blackempire

Glacial Spike or Thermal Void

8 posts in this topic

Wazzup this is my first forum post and stuff and im wondering what you think it the best talent to go for!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It feels that in theory Thermal Void has a higher DPS ceiling, but after a ton of sim'd results and my own testing in game I consistently parse better using Glacial. It also feels like it smooths out the rotation more as you can go a long time (5-10 casts) with just Frostbolt spam trying for procs and it tanks your DPS. Plus, you get the random chance of being able to shatter GS w/ BF and that's nice! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glacial should be better when you proc Brain Freeze often enough for the frostbolt and glacial shatters.
Buffed by Clarity of Thought relic and Nighthold set bonus.
Recommended when using Splitting Ice, since glacial will hit a second target.

Thermal Void should be better when you proc Fingers of Frost a lot.
Recommended with Frozen Touch talent and/or you are using anything that allows your Frozen Orb to come up faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Generaly, thermal void parses better and sims better in ToS and not because it has a higher dps ceiling. Also, TV is just more versatile in ToS and its very rare to see mages playing otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I prefer thermal void by miles but if you check parses there is a lot of preference for glacial spike. One of the big questions is do you have Lady Vashj's Grasp Icon Lady Vashj's Grasp. If so then thermal void becomes much much stronger. So there are cases to be made for both talents, but, thermal void is just easier to use and has a smoother rotation feel. GS is just so clunky to me and I hate the hard rotation stop time to cast it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the moment they are close enough that unless you are in a top raiding guild, you can play both without being a drain on the raid, however Thermal Void is just stronger as long as you are itemized for it.  In some scenarios you can find yourself doing more damage with Glacial, however that takes a lot of vers/mastery in place of haste. 

But if you have gear sets itemized for both, Thermal Void will beat out Glacial. Even with ordinary procs, Thermal Void beats out Glacial, and during the god procs it starts to dominate Glacial. sadly, in the latest change to our class, Blizzard detected some fun with us abusing % damage increases to do stupid huge Glacials, so the niche that the talent once had is now gone(RIP 100mil Glacials on last boss of BRH).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting a better idea on what maybe better is to sim your character.   For me personally GS used to sim higher until after a few gear upgrades then TV simmed higher by about 200k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Always sim yourself, especially as a mage. Never use AMR use the addon pawn instead, honestly altered-time would probably be better to learn more about mage then icy-veins would. Icy-veins is good to learn to basics but honestly most of the frost forum section of altered-time offers everything including the basics. I provided two links at the bottom that you'll want to go to. Highly recommend watching the simc+pawn video guide.

Especially important to know that reaching the "shatter cap" is pretty much a fruitless endeavor. The information on the guide for frost mage is outdated in that respects on this site. You should aim for a 1:1 ratio between haste and crit. Once you reach 30 percent haste, it's value starts to slightly diminish. More haste= versatility getting "buffed".

Honestly depending on your gear the information i gave you kind of loses relevance. Sim yourself, enable scaling, check the boxes for int, crit, vers, mastery and haste. Go into global settings bring your iterations to 25k, never use less with an rng spec like frost. Or you will see huge variance.

Remember That GS was nerfed as well through mastery. In most cases if not 100 percent of the cases TV is just flat out better. Usually when someone says that GS pulls ahead of TV is if A they don't have the gear so it will pull ahead until they get better gear or B they simply do not have their character stats properly balanced, this is including improper gems and enchants.

 

Links:

http://altered-time.com

Quin69's pawn+ simc guide. He's playing ret but all the simcraft + pawn explanations are spot on regardless of class/spec. Probably the best youtube video on pawn and simc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   1 member

  • Similar Content

    • By bowsersfury
      Hello, 
      I am concerned that I am severely under performing as a fury warrior. I can manage to parse typically in the 80s for almost every fight in heroic ToS with a few exceptions: Mistress, Host, Avatar. I'm currently 933 equipped and I'm not at all concerned about my stats... I know I should and could be parsing in the 90s. But I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. 
       
      My opener looks something like this: Charge, Pop Moonglaives trinket, Pop all CDS, Raging Blow, Oden's Fury, Rampage, then start normal priority rotation: Enraged RB>100 rage Rampage>RB>BT>FS. 
       
      I have recently discovered that I have been doing my execute phase entirely wrong. I just went and tried first two bosses of heroic ToS again. Parses went up slightly... Goroth: 83->89, Inquis:84->90 but still not where I need to be. 
      Another think I'd like to mention is that I try to prioritize Enraged RB @100 rage before hitting rampage. According to Kelade (one of top fury warriors in US), this is 100k dps difference. Although at times I find myself in an awkward situation where I'm at 100 rage with RB on CD and I literally have to wait a whole global to hit it... I'd like to know how to make that stop lol. 
       
      Last issue I'd like to bring up is this: Most of the time not all my CDs will line up perfectly together... BC, glaives, OF will be up but Avatar will be down. I'm slightly confused about when to use All/some of my cds... especially on fights like heroic KJ. Fights like Harj and Miss I'm confused about if I should hold all my cds for adds or blow them in the beginning along with prepot... I feel like prepot is a total waste without cds...
       
      Below you will find the link to my armory and logs. Please Help me. I need to be parsing much higher than I am. My guild is doing mythic and I don't want to be the one holding us back.  
       
      https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/stormrage/bòwser
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/26903184
    • By capimeista
      hello everyone,
      i feel like im doing way to low dmg in my hc raids could some of you take a look at my logs and see if im doing something wrong.
      i already know my legendary ice time isnt the best but i dont have another.
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dXFRr843LvBVNTpk/#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0&source=5
      my thanks.
    • By Mezasu
      I've been playing a hunter for as long as I've been playing this game.  And for the first time in raiding, I feel like I am not doing my best and I cannot figure out why. I look at second by second rotations of top parsing hunters. In the past I was the one helping others out and writing small guides on forums...now I'm the one asking for help. 
      Here is a link to Goroth Mythic (my hunter's name is Mezäsu):
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KjRvcMqbYGrp16Bt#fight=3
      I am very open to criticism and any help anyone has to offer.
      I tried going into the Discord to ask for help there but was not able to get a word in (as the helpers were busy with other people). Hoping I may have better luck here.
    • By Seagaard
      Hello! Just another desperate warrior, seeking to improve in any possible way!
      Im Seagaard, from Ravencrest: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/ravencrest/seagaard
      Im struggling doing as much DPS as i would want, and i am looking into possible changes. I know a 4 set bonus will be an obvious improvement, but i just dont think that is the only thing that makes my dps lack. 
      Here is a log of me wiping (alot) with my guild on Avatar.  https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K6XLCHaAvZ2r7G1y#fight=3&view=analytical&type=damage-done&source=1
      I know its not much, but there is a couple of good tries in there. 
      Any help or criticism is appreciated :)
    • By patua
      Hello mages,
      I'm frost, I'm 922, and I suck on DPS.
      The thing is that I can't find what I'm doing wrong. I played KJ'HC, and i did like 660k dps when I rly try and focus. Otherwise its 560K. I'ts like if there is movement in the fight, I loose a lot of dps - but that would also mean that my "base" dps is also much 2low.
      Would you be so kind and take a look at my log/logs and help me figure out what is happening?
      Here is the log.
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hvDwTWjJbBmd7gnk/#fight=2&view=analytical&type=summary&source=16
      Its rly frustrating, as once i get inv, I get kicked after a fight...
      This is my askmrrobot gear list.
      $52;EU;Darkmoon Faire;Patua;void;4;1;110;10:800,15:118,12:391,13:700,14:700,4:800;3;.s1;13;3121331;72,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,1,203,879,170,32,158,1,1,1,107;4,1,4,4,4,1,4,1,4,4,4,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1;143523b1482b3336b3573,137370b1532b3528b3573,137547b1542b3336b3573;;.s2;14;2112113;748,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,577,32,161,1,1,1,104;1,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1;137316b1547b3337b3535,140810b1487b3516b3528,142307b1517b3337b3418;;.s3;15;2132121;783,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,498,77,164,1,1,1,101;1,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,6,1;147095b1492b3528b3561,147076b1497b3528b3562,147093b1502b3337b3561;;.q1;127857s16b729x143523y-6153z177;4553s11b2730b111x-7299e5428;2079s12b-2013b1780b81e0;2863s5b-1861b1780b81;788s9b41b111;175s7b-3528b1445b326b1703;6s3b-2024b316b1529b183x-28e12;2488s13b-2028b2025b11;3595s6b-2026b306b1529b107x0;2585s10b-1952b1844b225;13s14b-2079b326b1720b33x0;143s15b-2069b1844b225e-4;2s1b-2069b1844b225;275s8b-2064b2031b34;343s2b-2080b2046b44e1;.q2;128820s16b730x137316y3494z1497;3590s11b2729b111x-12059e5428;1549s17;530s12b-2013b1780b81e0;2863s5b-1861b1780b81;788s9b41b111;175s7b-3528b1445b326b1703;6s3b-2024b316b1529b183x-28e12;2488s13b-2028b2025b11;3595s6b-2026b306b1529b107x0;2585s10b-1952b1844b225;13s14b-2079b326b1720b33x0;143s15b-2069b1844b225e-4;2s1b-2069b1844b225;275s8b-2064b2031b34;343s2b-2080b2046b44e1;.q3;128862s16b731x147095y-19z17;3548s11b2728b111x-16845e5427;5730s9b-111b111;175s7b-3528b1445b326b1703;6s3b-2024b316b1529b183x-29e13;2488s13b-2028b2025b11;6190s6b-3488b1477b1820b225;14s2b-2065b2031b34e-3;6s14b-3520b1450b2036b33;2s12b-2064b311b1720b34x0e-10;124s15b-2070b1844b225e9;1s10b-2064b1840b224;1s1b-2064b311b1720b34x0;2s5b-2065b1840b224;273s8b-2039b1815b225;.r;_;.inv;6948;4050;3344;1861;592;1;1;1;1;2;1;5043;1727;700;4804;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;1;0;901;99;103;13;9;1;1;3;845;1;1;1;1;1285;30;1822;251;110;17;3852;1340;649;1;1;1;1;1174;1;1;6158;1;1;1;1;3797;1001;163;3;2;1717;5012;5555;4230;5010;1;4;585;1;3;3;12;158;1118;80;1;1;2515;19;3699;26684;2;0;2;1425;49;3030b566;1869;16;0;529;4892;366b38b903b167b1800;2813;261;52;3;1;1;2562;33;797;6;7;10b-2745x143523y-6153z177;963b1x-231y3494z1497;1400;2191b1081b1759;33b-1759b1759x-12088e5439;8b-111b111x1e-12;2b-111b111;750v110b53;366;1;63b-3582b1491b195b1610;5b-3297b1502b266b1610b110e9;338b-69b111;183b-2965b897b172b1799;31b-1946b297b1512;13b-2731b912b307b1704;0b-2925b909b1824b138;13b-1922b1866b110;75b-2923b897b172b1799;31b-1936b287b1513;166b-1780b1780b81e-9;2b-1871b1963b18;8b-1991b276b1723;2276b-1974b1774b199;526b-2028b306b1601;5b-1882b1804b173;0b-1967b1794b81;23b-1880b271b1529b173;23b-1953b1780b81;94b-1871b1790b236;57b-1991b1755b199;29b-2004b1805b81;9b-1851b1769b200;683b-2044b313b1531;48;37b-1849b326b1703;3b-2024b1844b180;6b-2029b326b1703;47b-2019b1840b177e9;711b-2910b923b297b1512;38b-2732b913b291b16b1704;222b-2041b318;146;320;236;154;395;205b-323b1855b106;6b-1946b1839b180;2b-2029b2029b12;4b-2041b326b1703;44b-3475b1451b1844b108;1b-1962b1962b84;1b-2031b1839b180;2b-2029b326b1703;3b-2024b1844b180e0;31b-2009b1830b179;1b-2019b1839b180;1b-2019b1840b107;6b-3404b1442b326b1636b84x-1;1b-2056b2042b14;1b-2036b316b1528b180;1b-2024b2025b11;3b-2036b1844b180e3;6b-2024b1844b180;0b-3476b1452b1844b180e-12;3b-2029b2029b12;1b-2031b1839b180e9;4b-3475b1461b1834b181;286;246;159;512;0;32b-3477b1487b1810b173;3b-1993b1820b81;22b-1906b296b1528b80x0e3;124b-1894b286b1529b81x0;209b-2811b890b2010;1752b-48b111;145b-2068b306b1529b107x0;1b-1957b1849b108;0b-1957b1849b108;1b-1957b1849b108;1b-1957b1849b108;0b-1957b1849b108;0b-1947b1948b83;0b-2041b1849b108;0b-1957b1849b108;61b-1887b1780b81e-3;226b-1916b2026b40;2291b-2071b311b1720b34;3b-2070b2036b33;1b-2069b1844b225;1b-3521b1457b2031b34;3b-2080b2046b33;2b-2064b1840b224;1b-2064b2031b34;1b-2065b2031b34;3b-2065b311b1720b34;1b-2075b321b1528b225x0;1b-2079b326b1720b33x0;12b-2079b2046b33;4b-2079b2046b33;2b-2049b296b1529b225e-9;57b-2065b2031b34;2b-2070b2036b33;15b-2064b2031b34;54b-2070b1844b225;2b-2079b2046b33;44b-2079b2046b33;1b-2069b2036b33e0;81b-2954b1035b1886b46;457b-2092b326b1720b44x0;2b-3530b1440b326b1720b44;30b-2090b2046b44e10$