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No Plans to Allow Flying on Argus

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Ornyx has been active on the official forums recently, answering questions about flying on Argus. While some players have a feeling of flying "being taken away from them", Blizzard doesn't have any plans to allow it in the new zone.

No flight paths, just Lightforged Beacons, and on top of that, Krokul FluteKrokul Flute upgrades your Flight Master's WhistleFlight Master's Whistle to summon a krokul tunneler to take you to the nearest Lightforged Beacon while on Argus. The item is gated behind Revered reputation with Argussian Reach. Getting around on Argus doesn't seem to be much of an issue, but we'd still like to hear your thoughts in the comments!

Here's a quick summary of what Blizzard had to say about Argus flying:

  • People are upset to have "just earned flying" and now it's "taken away".
  • New zones added in Patch content have never had flying allowed. (except Tanaan, but the zone was only a part of the original overworld of Draenor. It wasn't added in a patch)
  • Argus is not supposed to be a friendly and hospitable place. If you're having trouble getting around Argus, you are probably not paying attention to the landscape.
  • There are no plans to allow flying on Argus. 
  • Flying is not a game's core feature and the community sees it as one for convenience.
  • Isle of Quel'Danas didn't have good terrain to get around, especially for the dailies with the naga (on the east side), so they didn't allow flying in the zone.

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The zone is so drab and really feels like nothing more than broken shore 2.0...same atmosphere/scenery just with too much mob density.

We spent months earning pathfinder just to have flying removed yet again.

This is going way too far blizzard, especially with the terrible terrain design on Argus. I hope blizzard will rethink their once again "no flying" debacle before they lose another drove of subscriptions in order to get their attention.

I think plenty of folks disagree with you on the first point, and Argus has been one of the best parts of Legion to me personally, but just to clarify on the second:

This is nothing new, and we don't have any plans to change this going forward. New zones added in patch content have never to my knowledge had flying allowed. Even when flying was introduced in 2.0, flying was not available on the Isle of Quel'danas when it released in 2.4. The same is true of Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle from 5.2 and 5.4. These zones have always been about exploration, with a bit of danger, and Argus fits quite nicely into that theme.

I can understand that you may have recently earned Pathfinder and want to fly, but no one is stopping you from flying anywhere you want over the Broken Isles - but this is Argus.

If you're having trouble getting around Argus, you're probably not paying attention to the landscape. If you're dying in Fel flows, you're probably charging head first into them instead of leaping across the rocks floating about. If you're constantly being tagged by mobs, you're probably missing an easier way around the groups.

Argus isn't supposed to be a friendly and hospitable place, and I wouldn't bet my gold on a demon sitting down for tea with me any time soon. If you're having trouble and finding it difficult to get around and avoid pitfalls, then Argus is working as intended.

With all due respect you guys arent understanding the issue 

Before when new patch content was released without flying.... We had had flying since the moment we hit max level. so we actually got to enjoy is for quite awhile before ti was taken away.

Now, it's taken away very shortly after most people have earned it.... DOESN'T FEEL NEARLY AS GOOD'

I do understand the "issue" but we don't see it as an "issue". You're not on the Broken Isles anymore. 

I think we'd probably try to avoid things like this being so close together in the future, but its just a symptom of timing as far as I'm aware.

Well, perhaps it's time for the development team to acknowledge that flight is actually part of the game and develop content with the idea that we can fly rather than take the mindset of "we don't like flight, so we're going to restrict it--even after making people jump through hoops and holding them back for nearly a year without it."

The genie is out of the bottle. The development team needs to open their minds to that idea rather than constantly look for ways to pull back from it. 

I remember Lich King and the idea that we could fly early. And we flew. And we had fun. It was OK, really. 


Why exactly do the developers feel that only by restricting flight can they give us new things?

We can say buzz phrases like "the genie is out of the bottle" all day, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I think it's been well acknowledged that we are still open to the idea of flight or we wouldn't have flight in any content at all, no? We've moved to meet the community in the middle - that's what Pathfinder has been about. Earn your wings: show you've achieved completion of the content overall and you can fly.

There's not really an attitude of 'close mindedness' on the topic from the development team, we've had plenty of positive discussions on the direction of flying overall. I do think, however, that there are folks in the community who are 'close minded' to entertaining an idea of "maybe you shouldn't be able to fly around and skip all the content when new areas are released". 

I think these conversations need to be a two-way street, and the more we have everyone in the community calling the development team closed minded or pointing fingers, the further we get away from amicable understanding within the community. Of course I've always been happy to have those conversations, but whenever they start they very quickly dive into arguing instead of a discussion on the merits of each approach and that's really not something I want to be apart of.

I also don't think asking pointed, rhetorical questions is going to get us anywhere.

Tanaan. Wonder why you forgot about Tanaan. 
Tanaan. The patch zone that allowed flying. 
Tanaan, the MOST RECENT patch zone before Legion. 
Tanaan, the patch zone from the only other expansion that made you earn Pathfinder to fly before this one. 
Tanaan allowed flying because after you've waited over half a year to earn something, what you want is for it to be useful going forwards.

Tanaan was technically a part of the original overworld of Draenor. It wasn't added in a patch - a door was just opened via your shipyard in patch. 

I don't think they're quite equitable for a number of reasons from how they are accessed, the number of zones, how invasions and world quests function, etc.

Uh, I hope you're saying with timing and not rolling back on content releasing faster.

Yeah, timing wise. I don't have answers in front of me, and it's just my personal opinion, but I think in terms of spacing the fact that flight landed really close to the launch of 7.3 was unfortunate timing. 

I get why people are upset to have "just earned flying" and now its "taken away".

And how much of the terrain in Isle of Quel Denas was made to intentionally impede you? in Timeless Isle?

Well, Quel'Danas was pretty much an experiment of its time, but it did have a good bit of terrain to get around, especially for the dailies on the east side of the islands with the naga and such. Argus is massive compared to Quel'Danas, so most points comparing them are pretty moot.

I don't think the terrain was made to intentionally impede you by way of making you frustrated, as you can easily teleport to any subzone of all three zones, but rather it wants you to not charge head first into everything and actually explore. If that's how we wanted the game to be played, we'd probably just have a flat plane with a couple of trees here and there. 

The most frustrating part of Argus for me has been the area between The Spirit Crucible and the entrance to Antorus in the Antoran Wastes with the demon camps, bridges, and Fel flows, but I found that I was always looking for a shortcut and jumping off ledges instead of taking the route that was laid in front of me. Once I stopped doing that and learned other paths to the areas, I was having a much better time.

Establishing a history of bad decisions doesn't make it right.

Your one-liner is nice and all, but I'd appreciate it if you could explain to me why those were "bad decisions" retrospectively.

Yet its not a core game feature, its a convenient feature that saves time daily on an MMO. I never thought of it as a core feature, as the game doesnt REQUIRE us to have flying to progress anywhere. You can easily play the full game without flying, and you can play it with flying, that does not make it a core feature if you don't require it to finish the game.

This is semantics really but I'd agree that flying is not a core game feature. The community sees it as one for convenience, but in terms of design the game plays the same with and without, so it's pretty far from what I'd consider core.

So Valley of the Four Winds/Tanaris/The Barrens/Desolace/Jade Forest?
Can we have those back? Please? I'll trade a raid tier for well-designed zones again.

Can you adequately explain why pruning game features, making players earn them back, and then pruning them again before the expansion is over is considered a good decision?

In fact, should we start calling expansions contractions if they continually remove content?

I think I remember classic Desolace and Jade Forest very different from you.

Some of us respect you Ornyx. Just because this isn't even worth your time with how 'stupid' some of these people are. I could've used a meaner word but its not worth it. I dont even understand how people seem to think flying is so important. Someone even said its a core feature, when 0% of the game require us to fly to complete it.

I don't think I'd go quite that far. There is a point to be made for flying, and I think it's become a huge part of the game for the community, so it is an important conversation for me. For example, I do think the timing here is what has made this stick out even more, with a lot of folks earning flying just a few weeks before heading to Argus. 

Anyways, I just think we need to meet in the middle and be civil and not throw threats around and we can have good conversations to take to the development team. :)

You're a Blizzard employee. You have to agree with everything they do, at least publicly here on the forums.

I don't have to agree with everything we do. I have a personal opinion that I've expressed many times about content throughout Legion and beyond.

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I think this is certainly open up to honest debate.

Who in the world actually enjoyed desolace?

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The thing Onyx seems to hedge the hell around is how flying in this expansion required way way too many hoops.    He remarks on the "unfortunate timing" several times but the fact is we should have had access to flying much earlier in the expansion; IMO it should have been a reward after killing Xavius and reaching revered with all factions in the legion zones.   At that point you've clearly quested everywhere, the "puzzle artifacts" and other things flying trivializes are either done or irrelevant anyway, etc.   

Again, the hoops made to get flying this expansion just got way too convoluted, and that's not even counting their original intent of doing an invasion in each territory and whatnot.

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Flying in Argus is unnecessary. Yes the mobs are hard and scary but it's the Legion's base of operations for goodness sake!! You go 20 feet up on your Ashes of Alar and see how long it takes them to shoot you down!!
I would like it if they actually had that happening in the game though, like when you fly over the druid or hunter order halls and get kicked out.
Or even just some flimsy justification that someone mentions somewhere.

On the topic of Pathfinder generally, I love the mechanic. It means you are more immersed in the world the first time you run through the content (and it really really is more immersive) and then later in the expansion, when there is more to get done regularly or you want to start on alts, you have the magic of flight to make it faster and easier.
That said, I agree with Migol and Ornyx about the difficulty and timing of it this expansion. One of my friends quit because he looked at Pathfinder, Part 2 (before they nerfed it) and realised he just couldn't do the grind anymore.

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I find it interesting how the point that is consistently brought up is that flying is "taken away" as if Blizzard said here you go you can fly now, and then decided nope... no more flying until next time.  You can still fly in the Broken Isles, you can still fly in Kalimdor, you can still fly in Eastern Kingdoms, and Northrend, and Draenor as well.  You just don't have the ability on Argus, I mean it kind of makes sense.  Argus, the Eredar homeworld, headquarters for the Burning Legion, an overinfested landscape with nothing but demonic beings and corrupted entities, and the shell of A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TITAN SOUL... I mean who knows It could be the demonic energies that dampen our mounts and their abilities to fly (yes I'm reaching but it makes sense in my head).

The point is that flying has not been taken away in any form.  It was just not made available in the Argus zones.

 

My only gripe (albeit a small one) is that I can't use my new class hall mount on Argus as a Druid... This is unacceptable!  but meh... I'll live to world quest another day.

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My only gripe (albeit a small one) is that I can't use my new class hall mount on Argus as a Druid

I have the same problem just before the Kil'jaeden fight in ToS. My guildies were all showing off their class mounts just after they got them and there's me as a stag :(

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I enjoy the fact that flying is disabled in Argus.  It makes the zone feel larger and more dangerous (as intended).  This is enemy territory; flying would be quite hazardous, if not impossible (or maybe you should watch the cinematic again, for reference).

 

Pathfinder flying is meant to make the Broken Isles feel less threatening and less intimidating because we are now taking the fight to them (the isles are no longer a threat).

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14 minutes ago, DeathsDesign said:

(yes I'm reaching but it makes sense in my head)

This is pretty much what I'm getting from Blizzard too. "It makes sense to us so deal with it".

 

Draenor, anyone? This is just a repeat.

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17 minutes ago, Ancalagon said:

I enjoy the fact that flying is disabled in Argus.  It makes the zone feel larger and more dangerous (as intended).  This is enemy territory; flying would be quite hazardous, if not impossible (or maybe you should watch the cinematic again, for reference).

I kind of agree and disagree at the same time, and it's heavily dependent on what I am playing. As a Blood DK, I couldn't care less. Honestly, not in the slightest. I can pull an entire zone and survive, no questions asked. As an Arcane Mage, navigating the zones to try grab an elite at the end is hell. I guess it's all part of class fantasy, one is a walking corpse in armour and one is wearing a dress, but yeah.

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Idk I don't mind not being able to fly, it adds the risk of dying. It does give a better sense of danger for sure. My only gripe is I can't Heroic leap anywhere I want.

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2 minutes ago, Blainie said:

I kind of agree and disagree at the same time, and it's heavily dependent on what I am playing. As a Blood DK, I couldn't care less. Honestly, not in the slightest. I can pull an entire zone and survive, no questions asked. As an Arcane Mage, navigating the zones to try grab an elite at the end is hell. I guess it's all part of class fantasy, one is a walking corpse in armour and one is wearing a dress, but yeah.

Hahaha, yeah, I suppose that's true.  As a prot pally, I can survive anything; but as soon as I switch to Ret... I need to use strategy or group with friends.  But I still don't mind it, even on my squishy alts.  If nothing else, it encourages people to work together, or think outside of the box.  This is an invasion after all, running through enemy ranks the same way that you do back home isn't going to cut it.

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16 minutes ago, Bjorn said:

Idk I don't mind not being able to fly, it adds the risk of dying. It does give a better sense of danger for sure. My only gripe is I can't Heroic leap anywhere I want.

They actually fixed/broke the hook for Outlaw so they can't use it to grab easy chests.

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12 minutes ago, Ancalagon said:

Hahaha, yeah, I suppose that's true.  As a prot pally, I can survive anything; but as soon as I switch to Ret... I need to use strategy or group with friends.  But I still don't mind it, even on my squishy alts.  If nothing else, it encourages people to work together, or think outside of the box.  This is an invasion after all, running through enemy ranks the same way that you do back home isn't going to cut it.

Definitely a fair point, it wouldn't make much sense to run in and yolo my way through swathes of demons. The new buffs available do make it better though, with the tank for 45 seconds. Makes things far, far easier on my Mage and the damage buff is great for my tank.

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I think it would be pretty cool if they allowed flight BUT had Legion troops in the sky everywhere ready to shoot you down.

That way you still have to pay attention to where you're going, and you really can't just fly from objective to objective safely. If anything, make flying more dangerous than ground travel, to make up for the ability to skip terrain. Make them dismount you while you're flying. Make them do more damage. Make them maintain aggro much longer/farther than regular mobs. Lots of ways to do it.

It makes sense that we wouldn't be able to just safely fly around, but at the same time it doesn't mean it should prevent us from trying. The game doesn't prevent us from running through every pack of mobs even though we generally aren't able to safely do so, either.

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The truth is, nobody would give a shit about this if they hadn't given flying so late in Broken Isles. No, I don't need flying to get around Argus, but don't make me waste my fucking time on pathfinder 2 for this BS

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5 minutes ago, Ammako said:

I think it would be pretty cool if they allowed flight BUT had Legion troops in the sky everywhere ready to shoot you down.

That way you still have to pay attention to where you're going, and you really can't just fly from objective to objective safely. If anything, make flying more dangerous than ground travel, to make up for the ability to skip terrain. Make them dismount you while you're flying. Make them do more damage. Make them maintain aggro much longer/farther than regular mobs. Lots of ways to do it.

It makes sense that we wouldn't be able to just safely fly around, but at the same time it doesn't mean it should prevent us from trying. The game doesn't prevent us from running through every pack of mobs even though we generally aren't able to safely do so, either.

I wonder if they could have done something like this with the light tank we get. It could have been on a certain cooldown, two minutes or so and it has an HP bar. There are mobs in the air shooting you, etc., and with smart flying you can fly wherever you need to go. If you are careless though, you will take damage, it will be destroyed and you then have to wait for the cooldown to come off. Would have been a brilliant skill over the current tank form.

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Personally I don't care about flying one way or another, the problem I with Argus is the mob density.  Just too many trash mobs around. It wouldn't be so bad if Blizzard had given us a reason to fight them outside of the occasional world quests.  I just see players running past after being dismounted dragging 10-15 mobs behind them.  Super fun and immersive etc.

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Like others have said, the problem lies with mob density and respawn times. Some classes and specs don't care whatever happens, but when you're working on rep on a third or fourth alt and it's taking you two or even three times as long to get to A to B or to finish a quest because everything just keeps piling onto you then the zone loses the threatening and this is the end game vibe and just becomes an even more tedious grind that your big scary main didn't have to deal with. Switching specs is easier than ever before though thankfully, and we have things such as bodyguards to take the rest of the pressure off, but I'm more concerned about the implications for the future; this kind of design implementation is fine by me if it makes sense, but this already does feel like Broken Shore 2.0 or Tanaan Jungle Nightmare Mode Unlocked, but they eventually allowed for flying to be opened up in the future. I mean, from short term (alting) to long term (going back for achievement and so forth), it's quite a poor attitude to just tell us they won't do it at all when we already pretty much know better than them at this point. 

They could also do themselves and us a huge favour and make more of an effort to make zones feel more three dimensional. They control the skies? Then fucking show us. Give us world bosses that provide a flying buff for an hour or two. Make us fight for things instead of  causing a shitstorm on the forums over it. 

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23 minutes ago, Plergoth said:

Give us world bosses that provide a flying buff for an hour or two. Make us fight for things... 

I could get on-board with that.  I think it would build a better game to have world objectives that both factions can work toward achieving, that would offer a temporary reward, making the invasion a little easier for a short duration.  This would feel and act a lot like the old Hellfire Peninsula buffs, for taking control of towers; only rather than making it a PvP objective, there is more emphasis on PvE cross-faction cooperation.

 

It would also give the player a sense of ebb and flow, as the battle for control over invasion points swings in favor of the invaders and then swings back in favor of the legion.

Edited by Ancalagon
additional thought.
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To start with, I LOVE flying. Everywhere and anywhere. So I find the decision to not have flying in Argus slightly disappointing, because flying is fun. I'm not particularly surprised, as I was warned by long term players that it's likely to be like Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder. I don't much care for those zones. But oh well. However, I kind of take issue with the statement that if you're having trouble getting around in Argus you aren't paying attention to the terrain. I'm paying attention, trust me. MacAree isn't too bad, but the Antoran Wastes are so layered that it's difficult to find the path to things. The arrow to the objective says, "Go that way." but how to get there is not very clear at all. The paths could be more clearly defined on the map.

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What really frustrates me is where mobs are placed. They seem to place rares where you see them while questing but you cant get there directly from the quest area. You have to ride around a quarter of the zone and up or down a mountain to get to a mob thats right next to you. Chests which have a long wait and appear for short times are only adding to the frustration. I play to ease the stress of everyday life, not add to it. Warcraft is a game, it should be fun, not frustrating.

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3 hours ago, munchkin said:

Flying in Argus is unnecessary. Yes the mobs are hard and scary but it's the Legion's base of operations for goodness sake!! You go 20 feet up on your Ashes of Alar and see how long it takes them to shoot you down!!
I would like it if they actually had that happening in the game though, like when you fly over the druid or hunter order halls and get kicked out.
Or even just some flimsy justification that someone mentions somewhere.

On the topic of Pathfinder generally, I love the mechanic. It means you are more immersed in the world the first time you run through the content (and it really really is more immersive) and then later in the expansion, when there is more to get done regularly or you want to start on alts, you have the magic of flight to make it faster and easier.
That said, I agree with Migol and Ornyx about the difficulty and timing of it this expansion. One of my friends quit because he looked at Pathfinder, Part 2 (before they nerfed it) and realised he just couldn't do the grind anymore.

The enemy in Legion has had anti-aircraft/flying weaponry in zones we have already had flying permitted in so that argument doesn't really make much sense. Using logic with WOW is typically a big mistake, lol. Don't forget that according to Blizz "flying breaks immersion".

I don't mind traveling on a ground mount at the moment. If they decide to add flying in a couple months that would be fine. The upgraded flight whistle should suffice for the meanwhile.

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1 hour ago, ChaosDecides said:

"flying breaks immersion".

Loading screens also break immersion, and that would be my biggest complaint about Argus.

It doesn't feel like a world, just a few isolated zones on their own, which it is to be fair.

They are never going to allow flying, because it would suck hitting the invisible wall around each zone, then having to use the beacons to switch zones as they aren't connected in any way.

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I just find it funny that for seven years flying wasn't an issue yet for some reason now it is. The only reasons I can see them not wanting to allow flying is: it is easier for them to make zones (in other words be lazy) and to artificially make content last longer. Now if this was any other expansion I could see reason number two being somewhat justified however (and this is a complement) this expansion has so much to do already. On top of that, if you manage to get to a point in which you have done everything then good chance you would like to do it again on an alt. Also could some one describe to me what exactly "immersion" is? It a buzz word thrown around a lot and doesn't seem to match up with it's actual definition. Actually let me rephrase that last question. Why is don't they tell us the real reason instead of just using it as a blanket defense?

Edited by Granis
Rephrasing

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      You will be attacked by SI:7 Agents and the quest is complete when you defeat all three.
      You need to keep moving, because SI:7 Agents are probably looking for Saurfang as well.
      Eastern Escape
      It's not unusual to see SI:7 spies lurking around the city, but still, something about this doesn't feel right. We need to find where Saurfang's trail picks up. The last tracks were heading east, towards Redridge. At the entrance to Redridge is Three Corners, one of the more well-defended towers the Alliance has. I have an idea, meet me there.
      The search for Saurfang continues in Redridge Mountains.
      Corner Crossing
      If Saurfang was headed in this direction, it would have been difficult for him to avoid the Three Corners watchpost. We could simply walk in there and demand information, but I have a feeling that they would not part with it willingly. So we will take another approach. I have procured this potion from our alchemists. It will turn us into--ugh-- humans for a while. We can then question the guards, perhaps someone saw something.
      Use the Humanizing Potion to turn yourself into a Human for 10 minutes and ask guards for information. After you taken on the appearance of a Human, Lyana tells you:
      You're going to approach guards and tell them you've lost a puppy. Dark Ranger Lyana goes by the name "Marion Sutton" when transformed.
      The guards were super drunk last night and they do not recall anything. It must have been fairly easy for Saurfang to pass by the Three Corner watchpost unnoticed. Now you question Darcy Parker about what happened last night.
      The search continues in Lakeshire at Inkeeper Brianna. She informs you that guards are staying upstairs at the Lakeshire Inn. After searching the room for clues, you find an Official-Looking Note from Shaw:
      Signs of Saurfang
      With the guards drunk at their posts, Saurfang would have had little trouble passing Three Corners undetected. The path splits up ahead. The back roads of Redridge are poorly-patrolled and infested with gnolls and spiders. In other words, a perfect path for an orc trying to not to be noticed. His most likely path is Lakeridge Highway, we should continue our investigation there.
      You'll find ripped webbing, ichor, and plenty of killed spiders in Lakeridge Highway.
      Defeat the Injured Bristlequeen to complete the quest.
      Ever Eastward
      All signs point to our quarry heading farther east. To what end, Im an not sure, but I have my suspicions. I am going to scout the area from the air, let's meet up at Redridge Pass.
      Tracking Tipoff
      Look there, down the hill, one of the Alliance hunters that roams the area. No one knows these pathways like them. If our quarry passed through this area, they would certainly have seen the tracks. Their dogs may even have noticed. Here is another dose of the potion. Let us question this one while he is alone.
      It's time to drink  Humanizing Potion again and question Hunter McAlister who is later killed, because his dogs notice you're not actual humans.
      Killing Hunter McAlister and his dogs makes Zappyboi appear! Zekhan offers the next quest while Lyana informs you she must return to the Warchief.
      Zekhan tells you that Saurfang's hiding at a nearby farm.
      Grim Tidings
      Ey mon, dat dark ranger, she lied to ya'! Saurfang knew they'd be comin' for him. He sent me to watch the pass, see who his assassins were, try to warn him if I could. She's not reportin' back nothin', she's goin' to kill him. Probably got a whole group of deathguards just waiting for her to give the signal. We gotta stop dem! You with me?
      Dark Ranger Lyana lied to you and she wants to kill him. Better hurry and inform Saurfang who's located in the Swamp of Sorrows.
      A Warrior's Death
      She gonna try an' take him in, and then no one ever gonna see Varok Saurfang again. Dis was never a rescue mission, dis was about power, an' control, an' Sylvanas think she be holdin' all the cards. But she didn't count on us! Let's go.
      Turns out Sylvanas actually tricked you and wants Saurfang dead.
      Completing the quest rewards a fun cloak toy - Worn Cloak. A scripted event will begin as soon as you accept the quest and you must defend Saurfang.
      Dark Ranger Lyana and her crew die, but now you must come up with something to fool Sylvanas.
      Queen's Favor
      I have two things to ask of you, and I do not ask them lightly. First, I need you to retain the favor of the warchief. She will undoubtedly have questions, and seeds of distrust may begin to grow, but she cannot lose you as an ally, not now. She would not so willingly part with one of her greatest champions. In order to do so, it will have to look like you faced me in combat, and lost. I trust you can take a hit. Second, I ask you not to follow me further. I must make this journey alone.
      Talk to Saurfang and tell him to punch you. The screen turns black for a second and you will be afflicted with the "Convincing Blow" debuff for 10 minutes.
      Finally, go to Orgrimmar and talk to Sylvanas in Grommash Hold to complete the Queen's Favor quest that rewards Artifact Power.
      The story ends here. Sylvanas doesn't know you defeated the dark ranger and her forces along with Saurfang and Zekhan. Let's see what the future holds for Varok. Let us know what you think about his story so far and Sylvanas wanting him dead.
      Characters Involved in the Questline
      Dark Ranger Lyana
      Veteran Dark Ranger appointed by Sylvanas to help you track down Saurfang. In the beginning, it all looks like a rescue mission, but further down the questline you learn that she was deceiving you all along. She's later killed by the player, Saurfang, and Zekhan.
      Varok Saurfang
      Saurfang escaped the Stockades and you find him hiding at a farm in the swamps with simple armor and without the "High Overlord" title, indicating his discontent with Sylvanas' Horde. He probably works with Matthias Shaw who gave guards booze allowing Saurfang to pass by the watchpost unnoticed. You confront Dark Ranger Lyana and her forces as you uncover her vile intentions and learn that the rescue mission was actually a lie and Sylvanas wants him dead. He doesn't want you or Zekhan to follow him, because he clearly states that he must travel the path alone. The character of Saurfang remains the embodiment of the Horde's long-lost honor.
      Zekhan
      Zappyboi makes an appearance during the questline and fights alongside Saurfang. Blizzard did a really great job at portraying him loyal to Varok at times of need as we saw in the Old Soldier cinematic.
      Lady Sylvanas Windrunner
      Another lie has been told by the Warchief. First, she makes you believe it's of utmost importance to track down Saurfang, who recently escaped the Stockades, so that the Alliance does not kill him. Later, she accuses Varok of treason against the Horde and wants him dead. After you kill Lyana and her forces, you fool her into believing that Saurfang did all that. Blizzard confirmed in an interview that Sylvanas will not be Garrosh 2.0 in Battle for Azeroth.
      Gameplay Video
      Saurfang-Sylvanas relations hit an all-time low in Tides of Vegeance.
    • By Stan
      The Orc running animation has been updated on 8.1 PTR and here's a side by side preview of the new animation.
      Grandfa made a post about the new Orc animation on the official forums and also posted a short clip comparing both live and 8.1 versions of the running animation. Do you prefer the old or new one?
      Check out our Tides of Vengeance hub for the latest Patch 8.1 information!
    • By Starym
      After the recent renaming of the Siege of Zuldazar to Battle of Dazar'alor we're getting some more Heroic and Normal testing, featuring two faction-specific days on Thursday (Horde) and Friday (Alliance) and then the rest of the weekend for Normal.
      October 18-22 (source)
      On Thursday, October 18th and Friday, October 19th we will be conducting raid tests of the Battle of Dazar'alor. Once Heroic raid testing has concluded on Friday, we will open a portion of the zone for Normal raid testing over the weekend.

      Due to the faction specific setup of Battle of Dazar'alor, Thursday's raid test will be HORDE ONLY and Friday's Heroic raid test will be ALLIANCE ONLY. Copying a character to PTR will apply a faction transfer that can be used at your discretion. Please ensure that your character is setup for the appropriate faction prior to the test.

      Thursday, October 18th

      HORDE ONLY:

      Flamefist and the Illuminated - Heroic Battle of Dazar'alor
      13:00 PDT (16:00 EDT, 22:00 CEST)

      Stormwall Blockade - Heroic Battle of Dazar'alor
      14:00 PDT (17:00 EDT, 23:00 CEST)

      Friday, October 19th

      ALLIANCE ONLY:

      Treasure Guardian - Heroic Battle of Dazar'alor
      13:00 PDT (16:00 EDT, 22:00 CEST)

      Conclave of the Chosen - Heroic Battle of Dazar'alor
      14:00 PDT (17:00 EDT, 23:00 CEST)

      BOTH FACTIONS:

      Normal Battle of Dazar'alor
      15:00 PDT (18:00 EDT, 24:00 CEST)

      As always, this testing schedule is very fluid and subject to the realities of a test environment. We might have to change the time of a testing session, change the bosses being tested, or cancel a test entirely, due to bugs, server hardware issues, etc. Keep an eye on this forum for the latest information, and thank you in advance for testing and providing feedback.

      Q: How do I get into the raid zone?

      A: In Zuldazar, Boralus, Dalaran, Orgrimmar, or Stormwind, you may speak to Nexus-Lord Donjon Rade III in order to teleport into the raid zone while it is open for testing. (The option to teleport into a zone will not be available when the zone is not open for testing.)

      Q: What character should I use to test the raid?

      A: Whichever you prefer. We will be scaling players' effective level to 120 for raid testing, and their item level to an appropriate threshold for the encounter(s) being tested.

      Q: How long does testing last?

      A: The primary purpose of testing is to give us the information we need to balance the encounters, evaluate how mechanics are playing out in practice, and identify bugs. Once we're satisfied that we've received that information for a given boss, we'll be shutting down testing. Usually this takes anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours, but there are no guarantees.
    • By Stan
      Tides of Vengeance is available for playtesting and our hub contains all the latest information!
      Welcome to our Tides of Vengeance hub. Here, you'll find all the latest information about Battle for Azeroth's first content patch 8.1. We will keep the hub updated throughout PTR testing with the latest coverage.
      Introduction
      Patch 8.1 called Tides of Vengeance was pushed to PTR on September 21. Players are still unable to log in to the game right now (September 26). The patch will be released later this year.
      Latest Coverage
      This section contains contains the most recent coverage. Whenever there's a new PTR build, we'll move the previous builds down to the "Datamining Archive [PH]" section.
      Patch 8.1 Build #28048
      Patch 8.1 Build 28048 Overview The Story of Varok Saurfang in Patch 8.1 Orc Running Animation Updated Patch 8.1 Content
      Heritage Armor will be added for non-Allied Races; Blood Elves & Dwarves are first on the list. There's no reputation grind behind this. If you're at max level and Exalted with Ironforge/Blood Elves, you can start the quest and complete a scenario to get your Heritage Armor. Reputation Paragon for BfA factions is coming. Champions of Azeroth reputation will be made account-wide. Incursions are a new feature similar to Legion assaults. Darkshore Warfront (Night Elves vs Forsaken theme) The outdoor zone will be updated just like Arathi Highlands with new quests, rares, etc. War Campaign continues with the Alliance leading a direct strike at the Zandalari Fleet. We can expect two new raids in 8.1: Siege of Zuldazar is a nine-boss raid where the foe is the opposing faction. Alliance players will join Jaina and her forces to fight their way up to the pyramid to confront Rastakhan. Horde players will try to defend the pyramid, fighting Jaina in the High Seas as the final boss. Crucible of Storms is a two-boss raid located under Shrine of the Storm that hints at Queen Azshara. It's Battle for Azeroth's "Trial of Valor" raid. Allied Races: Kul Tirans and Zandalari Trolls will become available for gameplay after the Siege of Zuldazar raid. You can find more details about how to unlock them here. Two New Islands: Jorundall (Vrykul-themed Island) & Havenswood (Gilnean-themed Island) Gnomeregan Pet Battle Dungeon Profession Changes New Scenarios Tyrande's Ascension - players will unlok new Night Elf Warrior customization options with dark eyes. Cooking Scenario with Nomi Unknown Tol Dagor Scenario Heritage Armor Scenarios Vol'jin's Story Continues - The Shadow Hunter is looking for answers s in 8.1 as he tries to figure out why he appointed Sylvanas for Warchief. Allied Races
      You will be able to unlock Legion Allied Races faster in Patch 8.1.
      Class Changes
      Multiple Classes are subject to changes in Patch 8.1. These include Elemental Shamans, Shadow Priests, and Protection Warriors. So far, Blizzard outlined plans for Elemental Shamans. They haven't decided what to do with Protection Warriors just yet.
      Elemental Shaman Changes Model Updates
      Draenei totems received new models with a higher polygon count in 8.1.
      Draenei Shaman Totems Model Update Interviews/Livestreams
      Game Director Ion Hazzikostas unveiled Patch 8.1 on September 18.
      Tides of Vengeance Livestream with Game Director Ion Hazzikostas Tides of Vengeance Live Developer Q&A with Game Director Ion Hazzikostas Datamining Archive [PH]
      As with previous patches, there's going to be a new PTR build every week and to keep things organized, we're going to post build overviews below.
      Patch 8.1 Build #27985
      Patch 8.1 Build 27985 Overview Patch 8.1 Build 27985: New Creature Models Patch 8.1 Build 27985: New Paladin Animations Patch 8.1 Build 27985: Solo Queue for Legion Raids Enabled Patch 8.1 Build 27985: Dwarf Heritage Armor Preview Patch 8.1 Build 27985: Siege of Zuldazar Weapons Patch 8.1 Build #27826
      Patch 8.1 Build 27826 Overview (Datamined Broadcast Text, Zones, Strings, Scenarios) *Spoilers* Patch 8.1 Build 27286: Vol'jin's Story Continues (Datamined Broadcast Text Analysis) *Spoilers* Patch 8.1 Build 27826: New Creature Models Patch 8.1 Build 27286: New Night Elf Warrior Customization Options Patch 8.1 Build 27286: New Druid Forms (Highmountain Tauren/Kul Tiran Moonkin Forms, Zandalari Aquatic Form) Patch 8.1 Build 27286: Kul Tiran Horse Racial Mount Patch 8.1 Build 27286: Nightsaber Mounts Patch 8.1 Build 27286: The Hivemind Mount Returns Patch 8.1 Build 27286: Vicious PvP Mounts Tides of Vengeance is Battle for Azeroth's first major content patch and we created a hub to keep track of everything.