Future support design

[Dejo93 984]

I believe that in the future the dev team should start implementing more cc/utility supports. Let me clarify;

For example, they can put someone like Lion, Shadow Priest,Crystal Maiden or Vengeful Spirit from Dota. Or Leona, Morgana, Braum, Zyra and Tahm Kench. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy the support designs so far (Auriel plays differently from someone like  Rehgar or Uther), but I think that is a flaw in the support classification. Zarya and Medivh can very well fit these roles.

Maybe they can apply the Multiclass system on them and have them be a powerful. but squishy nuker (Lion or Lina) or have an aura with mana regen/attack damage or mass teleport. or just have insane CC (Fiddlesticks, Anivia) 

What do you guys think? I'm looking forward to this discussion :)

[Valks 2,373]

25 minutes ago, Dejo93 said:

What do you guys think? I'm looking forward to this discussion :)

I think that, whenever this discussion does come up, there's always a major in flaw in it for HoTS - the lack of items. 

Let's take Lion as an example - the reason he is so unique is that he builds essentially as a nuker, with his ult reduction on Aghanim's + Dagon, he can one-shot a fair percentage of the roster. If he's built purely as a support, he is basically the same hero that Tyrande can become with Owl stacks. Has a CC and a nuke, in the form of ult/owl.

The same goes for Veng Spirit, who really only shines as something interesting/special when she builds as an AD support, dealing damage through auto-attack buffing items. Otherwise, she becomes a pretty standard debuff support. 

I think that without items, you are essentially stuck with a very linear style of design. It seems like Blizzard is going this way anyway, but quest talents are basically items. You farm a certain number of hits, creeps, kills, whatever, and you eventually get a big increase in some part of your gameplay. 

I think we're just going to see more and more quest talents added at level 1, until they end up basically just being the same thing as choosing to farm one of three items.

[Dejo93 984]

7 minutes ago, Blainie said:

I think that, whenever this discussion does come up, there's always a major in flaw in it for HoTS - the lack of items. 

Let's take Lion as an example - the reason he is so unique is that he builds essentially as a nuker, with his ult reduction on Aghanim's + Dagon, he can one-shot a fair percentage of the roster. If he's built purely as a support, he is basically the same hero that Tyrande can become with Owl stacks. Has a CC and a nuke, in the form of ult/owl.

The same goes for Veng Spirit, who really only shines as something interesting/special when she builds as an AD support, dealing damage through auto-attack buffing items. Otherwise, she becomes a pretty standard debuff support. 

I think that without items, you are essentially stuck with a very linear style of design. It seems like Blizzard is going this way anyway, but quest talents are basically items. You farm a certain number of hits, creeps, kills, whatever, and you eventually get a big increase in some part of your gameplay. 

I think we're just going to see more and more quest talents added at level 1, until they end up basically just being the same thing as choosing to farm one of three items.

Aren't talents in a way items? For example Xul's bone spear. Even the lvl 20 talents can be considered Aghanim upgrade :D

[Valks 2,373]

On 10/27/2017 at 2:49 PM, Dejo93 said:

Aren't talents in a way items? For example Xul's bone spear. Even the lvl 20 talents can be considered Aghanim upgrade :D

They are kinda, yeah, but they lack the progression element somewhat, which is what quest talents bring. People really seem to hate them though. Not sure why, at all.

[Fliits 112]

On 29.10.2017 at 7:02 PM, Blainie said:

They are kinda, yeah, but they lack the progression element somewhat, which is what quest talents bring. People really seem to hate them though. Not sure why, at all.

Quest talents offer the sort of reward not seen on other talents, as completing the quest usually gives out a much greater prize than just picking an instant buff in the form of a talent. This also incentivises completing the quest to get the bonus, since the players who didn't pick a quest are in a clear immediate advantage before you complete the quest. The thing is, quests aren't bad, but they can be overpowered and/or boring to complete.

Take Convection for example. Some players may find it really fun to just poke people for the first 5 minutes of the game and not really going into team fights in the fear of dying and losing all the effort you've put in the quest. There are numerous examples of these types of quests, where completing the quest is essential, but in the end is so distracting of the real experience playing as the character that you'd much rather pick another talent so you don't have to spend the rest of the game trying to rack up a quest and then dying to A GODDAMN ZERATUL THAT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE AND I WAS 19/20 DONE WITH THE QUEST OH MY FUCKING GOD WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE THIS?! 

This is also why people don't like baseline quests. Some quest talents are almost mandatory to pick for the amazing power they grant when completed, for example The Master's Touch. People just don't like being told to do something that they don't want to.

[Valhalen 1,484]

On 11/1/2017 at 5:48 AM, Fliits said:

A GODDAMN ZERATUL THAT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE AND I WAS 19/20 DONE WITH THE QUEST OH MY FUCKING GOD WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE THIS?! 

Quest talents that are lost upon death are terrifying and should be removed, much like those annoying Health Globe quests.

[mada7 29]

On 11/9/2017 at 10:44 AM, Valhalen said:

Quest talents that are lost upon death are terrifying and should be removed, much like those annoying Health Globe quests.

I disagree. There should be high risk high reward quests that can be disrupted. You cant have things like convection or butcher if you can't disrupt the progress of those as they give such big power boosts

[Valhalen 1,484]

8 hours ago, mada7 said:

I disagree. There should be high risk high reward quests that can be disrupted. You cant have things like convection or butcher if you can't disrupt the progress of those as they give such big power boosts

I can agree with The Butcher only because you don't lose all his stacks anymore. Before the rework playing as The Butcher was awful.