Jump to content
FORUMS
Starym

Tier Sets Removed in Battle for Azeroth

Recommended Posts

UXEy96M.jpg
 

It seems the WoW devs have learned a lesson the Diablo 3 team could very much use as well, as tier sets probably won't be coming back come Battle for Azeroth.

In an interview with Game Director Ion Hazzikostas, Gameinformer found out that there are no current plans to bring back raid tier sets in the next expansion, as they limit character customization by locking down their individual gear slots, due to the power of set bonuses:

Quote

"With sets and cosmetic appearances we're always trying new things. We're currently not planning on carrying forward traditional raid class sets.

So we're going to have artwise, the gear will be more heavily themed from the place it comes. There's more customization we want to express through the new Azerite system. I think class sets have changed a lot over a years of World of Warcraft. Back in the day, these 8 piece sets you would put together over the course of 6 to 8 months raiding a zone, where now the smaller sets and so many more sources of gear, it's very common to get 2 or 4 pieces at the start of a tier and it actually kind of locks down those character slots, it limits your choices. It feels like more of a drawback than a strength at this point."

- Ion Hazzikostas, Game Director

Check out the full article over on Gameinformer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't really compare it to Diablo though. For WoW, tier bonuses are a transient item - In one tier, out the next.

In Diablo, the tier bonus is what defines specific playstyles, for the entirety of the game. While lowing the amount of set pieces needed for the bonus to 3/5 (With RoRG lowering that further still to 2/4) would be fantastic, removing set bonuses entirely would create hellava more problems.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Completely okay with this. I enjoy doing M+ and I'm disappointed every week because I have to bench 950+ chest rewards for 915-930 tier pieces because the 4pc comes out stronger. With legendaries taking up major slots as well, there is just very little room to slot in different items.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Frogspoison said:

You can't really compare it to Diablo though. For WoW, tier bonuses are a transient item - In one tier, out the next.

In Diablo, the tier bonus is what defines specific playstyles, for the entirety of the game. While lowing the amount of set pieces needed for the bonus to 3/5 (With RoRG lowering that further still to 2/4) would be fantastic, removing set bonuses entirely would create hellava more problems.

Oh you're absolutely right, I was just referring to the fact that the removal of sets would be very beneficial for Diablo. Can't really say it's the same thing as WoW obv, but for D3 I guarantee it'd be a better game without them. It's not really a matter of actual number of items needed for the bonus, basically they simply shouldn't be tied to actual items ever for D3, as they simply limit item choice and are a must have always. Also don't even get me started with the whole balancing the entire game through these 6 items only and subsequantly having to 10x other legendaries to make up for it etc etc. But hey, this aint a D3 post so I'll just stop rambling :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Starym said:

Oh you're absolutely right, I was just referring to the fact that the removal of sets would be very beneficial for Diablo. Can't really say it's the same thing as WoW obv, but for D3 I guarantee it'd be a better game without them. It's not really a matter of actual number of items needed for the bonus, basically they simply shouldn't be tied to actual items ever for D3, as they simply limit item choice and are a must have always. Also don't even get me started with the whole balancing the entire game through these 6 items only and subsequantly having to 10x other legendaries to make up for it etc etc. But hey, this aint a D3 post :D

Diablo 3 sets definitely limits gameplay and unique builds, rendering half of the skills useless. For example, I absolutely love Witch Doctor's Corpse Spiders. But there isn't a single viable build that uses this skill because of the set bonuses.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

Diablo 3 sets definitely limits gameplay and unique builds, rendering half of the skills useless. For example, I absolutely love Witch Doctor's Corpse Spiders. But there isn't a single viable build that uses this skill because of the set bonuses.

Arachyr's AND Helltooth both support Corpse Spiders.

There are only a handful of skills that are NOT supported by some set or another for ANY class. The main issue is the lack of legendary support for a particular skill OUTSIDE of that set. Corpse Spider has 4 direct supporting legendaries - Depth Diggers, a 100% damage increase (Must be cubed), The Spider's Queen Grasp, a 60% increase+80% slow (Does not need to be cubed), Mask of Jeram, which DOES increase its damage by 200% (Must be cubed), and Tasker and Theo, +50% damage to the spiders (Must be cubed). There are also other, all-purpose supporting legendaries, but those benefit ALL WD skills, rather then just Corpse Spiders.

It mainly comes down to numbers. Why use Corpse Spiders with either set, when, in BOTH cases, you get MANY supporting legendaries for Firebat- 25% alldamage/damage reduction via the channel shoulders, 300% increased damage via belt, an additional 300% increase damage via staff, AND 30% damage reduction/massive healing via bracers? Not to mention that you don't need a primary for this build, period, so you could grab any of the multiple utility skills for the WD. Still, it doesn't mean that there is NO corpse spider build - It just means that you'll be 5-10 GRs below in progression in comparision to, say, Firebats.

(Witch Doctor actually has pretty good skill diversity. They only have 2 skills unsupported by a set - Spirit Barrage, and Sacrifice. Sacrifice hits like a truck naturally, so the supporting mojo/pants when combined with an LoN build and other supporting legendaries for Insect Swarm and Zombie Dogs is pretty damn good, and Spirit Barrage was THE build last season. In comparision to Crusader. Fist of the Heavens is LoN or Akkhans-only, and isn't really good. Hell, Crusader doesn't even HAVE a solid build for Smite, Justice, Fist of the Heaven, Phalax, Heaven's Fury, or Bombardment thats preforming atm since the HUGE buffs to all the other builds - Forget 10 GR lvls, most of those builds will be 20-25 GRs behind the other Crusader builds). And don't get me started on Demon Hunters!

 

Sets are essentially an easy tuning knob for Blizzard. If a set is outpreforming or underpreforming, just tone down/buff up the set bonus. Nowhere near compared to the potential nightmare that is LoN - For Bombardment LoN, if it was greatly outpreforming, what would you nerf? Bombardment? You just nerfed potential Akkhans/Invoker builds. LoN? You just nerfed every LoN build in the game. Thorns? Again, you just nerfed Invokers/Akkhans. Its best to buff everything up, see where the numbers are and then buff LoN respective to that - But again, you might have overlooked a certain LoN combination that with the buff, is suddenly 10 GRs above everything else.

 

Issues with Set pieces limiting your choices can be fixed pretty easy. Making RROG baseline, for instance, would benefit ALL classes in terms of both Sages farming and utility/damage, but wouldn't allow for any game-breaking set piece combinations, like what we saw with Demon Hunter a few patches back and their Shadow/Marauder combination (For some reason, combining set bonuses from 2 different 6 piece sets is bad, whereas using a 7/8 piece set with a seperate 2 piece bonus is A-OK, odd).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very thankful for this. It felt dumb that they would be pushing mythic + so much and then have these sets that make dungeon runners need to raid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the gear lock thought but honestly i like the flavor of tier sets, so if they are implemented in some other way that would be perfect for me. Although it does make gearing easy i think it also makes it boring because, without sets, stat prio will be more static through the course of the expansion so its one less thing to work for and eventually less interest to play more. It could be overshadowed by something else but idk what yet :)  So i'm not happy nor sad about it, just fingers crossed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone who hates raiding but loves Mythic+, I'm going to enjoy being able to play Mythic+ without the sinking feeling in the back of my head that I could be a lot stronger if I got the tier pieces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a great plan were it not for the fact that currently azerite upgrades are locked into individual pieces.

 

So if you replace that piece, you'll have to upgrade the new piece. Basically just pretending the problem is fixed.

 

Am I understanding this entirely wrongly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. I'm really curious about what they will do in terms of itemization. What's the incentive to run raids when there are no sets?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Stan said:

Interesting. I'm really curious about what they will do in terms of itemization. What's the incentive to run raids when there are no sets?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they will follow a Diablo 3 path where some items have extra individual bonuses like trinkets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Stan said:

Interesting. I'm really curious about what they will do in terms of itemization. What's the incentive to run raids when there are no sets?

This is actually the point I was going to make and something i've been pondering since I read this article. Much of wow's endgame is chasing higher numbers, getting the better gear, getting all dem fat loots. One of the biggest parts of this was set bonuses. The set bonuses were so powerful (most of the time....some of the time) it made you want to run the raids to get them. Without the tier sets running raids seems a bit pointless to me. If we are just after highest gear level now mythic+ is so much easier. Especially on smaller servers you only have so many people running it and its incredibly easy to find 4 other people to do it with, much more flexible then raiding.

yes raiding may have really good trinkets or high powered items, and a mount, but the set bonuses were a really big piece to me. Yes there is the story but most raids really only have 1-2 story relevant bosses, the rest are just kinda there as filler. So, watch the cinematic on youtube and tada now we don't need raiding at all.

So, this really bolsters the mythic plus community i think, but feels like a giant middle finger to raiding. 

also on the diablo note i would be fine if they got rid of sets and just gave us like 1000 new legendaries. part of the fun is some diablo legendaries do crazy stuff and it was always fun finding the next new things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm more and more disappointed about upcoming expansion. He speak about gear customization after they removed all weapons(!!!) for an entire expansion, I really can't to follow this thought thread, and really don't want such changes like this.
 

Edited by Hypersonic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, it's a bad idea. Sets have been a staple in wow. OK I don't like the situation in Legion, where for example the Nighthold 2-set for Frost Mage (and some other classes) is still relevant even at 890 item level. On the other hand, some specs have really BAD tier sets, where it's not worth wearing all 4 of the items (Arcane Mage, Balance Druid, Resto Druid). But to completely scrap raid sets feels like a giant middle finger to raiders, as was already said.

On the other hand, it does make running M+ worthwhile. Currently, apart from prestige or just enjoying this kind of content, there's no gain from running M+. Few classes have some BiS trinkets in dungeons (like that VotW one for Pallies), but other than that the only acceptable loot you can get in there is relics (they are presumably getting scrapped in the next expansion), belts, boots, rings and necks. M+ has proven to be extremely successful and popular, see for example the unseen for WoW viewership of the M+ invitational.

So how do you distribute fairly loot in raids and m+?

I think the whole issue starts with warforging and titanforging. It's what makes older raid sets still relevant when they shouldn't be. It's what makes it possible for a casual player, a M+ player, a hardcore raider and an all-around player to all have the same item level or have some crazy differences between them. And as it was stated in BlizzCon, even though it's becoming less random (whatever that means), warforging will stay in BfA.

Raid sets at least offer a stability. You know that you have some gear slots covered. because the current tier set is always BiS. Now the hunt for items, good RNG and titanforging is going to be even greater than it already is (and trust me, in Legion it's already pretty hectic). You have to run m+ AND raids if you want to be BiS, whereas currently at least you can choose somewhat.

TL;DR: Removing raid sets just promotes further randomness and more grinding for players who want to have BiS gear, since most tier sets at least offer you the possibility of being BiS in the current raiding tier. Gear hunting will therefore get more hectic than it already is. Lastly, as Stan said, the question is raised as to what's the point of raiding.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Yridaa said:

Sounds like a great plan were it not for the fact that currently azerite upgrades are locked into individual pieces.

 

So if you replace that piece, you'll have to upgrade the new piece. Basically just pretending the problem is fixed.

 

Am I understanding this entirely wrongly?

Yes, when you get a different upgrade it is implyed they have different traits to select from so you will have to select them again, BUT you do not have to upgrade it again, they will already be unlocked based on your heart of azeroth level which won't be replaced during BfA

 

so if you have the max level heart of azeroth you will have the traits unlocked for the azeroth gear and when you get a new item you just have to select them not unlock them

 

now weather you have to go to some altar or something to select the traits I have no idea I sure hope not because it defeats the whole purpose of auto unlocking the talents if your Heart of Azeroth is high enough

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO the "what's the point of raiding" is more of a game design philosophy question than a practical one. Basically as it is right now raiding is heavily incentivized as it grants you the best gear in the game. But in an ideal game there shouldn't be specific incentives to do activities you don't want to - everything should have the same level of reward (which doesn't mean all rewards should be the same, power level isn't the same as same stats/effects etc). Basically if they only reason people are doing raids is cos they have to to get the best items then raids are not good content, forcing your playerbase to do something they don't really want to do isn't a great idea.

The more variety there is in content the better a game is, but ofc it's not always that simple as usually when game devs do this kind of thing it massively lessens the uniqueness of rewards and makes everything the same and boring.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and just to make my point clearer, I'm not talking about difficulty at all, the best gear should come from the hardest content, it's just that that content should be varied as much as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all the opposite, Ion was very clear that raid loot would have extra slots that regular gear wouldn't, hence tier bonuses, will probably be named differently thou.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      From the "this took a whole lot of time and effort to make" files, here comes Light's Champions 2, a movie length WoW machinima featuring the fight against the Burning Legion. While it does have a 2 in the title, you don't need to have watched the first one, as it's a standalone story with characters from the original. Cstyle12 took two years on this project and it shows, with custom animations for all the characters using Cinema4D, After Effects and Premiere Pro.
      Here's the trailer in case you're not prepared (© Illidan, 2007) to go straight into the almost 1 and a half hour long movie:
      And here's the actual machinima itself:
      While reddit is busy with the tragedy that is the video's duration (only 3 seconds away from being 1H23min45Secs, aka 12345), you can also check out the first Light's Champions machinima:
      In any case, huge congratulations to Cstyle on seeing this thing through and all the dedication and effort put into it, it really shows what someone can do with enough passion for a project. We really need more like you in the WoW community!
      Source: r/wow.
    • By Starym
      It seems we're getting a whole lot of Alterac Valley soon, as Classic is getting the 1.12 version in one of the latter content releases and we're getting the special 15th Anniversary edition on live servers in Patch 8.2.5 during the event! Today at midnight CEST there's another Play with the Blues event on the 8.2.5 PTR gathering all Valley enthusiasts and all you have to do is hop on to the PTR and use the Group Finder to jump in!

      You can get the high-rez versions of the two original mounts from the event, which you can check out here as well.
      Play with the Blues (source)
      Tomorrow 12:00 AM CEST, please join us on the 8.2.5 PTR for an old school Alterac Valley Play with the Blues.
      Starting promptly at 3:00 p.m. PDT, Blizzard employees will be testing our 15th Anniversary rendition of AV on the PTR, and you can join us for some strife in the Field of Strife.
      Please log into the PTR by that time and then open your Group Finder (default hotkey: i) and switch to the Player vs. Player tab. You’ll see Alterac Valley waiting for you to join.
      Afterward, please return to this thread with your feedback.
      Thank you!
    • By Stan
      The news image above is fan art created by Dogslug. You can find more of his work here.
      Blizzard mentioned multiple times that they would add Allied Races whenever they fit the story. The Horde's hottest candidates are currently the Vulpera of Vol'dun, even though their story doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now. Recent rumors suggest that Gilgoblins could be in the final pair of Horde Allied Races too.
      The Vulpera currently have too many unique animations, and they are a community-favorite. Pretty much every Horde player wants them to become playable. They're coming, and it's just a matter of when. We think the first set of Allied Races will be introduced in Patch 8.2.5 with the second one coming in Patch 8.3.5. Based on datamining, the Vulpera should be live on or before September 20th. You can find all their customization options here.

      On the other side of the spectrum, the Alliance will get Mechagnomes led by Prince Erazmin of Mechagon, but it's still not clear what the second race will be.

      Lightforged Forsaken led by Calia Menethil are a possibility based on the Before the Storm novel and Calia also received a new model in the initial Patch 8.2.5 build.
      Next up are Gilgoblins! We encounter them in zones like Vashj'ir and Nazjatar in Patch 8.2. They are a species of aquatic goblins created by Hobart Grapplehammer. Gilgoblins are very similar to traditional Goblins. They have various tattoos and fins on their arms to help them swim.

      Gilgoblins are currently not included in the game files as playable races as opposed to Mechagnomes and the Vulpera. They only exist as creatures.

      The female model has more customization options compared to the male model. Would you like to see them become playable in the future?

      We know that Blizzard wants to add more customization options to World of Warcraft, and a recent leak suggests that all Allied Races will become customization options in Patch 9.0 except for the Nightborne and the Vulpera. Let's see what the first set of Allied Races is going to be now that Patch 8.2 should hit Public Test Realms reasonably soon!
      TL;DR
      The first set of Allied Races (Mechagnomes/Vulpera) coming in Patch 8.2.5 on or before September 20th. The final set of Allied Races will include Gilgoblins and Lightforged Forsaken (based on the Before the Storm novel) in Patch 8.3.5. We know that Mechagnomes and the Vulpera are coming, but what about the second set of Allied Races?
    • By Stan
      We're one week away from WoW Classic launch. This week, you can get a piece of Heroic Palace armor from the weekly quest.
      Highlights
      Artifact Knowledge will continue to increase until October 1. Queen Azshara nerfs are now live ahead of Classic launch. The Classic development team conducted a Reddit AMA and shared more details about the intended player cap for dungeons and cleared some layering misconceptions. Read our recap of the AMA for a full summary of highlights! Mythic Keystone Affixes
      Fortified Sanguine Quaking Beguiling Weekly Quests
      Collect 36,000 Azerite from Island Expeditions for Azerite for the Alliance & Azerite for the Horde to receive 3,500 Azerite and 1,500 reputation with Honorbound/7th Legion. Complete 4 Mythic BfA Dungeons for Emissary of War to receive a cache which contains a piece of Heroic Eternal Palace gear. Nazjatar World Boss
      Players can kill Wekemara this week for ilvl 415 loot.
      Tidal Lurker's Greathelm Naga Ritualist's Mantle Spitcharged Shoulderguards Chestguard of the Submerged Belt of Rising Guardians Deepcaller's Clasp Serpentskin Splashers Wekemara's Warboots Shockbiter's Fang World Events
      Battle for Azeroth Dungeon Event (August 20th - August 27th)
      Blizzard (Source)
      The Battle for Azeroth Dungeons Bonus Event is underway!
      THIS WEEK
      All week, open Group Finder (default hotkey: I) to queue for any Battle for Azeroth dungeon on Normal or Heroic difficulty.
      Alternatively, get a group of veteran dungeoneers together and travel to one of the Battle for Azeroth dungeons on Mythic difficulty:
      Atal’Dazar Temple of Sethraliss The Underrot The MOTHERLODE!! Freehold Shrine of the Storm Tol Dagor Waycrest Manor Look for the following all week long:
      Chronicler Shoopa in Zuldazar or Chronicler Toopa in Boralus has a quest for you – Emissary of War. Or, if you forget to pick it up there, you can start it within the Adventure Journal. Quest requirement: Complete 4 Battle for Azeroth dungeons on Mythic difficulty. Rewards: One loot box containing a piece of gear from Heroic difficulty The Eternal Palace. Passive bonus: The final boss in each dungeon drop additional loot on all difficulties (except Mythic Keystone difficulties.) EVERY WEEK
      The Bonus Events system consists of a rotating schedule of different activities, currently scheduled to run each week beginning on Tuesdays. Each Bonus Event grants a passive bonus to a particular game activity and offers a once-per-event quest with a noteworthy reward for accomplishing a related goal. The in-game calendar can serve as your one-stop reference for the event schedule. The Adventure Guide also offers a direct link to active Bonus Events, allowing you to easily accept any associated quests.
      PvP Brawl: Arathi Blizzard (August 20th -  August 27th)
      Blizzard (Source)

      Frozen Arathi Basin (Resource Race)
      Put away your bathing suit, pull out your parka, and enter a winter wonderland as the Arathi Basin you know and love gets a fresh coat of ice and snow. You'll be racing your way between the farm, stables, mine, lumberyard, and blacksmith through piles of snow and over a - mostly - frozen lake. One more thing: the weather forecast calls for a bit of fog of war. We hope you're prepared for the weather.
    • By Stan
      Today's hotfixes come with a lot of nerfs to Queen Azshara. Vitality Conduit now correctly transfers health from a target with absorb shields, and more.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Dungeons and Raids
      Azshara’s Eternal Palace Queen Azshara When either Aethenel or Cyranus is slain on Normal, Heroic, or Mythic difficulty, there is now a 3-second delay before the other one gains the Torment buff. Azshara's Indomitable is now summoned 10 seconds later than previously observed on Mythic difficulty. Tidemistresses have 5% less health on Mythic difficulty. Fixed an issue where casting either Moonfire or Regrowth twice in a row while affected by Repeat Performance was not triggering the silence. Fixed a bug on Mythic difficulty where the damage effect from Deferred Sentence could trigger the healing reduction from Obey or Suffer right as the decrees transitioned between each other. Siege of Boralus  Corrected an issue where players’ pets were unable to attack the tentacles during the Viq’Goth encounter. Items
      Heart of Azeroth Vitality Conduit (Essence) correctly transfers health from a target with absorb shields on them. Learning new ranks of Conflict and Strife (Essence) should now properly grant achievements such as Power Up.
×
×
  • Create New...