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Sorbbie

My Ret Pally's dps is just pitiful

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This is certainly not a new topic on this forum.  I've tried to read most all postings on Ret Pally's and dps and comments. I am following the rotation I found here on Icy Veins and have put the rotations on Key bindings. I was in a bg today and someone whispered to me "hey guy, you need to put your rotation on key bindings, you suck."  I'm a woman,   My kill in bg is good, up with everyone else's but I always have the lowest dps.  I thought about just quitting this toon and bring up one of the 3 100's I have but I feel like if I quit I will lose out on playing skills that I need and will never learn to play as well as I could.  Besides, I don't like to just quit.  Thank you for any help and/or advice you can give me. 

I am at 48 on my artifact weapon, I'm 110 Ret Pally on Kargath.  Fionoria is my toon's name.   Below is a link to my character and all stats, please have a look.

ADDING BG Stats for tonight: 2 killing blow, 5 deaths, 185 honor kills, dps; 18707, healing 40,000,

Please give advice, I would really appreciate your help.  Thank you. 

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/kargath/fionoria

Edited by Fionoria
adding my stats from last bg

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I won't be able to give the kind of intricate, detailed advice that those with paladin mains will offer- but I can give some general advice that I hope is helpful! First of all, in my experience pure DPS isn't a great indicator of skill or success in a battleground. Are you shutting down the rogue stunning the healer? Are you staying alive while running a flag? You won't do a lot of dps doing those things, but they are just as important. Are you only concerned with your dps in PvP, or are you trying to gauge your progress in dungeons or raids? I know how it feels to want to stick with a character but also being frustrated. I think there are still a lot of good places for you to find some argunite gear to help boost your ilvl for more dps overall!

(Also, people always say 'guy' or 'man' to me on WoW too (even though I'm not).. I'm just used to it.)

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Hi Laura,

Thank you for taking the time to reply.  I was never really too concerned with dps until team players in bg's made me concerned.  Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they did and I'm trying to improve it but the comments are not always nice, some are just plan mean.  I have played WOW for 12 years, but my husband and I just quested and lvled up.  Kinda of like having 12 years of play but only one year of experience.  We just started playing dungeons, bgs, and raids about a year ago. 
Thank you for the empathy and for pointing out that there are other parts of play that are just as important. 

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you can try the add-on Hekili (https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/hekili) it attempts to optimize your rotation based on priority, i like it very much. 

Also i use this to help me track holy power more easily while fighting https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/simple-holy-power

 

Hopefully these add-ons help you

Edited by LawRock

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Thank you LawRock, I'll try the addons and post the results, as I'm sure there are other's having dps trouble.  Thank you for taking time to offer advice. 

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On 10/18/2017 at 9:50 PM, Fionoria said:

Thank you LawRock, I'll try the addons and post the results, as I'm sure there are other's having dps trouble.  Thank you for taking time to offer advice. 

If only CLCRet was still around! It was a great addon for Ret, had the rotation down perfectly and you didn't have to set anything. It was like a ret-only Hekili.

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Ret in a pvp situation is a very difficult thing to judge as there's so many little factors that come into play when deciding your next move, even with a rotation addon like CLCRet you shouldn't be going off it 100% as you should be making small adjustments that only come with time and skill. Keep going at it, keep trying and you'll get more comfortable and learn more as you go. 

Don't go off what other people say either. Learn at your own pace and just keep pushing yourself to improve.

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40 minutes ago, Oreoxd said:

Ret in a pvp situation is a very difficult thing to judge as there's so many little factors that come into play when deciding your next move

In any PvP situation, you basically only need to know 2 things: downtime and burst.

For OP:

Your downtime as Ret is ensuring you are building Holy Power and keeping yourself alive between burst periods. 

Your burst is when you max out Holy Power and are ready to try and kill the enemy. Pop Judgement debuff, dump holy power, use CC to push for kill. If it doesn't work, you reset with downtime and try again. Use CDs as you can.

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Oreoxd, thank you.  You are right, I get stuck on the "perfect rotation" so desperate to get my dps up to what others think is acceptable and I forget that I'm playing other players (pvp) with a mind and imagination so I need to use mine.  I won't give up, I'll keep playing and keep reading what you more knowledgeable players write and suggest.   I'll continue to practice and improve because I'm still having fun.   

 

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Blainie, I really liked what you said, "...you basically only need to know 2 things: downtime and burst."  That helped me so much, giving me better focus, deeper understanding.  Thank you for taking the time to answer me. 

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4 minutes ago, Fionoria said:

Blainie, I really liked what you said, "...you basically only need to know 2 things: downtime and burst."  That helped me so much, giving me better focus, deeper understanding.  Thank you for taking the time to answer me. 

That's what we're here for! Glad to have helped :)

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your stats seem off to me... Haste should be#1  sim often and use a addon like pawn to help with gear. Also missing enchants on gear get haste for rings and hidden satyr on neck

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Rathoriel, that sounds good, thanks for looking at my gear.  I'll work on changing out my gear and adding the right enchants. 

Thank you,

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To echo the last response, having Mastery that high means you absolutely must have Judgement on your target when you burst or your DPS will suffer immensely. Check out Icy Vein's stat priorities and switch around a few pieces of gear.

In general, Haste is most valuable for PvP, very closely followed by Crit, then Versatility. In PvE, Crit usually takes top spot, but Haste is still very important to have at least around 20-25%.

Your best change would be to trade 10% of Mastery and 5-10% of Versatility for some Haste/Crit.

Lastly, take a look at this site's PvP guide for talents, it breaks down very well your options and best choices.

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I'm not sure why you have Greater Judgment talented, swap that out unless you're hitting packs of enemies.  I cant see that being very common in PVP (albeit I don't do it frequently.)  

Haste and STR enchants all around.

I see you're 8/9 Tomb, have you not picked up any Tier?  

Edited by PatrickHenry
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2 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

I cant see that being very common in PVP (albeit I don't do it frequently.)  

Outside of Alterac Valley, it's really not very common, no, so good advice on that.

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Another Ret Pally suggested Greater Judgement for me after we were in a bg.  Again, about the same kill ratio but she had a million in dps and I looked like I was running behind my toon with a bigger, better character.  Should I be using Zeal?  Crusade?  I'll put it back to Zeal and wait for your answer. 

Also, how do you find the equipment with the right numbers?  If I do a raid, I rarely get a great drop, and I'm not going to pay the AH's prices.

Thank you PatrickHenry for your advice.   

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On 11/13/2017 at 9:00 PM, Fionoria said:

Also, how do you find the equipment with the right numbers?  If I do a raid, I rarely get a great drop, and I'm not going to pay the AH's prices.  

With the introduction of Argus, you can spam roll for pieces of gear at the vendor and get some great upgrades (had 2 940+ pieces myself). Do your world quests, do the weekly quests and get as much Argunite as possible.

Take Zeal as your replacement for GJ.

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On 11/13/2017 at 2:00 PM, Fionoria said:

Another Ret Pally suggested Greater Judgement for me after we were in a bg.  Again, about the same kill ratio but she had a million in dps and I looked like I was running behind my toon with a bigger, better character.  Should I be using Zeal?  Crusade?  I'll put it back to Zeal and wait for your answer. 

Also, how do you find the equipment with the right numbers?  If I do a raid, I rarely get a great drop, and I'm not going to pay the AH's prices.

Thank you PatrickHenry for your advice.   

I do not know about BG's but for raids and dungeons zeal is the better choice for single target and Greater Judgement is a good choice for AOE. Also I noticed your lvl 75 talent choice you chose Justicars vengence This really only is good for solo content and even then not that good. I would change this to either eye for an eye or word of glory. 

When it comes to gear your stat priority is Strength>Haste>Crit=Vers=Mastery. Usually go with item lvl over stats but if the item lvl is only 5 items higher then you will want to sim it.

For Flasks and Potions you want to use Flask of the countless armies and Potion of the Old war. 

For Enchants you want Mark of the hidden satyr on your neck, Enchant - Binding of Strength on your back, and Enchant - Bindning of Haste on your rings. Gems you want to use Saber Eye of strength in one socket and Quick Lightsphene in all other sockets. 

If you get the legendary Chain of Thrayn this should be used with your back legendary. Hope this helps. 

Edited by greenminow

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On 11/17/2017 at 6:04 PM, greenminow said:

When it comes to gear your stat priority is Strength>Haste>Crit=Vers=Mastery. Usually go with item lvl over stats but if the item lvl is only 5 items higher then you will want to sim it.

If we are talking PvP, which assuming the OP wants to play BGs we are, item level is king, since stats make no difference in PvP instances.

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Greenminow, Thank you, all good advice.  Which I will follow.  I'll go back to eye for an eye.  I'll change out some of my gear as I get other gear lower in Mastery.  I'll work on the Enchants.

Thank you.

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18 hours ago, Fionoria said:

Greenminow, Thank you, all good advice.  Which I will follow.  I'll go back to eye for an eye.  I'll change out some of my gear as I get other gear lower in Mastery.  I'll work on the Enchants.

Thank you.

What are you aiming to actually play in? PvE or PvP? We can then clear up what to focus on/not to.

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I have quests to do like everyone else, especially in Argus, but I really like battlegrounds.  I'd rather play in bg's than anything else.  I'd like to get into rated bg's but not until I work out my dps issues, which still haven't improved much.  I'm collecting argunite to boost my ilvl and reduce mastery, I've gotten my mastery down from 43% to 29% and haste up to 20%.  Better, but still working on it.  I'm using Pawn, and Maxdps-paladin.  Hopefully, when I get my gear right, enhancements, and all, I should see better dps.  One thing that bothered me: I took everything off of my toon, all of it, It had nothing on, no armor, jewelry, no weapons and it still showed that I had 20% Mastery!  Is that normal?  When I put all the gear back on master actually went down 4 pts on the overall score.  Freaky...

Anyway, Thank you Blainie, I really appreciate all of your advice and the time you have taken to help me. 

 

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I have gotten my Mastery down to 27%, my haste up to 24%. I know I need to get the haste higher but  I have changed the gems to 150 Haste and 100 Haste,  I use the addons Maxdps Paladins, and Pawn for ilvl.  I was in the bg Eye of the Storm tonight; I had 42 honorable kills, died 3 times, and my dps was less than 10,000.  Another Retribution Paladin on our Alliance team had 44 honorable kills, not sure of her deaths, but her dps was 147mil.  I carried the flag once, she didn't and she got 750 honor points and I got 550. 

 

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14 hours ago, Fionoria said:

I have gotten my Mastery down to 27%, my haste up to 24%.

Okay, so. For PvP, gear means absolutely nothing. It's completely useless outside of being an item level stick. There is a set template of stats for PvP and, as soon as you enter a PvP instance, you will immediately have the template put onto you. The template has a certain ratio of stats and as your item level increases, your stats increase slightly too. Even if you have 0 of a stat, the template will still give you a certain amount of it. If you're just looking to PvP, completely ignore stats and find as much item level as possible.

It's also worth noting that any kind of damage or DPS figures are pretty much useless in a battleground for comparing performance. A Shadow Priest, for example, will always top damage because of constant rolling DoTs. One ret can spend the entire time in mid, fighting over the flag and never killing anything with 100+m dps, but then end up barely contributing to the team at all. 

Focus on winning your own battles. Pick an objective, either take it or defend it. Move with your team as well as you can, don't fight alone 1vX, prioritise healers. Form your own rotation for putting out as much damage as possible on a single target. Ignore other targets for bonus damage, just kill your priority. That kill is worth more than some extra damage. 

PvP is very different from PvE, so the advice given is also very different.

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