Jump to content
FORUMS
Starym

Christie Golden Didn't Write Warbringers

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, verthus said:

her going there was to save her people.

Yes, that's exactly what she did. She also murdered civilians during battle for Andorhal and tortured Koltira Deathweaver because he didn't want to kill his friend on opposing side. All that to save her people. She saved samples of new plague of undeath made by Arthas's accomplices as weapon against Southshore murdering everyone there. Her ultimate goal is to make everyone in the Eastern Kingdoms her undead servant. Then, i guess, her people will be saved. Her logic is similar to the Lich King one, but she does not serve Sargaeras. Ultimately she fights against life, because of her sufferning in before. That's exactly what Delarin Summermoon tells Sylvanas in the movie. And that's exactlty what she do not want to be reminded.

She is totally in character here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Dravixus said:

This mirrors my concerns as well. On the surface, the Horde is not looking so hot right now.

maybe, but the Night Elf are.... ?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed the cinematic, it doesn't really break with Sylvanas as a character and the Horde generally is quite evil. I am very tired of all the Horde apologists trying to force a narrative in which the faction of people they like to brutalize (as the fans are very vocal about, even though they claim the Horde to not be evil, which is rather confusing when people show such disregard for life) would be the villain. Play the Horde, its ok with me and even if you identify with it, that is fine. Its fun to play the bad guys, but don't act as if the Horde and Alliance could be put on the same moral level.

So Sylvanas being brutal and a criminal for her personal gains makes a lot of sense in light of her character, as Pyromancer put it himself

You should just be a bit patient and don't go out of your way to harras the writers, if you do that you are not worthy of even being allowed to play this game.

I think most Horde loyalists are just butthurt about this direction the story goes and upset that the night elves they like to spit on at every time are not the villains in a story, that continues years of crimes and suffering brought on the people in Ashenvale and Darkshore. And you should just act a bit more relax and wait for the story to unfold and not attack Blizzard staff like immature children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question — Why does Sylvanas need to be redeemed? 
Short Answer — She doesn't.

As someone who has a limited knowledge of WoW lore, and who witnessed the uproar caused by Sylvanas’ Warbringer short from the perspective of someone who just likes to encounter complex characters, as I'm sure most people who enjoy stories do. I’m left disagreeing with much of the criticism that stems from the idea that Sylvanas, due to a single animated short, is now suddenly shoehorned into this 'evil' character archetype who is, vindictive, irrational, and ruled by her emotions. A criticism that’s being supported by regurgitated phrases like, “She’s irredeemable as a character now”.

From the Warbringer short, it certainly could be assumed that she may have decided to burn down the world tree based on a petty rage-stricken whim. But I don't think we have enough information to exclude the possibility that doing so may have been part of Sylvanas' or the Horde’s original plan. Additionally, committing an act of war, brutal as it may be, during war... doesn't necessarily make her irredeemable. As an aside, if we're going to attempt to reconcile war-time decision making with a characters core morality, because that’s what we're talking about here, perceived good, perceived evil, and the wishy-washy grey area where most ordinary people’s decisions fall, then we are going to have a bad time. Taking the breadth of a character’s choices, experiences, introspective moments, and general dialogue and pitting all of that against one, albeit extreme, decision is jumping the gun, to say the least.

Let’s get on the same page or at least glance at the same book. What are we actually talking about when we say a character is redeemable? Essentially, we’re saying that we like this character and we don't want to not like them because they made a naughty. Of course, the perception of how ‘bad’ the thing that they did was is completely subjective (everything*), and as such we usually cast our unreasonable judgments from a personal throne that overlooks this character’s entirely made up universe. And if we decide that they were exceptionally mischievous then we bring our celestial gavels rocketing down with all the force of the heavens. 

Crux: We just feel like we can’t root for them anymore. 

Consequently, fingers start being wagged at writers, and according to the players they need to, by some feat of charitable storytelling, have their beloved characters guided back to a place where we can hug them again, without getting poked by the droves of undead who were mercilessly turned into skeletal shrapnel, by a character who, for me, was still in the cuddle zone?

I don’t think anyone who has had any experience with Sylvanas’ character throughout the game can look at her and say yeah, well, she’s beautiful on the inside *high pitched trailing off*? Sylvanas just isn’t what I think a lot of people want her to be. She’s not an archetypal villain-turned-hero due to finally realizing a cause greater than herself, and she certainly isn't a shining example of what a leader should be. Especially in her current situation  where she is at the head of a tribe that holds many different voices, races, ideals and grudges, and I don't think it is ever really made clear that she wants to be the Warchief for anything other than her own personal reasons and conquests. Someone died... so succession, and she is incredibly skilled/powerful and people tend to respect and follow that type of individual. 

The point I'm trying to convey is that if Sylvanas held a warm place in your heart because you thought she was a conflicted character capable of being swayed by forces of good, then I can understand why the short may have rubbed you the wrong way. You may be able to make a case for her being conflicted, but ‘good’ in the colloquial sense of the word. I don’t think so. Although again I have limited knowledge of Sylvanas as a character outside of just the main WoW storyline. Still, I don't think her being ‘good’ was ever really a possibility.

Sylvanas is however all-in, cards on the table, and betting everything in terms of the role that she feels she plays. Take a second to consider the fact that she literally died. Literally. Died. However, she was brought back to life, so there’s that? Additionally, how much of her human/night-elf let's call it ‘soul’, or perhaps just moral inclinations can we assume are still hanging around?

Moving on, what I thought was fantastic about the short was how it portrayed her powerlessness during the moment of her death. She certainly didn’t seem ready to die and the animators did a wonderful job capturing that disbelief and horror. On top of that we are talking about Sylvanas here who, in the short alone, was handing out head-shots like they were free samples, and even still she gets poked to death and has to watch her lifeless corpse, and the corpses of the people who she couldn’t save, a very important point in terms of her character, from a position, of again, total powerlessness, helplessness, hopelessness, whichever word suits you. 

I would say that the weight of her death,  subsequent necro-rez, and coming to terms with the lives that she was unable save is clearly expressed through the character that we know up to this point, and the more we encounter Sylvanas the more she seems to emanate a sort of fatalist aggression? Considering what she has been through I can't really blame her for chasing the exact opposite feeling of that which she experienced during her death, and think it is safe to say that she doesn’t want to be lorded over or feel helpless to that extent ever again. So in that sense, one could empathize with her relentless search for power, and she certainly has her moments: *Banshee Shrieking AoE Instadeath / Raid buff*. I mean seriously what was the CD timer on that move (trailer)? 

Playing devil’s advocate, I think, would reveal a character who is significantly wiser than the criticism that the short seemed to incite. Sylvanas isn’t at odds with her explosive rage and contentment with the world. All of that chaos drives her and allows her to protect her own people. But at the same time, in some way, she understands that she is also just another helpless being in a seemingly inescapable struggle for survival where some people play greater roles than others. 
#HumbledEarly

Another thing to consider while deciding whether she is good, evil, moral, immoral, redeemable, irredeemable, or if that’s even a valid criticism. Is that the Horde may be making their own decisions based on some of the same criteria. Saurfang is definitely a guy to root for if you're into all of that moral ambiguity. Enjoy BFA, you fickle do-gooders!

why-dont-you-render-them-different-colou

Reasons to like Sylvia Plath Sylvanas

  • Edgy One-Liners
  • Sweet (permanent it seems) Eye-liner
  • Feels Good to be Bad
  • Accepts Rez’s

Reasons to not like Sylvanas

  • Burns Childrens n' Innocents
  • Emotionally Volatile
  • Total Glory Hog
  • Doesn’t Like to be Poked

 

Edited by CountSchliktenStaugh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The choice of words used in the animation make me wonder:

"I remember a fall" - a subtle nod to her suicide atop ICC.

"Hope fails" - a nod to one of Yogg-Saron's titles "Hope's End".

And during the questline for chapter 2, Malfurion says "You led your Horde in service of death." - another title of Yogg-Saron "God of Death".

 

I could be reading too much into it (I do that), but maybe they are trying to lead the story in the direction of Yogg, and how he was able to get a foothold in Sylvannas' mind when she threw herself from ICC, impaling herself on Saronite.  If he is whispering in her head, telling her to light the final torch, then instigating a worldwide war that will take attention away from the actions of the Old Gods (like keeping Saurfang out of Silithus - they remember him and don't want a repeateed failure there) and sacrifice many powerful champions that could stand against them in the process, it would ease the coming of the hour of twilight.

 

Thy also emphasized her "warrior spirit", which, in conjunction with the Val'kyr that were bound to her after here suicide, makes me think that Odyn is somehow involved in some way as well. (and that we will see him again in BFA)

 

Again, I'm just over-analyzing their choice of words and theorizing implications.

Edited by Ancalagon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I wouldn't be so certain that Christie wasn't fully involved with what happens with Warbringers. I imagine the artwork and all that was something she wasn't involved in but she does write Elegy, which leads up to those moments. Additionally, I am not going to say they are #fakenewsing us and I don't think its fair to attack her with the direction Blizzard practically set up but from my understanding from Blizzard/Blizzcon, C.G. has been involved with the story since the epilogue cinematic (which was her first part of the prelude to BfA), which was further placed in Before the Storm. Since Blizzard announced her as lead story writer and as most story-boarding goes she has to have some form of understanding of what is going which she could have advised against these turn of events.  

To that extent, its not like she showed up day 1 and was like, "I don't care where its going, I am just going to write what I want", the writing team, I am sure briefed on what they had planned and what they were thinking of doing with her input and she wrote around what she probably liked.

However, with that being said...its a game, its writing...people are either going to like it or dislike it..No one should be personally attacking/threatening someone over fictitious events, thats just silly...the people writing are real people, they can be affected by this nonsense emotionally to the point where you drive them out for no reason.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ancalagon said:

The choice of words used in the animation make me wonder:

"I remember a fall" - a subtle nod to her suicide atop ICC.

"Hope fails" - a nod to one of Yogg-Saron's titles "Hope's End".

And during the questline for chapter 2, Malfurion says "You led your Horde in service of death." - another title of Yogg-Saron "God of Death".

 

I could be reading too much into it (I do that), but maybe they are trying to lead the story in the direction of Yogg, and how he was able to get a foothold in Sylvannas' mind when she threw herself from ICC, impaling herself on Saronite.  If he is whispering in her head, telling her to light the final torch, then instigating a worldwide war that will take attention away from the actions of the Old Gods (like keeping Saurfang out of Silithus - they remember him and don't want a repeateed failure there) and sacrifice many powerful champions that could stand against them in the process, it would ease the coming of the hour of twilight.

 

Thy also emphasized her "warrior spirit", which, in conjunction with the Val'kyr that were bound to her after here suicide, makes me think that Odyn is somehow involved in some way as well. (and that we will see him again in BFA)

 

Again, I'm just over-analyzing their choice of words and theorizing implications.

I think she says, "I remember a fool" -- and brings up the event where she considers her self a fool for believing in Hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Staff
      Save up to 65% on pets and mounts during the spring sale that lasts through April 8. There's a Spring Supreme Pet Pack with 17 pets, and more!
      (Source)
      Spring showers bring April flowers, and new deals are blooming! Freshen up your collection and savor sweet savings during the World of Warcraft® Spring Sale through April 8.1
      The Spring Supreme Pet Pack2 is raining cats, dogs, and more! Throw an adorable pet party by inviting all 17 World of Warcraft pets in the Battle.net® shop to your collection for up to 65% off!
      Alterac Brew-Pup Anima Wyrmling Argi Blinky Blossoming Ancient Brightpaw Cinder Kitten Daisy Dread Hatchling Lil'Ragnaros Lil' Ursoc Lucky Quilen Cub Shadow Soul of the Aspects Twilight Whomper Murkastrasza If you already have one or more pets from The Spring Supreme Pet Pack, the pack's price will automatically adjust to reflect only the missing pets.
      Get Your Pets
      You can also swim through the skies atop the Wondrous Wavewhisker flying mount and command a pair of brutal beasts with The Mighty Kodo Pack—featuring the Armor Siege Kodo ground mount and Crushhoof pet—both are 50% off during the sale.
      1Offers end on April 8, 2024. Mounts, pets, and packs listed are not available in WoW Classic progression games.
      2Pet Bundle is only available on the webshop, not the in-game store.
    • By Staff
      Executive Producer Holly Longdale teased some upcoming experimental PvE-focused content that Blizzard will soon reveal to the community.
      It appears that Plunderstorm isn't the only new mode Blizzard plans to add to WoW this year.
      Holly Longdale today teased an upcoming PvE-oriented event that will soon be revealed to us. Holly might be talking about the "Timerunning Pandamonium," expected in Patch 10.2.7.
      (Source)
      Greetings Citizens of Azeroth,
      It’s been great seeing so many players taking the plunge into Plunderstorm and we’ve loved seeing all of the stories and feedback as this experimental event evolves. It will be exciting to see some of the community content creators going head-to-head as duos during the Plunderstorm Creator Royale on March 30!  This isn’t the end of the things we want to try in World of Warcraft, however, and we have more in store we can’t wait to show you.
      Dragonflight Season 4 is in route as testing begins on the PTR and we’ll have more news to share soon™ on the next experiment we have up our sleeves. We hope those of you who are looking for PvE focused content will enjoy what we’re planning, all while we continue to press forward on development of our next expansion for World of Warcraft— The War Within.
      We can’t wait to share with you all the many things the team has been hard at work on.
      With gratitude and excitement for what we’ll do together next,
      Holly Longdale
    • By Stan
      Blizzard just pushed an encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build to the WoW Dev 3 CDN branch.
      WoW Dev 3 has been updated from 10.2.6.53840 to 10.2.7.53954. The build is encrypted and we can't datamine it.
      Placeholder for tweet 1773384989314298365 13 days ago, we saw the very first encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build on a different branch (WoW Vendor 2).
      Placeholder for tweet 1768106695425700174 According to the 2024 roadmap, Patch 10.2.7, dubbed Dark Heart, is set to introduce new features such as Timerunning Pandamonium, Harbinger Quests, Troll & Draenei Heritage Armor, and a new holiday event.

    • By Stan
      We've looked at the Mythic+ Tier List for the first time in Patch 10.2.6!
      DISCLAIMER
      The following post is based on data from U.GG. Therefore, the data presented here may differ from Petko's Mythic Tier Lists maintained on our site.
      How the Data is Calculated
      U.GG's tier list is created by evaluating damage and healing scores from the very best players and factoring in the frequency of each spec's appearances in the highest rankings of the current Mythic+ season. The tier list of each spec is determined by its effectiveness and prevalence at the highest levels of Mythic+ play.
      Mythic+ Tier List for Dragonflight Season 3 Week 20
      This week's affixes are: Tyrannical, Afflicted, and Bolstering.
      Healer Tier List
      S-Tier Mistweaver Monk A-Tier: Restoration Druid Discipline Priest Holy Priest B-Tier: Restoration Shaman Preservation Evoker C-Tier: Holy Paladin
      Tank Tier List
      S-Tier: Vengeance Demon Hunter A-Tier: Protection Paladin Blood Death Knight B-Tier: Guardian Druid Brewmaster Monk C-Tier Protection Warrior (down from B-Tier)
      DPS Tier List
      S-Tier: Retribution Paladin Shadow Priest (up from A-Tier) Fire Mage A-Tier: Outlaw Rogue Havoc Demon Hunter (down from S-Tier) Augmentation Evoker Demonology Warlock Fury Warrior Beast Mastery Hunter Balance Druid Destruction Warlock Arms Warrior (up from B-Tier) B-Tier: Windwalker Monk (down from A-Tier) Elemental Shaman Unholy Death Knight Enhancement Shaman Frost Mage Survival Hunter Frost Death Knight Marksmanship Hunter (up from C-Tier) Feral Druid  C-Tier: Arcane Mage (down from B-Tier) Devastation Evoker Subtlety Rogue Affliction Warlock Assassination Rogue
    • By Staff
      Here's a video explaining all Plunderstorm skills under 10 minutes.
      Whether you're a seasoned player in need of a quick refresher on what Plunderstorm brings to the table, or you're new to the game mode altogether, this video has you covered. It breaks down each ability in detail, thanks to BBB.
×
×
  • Create New...