positiv2

Heroes of the Storm Malthael

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This thread is for comments about our Malthael build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Thanks for the quick posting of the guide! I recommend some proof reading of the guide though, Raper's Mark sounds a bit disturbing. 

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A build centered around Reaper's Mark also works very well, if you take Fear the Reaper for level one you get a pretty good escape (except from Naz's zombies, not sure if that is a bug or not), followed by Black Harvest that simply increases your base dmg (which works well enough on its own but also pairs really well with Memento Mori at Lvl 16), then take Mortality so if your target runs you can close the gap so you can get more basic attacks with Reaper's Mark on it. Either ult works well, but if you really want to stick to the Reaper's Mark theme go with Tormented Souls, if used nearby a lot of enemy heroes you can easily get a bunch of seconds for your Black Harvest quest (however, Last Rites can be a good way to finish off heroes and if you finish the quest you can use it every 15 seconds, which is also very good in itself). Lvl 13 you grab Ethereal Existence which gives Malthael some much needed armor because sometimes he does feel a little squishy, as stated you take Memento Mori at Lvl 16 to deal 5% of a hero's max health after second 4 it's applied to them, then either heroic talent is a good choice, Reaper of Souls which allows you to apply Reaper's Mark to more heroes the more you kill, or Angel of Death which allows Malthael to heal a large amount in team fights so he can last much longer. 

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I love the reference to Revelation On a Pale Horse makes, too bad it's not considered a good option :/ Indeed tho, Fear the Reaper helps a lot offensively and defensively (chase/escape) and comes in handy in more situations. OaPH can be useful on large maps however, like the author says.

Tried both builds and the Black Harvest-->Memento Mori direction seems better to me. Didn't notice huge difference in self-sustain with Soul Rip build unless when Tormented Souls is active. That's why I prefer Angel of Death level 20; burst heal is best heal and when vs burst and/or sustained damage, Soul Rip's (even enhanced) may not be enough.

Guide's pretty well done, thumbs up :)

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13 hours ago, Guest Steel Hydra said:

Thanks for the quick posting of the guide! I recommend some proof reading of the guide though, Raper's Mark sounds a bit disturbing. 

I cannot find "Raper's Mark" anywhere. Where did you find it?

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With the 20 talent Angel of Death, should it be a consideration for high health compositions, such as dual tanks, or groups that have relatively good hp heroes? 

It seems a way to be a healing cursed bullet out of greymane, and with the lower re-use count on ensuring kills with it as a finisher, helps you back into a fight without needing to worry about others, and keeps you soaking for your team, or just saves you from ambushers as well. 

Malthael folds to Burst damage relatively quickly, and this seems like a good option to also keep his weakness from being so glaring and denying kills from the enemy team. (And your team losing a player for 70-ish seconds)

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4 hours ago, Guest Angel Of Death as ? said:

With the 20 talent Angel of Death, should it be a consideration for high health compositions, such as dual tanks, or groups that have relatively good hp heroes? 

It seems a way to be a healing cursed bullet out of greymane, and with the lower re-use count on ensuring kills with it as a finisher, helps you back into a fight without needing to worry about others, and keeps you soaking for your team, or just saves you from ambushers as well. 

Malthael folds to Burst damage relatively quickly, and this seems like a good option to also keep his weakness from being so glaring and denying kills from the enemy team. (And your team losing a player for 70-ish seconds)

If the enemy is able to rush you down within 2 seconds, the talent is nearly useless. It can be used against sustain, but most of the times a healer should be able to keep you alive.

Against tanky team, you want Final Curtain in order to keep Reaper's Mark up at almost all times, which is especially useful against the aforementioned tanky compositions.

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This is the build I go with for a sticky and annoying Malthael focused on his passive dealing damage. Experienced great games with Kharazim as lane buddy aswell. Totally destroying big objectives, and dealing heavy team fight damage.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/malthael#26.0!1311233

 

Also would like to note that I found the Braxis Holdout not as bad as the guide would say it to be. Every time there I deal heavy damage to enemy Zerg wave, and have no problem with mercenaries. As mentioned above, the boss here is being destroyed by Malthael.

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19 hours ago, Guest Killerquo said:

This is the build I go with for a sticky and annoying Malthael focused on his passive dealing damage. Experienced great games with Kharazim as lane buddy aswell. Totally destroying big objectives, and dealing heavy team fight damage.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/malthael#26.0!1311233

 

Also would like to note that I found the Braxis Holdout not as bad as the guide would say it to be. Every time there I deal heavy damage to enemy Zerg wave, and have no problem with mercenaries. As mentioned above, the boss here is being destroyed by Malthael.

Even if he's not bad on Braxis, it's still his worse map by a pretty large margin. If he can't win the top lane, he'll pretty much be useless, as he offers too little to be on the bottom lane, and doesn't have much potential for ganks.

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On 13/06/2017 at 7:25 PM, Guest Steel Hydra said:

Thanks for the quick posting of the guide! I recommend some proof reading of the guide though, Raper's Mark sounds a bit disturbing. 

Well, he is pretty much the Slim Shady.

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I have a question: does Reaper's Mark stack with other damage-over-time effects? Say, for example, Lunara's poison.

Or a better question: does damage-over-time effects stack with each other? For example Lunara's poison + Chen's Fire Breath + Sonya's Poison Tipped Spear.

This is something I've never stopped to think about.

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5 hours ago, Valhalen said:

I have a question: does Reaper's Mark stack with other damage-over-time effects? Say, for example, Lunara's poison.

Or a better question: does damage-over-time effects stack with each other? For example Lunara's poison + Chen's Fire Breath + Sonya's Poison Tipped Spear.

This is something I've never stopped to think about.

Played Lunara + Nazeebo combo yesterday, and it seems that different DoT effects stack.
Same DoT effects can stack as well, as can be seen with Gul'dan's CorruptionCorruption (which can stack three times with itself), but some DoT effects will not stack with themselves , like the Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark or Cho's Consuming BlazeConsuming Blaze, though these renew the DoT effect.

As for Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark, it seems that it does stack with other DoT effects, based on seeing a game with Xul and Malthael on the same team. 

I do have a question of my own - how does DoT work with effects that change max health. Does the damage stay the same when you pick Colossus SmashColossus Smash/TauntTaunt/Glass CannonGlass Cannon during the DoT duration, or does it change together with the max health? Does Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark work in the same way?

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15 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

I do have a question of my own - how does DoT work with effects that change max health. Does the damage stay the same when you pick Colossus SmashColossus Smash/TauntTaunt/Glass CannonGlass Cannon during the DoT duration, or does it change together with the max health? Does Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark work in the same way?

Or when you level up during the DoT duration. That is indeed a curious question. I wonder if the DoT ticks are compensated retroactively or if they maintain the current value.

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Hi, I was wondering reading this guide why you do not mention the potentiation of Throwing ShadeThrowing Shade with Final CurtainFinal Curtain .

As you mention, Death ShroudDeath Shroud is the best way (and should be used) to put Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark on as many targets as possible. So why should you not spam it ? (cooldown reduction 8 -> 4sec, Mana reduction 50 -> 25) and enlarge it's area of effect (+ 33% range) ; even more with Final CurtainFinal Curtain which leaves a trail of Death ShroudDeath Shroud active for 4 seconds.

So every 4 seconds, you get to spam a spell which leaves a trail that lasts... 4 seconds, greatly improving the number of targets under constant Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark .

This is the template I played with so far with a situational lvl7 and 13 skills.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/malthael#26.0!3212233

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(Apologies in advance; All the words below are a link to talents because I don't know how to stop the words after you put a talent in from also linking)

I'm wondering if Throwing ShadeThrowing Shade could be an alternate option for Black HarvestBlack Harvest if you're going for a reaper's mark build. A cooldown reduction of 50% is pretty big, and would increase the uptime of his Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark in a different way. It can also allow him to go in a lot more often with Wraith StrikeWraith Strike (it helps if you take Death's ReachDeath's Reach), which helps against ranged opponents. Theoretically, taking Final CurtainFinal Curtain would allow you to keep up a permanent Death ShroudDeath Shroud zone, which can be useful if the team fight stays in roughly the same area (and it'll trigger Memento MoriMemento Mori), and also allowing you to poke more effectively.

Edited by positiv2
Fixed tooltips

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16 hours ago, TwixTrix said:

(Apologies in advance; All the words below are a link to talents because I don't know how to stop the words after you put a talent in from also linking)

After adding a tooltip, you have to press Remove Format button (+PJc5ExPvnR65jaQfeNGCmQQEHJyP3Bo59po1ayg). I am not sure if the button shows on mobile devices though. This issue is on our to-do list.

16 hours ago, TwixTrix said:

I'm wondering if Throwing ShadeThrowing Shade could be an alternate option for Black HarvestBlack Harvest if you're going for a reaper's mark build. A cooldown reduction of 50% is pretty big, and would increase the uptime of his Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark in a different way. It can also allow him to go in a lot more often with Wraith StrikeWraith Strike (it helps if you take Death's ReachDeath's Reach), which helps against ranged opponents. Theoretically, taking Final CurtainFinal Curtain would allow you to keep up a permanent Death ShroudDeath Shroud zone, which can be useful if the team fight stays in roughly the same area (and it'll trigger Memento MoriMemento Mori), and also allowing you to poke more effectively.

Throwing ShadeThrowing Shade is an option if you are good at landing skillshots. However, because Death ShroudDeath Shroud travels slowly, it is easy to dodge, making auto-attacks a more consistent way of applying Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark, which results in Black HarvestBlack Harvest being the superior choice for that build. This changes at level twenty, when you can pick Final CurtainFinal Curtain and get Death ShroudDeath Shroud hits more consistently. However, waiting until level 20 to gain full advantage of Throwing ShadeThrowing Shade is bad, so the synergy is not something that should be considered.

Throwing ShadeThrowing Shade is recommended against compositions with several ranged heroes. This allows you to have a higher uptime of Reaper's MarkReaper's Mark without having to expose yourself too much. Indeed, it does have synergy with Wraith StrikeWraith Strike, but so does Black HarvestBlack Harvest.

Memento MoriMemento Mori has better synergy with Black HarvestBlack Harvest than with Throwing ShadeThrowing Shade simply because of the consistency.

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If you take No One Can Stop DeathNo One Can Stop Death use it once, then you don't die until it comes off cooldown and use it again, will the increased death timers stack or it will be just amplified once? I've been wondering for a while and it's kinda difficult to test (and quite the precarious position haha). I think it should be the latter, though I wouldn't bet on it.

Edited by SteveFrost

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On a Pale Horse gets lots of value in large maps, enough for it to make a contender for best level 1 talent in those maps. Cursed Hollow and Warhead Junction are examples of such maps. Generally, if in doubt, Fear the Reaper is slightly more useful (and is the right choice in small maps anyway), but the ability to move faster while mounted than the average hero shouldn't be underestimated in large maps.

I used to pick Black Harvest at 4, but actually it seems that Die Alone is far better. Black Harvest needs a lot of effort to put into it, and gives no immediate benefits, or even relatively short term benefits like Varian's High King's Quest for example. Die Alone seems worth even if you're going for a "multitarget build" with Tormented Souls -  you'll never know when you have to 1v1 someone, and you simply can't duel alone against a lot of other heroes like Falstad without this talent.

I also think that Angel of Death is very worth it if you already selected Last Rites and don't feel like needing a faster respawn.

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Faster respawn allows you to save a game. Let's say you died in a teamfight near your base. Knowing that you have a respawn and that you're going to die anyways, you've did not use tormenting souls. Instead, you've saved it so you can rejoin a fight. Let's you also have Riding on a Pale Horse. That allows you to get to the fight faster and at full health. This is one of the many examples a respawn could be very powerful. In every other game, consider taking the respawn, especially if you are built to dive real hard.

 

Also, Angel of Death has almost no value, due to Last Rites fairly high minimal cooldown. Tychus' minigun sustain from That's the stuff easily outdoes Angel of Death at several tiers lower, and it's more reliable.

 

However, I do agree that buffing Malthael's percentage damage is worthless. There are many situations where you do want to shutdown a single target hard, especially for chasing.

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On 10/12/2017 at 6:58 PM, Trensicourt said:

Also, Angel of Death has almost no value, due to Last Rites fairly high minimal cooldown.

And that is exactly why Angel of Death is good. It's an instant burst health (unlike Tychus' That's the Stuff) and since Last Rites has fairly low cooldown, you get lots of chances for healing after a fight. If a teamfight overextends, you might even be able to hit Last Rites twice, and getting your health back, twice in the same fight. Although, I agree it's more of a "winmore" talent unlike the instant respawn talent.

Edited by Leadblast

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