainer. He can easily harass the backline and disengage, forcing the enemy team to waste cooldowns and allow the allied team to retaliate. THE TOP 5 BEST SELF-SUSTAIN TEAM COMBINATIONS
      Deathwing, Medivh, Stitches, Kel'Thuzad, Kael'thas. Deathwing, Medivh, Garrosh, The Butcher, Kel'Thuzad. Deathwing, Medivh, ETC, Fenix, Kel'Thuzad. Deathwing, Medivh, Johanna, Cassia, Fenix. Deathwing, Medivh, Johanna, Tassadar, Raynor.
    • By Javalvik
      <Exo> is an old guild from Dragonblight which transferred to Stormrage in search of mythic raiders. We are a guild full of experienced raiders always looking to expand our roster. 
      We are not a world first guild nor do we aim to be. Our primary goal is to get loot and have a good time, however this still means on progression nights we do expect you to show up, put on your serious face, and kill some *filtered*.
      Our raids are on 3 nights a week; Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday from 9pm-12 Server Time (EST). The Monday raids are optional farm/alt nights (Normal/Heroic) with Tuesday/Wednesday being mandatory progression nights.
      Currently we are accepting applications for any role, off specs are always a welcome addition but not required. Performance and skill will be looked at above gear, experience, or class.
      We do not have a minimum item level required to join our raid team, however we will require you to catch up in our Monday farm-runs up until you are at a mythic level.
      If you have any questions or are interested in joining or trialing with us please add Pasha#1800, Java#1849 or Bushido#1988 on bnet to talk with an officer.
    • By Rheshi
      Currently in need of a non-druid TANK and RANGED DPS, ilvl 340+ for heroic/mythic progression. 
      Latest recruitment updates always posted here WoW Progress (however, exceptional players outside of our specific needs will always be considered). Casual players welcome as well!
      Progression Raid Schedule: Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. 7:30PM-10:30PM Eastern (server time). Casual members welcome!
      Contact: GM - Rheshi#1686 (discord & realid), Officers - ArcaneSyntax#11616, Theeos#1868, or Dennang#1899
    • By Casdon
      [US] Stormreaver — Skunkworks
      Tuesdays & Thursdays: 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. (pst) || 9-1 (cst) || 10-2 (est)
       
      Progression
      10/11M Antorus
      9/9M ToS
      10/10M Nighthold
      3/3M Trial of Valor
      7/7M Emerald Nightmare
       
      Website
      skunkworksguild.com
       
      About Us
      Skunkworks is a guild for players who can not or do not want to commit to the time-intensive raid schedules of traditional "hardcore" guilds.
      However, we still maintain a high caliber player environment and make an efficient use of our raiding time.
      We raid Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:00 - 11:00 PST, just 8 hours a week and never more.
       
      We are very protective of our guild environment and selective in recruitment. We are looking for solid players mechanically as well as intellectually.
      We all get paid to deal with idiots, why should we pay to spend our leisure time with them as well?
       
      Skunkworks has been around for multiple expansions and has historically always been at the top of the 2-night raiding guild scene.
       
      Past Raiding Achievements
       
      #US 199 Mythic KJ #US 186 Mythic Archimonde #131 US Heroic Garrosh #68 US Heroic Ra-den #77 US Heroic Lei Shen #86 US Heroic Sha of Fear #106 US Heroic Madness of Deathwing #99 US Heroic Ragnaros #147 US Sinestra #91 US Heroic The Twilight Destroyer (Halion) #71 US Heroic Fall of the Lich King #247 US Tribute to Insanity #160 US Alone in the Darkness Current Guild Needs
      Amazing Range DPS ---Exceptional Candidates always considered regardless of recruiting needs.
       
      How to Apply
      Apply with Google Forms
      https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-LW1-7rRK28Z3Nswg4xD3-jjQWrIsCh77rYOdxKwY0oPPQ/viewform.
      All applications are kept private.
      Please include at least the following.
          Prominent links to relevant armory pages ]A guild history with reasons for departure
          The reason(s) you have chosen to apply to this guild
          Warcraft Logs
          UI screenshots or fraps/Stream footage
       
      Contact Information
      Shadaka (GM)
      Real ID:Shadak#1881
       
      Aerivore (Recruitment Officers)
      Real ID:  Aerivore#1581
       
      Sovm
      Real ID: Sov#1192
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