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Ocebard

Help Frost DK dps

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Hey all! I need some help with my dps, Im 884 ilvl and only do 350-400k dps overall on fights in Nighthold, even on dummy. 

I just changed to BoS build so I have to practice, but it feels imossible to get more out of him. Im a bit off at stats and havent got legendary belt, ring or set bonus. Atm I have 25% Crit but only 15% haste :-/ Simcraft says 325 dps... about 360 with Glacial advance build.

Here is a log from Krosus

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2maWdcvFDwtyQAz6#fight=23&view=analytical&type=damage-done&source=6

Here is my Armory 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/defias-brotherhood/Ocebard/simple

Edited by Ocebard

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Hello

Since you have just swapped to BoS, it will probably take some more time to really get used to the playstyle and learn when and how to breath. A few things that came to my attention:

1. Don't use Old War. Prolonged Power is way stronger as it synergizes with Breath really well.

2. Your uptimes on Breath seems very low, which legendaries do you own? If none to extend Breath, try to pool some runes /RP and pay attention to not dropping BoS.

3. Both your trinkets are kinda meh, do you have any other Trinkets that you could swap out?

4. Try to get T19 2pc or 4pc and you will see a massive DPS increase, especially considering you got the Helmet (Our best possible Legendary).

5. Ideally increase your Haste, somewhere in the low 20's feels most comfortable for me personally.

 

I hope this helps a bit, I could not really analyse the Logs in-depht, but I hope this gives you some things to improve upon. If you got any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 

Àtrocity-Thrall

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Hey! Thanks for you reply:) 

1: Thanks, I´ll use prolonged instead then.

2: I don´t have any legendary that help with uptime on breath. The first one I can get around 30 sec then Im rune starved. Second I only get like 13s cause HRW is on CD and then the third like the first one.

3: Sadly I don't have any other trinkets =/ Allthou atm I need the haste I get from Draught of Souls.

 

Another thing I´ve been thinking about when I compare myself with other dk´s with same ilvl is that all of my abilities seem to hit a lot weaker... It´s like Im fighting with two noodles!

Take a look at this guy for example https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mzw13rPy9K8Hva7h#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=17

Everything he´s done hit harder. 

I really don't get what Im doing wrong :-(

Any more suggestions?

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As mentioned above, Breath isn't very long. Meh trinkets, etc etc.

But what i'm really noticing here is a couple other problems.

First being your fell crazed rage (Your draught of souls) you only used it twice, at the first one was delayed by a large margin obviously you don't wanna use it during breath, but you should use it almost instantly before you breath, that way coming out of breath and a couple seconds later you can use it again. You could of had 3 uses but you only had 2 because of this delay. You could of had at least 12 casts of RW, which is huge for you as frost especially because you have the helmet. On top of using the wrong potion you only used one potion. 2p will help you greatly in dps. You had rime procs expire, or nearly expire, and i'm assuming you were using obliterate during that time meaning you were losing lots of damage, especially because you got the helmet. Now looking into more of an in depth problem, when your first breath ended you had 4 runes up, meaning you could have extended it further. You also only had a 88.5% uptime on frozen fever, which is very manageable to keep 100% uptime on this boss.

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Thanks for your comments. Drtain and Captnhook. 

As for the 4 runes that were available, they must have come off cd the moment BoS ate the last RP, cause I spam obliterate like crazy during breath. 

Frozen fever? You mean frost fever from howling blast? About HB, i feel like it hits weak aswell, my average hit was 423. The other guy I posted a link to has 713 average. Huuuge differance! Why is that do you think?

And how do you use 2 potions? When youve taken Prolonged you cant take another one until the next fight, right?

These things you pointed out here, is this really gonna take me up 150k-200k? Thats the differense between me and the other guy. 

What do you guys do in between BoS? Spam obliterate, HB on rime and frost strike? And keep RW up. 

Thanks again for your replies, really appreciate it!:-)

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Frost fever yeah, apologizes. and if you take into account all of the things we said it will account to more than 150-200k increase. I don't know how many traits you have but that's another thing to think about. Outside of breath it's basically as you said. If you potion 1 second ideally before the boss is pulled, you can then potion again middle of the fight, know as pre-potting and is a majority of the reason we do countdowns before bosses are pulled. As for the 4 runes i'm not going to argue with you about it but according to the logs you had 2 runes, then 4 runes 3 seconds before breath ended, I can get you a picture of the log if needed.

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Thanks! So if you use one potion of prolonged power before fight so youre out of combat, you van use it in combat efter a while? :-)

I trust you about the runes mate, just thought it was wierd cause I usually spam obliterates when breath is up. Maybe slam came in the way. I know I ran away one time on a slam that wasnt gonna break the bridge. A guilde shouted wrong and stupid me ran:p

would be good if you could tell med where I can see the info about how many runes were up. 

Thanks alot for your help! Super greatful.

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It might have been ebcause of soaking, but i would assume you could still still keep it up. Just look at resources then into runes.

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I think two things you could do the help you in extending your uptime on breath is swap fog for Horn of Winter (which is iffy considering you have the legendary helm... sim it and see what happens) and change your race to blood elf for arcane torrent, which give you 20 RP on cast, which could be what you need to save a failing breath until runes are up for OB. Past that, obviously your 4 set will help tremendously as the main rotation during breath is OB and rime procs... which, if you don't have a 4 set, you gain no RP from spending the rime procs. A smidge more haste (around the 20-22% mark) will also help you with having runes come off CD sooner.

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Thanks BigBlackHawk:) Might try that out aswell. Yesterday I managed to end Star Auger fight at 430k dps wich is an improvement to last time when I pushed 360k. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nc9b1mpGvRkqaZDQ#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=14

All thanks to your good tips guys! Thanks alot:-) Think I still could do better but definitley an imrovement so Im happy about it. Logs says its 34% performance thou. What nunbers do you guys usually pull?

cleared the place last night and still no set bonus! Gul'da(m)n is a cheap bastard!

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Freezing fog is a dps increase over horn (at least once you have 2p, with helm i'd imagine it still is regardless of 2p). I'm normallyu doing something like 600 or so on augur, (heroic)  with only 1 dps legendary sadly x.x, that's with 4p though so probably over all just better gear in many ways. Idk if you're looking for more critique but if you are let me know, the main problem i see off the bat though is only 2 casts of your trinket again when you could have gotten 4. and again no second potion.

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I gladly accept all the critique that can improve my playstile:-) 

Oh, must have missed the second pot:-/ About draught of souls, Im a bit careful with the use sometimes cause you cant do anything else for those 3 sec. But thats no excuse, should be able to find moments to fit it in without losing out on other things. Usually i use it when nothing else is up. Rune and RP starved.

What legendaries do you have?

Yea, suppose 4piece will help out alot. At least I hope so:-) 

Edited by Ocebard

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Hello mate,

About Frost DK i'd like to add something:  Strengh > Crit (aroud 20-25%) > Haste=Mastery > Crit > Versa

I can assure you that going for mastery and hast will be a huge dps incrase for you, and even more because of legendary helm that directly benefit from Mastery.

About the breath uptime: you don't care about keeping it up for 1 min, all you need is a nice and strong 30 sec burst, then let it go and play with the classic rotation.  Most people misunderstand this build and will tell you that 40% uptime is required but that's bullshit. As you need to burst for 30 sec, you need to focus on getting better trinkets, the best being Horn of Valor, then a nice Strengh Trinket will be ok (Skorpyron or Aluriel for example, Krosus is weak but still has Strengh so why not).

When you start a fight, you'll have to build some runic power, then burst with BoS (Pillar +Horn of Valor + Breath).

Currently, you trinkets are really bad, and trust me trinkets are really important when you play such a build.

 

So, to sum up:

- get better trinkets, gul'dan trinket is bad for Frost DK because you cant use it on burst, so you'll use it without DPS CDs ) useless trinket. Strengh trinket are good because they'll benefit from pillar --> great burst

- replace your crit with mastery and haste until you reach something like 20-25% crit / 25% haste / 35% mastery. 

- be carefull with your Gathering Storm stacks, cast RW whenever available (up time should be at least 40%)

- breath is not about keeping it up for 2min, it's about getting the strongest burst for at least 30sec (for pillar+horn)

- I dont know if it's a bug but i see that you don't have a Fallen Crusader on your offhand weapon, huge problem

- don't forget that pillar is a 1min CD and BoS 2min. It means that you'll always use pillar and BOS together, and between two BOS you'll have to use your pillar once when available so you dont waste any time.

 

 

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@Everkopf If you wanna parse better longer breaths are a dps increase, than a shorter one. Breath requires nothing special where you lose dps if you keep it up past 30 seconds, while it's true that 30 seconds is a majority of the damage, the difference for 30 seconds to 1 minute is over 10million damage in my case, which is way more than FS would make up for, and keeping it up that long doesn't require me to sacrifice anything. I'm saying this in regards to you should aim for 1 minute breaths, not oh just 30 seconds. Most of the trinket stuff has already been talked about. Also with the helmet your uptime on RW should be aiming 70%+ as the longer you keep it up the better your HB is which is a majority of a DKs damage is when they have helmet. On top of over all just increasing the damage of RW. and 60-70% is more than achievable.

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Just have to ask what trinkets do you recommend I use? Whats wrong with Might of Krosus? I can see why I should switch out Draught of souls for something with strength but might of krosus has plenty of it. 

How many % uptime did I have on RW on Star Auger? Cant find where I see that.

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@Drtain That's true, if you can keep the breath up for 2 min it will be better for your DPS, and as you said the main part of BoS damages come from the first 30 sec (and that even more true if you're playing with burst trinkets). However what I was trying to say is that trying to keep it up no matter what is a risk because you'll tend to do mistakes and forget about the tact, so the first 30 sec are the most important thing and you have to focus on it

If you are a good player then yes you can keep it up for like 45sec/1min effortlessly once you are confortable with the build.

 

@Ocebard About trinkets, check out the latest simcraft to see which one are better than those you have. I can highly recommend you to farm the Horn of Valor in MM+. Easy to get and pretty strong. Then for your second trinket as I said a Strengh trinket is good, but Krosus is one of the weakest because the on use effect is a low dps increase. if you have time for Karazhan the nightbane trinket (Strengh/Mastery) is a nice pick.

 

Sorry for my english, i'm not a native speaker :P

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Hey! @Drtain Been practicing and switched out some gear so I get better numbers now:) Thanks alot for all of your helpful tips! 

Here's a log from Star Auger yesterday. I gladly take more critique. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AgPN2byQBDZFcf1d#type=damage-done&fight=7&start=3704065&end=4053255&source=13

I noticed a big difference on my dps when I finally got 2p bonus:) Hope to get 4 som but Im very unlucky with loot:(

Edited by Ocebard

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On 3/11/2017 at 5:51 AM, Ocebard said:

Hey! @Drtain Been practicing and switched out some gear so I get better numbers now:) Thanks alot for all of your helpful tips! 

Good to hear the success stories, thanks for reporting your improvements. :)

Grats on the T19x2 ( lovely with the helm isn't it ;D )

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@Ocebard Sorry for late response. For the most you're doing okay, though i would suggest you start working on breaths they're rather short and is mainly where your missing out on damage at this point. 

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Thanks @Browed the helm and 2p bonus works very well together:) Just got my second legendary, was hoping for belt or ring to improve my uptime on BoS. I got neck with no dps increase:-/ Well it save my ass sometimes I guess^^

This brings me to your reply @Drtain My first breath i can keep up for approximatley 30-40 sec at best. Then Im rune starved and run out of RP. Second breath is like 10-15 sec cause I have CD on HRW and the third can be 30-40sec again. Sometimes less if mechanics have me run away from mobs or so. 

I dont see how I can improve the uptime without 4p bonus and/or the right legendary. Am I wrong?

Thanks again for you replies and help:)

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@Ocebard There's always room for improvement you can get 1 minute breaths 1 hrw requires a little bit of luck, but not everything is luck some of it is skill 8). With that said you do not have 4p so that does slightly hurt you. If you consistently do 40 seconds with hrw i wouldn't worry about it and just see what happens after 4p. But if you are only sometimes getting 40 seconds you could probably work on it someway or another.

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