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D.Va & Xul Hero Discussions

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Discussions continue about D.Va and her post-nerf win rate and Xul's nerfs from yesterday.

D.Va

  • At the time of nerfs, D.Va had the sixth highest win rate in Hero League for players that leveled her to 10 (Blizzard's standard metric).
  • After nerfs she's at 48%  and it's very likely that some of her underperforming talents will be buffed.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

Hey guys, I'm Alex from the Live/Balance Team and I wanted to chime in here.

At the time of the nerfs to D.Va, she had the 6th highest winrate in Hero League (~54%) for players that had leveled her to 10 or higher (our standard metric). She was behind only Malthael, Uther, Ragnaros, Probius, and Tassadar. A lot of those Heroes have also received nerfs since that point in time.

We also find that newer Heroes continue to trend up for a while, and our personal experience told us that players were still learning to be really effective with D.Va, so we believed that nerfs were correct.

She's now at 48%, and anecdotally I've never been upset to see a D.Va in my games (nor felt like I shouldn't play her when the team composition made sense).

It's very likely that we'll do more Talent tuning as we progress, which will likely result in buffs to some of the under-performing Talents. Overall, we won't always hit it perfectly the first time, as each Hero reacts differently to tuning, but we're always watching and will continue to make adjustments to get it right eventually. We care deeply for each Hero that is released, and want to see them have a nice place in the Nexus.

GG WP!

Xul

  • The intention of yesterday's changes was to nerf Xul, but at the same time, improve his W-oriented (Cursed StrikesCursed Strikes) build.
  • Devs want to make his three builds on par and they're closely monitoring his win rate.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

Just pointing facts here. At the time i post this, Xul has a win rate of 55.8% or ~56% in hero league. I am waiting for the deserved nerf. Honestly, that champion is a beast, both in qm and hero league.

We're watching. The intention of the changes yesterday were to nerf Xul, but make the Cursed StrikesCursed Strikes (W) build a little better in the process (since it was about 5% lower winrate).

It's still too soon to make any conclusions, but an interesting observation is people are taking Grim ScytheGrim Scythe oriented builds less often, which is leading to a rise in his winrate (since the build isn't performing as well on average).

Obviously that's not ideal, we want to make all 3 builds on par, but its one of the things that leads to a fluctuation in a Hero's overall winrate that we need to keep in mind.

I love your posts. Feed us more hero data!!!
Thanks again.

I am glad you are watching the situation closely. I just want to say something, though i doubt it is necessary. Please, don't try to balance the game only on 1 gamemode. Balance the game around every gamemode - QM, HL, Bot games.

In general, we we aim to balance Hero League primarily, as that style of play usually trickles down into the other modes. If things are balanced there, we're usually in a pretty good spot in other game modes.

We do watch Quick Match especially to make sure nothing gets out of hand though. Certain Heroes thrive in the more chaotic Quick Match (and with less structured team compositions), so we expect some deviation from Hero League's results because of it. But if it makes for a degenerative experience, we'll make some changes trying to address just Quick Match problems when we need to.

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I don't know where of a sudden did all those discussions about concrete heroes come, but I like it.

Btw, any chance of some of the oldest and/or less successful heroes getting a rework soon? Anybody knows/can answer?

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21 minutes ago, MvonTzeskagrad said:

I don't know where of a sudden did all those discussions about concrete heroes come, but I like it.

Btw, any chance of some of the oldest and/or less successful heroes getting a rework soon? Anybody knows/can answer?

Dev communication for Heroes of the Storm is really good these days. I can't think of many Heroes off the top of my head. They'd like to rework most of the outdated heroes "in the future", no ETA. I remember they mentioned Medivh & Samuro lately. Keep an eye out here for specific threads that received a blue response.

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So, my biggest concern on all this is two things. 

A) They act like 48% win rate is bad on D.Va, like if she isn't about 50% she isn't good. In a balanced world half of the heroes in the game would have a lower than 50% win rate. 48% is perfectly acceptable and still likely to rise a bit with no changes.

B) As predicted, D.Va is a champ that is going to be impossibly hard to balance. She has similar issues to Kled in League of Legends with the added bonus of being able to summon Skarl (or in this case her mech) back immediately after jumping out in some cases. You can't give a hero two health bars, an invulnerability and naturally high tankiness and then wonder why they take every single damage focused trait available to them.

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On 28/07/2017 at 7:50 AM, Thorosofbeer said:

A) They act like 48% win rate is bad on D.Va, like if she isn't about 50% she isn't good. In a balanced world half of the heroes in the game would have a lower than 50% win rate. 48% is perfectly acceptable and still likely to rise a bit with no changes.

But this is only true in a perfect meta that includes every hero - depending on the sway of the meta, certain heroes will have a very low winrate, not because they are bad but because the meta has shifted. For example, if every game sees 3 tanks picked, Nova will have a much lower winrate. This isn't due to her being a bad hero, per say, but simply because it's not the right environment for her. 

On that note, the meta has shifted with D.Va's nerf. The only thing that actually changed was her, which means that she is playing in the exact same meta, but has dropped a huge amount of win %. I hope I'm kind of making sense. 

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There are a lot of factors that can change the overall win rates of any particular hero, but I don't think some small and targeted buffs typical of the HotS team are going to hurt, especially if they encourage some talent diversity. 

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9 hours ago, Plergoth said:

There are a lot of factors that can change the overall win rates of any particular hero, but I don't think some small and targeted buffs typical of the HotS team are going to hurt, especially if they encourage some talent diversity. 

I think that, after talent changes and revamps, you do also sometimes see people picking the hero up again and possibly not playing her as well as you can - I know that I have heroes above level 15 and I sometimes jump back on to them and feel incredibly rusty on them.

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