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Oxygen

Six Aspects of HotS That Need Improvement

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An incredibly thorough and well written piece reflecting everything and more the kind of improvements and features HotS players want to see. The reconnect system for me should be a priority, both with the AI control and the catch up after reconnecting makes an otherwise fun game extremely stressful out of nowhere, but things like a gift system wouldn't go amiss either. There are times where I feel like ringing up Blizzard and offering to come and push the HotS engine down to the local garage so it can get jump started. 

They have been fairly consistent with improving the game in many other areas, I just hope they have a lot of goals that they are aware of and are pushing to reach for next year. 

Edited by Plergoth
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The reason the reconnect system works as it does is simply because of the hots runs on the SC2 engine, which is designed to have both the client and the server on the same page, and record every single action that happened in game. In SC2, this works fine because you simply cannot continue the game when someone dcs simply because those who have the extra time will win period, as every second is precious, so the game pauses when someone DCs. In Hots however, you can't simply "pause the game" when someone leaves when there are 9 other players in the match, so they had to come up with that backwards reconnect system. 

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6 minutes ago, AnotherRussianGamer said:

The reason the reconnect system works as it does is simply because of the hots runs on the SC2 engine, which is designed to have both the client and the server on the same page, and record every single action that happened in game. In SC2, this works fine because you simply cannot continue the game when someone dcs simply because those who have the extra time will win period, as every second is precious, so the game pauses when someone DCs. In Hots however, you can't simply "pause the game" when someone leaves when there are 9 other players in the match, so they had to come up with that backwards reconnect system. 

I played a bit ignorant there, but I know this is the reason. I need to question *why*, however, we must endure this system. Good insight.

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7 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

I played a bit ignorant there, but I know this is the reason. I need to question *why*, however, we must endure this system. Good insight.

Bad design. As most of us know, Blizzard Dota was originally an SC2 arcade game mode, and as it got bigger they had to make it a standalone title, and were too lazy to develop a new engine, and thought that if Valve can make a moba on a pre-existing engine meant for another genre, why can't we? Unfortunately, unlike Source which Dota 2 was originally built on, the SC2 engine is not versatile at all, and came with more detrimental engine restrictions than Dota 2 originally had, so ultimately, Blizzard needs to do an engine remake.

Edited by AnotherRussianGamer

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This is all well and good - But the Class System only needs one change. And that change requests some hero re-design but that is also something that would fix it up.

Time and again I see morons saying that Heroes needs more sub classes to be more like LoL and Dota. No. Heroes just needs Warrior - Healer - Assassin and Specialist.

Have Warriors be Tanky, there is no need nor any reason for them to be DPS'y like Sonya and Artanis.

Healers should be healers, not "supports" - They should heal and focus on keeping members of their team up, not doing damage.

Assassins can keep on doing what they do now.

Specialists should be better rounded so they all can deal with both structure damage and camps as right now a great deal of Warriors are better for camp clearing than most specialists while some Warriors and Assassins are better IN the lane than specialists (But not necessarily on structure damage)

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How about bad behaviour and people that constantly afk/alt tab mid game ( especially on start but even mid game),those that assist enemy ( garrosh throwing you to your death or saving enemy  for example), etc etc?

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@Oxygen

You are totally on point with this article.

I couldn't agree more - especially with points 2 and 3.
Lack of transparity + reconection issue are so disappointing in this game. Not to mention you are totally punished if you do not manage to reconnect in time - even if it isn't your fault.

I would add 1 other issue that somewhat corresponds to the first issue - current role system is BAD. We get chars like ETC and Zarya in 1 basket called "warriors" when they are so damn different. New players take those chars like Zarya/Sonya/Rexx and don't understand that they are NOT tanks...

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The reconnect system should be devs highest priority since that garbage is there from so long and make you lose games even if you DC for a short period you take much longer to use the hero again even if you are already online.

Also yeah those stupid talents picked by AI are very annoying since they pick always the same thing for example if you DC with tyrande at 9 AI will take starfall no matter what resulting in rage after you reconnect cursing blizzard.

I wish they add to select all talents at lv 1 so when you reach the level it gets autopicked so AI can't take it in your place.

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5 hours ago, Oxygen said:

If Blizzard is bent on keeping its current role system, Quick Match mode simply cannot continue to exist in its current form. The solution is rather simple: Just like the World of Warcraft dungeon system, and, more closely related, League of Legends’ Draft Pick system, players should simply select the role they wish to play before a given match, and not the hero itself. Enforce a basic 1-tank, 1-healer, 3-assassins/specialists rule. If there aren’t enough tank or healer players around to make queue times reasonable, incentivize players to switch to these roles with gold and experience bonuses that scale directly with how many players for roles are necessary to regulate said queue times. This would have the positive side effect of pushing players towards experimenting with new, different roles, potentially increasing hero purchases, and giving players a better understanding of the game as a whole. The same system should certainly be introduced to non-Team-League-Draft modes as well.

This could work, but would completely contradict the concept of Quick Match being a... Well... Quick Match. Where you simply pick a Hero you feel compelled to use.

If anything, I think the system should be a bit more "gentle" in a similar vein to Overwatch, where it displays a warning that there is no "Tank" or "Support". Simply forcing players that they HAVE to follow that Team Composition defeats the purpose of Quick Match.

Don't get me wrong, I hate when I get in 5 Assassin Teams VS Traditional Teams; although the current matchmaking does the best it can to try to queue you with another team filled with the same roles (it's not perfect, however). On the other hand, I have a LOT of fun gathering some buddies and doing stuff like running with 5 Supports.

On the other hand, your points are completely valid. But I think that a solution would be, would be to allow the player to select which roles they want to be filled in the other slots; this would be especially useful when solo queueing.

In my opinion Blizzard should also dissect further the roles, adding in-game the "Bruiser" subrank for Warriors, for example. Adding subranks would be useful to teach players that Heroes in the same class can perform different types of tasks (i.e. Medivh is a Specialist, but he is not made to perform Sieging, or that Tassadar is a Support, but is not suited for solo-healing).

6 hours ago, Oxygen said:
  • I’d like to be able to check out mounts in Try Mode.
  • I wish I could use my Stimpacks whenever I please. As it stands, I don’t open Loot Chests unless I know I’ll be playing for a while, and if I do open a Stimpack by accident, I just ALT+F4 my way out of the game to preserve it.
  • I would love to have an item gifting feature for my teammate’s birthday.
  • I don’t particularly care for the forced MVP cut scene after every single match. I rarely see more than 2 people vote anyway; let’s at least have the option to opt out of it.
  • I’d like to be able to check out anyone’s profile, at any time, if I happen to know their BattleTag.
  • I wish my heroes were available across other regions.
  • Players who opt out of receiving messages from non-friends probably shouldn’t be able to whisper other players.

THIS SO DAMN FUCKING MUCH.

Oxygen, please, send this to Blizzard.

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I feel like the AI talent picking could be fixed if you could save talent paths on your profile. The AI would just continue the path based on what you picked.

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As people said before, all actions will be saved in a log. Its a good design for sc and also ok for hots. The cool thing is, you cant have any server laggs. I know this from Battlefield where you killed someone in your client and you die after him because he killed you in his client too and its all because of the client-server connection. And this is impossible in hots due to the system. But so we have to live with this bad reconnctions system. When you try to reconnect all actions have to readjust to the point where your team is and this takes a little bit of time. So hots need a new engine, when they want to change this reconnect/ replay system. Aslong hots isnt more popular i think they wont change it.

 

I only dont understand why sometimes the reconnect button disapears, that i have to restart the game before i can reconnect.

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19 minutes ago, Xaethron said:

I feel like the AI talent picking could be fixed if you could save talent paths on your profile. The AI would just continue the path based on what you picked.

Or do it the simplest way there is - after you reconnect you can pick again talents that were picked by AI.

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just registered to icy veins only to thank you for this awesome article! some stuff i wasnt even aware about, but while reading i was like "hell, yeeah, that's true and i didn't even know better!"

biiiig thumbs up! hope this gets shared and blizzard somehow recognizes it! and yeah, let's see what blizzcon has in stores for heroes!

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1 hour ago, DeadPixel said:

I know this from Battlefield where you killed someone in your client and you die after him because he killed you in his client too and its all because of the client-server connection.

Keep in mind that Battlefield hosts games for up to 64 players, while HotS is a game for 10 people. Some system just don't scale so well and have to be replaced by a different one that can handle larger amounts of players at once.
Additionally, in the case of Battlefield, you have to consider projectile speed, as there is a chance of both bullets being in the air at the same time, especially for long range combat.

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13 hours ago, Valhalen said:

This could work, but would completely contradict the concept of Quick Match being a... Well... Quick Match. Where you simply pick a Hero you feel compelled to use.

If anything, I think the system should be a bit more "gentle" in a similar vein to Overwatch, where it displays a warning that there is no "Tank" or "Support". Simply forcing players that they HAVE to follow that Team Composition defeats the purpose of Quick Match.

Don't get me wrong, I hate when I get in 5 Assassin Teams VS Traditional Teams; although the current matchmaking does the best it can to try to queue you with another team filled with the same roles (it's not perfect, however). On the other hand, I have a LOT of fun gathering some buddies and doing stuff like running with 5 Supports.

On the other hand, your points are completely valid. But I think that a solution would be, would be to allow the player to select which roles they want to be filled in the other slots; this would be especially useful when solo queueing.

In my opinion Blizzard should also dissect further the roles, adding in-game the "Bruiser" subrank for Warriors, for example. Adding subranks would be useful to teach players that Heroes in the same class can perform different types of tasks (i.e. Medivh is a Specialist, but he is not made to perform Sieging, or that Tassadar is a Support, but is not suited for solo-healing).

THIS SO DAMN FUCKING MUCH.

Oxygen, please, send this to Blizzard.

I think for the MVP thing, they should give rewards at the end of the game or season. For example a mount or a nice chunk of gold

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12 hours ago, DeadPixel said:

As people said before, all actions will be saved in a log. Its a good design for sc and also ok for hots. The cool thing is, you cant have any server laggs. I know this from Battlefield where you killed someone in your client and you die after him because he killed you in his client too and its all because of the client-server connection. And this is impossible in hots due to the system. But so we have to live with this bad reconnctions system. When you try to reconnect all actions have to readjust to the point where your team is and this takes a little bit of time. So hots need a new engine, when they want to change this reconnect/ replay system. Aslong hots isnt more popular i think they wont change it.

 

I only dont understand why sometimes the reconnect button disapears, that i have to restart the game before i can reconnect.

How popular is HotS in comparison to other mobas? I know that LoL is stagnating, and DotA is well DotA

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16 hours ago, AnotherRussianGamer said:

Bad design. As most of us know, Blizzard Dota was originally an SC2 arcade game mode, and as it got bigger they had to make it a standalone title, and were too lazy to develop a new engine, and thought that if Valve can make a moba on a pre-existing engine meant for another genre, why can't we? Unfortunately, unlike Source which Dota 2 was originally built on, the SC2 engine is not versatile at all, and came with more detrimental engine restrictions than Dota 2 originally had, so ultimately, Blizzard needs to do an engine remake.

Is there a way to upgrade the existing engine, so it's as versatile as the source engine? I mean if it can be upgraded without the need for an entirely new engine

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It's been over two years since the release, and Blizzy didn't even try to fix reconnect issue or improve matchmaking.

I had over 2000 matches in the game and finally uninstalled it because I fed up of getting matched with players who have 100-200 games. They have no map awareness, usually ignore objectives and feed instead of getting xp, but are always the first to blame the team.

Moreover, there are many players who don't even try to come back after just one lost team fight or objective.

The game had bad matchmaking and MMR from the start, which led to good players leaving HotS because they don't want to play with idiots. This led to even worse matchmaking and even more players leaving the game.

After all this time and infamous HotS 2.0 patch that added boxes and more skins but completely ignored gameplay issues, I personally don't have any hope for the game.

There's only one thing they ever did right: disabled chat with opposing team.

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15 hours ago, Valhalen said:

THIS SO DAMN FUCKING MUCH.

Oxygen, please, send this to Blizzard.

My hope is that it'll find them organically. 

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1 hour ago, Oxygen said:

My hope is that it'll find them organically. 

Maybe you could post this on the Battle.Net forums too. Although I'm not sure if it is a good idea given how toxic people are there.

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2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Maybe you could post this on the Battle.Net forums too. Although I'm not sure if it is a good idea given how toxic people are there.

Someone did before I could. 

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9 hours ago, Dejo93 said:

Is there a way to upgrade the existing engine, so it's as versatile as the source engine? I mean if it can be upgraded without the need for an entirely new engine

Any time there has been this kind of thing suggested for other games, there has often been hints at the idea that the code just currently doesn't allow it, or that it's old code and so can't be upgraded without being remade.

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      Greetings, Heroes!
      We’re going to host our next AMA on Thursday, July 16, 2020, PDT.
      The following Heroes developers will join the thread and answer your questions starting around 10:00 a.m. PDT (7:00 p.m. CET) until 12:00 p.m. PDT (9:00 p.m. CET).
      Adam Z. Jackson (/u/BlizzAZJackson) Andrew Kinabrew (/u/Blizz_KinaBREW) Brett Crawford (/u/Blizz_Daybringer) David P Warner (/u/Blizz_DWarner) Dorothy Sheng (/u/BlizzDorothy) Joshua Kofalt – (/u/BlizzKofalt) Kaeo Milker (/u/KaeoMilker) Kevin Gu (/u/BlizzKGu) Kyle Dates (/u/BlizzKyle) Sergey Morozov (/u/Blizz_SMorozov) Taylor Hankins (/u/Blizz_Hankins) When posting multiple AMA questions: Please make an effort to post one question per comment. This will make it easier for others to read through the thread, and will help the developers focus on one question at a time. However, please feel free to comment as many times as you'd like in order to get your questions posted.
      You can start posting your questions right now, and we'll see you on Thursday!
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Tier List.
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