Lookingfrwrk

958 Ret Pally - Improve DPS - ABT

10 posts in this topic

Hello, first time poster. I have read many of the threads here regarding Ret dps and most of them seem to be specific to the poster's gear or situation so I'm hoping to get some help with my gear and rotation specifically. I started using Hekili 2 weeks ago and have seen a massive improvement in my DPS. I have gone from almost all gray and green parses to mostly blue with a couple green parses, but I would like to get to purple (80%+). I don't really care about multi target DPS sims as I will always do better on those fights due to Divine Storm spams. Also looking for a little clarification on stat weights. There's definitely a couple items that could be replaced - 4 months of killing Varimathras every week and he refuses to drop Seeping Scourgewing but I got lucky a couple weeks ago and got Aman'Thul's (the dream trinket). Also need the BiS leggo cloak but I keep getting all the other leggos so I'm hoping eventually I will get it.

Currently sitting at 26% Crit - 26% - Haste - 61% Mastery - 18% Versatility

Stat weights: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jSqu4orZZWC4cMnLteGYx9

Single Target Sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wEaDtJGJAKnanpn9Eogy6L

Currently mastery and versatility are my highest weight. So if I change my enchants or gems for more mastery/vers instead of haste, then haste becomes my highest weight, so what is the point of looking at this? What percentages would be ideal?

Today's Normal ABT log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gjbRr3PcMdX1Va26/

Today's Heroic ABT log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fwC3ATFPQyZdKz7G/

I am really taking hits on movement fights. What can I do to improve my DPS on heavy mechanic and movement fights like Coven, Imonar, and Garothi? Typically I get hit with a lot decimates and sleep so I have to constantly run in and out which is why I use Crusade for 2 charges. Sometimes I get lucky and don't have to deal with it very much.

I mostly play ranged casters but am having difficulty performing well for my ilvl on those toons too. My 948 enhancement shaman typically pulls 1.5M-1.7M ST which is generally what my pally pulls. So I think I'm just having a hard time with certain classes.

Thank you.

(I did not include link to armory because armory stats are not updated to what they actually are on mine or any other character that I look up.)

Edited by Lookingfrwrk
adding a note

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Regarding your stats, it's because stat weights change constantly depending on your other stats. The reason you'll see a rise in vers/mastery is because you have 26% haste. Anything lower makes haste more important. Why? I like to call it a ''soft''cap. I face the same thing. I need a minimum of 26% haste for optimal dps with high mastery/vers. 

On to the next thing. 958 itemlevel is very low. Most people who have 85%+ logs, like myself, are 970-975+ itemlevel by now. The raid is already there for roughly 12 weeks, out of the top of my head. For a lot of parses people would have died, especially early on, which increases your dps furthermore. Especially in normal and heroic you'll rarely see people dying now which hurts your chances on a good parse, unless you ask someone specifically to take a hit for you when your wings are up. ;) 

Now I do see you own Aman'thuls, which is the best trinket there is right now for us. (F* you!) However, your other trinket is strictly for AoE and hurts your single target potentional. I suggest for you to go for Seeping Scourgewing from Varimathras. Even a raid finder one would probably be optimal for you right now. An arcano crystal will work too- - I see you in protection spec on the armory currently with Aman'thuls and a 950 Seeping Scourgewing, so I am confused why all your logs show you using Forgefiend's Fabricator. Your 950 Seeping Scourgewing would be the best trinket to use on most fights with Eonar and High Command being the exception. Recently got it? After your last logs? Anyway, use it! 

Further, I see you use the legendary belt. The cloak is better hands down. Also on raider.io I see you currently have 74 traits, you'll see an increase with 75 given your third relic has good rolls in the Crucible on the third row. 

Hekili is fine to improve your rotation with, as it uses the SimCraft scripts to suggest to you the optimal next ability to use so good start there.

tl;dr:

-Use your 950 Seeping Scourgewing on single target fights instead of Forgefiend's Fabricator (pretty much all except Eonar and High Command it should be the best to use). 
- Use the legendary cloak instead of the belt asap.
- Simply increase your itemlevel to be able to compete with the top parsers.
- Get 75 traits as the third relic's third trait can be a big dps increase given you got lucky crucible rng. 

- Your stats & using Hekili is fine. Keep that up.

 

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Regarding the heavy mechanics part, well that's just how it is, you can't do anything about it if you get targeted except making sure your allies aren't hit unnecessarily. IMO if you can get within 200k of your sim dps while doing all the mechanics then you're doing good, if not then strive to reach it.
The part about your ilvl being low is right but try and compare within the ilvl bracket, you should at least get blue parses, though I don't know enough about paladins to tell you more than that. Just saying, but as a 961 equipped dh, I'm averaging 81% overall parses on heroic with a casual guild, so you can definitely climb once you get more used to your class even without much gear :p
Last bit about mechanics would be, sometimes you can play around it and still hit, like with Garothi, you don't have to leave melee range to place your explosion, the hitbox is huge and you can just run to 1 side to drop it safely while still hitting. For the sleep on Imonar, well just hope it's not on you and try to get the healers to dispel you as soon as it's safe. For Coven you'll have to hope you can get to the same safe area as the boss.

One specific advice I can think of ( can't check since I suck with those logs :| ), try to save your spenders for when judgment is up on the target, especially since mastery is of high value with t21.

And also, enhancement shaman is right now regarded as among the best dps class period, while retribution is pretty average, so there's a bit of that too.

PS : About the stat weights, don't forget to compare your gear sets to see how much dps you'd get with each. Reaching breakpoints and such can give you a pretty big dps increase, however that doesn't show you exactly where you should stop focusing on that stat. Ideally you should sim every piece against every other though that's time consuming and stat weights are faster to use, just try to know where your breakpoints are ( for example with haste, where you'd get 1 more cast within your burst window ).

Edited by Ninhursag

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@Shishikyu Thanks for the input! I was unaware 26% was the softcap for Haste. Yes I finally got a 950 seeping from heroic after I had made this post :-) Armory shows prot with seeping because I was doing the Mage Tower challenge and actually completed in about 15 tries :-) I don't know how long it takes to update but it should've already changed back to my ret gear - again I don't like armory because it never shows correct stats for myself or any guildies. Just got trait 76 today on my artifact so that should help. I've been trying to get the cloak but it keeps giving me mythic+ legendaries :-/ I'm currently at 961 now and I believe I actually hit a 75-80% parse on high command last weekend :) All in all, thanks!

@Ninhursag Currently I'm simming about 1.75M ST and I average 1.53M ST so I'm still a tad behind, but I've gotten a lot better considering a few weeks ago I was barely doing 1.1-1.2M at like 958. I definitely hit 1.7M on Vari because it's just tank and spank :-) All AoE fights I do above 2M now. I've been using RaidBots Top Tier Sim, clicking all pieces of gear over a few dif sims because I run out of iterations, and it says everything I have equipped is the best I have.. But.. when I import the stat weights from RB into Pawn, it shows those items that aren't "top gear" as being an upgrade - +5% +17% etc. So I don't know if I should be trusting RB or Pawn in that situation? That issue is for all of my toons. I simmed 28 extra pieces through top gear on my mage last night, and then reran the stat weights, but it still said what I had equipped was better, even though the updated stat string said bag items were upgrades. :-/

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@Lookingfrwrk

You have to remember pawn only says if that one item in the bag is better than the one equipped, and not if it is better overall in combination with everything else you have on, so if you are simming higher with an item pawn says actually is worse than one of the items you have in your bag, keep the one you are simming highest with. :)

 

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Yes indeed, the stat weights tell you how much dps 1 point of a stat would give you, but it doesn't take into account the stats you'd lose which makes the value change. It's a pretty rough estimation but still useful.

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@Deasto 

Yeah I think I'm just going to ignore Pawn for the most part with the exception of items that have the exact same stats. Doesn't seem accurate on any sims :-/

@Ninjursag

Gotcha, thanks

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5 hours ago, Lookingfrwrk said:

Yeah I think I'm just going to ignore Pawn for the most part with the exception of items that have the exact same stats. Doesn't seem accurate on any sims :-/

The thing to keep in mind is that Pawn and stat weights work on a completely static basis. To go a little further on this:

When you find a stat weight, it will tell you that, for example, adding 1 point of Critical Strike (at that exact moment in time) will give you 30 DPS. Now, the problem is, when you change a piece of gear, you aren't adding 1 point of Critical Strike. You are instead adding 800 points of Critical Strike. Although the entire stat change happens when you equip the piece of gear, your stat weight doesn't change in one go. The problem is, weights and Pawn don't take that into account. They think that Critical Strike is always worth 30 DPS per point until you tell it otherwise.

In reality, Critical Strike might add 30 DPS per point for 10 points of the stat and then drop to 29.8 DPS. By the time we're at adding 800 Crit, you're looking at the weight possibly being as low as 27 DPS per point. That's a pretty drastic change that is completely ignore by weights and Pawn. As recommended above, use gear comparison sims.

This is also the reason why people sometimes get stuck in a loop with Pawn of two pieces of gear always being better than each other, regardless of which one you equip. You equip one that Pawn says is better, sim again for stat weights, input them, suddenly the old item is better and so on.

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9 hours ago, Blainie said:

The thing to keep in mind is that Pawn and stat weights work on a completely static basis. To go a little further on this:

When you find a stat weight, it will tell you that, for example, adding 1 point of Critical Strike (at that exact moment in time) will give you 30 DPS. Now, the problem is, when you change a piece of gear, you aren't adding 1 point of Critical Strike. You are instead adding 800 points of Critical Strike. Although the entire stat change happens when you equip the piece of gear, your stat weight doesn't change in one go. The problem is, weights and Pawn don't take that into account. They think that Critical Strike is always worth 30 DPS per point until you tell it otherwise.

In reality, Critical Strike might add 30 DPS per point for 10 points of the stat and then drop to 29.8 DPS. By the time we're at adding 800 Crit, you're looking at the weight possibly being as low as 27 DPS per point. That's a pretty drastic change that is completely ignore by weights and Pawn. As recommended above, use gear comparison sims.

This is also the reason why people sometimes get stuck in a loop with Pawn of two pieces of gear always being better than each other, regardless of which one you equip. You equip one that Pawn says is better, sim again for stat weights, input them, suddenly the old item is better and so on.

Yeah I've been severely having this issue on all 8 of my lvl 110s. Even after updating the pawn strings, so I'm just gonna stick to "Top Gear" and "Quick Sim" on Raidbots. Thanks

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On 3/7/2018 at 8:19 PM, Lookingfrwrk said:

Yeah I've been severely having this issue on all 8 of my lvl 110s. Even after updating the pawn strings, so I'm just gonna stick to "Top Gear" and "Quick Sim" on Raidbots. Thanks

Happy to help! Legion really is the "sim yourself" expansion for gear, unfortunately.

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