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Patch 7.2 - All Legendary Item Changes

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We've been covering changes to Legendary items in Patch 7.2 since the early builds of the patch. Over time, we learned a lot of interesting changes, including, but not limited to functionality, bad luck protection, Legendary targeting and crafted Legendary items.

This is a summary of all changes so far.

Bad Luck Protection

  • Will no longer be class-based, but spec-based
    • The system evaluates how many Legendary items you acquired per spec
      • If you have, let's say, 2 Legendary items for Enhancement and 0 for Restoration, the game will handle bad luck as if you didn't have any Legendary items yet when you switch to Restoration.
      • On the other hand, if you have a shared Legendary item (beneficial to several specs) and one for Enhancement, the game will handle it as though you had 1 when you switch to Restoration.

Crafted Legendary Items

  • Introduced to keep Professions relevant
  • Based on the latest Q/A, they should be solid "mid choices" (they're not supposed to be best Legendaries you can get)
  • The hunt for patterns begins with the quest Fashion History and a Philosophy of Style available to Blacksmithing, Leatherworking and Tailoring.
  • Nethershard EssenceNethershard Essence is a material needed to craft a single Legendary item and can be purchased for  8,000 Nethershards.
  • Crafted Legendary items are BoE and can be sold / traded.

The following Legendary items can be crafted

Let's look at Vigilance PerchVigilance Perch. It increases your movement speed and at 5 stacks when out of combat, you turn into a spirit owl for one minute. When the effect ends, you take fall damage.

Legendary Items Targeting

Slot targeting is now available via Relinquished items that cost 5,000 Nethershards each. The items can be purchased from Thaumaturge Vashreen. You get Nethershards by participating in various 7.2 content such as demon assaults, scenarios, Legionfall world quests and by killing mobs/rare elites on the Broken Shore. Relinquished items may contain a Legendary item.

Legendary Item Changes

  • Level requirement has been lowered to Level 101 (down from 110)

Several Legendary items have undergone changes as opposed to how they work now live. Below is a list of Legendaries with changed functionality (affixes)

Shared

  • Norgannon's ForesightNorgannon's Foresight -  Standing still for 8 6 sec grants you Foresight, allowing you to cast while moving for 5 4 sec. This duration begins when you start moving.

Death Knight

Mage

Monk

Paladin

  • Justice GazeJustice Gaze -  Hammer of JusticeHammer of Justice deals (600% of weapon damage) Holy damage, generates 1 Holy Power, and has 75% reduced cooldown when used against an enemy above 75% health.

Warlock

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This does not make sense.  If a legendary item can be shared between 2 different spec of the same class.  most likely it is not BiS.  Why punish people with worse legendary on even their alt specs.  I think allowing people to exchange 2 legendary to target 1 BiS makes the most sense at this point of the game.  Do I really have to re-roll my monk just to get a better legendary or farm the new targeting mechanism?  Sux.

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32 minutes ago, NAUTII said:

This does not make sense.  If a legendary item can be shared between 2 different spec of the same class.  most likely it is not BiS.  Why punish people with worse legendary on even their alt specs.  I think allowing people to exchange 2 legendary to target 1 BiS makes the most sense at this point of the game.  Do I really have to re-roll my monk just to get a better legendary or farm the new targeting mechanism?  Sux.

Compare to someone who is switching main specs (but not class):
Suppose you have 5 or 6 legendaries (maybe 1 or 2 are shared ones) for your old main spec.  With the current system, getting legendaries for your new spec is the same chance as getting them for your old spec, or rather, the chance of getting a 6th or 7th.  With the new system, this makes it so that the chance of getting a legendary for your new main spec is now the chance of getting your 2nd or 3rd, which is most likely much higher than your 6th or 7th.  Also, the chance of getting your "BiS" legendary is the same still, that's not changing.  For Monks specifically, there's only 3 legendaries that are shared between all 3 specs: Sephuz Secret, Prydaz, and Cinidaria.  Sure having Cinidaria as Mistweaver isn't exactly the best thing, but getting set back by 1 (or 3, at a max) Legendary out of 25 total Monk legendaries is MUCH better than being set back by 5-6 (from our above scenario, and very easily more).

 

Overall, I like this change, as it makes it much easier to switch between specs now.

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My biggest issue is I now have 3 Legendaries for my DH on Havoc and have only played havoc and managed to snag the ring (our BiS), symbiote, and the bracers..  The bracers are situational, symbiote is like a 3% overall gain so not a ton..  And with the convergence of fates trinket the new shoulders they added in 7.1.5 (Delusions of Grandeur) easily become our BiS with the trinket because it essentially allows our Meta line up with out 2 min CD's every cycle..  I am already getting penalized on drop rate going for a 4th Legendary and I may get screwed and get a "shared" one on my next drop and this change to the system doesn't help demon hunters at all because we only have 2 specs.. so if it takes me until like my 7th legendary to get my shoulders i may never see them..  My only hope is the relinquished items in 7.2 which by the time that drops I am sure it's gonna take a metric ton of shards to "target" the shoulder slot until I get them.  Meaning it still might be more efficient to reroll a new toon...

Edited by archangel890

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41 minutes ago, archangel890 said:

My biggest issue is I now have 3 Legendaries for my DH on Havoc and have only played havoc and managed to snag the ring (our BiS), symbiote, and the bracers..  The bracers are situational, symbiote is like a 3% overall gain so not a ton..  And with the convergence of fates trinket the new shoulders they added in 7.1.5 (Delusions of Grandeur) easily become our BiS with the trinket because it essentially allows our Meta line up with out 2 min CD's every cycle..  I am already getting penalized on drop rate going for a 4th Legendary and I may get screwed and get a "shared" one on my next drop and this change to the system doesn't help demon hunters at all because we only have 2 specs.. so if it takes me until like my 7th legendary to get my shoulders i may never see them..  My only hope is the relinquished items in 7.2 which by the time that drops I am sure it's gonna take a metric ton of shards to "target" the shoulder slot until I get them.  Meaning it still might be more efficient to reroll a new toon...

So, you're complaining that you don't have your BiS legendary.  The changes don't change your drop rate for your current/main spec, it only increases the drop rate for your off spec(s).

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2 hours ago, Orthios said:

Compare to someone who is switching main specs (but not class):
Suppose you have 5 or 6 legendaries (maybe 1 or 2 are shared ones) for your old main spec.  With the current system, getting legendaries for your new spec is the same chance as getting them for your old spec, or rather, the chance of getting a 6th or 7th.  With the new system, this makes it so that the chance of getting a legendary for your new main spec is now the chance of getting your 2nd or 3rd, which is most likely much higher than your 6th or 7th.  Also, the chance of getting your "BiS" legendary is the same still, that's not changing.  For Monks specifically, there's only 3 legendaries that are shared between all 3 specs: Sephuz Secret, Prydaz, and Cinidaria.  Sure having Cinidaria as Mistweaver isn't exactly the best thing, but getting set back by 1 (or 3, at a max) Legendary out of 25 total Monk legendaries is MUCH better than being set back by 5-6 (from our above scenario, and very easily more).

 

Overall, I like this change, as it makes it much easier to switch between specs now.

Sure you can say you like the change if you're one of the few people fortunate enough to have only ever gotten spec-specific legendaries, however given just how many classes/specs also have the same amount of shared legendaries, if not more (sometimes a bit less), a -huge- amount of people will never benefit from that whatsoever. Arguably the ones who may benefit from it the most.

People who got lucky and only got spec-specific legendaries so far (which likely includes at least one of their BiS, I have 4 legendaries and my spec has 5 spec-specific) reap the benefits by having an easier time hopefully getting spec legendaries for an off-spec, while those who got the shitty healing legs or Sephuz's secret on Feral druid don't even have the option to swap to another spec to try again. The design is flawed, gap in power grows bigger, if you got lucky you are rewarded by better luck in the future, and if you got unlucky, you don't. That's really backwards considering the entire idea of bad luck protection.

Shared legendaries need to be on their own bad luck protection/drop rate pool.

Edited by Ammako

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47 minutes ago, Ammako said:

Sure you can say you like the change if you're one of the few people fortunate enough to have only ever gotten spec-specific legendaries, however given just how many classes/specs also have the same amount of shared legendaries, if not more (sometimes a bit less), a -huge- amount of people will never benefit from that whatsoever. Arguably the ones who may benefit from it the most.

People who got lucky and only got spec-specific legendaries so far (which likely includes at least one of their BiS, I have 4 legendaries and my spec has 5 spec-specific) reap the benefits by having an easier time hopefully getting spec legendaries for an off-spec, while those who got the shitty healing legs or Sephuz's secret on Feral druid don't even have the option to swap to another spec to try again. The design is flawed, gap in power grows bigger, if you got lucky you are rewarded by better luck in the future, and if you got unlucky, you don't. That's really backwards considering the entire idea of bad luck protection.

Shared legendaries need to be on their own bad luck protection/drop rate pool.

If all you've gotten is shared legendaries, then all of your specs have an equal chance of getting a spec specific one, and getting one doesn't detract or lower your chances of getting one for a different spec.  Again, this has 0 effect whatsoever on your main spec, only for your off specs.  For people who play multiple specs often, then this is a beneficial change no matter what legendaries you've gotten.  If all you've gotten is spec specific legendaries, yes, this is a rather large buff to getting off spec legendaries compared to getting shared legendaries.  

Using your Feral example:

Before this change - You have 2 options: Keep trying for your 3rd legendary for Feral or switch to another spec and try for a 3rd legendary for it (which has the same drop rate/chance as your one for Feral does, and when you do, your chances for getting a Feral one drops as well).

After - Again, 2 options: Keep trying for your 3rd legendary for Feral or switch to another spec and try for your 2nd for it (since sephuz is shared, but the healing legs are not).  Getting a 2nd legendary is "faster"/"easier" than getting a 3rd.  So yes, you do have that option.

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5 hours ago, Orthios said:

If all you've gotten is shared legendaries, then all of your specs have an equal chance of getting a spec specific one, and getting one doesn't detract or lower your chances of getting one for a different spec.  Again, this has 0 effect whatsoever on your main spec, only for your off specs.  For people who play multiple specs often, then this is a beneficial change no matter what legendaries you've gotten.  If all you've gotten is spec specific legendaries, yes, this is a rather large buff to getting off spec legendaries compared to getting shared legendaries.  

Using your Feral example:

Before this change - You have 2 options: Keep trying for your 3rd legendary for Feral or switch to another spec and try for a 3rd legendary for it (which has the same drop rate/chance as your one for Feral does, and when you do, your chances for getting a Feral one drops as well).

After - Again, 2 options: Keep trying for your 3rd legendary for Feral or switch to another spec and try for your 2nd for it (since sephuz is shared, but the healing legs are not).  Getting a 2nd legendary is "faster"/"easier" than getting a 3rd.  So yes, you do have that option.8

You really didnt understand what Ammako meant (example with hunters, since Im familiar with them):

The hypothetical situation: You have been playing MM, but now that BM performs similarly you want to switch to BM because you like it more.

Case A: You have 3 shared ones (voodoo mask, roots, sephuz), so your chance for getting your first BM one will be low.

Case B: You have 3 MM legendaries (bracers, gloves, ring), so your chance for getting your first BM one will be high.

Now I would argue that Case B is already luckier than Case A, since those legendaries improve your DPS already, and now you get "rewarded" by getting BM legendaries easier.

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11 hours ago, archangel890 said:

My biggest issue is I now have 3 Legendaries for my DH on Havoc and have only played havoc and managed to snag the ring (our BiS), symbiote, and the bracers..  The bracers are situational, symbiote is like a 3% overall gain so not a ton..  And with the convergence of fates trinket the new shoulders they added in 7.1.5 (Delusions of Grandeur) easily become our BiS with the trinket because it essentially allows our Meta line up with out 2 min CD's every cycle..  I am already getting penalized on drop rate going for a 4th Legendary and I may get screwed and get a "shared" one on my next drop and this change to the system doesn't help demon hunters at all because we only have 2 specs.. so if it takes me until like my 7th legendary to get my shoulders i may never see them..  My only hope is the relinquished items in 7.2 which by the time that drops I am sure it's gonna take a metric ton of shards to "target" the shoulder slot until I get them.  Meaning it still might be more efficient to reroll a new toon...

Shoulders are not BiS. You're losing out on a shoulder slot, a trinket slot, AND a relic slot to make it line up, where good pieces in all of those slots with a different legendary will make more of a dps gain.  I believe cinidaria is best for single target other than ring.

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For people who play multiple specs this is not beneficial -at all- if you even just have -two- shared legendaries who have a good chance of not contributing much to your dps, because the change will literally do nothing for you, at all, nada.

So good luck with trying a new spec because you've used up your odds on your first two legendaries already.

Mr Lucky who got MM boots + War Belt + MKII Gyroscopic Stabilizer? Gets rewarded with an even easier time getting more legendaries if they switch to an off-spec. They might end up with Shadow Hunter's Voodoo Mask or Roots of Shaldrassil, as they might end up with very important BM/SV legendaries. At the original 1st/2nd legendary rate.

Mr Unlucky who got Mask+Roots as their first? And let's say for good measure they have Sephuz's Secret as their third. They're beyond saving no matter which spec they'd choose to try afterwards.

This is completely backwards and I can't believe I have to say it again. There's supposed to be bad luck protection, so let's reward the luckiest players with even more, while the unluckiest get to stay at the bottom even more? I've said it already and I'll say it again this does nothing to help close the gap between lucky players and unlucky players. It only makes it worse.

In layman's term let's say you get your first legendary in 1 week, your second in 2 weeks, and every other after every 3 weeks.

Mr Lucky who got 3 BiS spec-specific first has 3 legendaries after 6 weeks, and Mr Unlucky who has Mask+Roots+Sephuz also has 3 after 6 weeks. Who do you think has the (massive) advantage in this situation?

Then Mr Lucky switches to BM, and gets another legendary the week after, and another two weeks later. So they have 5 after 9 weeks.

Mr Unlucky only has 4 after those 9 weeks.

Let's say after switching to BM, Mr. Lucky gets two BM-specific legendaries. After 9 weeks, they switch to SV. They now have 7 legendaries after their 12th week, including legendaries that make both their MM and BM specs much more powerful. Which legendaries they get for SV won't affect any odds anymore so I'll stop there, but they'll have 9 legendaries after 15 weeks.

Mr Unlucky, after 12 weeks, only has 5. Given that there are 10 legendaries available per spec there is no guarantee they even have any of their BiS yet either. They could have Mask + Roots + Sephuz + Prydaz + Blasting cap launcher for all you know, and there's nothing they can do about it by changing to another spec and hoping that their off-spec goes better. After 15 weeks they'll have 6, at which point they -might- be starting to get good ones. Might.

Your argument, which is the same senseless thing the blues on the official forums seem to think is logical, is that "your shared legendaries work for all specs so by default you're already better off."

Tell me, how much dps does Shadow Hunter's Voodoo Mask contrinute to any spec? (ps: tier helmet is BiS)

How much dps do Roots of Shaldrassil contribute to any spec? (ps: tier legs are BiS)

If you have one of those legendaries, chances are you're using it as a stat stick and that's the main benefit you get from it. My MM-specific legendaries have that same stat-stick value for BM/MM. Yet only the shared legendary gets punished even thougb I'd benefit far more from wearing Zevrim's Hunger as BM than I would wearing Roots of Shaldrassil. See the point?

The whole system is backwards, makes no sense, and at the very least needs to have shared legendaries on a separate table.

Edited by Ammako

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All I'm hearing is complaints that you don't have BiS and about RNG being RNG.  People get lucky and people get unlucky.  That's the way the game works, and if you don't like it, then you have every opportunity to leave and stop playing.

1 hour ago, Ammako said:

Tell me, how much dps does Shadow Hunter's Voodoo Mask contrinute to any spec? (ps: tier helmet is BiS)

How much dps do Roots of Shaldrassil contribute to any spec? (ps: tier legs are BiS)

PS: They're better than Windwalker Bracers (Drinking Horn Cover) at the start of the expansion.  Why you ask?  Because you still get some sort of benefit from them, even if it doesn't increase your dps, it does help your survivability.  Before 7.1.5, DHC was quite literally the worst legendary in the game, since every WW Monk in their right mind used Serenity since it was just sooooo much better than Whirling Dragon Punch or Chi Orbit.  And guess what, DHC doesn't effect Serenity (not until 7.2 that is) AND has our 2 worst stats, Haste and Crit (as of pre-7.1.5).

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4 minutes ago, Orthios said:

All I'm hearing is complaints that you don't have BiS and about RNG being RNG.  People get lucky and people get unlucky.  That's the way the game works, and if you don't like it, then you have every opportunity to leave and stop playing.

PS: They're better than Windwalker Bracers (Drinking Horn Cover) at the start of the expansion.  Why you ask?  Because you still get some sort of benefit from them, even if it doesn't increase your dps, it does help your survivability.  Before 7.1.5, DHC was quite literally the worst legendary in the game, since every WW Monk in their right mind used Serenity since it was just sooooo much better than Whirling Dragon Punch or Chi Orbit.  And guess what, DHC doesn't effect Serenity (not until 7.2 that is) AND has our 2 worst stats, Haste and Crit (as of pre-7.1.5).

Why are we even talking about the start of the expansion? This is about a change planned to 7.2.

Also this change makes unlucky players even worse off, while good design should give you a way to mitigate bad RNG. You could argue that the relinquished items help with that, but this change makes it only worse.

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Ammako is spot on, this system primarily favors those who were already lucky with spec only legendaries. People who have any of the mediocre shared legendaries (eg.. Prydaz and Sephuz) now get their bad luck spread to off-specs with this change and the lucky folks who had the better spec only legendaries have better chances for OS legendaries. I can see Blizz's dilemma in this too though because some shared legendaries actually do perform well across a lot of specs like the Kil'jaden's trinket.

The best solution I've seen is the option for us to destroy 2 legendaries of our choice in exchange for a random new legendary (would have to be guaranteed not to be one of the two you destroy or a duplicate of any others you had). 

Another idea depending on how their bad luck protection formula works... They could tag the least desirable shared legos in a 'blacklist' and those would only count against your bad luck protection half as much as a normal one would. This would allow those with 2 crappy shared legos to only count as 1 against them and they'd still have some improved chances at getting a lego for OS.

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Utility shared legiondaries shouldn't count towards any spec-total. They should be account-wide heirlooms. No one is excited to get Prydaz or Sephuz, even when its decent for their spec.

Shared legiondaries also shouldn't count towards the spec total. The spec total ought to be completely separate, period. Anyone who has a character they play regularly since the launch of the expansion should not be crossing their fingers at this point to get a spec-specific legiondary, let alone their spec's best legiondary.

This system is bad. 7.2 doesn't even begin to fix it, apparently only makes it worse. I didn't think it was possible to make something this bad worse!

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1 hour ago, Iocayne said:

Whats the name of the nameplate addon in this video (that shows just the mob health percentage number)?

It's EKplates. More info on the UI here.

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5 hours ago, Gaz said:

Ammako is spot on, this system primarily favors those who were already lucky with spec only legendaries. People who have any of the mediocre shared legendaries (eg.. Prydaz and Sephuz) now get their bad luck spread to off-specs with this change and the lucky folks who had the better spec only legendaries have better chances for OS legendaries. I can see Blizz's dilemma in this too though because some shared legendaries actually do perform well across a lot of specs like the Kil'jaden's trinket.

The best solution I've seen is the option for us to destroy 2 legendaries of our choice in exchange for a random new legendary (would have to be guaranteed not to be one of the two you destroy or a duplicate of any others you had). 

Another idea depending on how their bad luck protection formula works... They could tag the least desirable shared legos in a 'blacklist' and those would only count against your bad luck protection half as much as a normal one would. This would allow those with 2 crappy shared legos to only count as 1 against them and they'd still have some improved chances at getting a lego for OS.

Agreed on this.  I've seen people with the BiS legendaries and people who have the two worst General legendaries.  Unless bliz comes up with a way of class specific and not put general in them, this will create issues as the people with bad luck with continue to have bad luck and the people with good luck will continue to have good luck.

 

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Will there be more changes to current legendarys, or is this all they are changing. I could think of a few more that may need more tuning.

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On 3/9/2017 at 6:10 AM, saintshenanigans said:

Shoulders are not BiS. You're losing out on a shoulder slot, a trinket slot, AND a relic slot to make it line up, where good pieces in all of those slots with a different legendary will make more of a dps gain.  I believe cinidaria is best for single target other than ring.

According to spec guide posted here if you have the trinket and the should they easily outperform a lot of other things due to having CD's line up so well.. and really losing a shoulder slot isn't that big since the Delusions have our best stats already, and tier shoulders are not our BiS anyways.  And as far as trinket slots out best two are the Kara trinket and a stupidly high titanforged Withered Jim trinket or a high BTI from Mythic Ursoc, since I don't run mythic raids for me the Convergence of Fates at higher ilevel than most of the other stuff is a lot easier to obtain, and currently the only relics with higher ilevel I have been getting have been the meta CD reduction ones...  It all depends on your luck on what ends up being better..  Since really most of the trinkets out of NH aren't that great and consistent.. with the loot system of titanforging the way it is.. our BiS trinkets are almost completely assuming high titanforge lol

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On 10. 3. 2017 at 3:00 AM, hematome said:

Will there be more changes to current legendarys, or is this all they are changing. I could think of a few more that may need more tuning.

There will be more changes in the upcoming build.

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These new craftable legendary items are very mediocre, the only one that is worth crafting in my opinion is the plate belt if you're a tank. I can't see any other spec of any other armor class wanting any of these. 

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The Relinquished Items are more RNG crap, unless the % chance to obtain a Legendary is particularly high.

Now you're required to start gathering and investing resources, which is time in the game deliberately working towards the goal, only to potentially have that effort go for naught. If it's statistically unlike 49% or lower to receive one of those target-able items, are we really that much further ahead? Instead of just being randomly rewarded out of the blue, you're going to be even more disappointed when you buy 5, 10, 15, 20+ of these items and repeatedly get Epics you don't want/need. 

This feels like another carrot-on-a-stick approach that seemingly gives people what they want without actually giving them what they want.

Look forward to dozens of posts on IV and MMO-C about people opening dozens of these stupid items and not receiving the right item.

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      As you may have heard, Patch 7.3.5 significantly overhauled the level-up experience in World of Warcraft so that zones from 1–100 will dynamically scale to your character’s level. Why? Over the years, we’ve made multiple changes to adjust the leveling curve—and as a result, the pace of characters’ progress has become significantly out of sync with the content. Players often out-level areas long before they’ve had a chance to complete key stories and quest lines, leading to a less-than-ideal experience.
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      To align the Recruit-A-Friend XP bonus with the upcoming leveling changes, we have reduced the XP boost gained from the Recruit-A-Friend program when playing with a linked friend down from 200% (300% XP vs. base XP) to 50%* (150% XP vs. base XP). We are making these changes to ensure the XP boost doesn’t upset game balance and undermine the experience, while still giving a significant XP bonus to you and a friend as a thank-you for being part of the Recruit-A-Friend program.
      RECRUIT-A-FRIEND CHANGES IN FULL
      The XP boost has been reduced from 200% bonus to 50% bonus*, effective today, January 22, 2018. If you’re already actively participating in the program, fear not! If you either sent or received an invite before the change went into effect today, once the invite is accepted you and your friend will still receive triple XP* (200% XP bonus) until the link between your accounts expires (90 days from the date the new recruit’s account was first created). Please note: RAF invites expire after seven days. Heirloom gear XP bonuses will no longer stack with the RAF boost (i.e., the maximum XP boost you will see from today onwards is 50%). If you were already on the program, Heirloom gear will still stack. All other rewards are unchanged and yours to enjoy: Summon your friend once every 30 minutes. 10% bonus reputation from kills that grant reputation.* Level granting: for every two levels your friend gains while the accounts are linked, they can grant one level to one of your characters. Recruiter rewards, including game time and epic mounts. *For a full list of the rewards and the in-game criteria for receiving them, visit our RAF In-Game Bonuses page.
    • By joat
      Who We Are
      Tequila Sundown is a growing raid team formed within the <Karma Horde> guild on US-Stormreaver. Lead by a husband/wife team with high-level raiding experience dating back to WotLK, we're a "positively determined" progression team that maintains a light-hearted atmosphere while tackling mythic difficulty content. We're mature adults with jobs and family seeking like-minded players who have a passion for the game but want to avoid the needless angst or drama that often gets associated with progression raiding. We log on to have fun - so come have some fun with us!

      A Team Within a Community
      Our raid team is one of four within the larger guild of <Karma Horde>, which was formed back during WotLK. As such, the guild and Discord are very active and social. There are always people around online and in-game. The community atmosphere is welcoming and friendly to players of all levels. The guild enforces a Code of Conduct that has zero tolerance for hate/offensive speech.

      We care more about the people we play with than their item levels or progression rankings. We want players who are going to log in on non-raid nights and be down for all the other things we're into: pushing mythic+, doing world quests, PVP shenanigans, achievement hunting, hyper-competitive fishing.. there's so much to do and so many ways to enjoy the game. This is our favorite hobby and we'd like to play with you if it is yours, too.

      Progression Goals
      We are 1/11 Mythic, Heroic AOTC Antorus progression.
      We strive for a fun environment that takes the challenges of mythic seriously and giving the content the respect it deserves. Our aim is, as all mythic teams, full clear of content but with always keeping the friendly spirit of camaraderie alive. Performance matters, but so does staying positive and finding the fun in the difficulty of a raid.
      We do not require mythic raid experience to join our team but we do expect mythic-level dedication and accountability from all of our raiders.

      Raid Days/Times
      Our mandatory raids are:
      Tuesdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Thursdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Optional:
      Sundays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Sundays are for raiding the previous raid difficulty.

      Recruitment Needs
      DPS: Will consider all specs, but would love to add a Shadow Priest, Rogue, and Mage.

      The Nitty Gritty
      If you're intrigued, please check out our wiki on the <Karma Horde> subreddit. This will give you a deeper dive into the raid team.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/FTH/wiki/tequilasundown

      Contact Us
      You can reach us on bnet: joat#1832 & lambkill#1856
      or Discord: joat#6049 & saever#4432
    • By Starym

       
      The first part of this huge interview, featuring how to get better at M+, class balance and more.
      In this first of a two part interview, the champs go into class balance, how to get better at M+, their thoughts on the affixes, the dungeons and much more.
      The Mythic+ crew of Jdotb (Resto Druid), Shakib (Veng DH), Darkee (WW Monk), Mittbitt (Balance Druid) and Marvink (Aff Warlock) shattered a large number of records recently and decided to have a chat with us on the most successful thing to come out of Legion, the Mythic Keystone Dungeon system. In the first part of this mythic interview, the dungeoneers talk about how to get better at running M+, class setup and balance, affixes, the dungeons themselves and more. With a huge amount of experience under their belts there's no one better to discuss the issues surrounding WoW's latest endgame activity, so let's dive right in.

      Let's start simple: why do you do it?
      Darkee: I do it for the challenge and prestige.
      Jdotb: For the challenge and fun of it. Having a stable team makes m+ a lot more enjoyable.
      Marvink: It’s a source of end-game replayability that lets you push your limits outside of raids. Pushing actually feels like raiding in a smaller more close-knit environment, and you get to constantly try to beat even yourself with the scaling content.
      Shakib: The moment of glory at the end of a world first run.
       
      For people that are just starting out running higher and higher M+ runs, as well as for those that want to get into the WF race, what would be your advice to them?
      Jdotb: A few things: first, try to find a group that you can run with all the time so you can develop solid communication and start building some in-house strats. Being on the same page as your group is incredibly important. Five pretty good players being vocal, knowing what mobs will be pulled, etc. will beat five all stars that haven’t played together. Second, make a lot of equipment sets and get comfortable switching among them. One for avoidance cap, one for trash aoe, one for pure single target, etc. It helps a lot to tailor your equipment to each specific encounter. Third, watch vods and steal strats.  You can find other groups doing a lot of really innovative stuff if you pay attention.  Don’t try to reinvent the wheel every dungeon.

      Shakib: The best advice I can give to anyone trying  to become better at M+ is to play with the same people. It doesn’t have to be the same exact 5 people every single time since some people might not be able to ALWAYS play. I personally play regularly with 10-15 people. Sure, I try to stick with the same 5 as much as possible during a push week and that would be the best scenario for everyone, but it can be hard sometimes so at least having people you know or have played with before helps a lot. Having to explain the strats to a new person will slow down your progression and might even make it not enjoyable.
       
      What would be the top 3 tips you would give to other high M+ teams?
      Jdotb: Sometimes you will have to replace people if you want to push for world firsts. It sucks, but it’s necessary. Prioritize playing with people that are available all the time. It’s hard to overcome playing infrequently even if it’s with really good people. Always be open to new strats for your runs.  If someone asks, “Why do we…” or “Why don’t we…”, take the time to really consider if there isn’t a better way.
      Shakib: At the highest level of m+ you have to treat 90% of the mechanics as if they are going to kill or nearly kill you. Mechanics that you used to ignore now become deadly. This applies for bosses and trash. Communication is key. I do think that having people that call out CC throughout the dungeon is very important. At a very high lvl overlapping a 6 second silence with a stun can result in a wipe, especially in huge packs where 1 cast goes off and the dungeon is over.
       
      You mostly use the same setup for your runs, could you talk about the choices there and why your class/spec is the best for this type of play? 
      Darkee: Windwalker brings high damage and “good enough” survivability. It really shines in mass aoe pulls due to our exponential scaling with Spinning Crane Kick. This allows the other 2 dps to bring more single target focused builds. We also have exceptional burst damage for high priority short lived adds (one example being the adds that shield the third boss in Seat).
      Jdotb: Four of us (Shakib, Mitt, Marvin and Jdotb) have been running together for several months. Darkee is a recent addition. His spec (Windwalker) does the most dps of any class in m+ right now by a country mile. Windwalker defensives are ok but not great, but Windwalker dps is so good that it doesn’t matter. The common theme among the rest of us is that our classes are very good at living.
      Marvink: Our group composition just sort of fell into place. For me, affliction will always have its place in high dungeons. Their damage is very competitive but a large portion of their appeal is the insane personal self-sustain. Having one less person the healer has to worry about a lot of the time helps quite a bit. As there are many dungeons with demons this expansion, Banish is very helpful in some dungeons on Bolstering and Bursting week allowing you to pull a little larger than you would without it. And don’t forget the important Arcway buff through enslave demon.
      Shakib:  Vengeance demon hunter: While dh’s don’t bring much group utility (ex: BoP, Leech aura, Battle res…) we bring an insane utility toolkit (trash control) and the strongest overall damage during a dungeon for a tank spec. We also have very good self sustain, especially during Metamorphosis, which almost makes us invincible. The great self-sustain lets our resto druid have even more globals to dps.
      Restoration Druid: The reason that druid is one of the two top pick for a healer spec is mainly because of their survivability via bear form and Barkskin. On top of that they are able to heal pretty much any situation while dealing a pretty decent chunk of damage if they pick the talent Feral Affinity. Ironbark is a very nice external on a short cooldown. Typhoon during a sanguine week is a lifesaver. Brez is definitly a big plus.
      Affliction Warlock: This spec is currently great at everything. They have a multitude of talents to pick from which our lock swaps between depending on the dungeon. Their damage is top tier while also having insane survivability (several defensives, the self-healing from drain is powerful, lets you somewhat ignore some mechanics while healing through them). Really good utility also for many situations. Stun, gateway, the decurse from the infernal pet but most importantly they can enable huge pulls by equipping Sacrolash's Dark Strike which slows every enemy affected by Corruption by 60%. This allows us to do some big pulls where I kite and the dps take care of the pack without having to deal with mechanics (mostly used in dungeons like Neltharion’s lair, Blackrook and seat). Healthstones <3
      Balance druid: Once again, same as resto druids you are basically never worried of a balance druid dying during intense damage taken periods because of their bear form. Brez and Typhoon are also nice to have. While not having a low cooldown interrupt can be an annoyance on heavy casting fights like Medivh in Upper Kharazan, Solar Beam is extremely strong for huge caster pulls - 8 seconds of silence is HUGE.
      Windwalker monk: This is a recent pick up, while windwalkers have always been a really good dps pick for m+ they were lacking survivability to justify bringing them. With the start of the new tier windwalker monks have been destroying dps meters which made us pick Darkee as our 5th. They always have cooldowns up. Leg sweep is the best aoe stun in the game. We also really like playing with 1 melee in our comp.
       
      If you had to pick the single strongest and weakest class and spec for pushing high M+, what would they be?
      Darkee: I think class balance is more like a tier list rather than clear-cut winners and losers. However, if I had to choose the best/worst, Mistweaver would be the worst. There are many contenders for best but my vote goes toward affliction lock. Strong damage, very strong survivability and they bring utility in the form of healthstones/gates/summons/soulstone.
      Shakib:  Affliction warlock is definitely the strongest overall spec. Good at everything, great survival, great utility. I can’t think of a downside of bringing a warlock. I would usually bash on Shadow priests but I think enhance shaman is the weakest key pushing spec in the game, not only are they melee which makes them more vulnerable to dying in big packs but they also have probably the weakest defensive toolkit in the game. From what I’ve heard they have really good single target and 3-4 target cleave but after that pretty much any other class is better.
       
      Do you feel Blizzard have done a good job with class balance throughout Legion? And do you have high hopes for BfA in this regard?
      Darkee: This answer would just be salt coming from a windwalker main (Rank 1 Krosus parse getting beat by rank 830 warrior parse). However, I think balance will be much easier in BFA with the removal of tier sets.
      Marvink: M+ has basically always been ruled by how much AoE burst you can get, you can always pull more if you have the damage. There’s always been some sort of mix of classes and trinkets that just rule the scene and not much has been done to limit the effectiveness of them outside of raids, one gets changes and another one takes its place.
      Shakib: The class balance has been decent throughout the xpac, the main balance that I would like to see is defensive changes. The defensive toolkit a class has is usually the main reason they are brought into a high m+ dungeon. Blizzard has surprised me several times this expansion when it comes to dungeons. Never did I think there would be this many changes done to balance dungeons out, it’s not a perfect balance but at least we know that they care about dungeons a lot more than before. They even hotfixed some of the bugs or “exploits” that were happening pretty quickly recently. Especially having a dungeon tournament hosted by blizzard themselves so my hopes are very high for BfA and future expansions.
       
          
      Let’s start from the most obvious: rank the dungeons in order of difficulty on the highest M+ numbers.
      Mittbitt : (Most difficult) Seat of the Triumvirate - Some of the trash is always brutal regardless of affixes, and the the last two bosses can make or break your key.
      Maw of Souls - The trash is not too controllable and does significant damage to all players, and the second boss can get fairly chaotic. Also the timer is not generous at all.
      Neltharion’s Lair- Ularogg Cragshaper, and Dargrul eat up a significant amount of time overall for the key by getting an undesired transition or add. Also the trash in the dungeon is very strong, specifically the scorpions at the end.
      Darkheart Thicket- Dresaron and Shade of Xavius can be quite scary, more so Xavius requires a great deal of durability.
      Halls of Valor -Hyrja can be a big block in whether or not you can complete the key, and some of the trash can be quite difficult if not dealt with correctly.
      Black Rook Hold - The bosses can be challenging, however the trash gets hard to deal with quickly.
      Upper Karazhan - Each boss has their own element making them difficult, however Shade and Mana Devourer can get messy and require extra coordination to kill.
      Lower Karazhan - Overall I don’t feel that this dungeon is exceptionally difficult, however the Mounted Strike can chunk anyone in melee range of Attumen the Huntsman, and unless you have a comp to cheese Garrotes, Moroes can get sketchy quickly.
      Eye of Azshara - The only two scary bosses in here are Lady Hatecoil, and Wrath of Azshara. Although not too difficult the winds pushing players around is obnoxious and can get very dangerous very quickly.
      Vault of the Wardens - The trash and the mini bosses are quite dangerous, other than that avoiding extra phases on Glazer are one of the essential parts to getting more time available in the key.
      The Arcway - Getting left side at the beginning of they key makes the timer much more relaxed and makes it the easiest key, unfortunately we did not get left side on our timed 27. What makes this key particularly difficult is Ivanyr, Nal’tira, and the large amount of time that Advisor Vandros takes up.
      (Least difficult) Court of Stars - Overall the trash is not too difficult, and mainly only the second boss is frightening as the damage caps early on the last boss, and the first boss is straightforward.
      Shakib: Lower-arcway-vault-court-upper-eye of azshara-blackrook hold-cathedral-darkheart-neltharion-halls of valor-maw-seat.
       
      If you could change a few dungeons which would they be and how would you change them?
      Darkee: Something needs to be done about that entire archer area in Blackrook. Getting through it with me only dying twice is considered a success. I would make it so you can’t out-range shoot but drastically lower the damage it deals.
      Marvink: I’d remove the very far back Warden spawn in Seat, and add a profession to the Starlight Rose Brew in Court of Stars. I’d also make Hyrja only able to cast the ability she’s currently linked to, not if she just has stacks.
      Mittbitt : I would reduce the amount of role play in some dungeons, such as the Court of Stars boat ride and talking, Neltharion’s Lair waterfalls and maybe even the shuffling of the rocks on Ularogg Cragshaper.
      Shakib: Court of stars: The rng on the buffs is interesting and cute at low lvl keys but becomes frustrating when you need a perfect buff combination (on top of having people change professions just to maybe have it up during your 1 run) to finish a key in time. I think in m+ it should either be a set combination of buffs or just disable all of them just like we saw in the MDI.
      Seat: similar to CoS, the warden locations should be set spawns.
      Arcway: Having a 50/50 on the door that’s open at the start is another point that can greatly impact the dungeon time (maybe less if warlocks wouldn’t be able to control the OP chaosbringer pet on the left side of the dungeon). Maybe a decent fix would be a toggle left/right as you start the keystone depending on the side you think your comp can clear faster on.
       
      Which is your favorite and least favorite dungeon to run?
      Darkee: My favorite is Upper with Court being a close second. Least favorite is easily Blackrook.
      Marvink: My favorite dungeon by far is Court of Stars. I despise Halls of Valor (I’m look at you Hyrja).
      Mittbitt : My favorite dungeon to run is currently Vault of the Wardens. I enjoy the layout of the dungeon and how it allows me to optimize my cooldowns. My least favorite dungeon to run is Upper Karazhan, I do not enjoy the bosses, nor the tuning for the dot on Mana Devourer.
      Shakib: Favorite dungeon is hands down Lower Kharazan. There’s nothing I love more than pulling big and lower is a goldmine of huge trash packs. Turns out dh’s are also quite strong at doing exactly what I love :). (Seat is really close behind.) My least favorite dungeon has to be Neltharion’s lair. Even though it is a pretty straight forward dungeon there’s something about the environment and the mob type that just gets to me.
       
      What are the easiest affixes and do they vary from dungeon to dungeon?
      Shakib: I would say that the Sanguine, Volcanic, Fortified set of affixes is the easiest for 12 out of the 13 available dungeons. The one that stands out as not a “harder” dungeon but just much slower. A LOT of time gets wasted during the scavenger hallway. I would say that the easiest set of affixes for Blackrook Hold is Teeming, Quaking, Fortified, the pulls are usually really big pulls so adding a couple mobs here and there doesn’t slow you down as much as people may think in there, at least not as much as Sanguine.
       
      Are there some affix combos you just will not get out of bed in the morning for?
      Darkee: Teeming Explosive is a bad joke. Explosive in general is just not fun. It doesn’t help that monks deal 50% less damage to them during our main cd, and our main cd is up at the start of every big pull. I just don’t play unless I have to during Explosive.
      Jdotb: Obviously some of the affix combinations are particularly disgusting, but we’ll run keys most every day regardless. We’re fiends. At the very least, affixes like Bolstering and Tyrannical make you appreciate the Volcanics and Fortifieds.
      Marvink: Bolstering, Explosive, Tyrannical. Not my cup of tea for that amount of trash management, and marathon boss fights are never fun.
      Mittbitt : I will always get out of bed for some mythic plus regardless of the affix combos, however the affix combo that least excites me is Bolstering, Grievous, Tyrannical.
       
      What do you think of the current affixes as they are now? Which should be changed or even removed completely and are there any you’d like to see added in BfA?
      Jdotb: Tyrannical is the big offender at the moment. You don’t have to dive very deep into the analytics to see that all the highest keys are on Fortified weeks. The 40% hp on Tyrannical is the problem - it just makes the bosses take waaaaay too long. The damage bump is fine where it’s at, but the hp buff needs to be cut to at most 25%, maybe even 20%. Bosses are already the hardest parts of high keys because of scaling; making them do more damage AND live almost half again as long is insurmountable.
      Bolstering is probably a bit too punishing. If you screw up, you can’t really undo it without wiping. If the Bolstering buff had a duration (maybe 10-15s) or a cap (maybe 10 stacks) it would be a lot more palatable.
      Explosive starts to feel a little overwhelming on high keys because the orb health scales with the key level so instead of just requiring a global cooldown, the orbs now need people to focus them for several casts.
      Volcanic is a joke now that probably needs to be reworked. It isn’t threatening and half the time it doesn’t even require you to move.
      Quaking for the most part is ok but can be devastating on boss fights where you absolutely need your Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus shield up to live through certain mechanics. There isn’t a way to play around that currently. If Quaking always did damage to your hp pool directly instead of eating shields, I think it would improve the affix a lot.
      Mittbitt : I feel that Tyrannical needs some tuning, possibly by dropping the hp that bosses receive and beefing up trash more. However, Tyrannical boss hp and abilities get out of control much sooner, and honestly are the least enjoyable mythic plus weeks where we typically farm 20-24 keys.
       
      What’s your favorite, least favorite and funniest “trick” you’ve used in the past to get that tier done in time?
      Jdotb: My favorite trick would have to be keeping the cats in the front of DHT from jumping. That made the instance so much less frustrating.
      Least favorite trick is delaying on the second platform of Viz’aduum. He always targets me with the disintegrate so I have to spend a minute or two running back and forth between two spots.
      Funniest trick was probably taunting Ularogg to keep him from going underground (has since been fixed) - if you were successful, he would instantly punch you really hard and probably kill you on higher keys, so the taunt “winner” would usually be the dead guy.
       
      That's it for the first part of this interview, we had to cut it up into two for, well, obvious reasons! Huge thanks to the Mythic + crew for the insightful answers and you check back in a few days when we finish this up with their thoughts on addons, raiding and its impact on M+,  the Mythic Dungeon Invitational, their suggestions for the future of M+ and much more!
    • By Stan

      Call of the Scarab micro-holiday is back with new temporary faction mounts. The event is active through January 23, 2018 and the mounts last for 7 days.
      2018 Updates
      Players who have completed Antorus, the Burning Throne raid need to talk to Rhonormu near the gong to enter the correct event phase of Silithus. The Scarab Lord Black Qiraji Resonating Crystal mount received a brand new model this year. You can find more information here. Two new mounts can be purchased for 1 Abyssal Crest during the event. Ruby Qiraji Resonating Crystal can be purchased from Warlord Gorchuk. Sapphire Qiraji Resonating Crystal can be purchased from Field Marshal Snowfall. The mounts are not permanent and last for 7 days. Blizzard (Source)
      *1/21- The Call of the Scarab Micro-Holiday is now live. Players who have completed Antorus , the Burning Throne and who are in a different phase can speak to Rhonormu near the gong to enter the correct event phase.
      On January 23, 2006, a bloody war was triggered by a simple sound: the banging of a gong. No rallying fanfare, no bloodthirsty yell; just an eerie silence. Those long, uneasy seconds of dread. The calm before the storm.
      Standing shoulder-to-shoulder before the Scarab Wall, no one could have predicted what would happen—an epic ten-hour battle that claimed the lives of thousands of Azeroth’s bravest—or fully comprehended the effect it would have.
      ACTION FIRST, FACTION SECOND
      That’s not to say the battle at the gates of Ahn’Qiraj came as a surprise. When the menace of C’Thun turned into an urgent threat, leaders across the world pored over plans and forged unlikely connections as pressure mounted. Both factions knew war was coming and personal glory was a hubris no-one could risk. Any notion that one army could defeat General Rajaxx and his colossal battalion was soon abandoned as fantasy.
      It was a unique time: scattered armies with varying allegiances were thrown together and faction pride was put aside. Let’s be clear: the battle at Ahn’Qiraj was won purely on the principle “united we stand, divided we fall.”
      WARMONGERING VS. GOLD HUNGERING
      This uneasy alliance was not without its critics. Some showed their disapproval by shunning the war effort altogether, but others expressed opposition through acts of aggression. Rogue elements on both sides, unwilling to stomach this perceived betrayal of their faction, did not sit idle. Just as neutral auction houses became a tool for factions to share resources, they also became virtual battlegrounds. Crucial resources were picked up for next-to-nothing and sold on for personal gain. As with all wars, those who profit aren’t always the brave.
      The sheer scale of that war effort is almost unimaginable when we live in a time of extended storage and fast mail. But back then, backpacks and cloth stacks were smaller. Getting precious resources gathered, sorted, and sent took many hours. And it took several weeks to source bandages, food, and equipment—resources that were in high demand and would soon dwindle.
      THE IMPORTANCE OF REMEMBRANCE
      There are parallels with current events that are impossible to ignore: once more, we Azerothians stand united against the Burning Legion as they wreak havoc across the Broken Isles. We attempt to put aside a complex, bitter history in order to defeat a common enemy. We eye each other suspiciously, even as we fight side by side.
      We would do well, in these dark times, to remember the courage and spirit of those who were there at the Gates of Ahn’Qiraj. We must have long memories if we’re to make quick work of the demon forces we now face.
      From January 21–23 we ask that you join us as we remember the fallen and celebrate the victory. All of Azeroth are invited to a special holiday, ‘Call of the Scarab,’ where we will gather to perform acts of remembrance and share our factions’ pride.