wow Saurfang Cinematic: Old Soldier

[Dantalian 20]

Well put side story cinematic! Simple but yet so much showing.

Did the orcs again gainin their colour ( brown ) - the hand moment? Interesting will we see something like that from the alliance part? Or it was shown to redeem Blizzards reputation after Sylvanas Warbringers??

[Zadina 923]

1 minute ago, PatrickHenry said:

i ... dont think he was contemplating leaving.

i think it was a suicide mission.  Like he was ready to 'get what he earned' like honorable death.  To see his son again.

 

I agree with this. Saurfang is shown to be consumed by the thought of an honourable death for a while now.

With his death, though, he just abandons the Horde to the whims of the "evil biatch". The fanbase considers Saurfang a true champion of the Horde. Would a "true champion of the Horde" abandon it at its darkest hour (just) to find honourable death? Honest question btw, I am wondering that myself about Saurfang and I can't find the answer. I really find this depiction of Saurfang problematic both in a good way (he is shown to be truly morally gray, memes aside) and a bad one (his conflict and how he bounces from one end to it to the other is extreme, a true "hero" would always pick survival).

PS: If you have read the spoilers, in the end of the Battle of Lordaeron Sylvanas tells Saurfang some pretty nasty things before he goes to commit honourable sudoku (for the second time in a day). This remark from Sylvanas is so freaking mean, but also so freaking true.

[PatrickHenry 293]

3 minutes ago, Zadina said:

he goes to commit honourable sudoku

LMFAO!!

you win interwebz for this day.

[Demenzel 29]

55 minutes ago, Zadina said:

Lastly, if we agree that the plot/narrative is the cause-and-effect relationship between events in a story (as Forster said), then key events shouldn't be omitted: in WoW's case the fact that Saurfang protested Sylvanas' decision to burn the tree is an important event and it should have been demonstrated in the game.

The thing is that, IMO, Soufang whould NEVER disagree with his Warchieff infront of the army, he knows the importance of unity, that's why you won't see nobody else when he complains about the burning of the tree...

And, the fact that not every part of the story is in the game right know doesn't meant that it wont be accesible there at some point. Legion animated short were avalibe to wach in game after some quest... 

[Starym 3,775]

13 hours ago, Lampanelli said:

You misspelled Soldier in the title. ?

Beyond that, I like this animation. It shows some more of Saurfang, which is sorely needed, though it does sadden me that it carries a strong resemblance vibe to the rebellion against Garrosh. You know, focus on what the true Horde is, how the current warchief doesn't represent that, and how one by one, the other leaders turns against her.

It's pretty sad that Blizzard thinks that replacing the Warchief every few years is good storytelling for little to absurd reasons, but at least this animation is good. Makes me think that if he lives through this, Saurfang will be the next warchief.

Dammit ? that's what happens when you write stuff at 6 in the morning in the middle of sleep ? Sorry.

[Starym 3,775]

6 hours ago, Zadina said:

Unpopular opinion:

This amazing looking cinematic is proof yet again of:

1) how weak the storyline is. Without spoiling too much about how it happens, at the end of the Battle of Undercity Saurfang will change his mind yet again and abandon Sylvanas and the Horde.

and 2) how badly the storyline is executed/presented in game. This has been a major complaint this past week, since Saurfang's objection to the burning of Teldrassil is presented in a novella and in this cinematic but is nowhere to be found ingame. Also, Saurfang's initial inertia ingame and then suddenly his change of mind is pretty poorly executed: this battle-hardened old warrior constantly flipping on his ideals (let's not mention the whole Malfurion incident) is a bit offensive for a character as legendary as Saurfang.

It's pretty amusing how the opinion of the peoples has been swayed again and how in a cinematic dedicated to Saurfang, everyone focuses more on the memeworthy Zappy Boi. It wouldn't surprise me if all that polarization between the playerbase (Alliance vs Horde, Sylvanas loyalists vs honourable (?) Horde, good vs bad vs morally gray) is just part of a giant ARG Blizzard has constructed to hype people up for the expansion and show the division that the Old Gods can cause between the characters and the actual human beings that are playing these characters.

Kudos to Blizzard marketing, though, for winning the fanbase back after a week of heavy beating.

I could write a whole essay about how bad their writing is, but for now I will just stick to what I have already said.

You're giving Blizz waaaay too much credit with the ARG thing, this is just bad writing poorly executed and them patching things as they can. Plus, they know they can always count on the smarter and fanatical people in the community to find SOME way that their terrible writing can make sense (there's already tons of posts on reddit explaining how Sylvanas totally makes sense etc etc).

[PatrickHenry 293]

2 minutes ago, Starym said:

tons of posts on reddit explaining how Sylvanas totally makes sense etc etc).

and fanatical you would likely need to be, (without prior knowledge of something absolutely horrendous living in that tree that nobody could stop otherwise) to think that makes sense.

Edited August 3, 2018 by PatrickHenry

[Starym 3,775]

1 minute ago, PatrickHenry said:

and fanatical you would likely need to be, without prior knowledge of something absolutely horrendous living in that tree that nobody could stop otherwise.

That was my bet for the tree burning for a long time. Il'gynoth type thing that only Sylvanas knew about and no one would believe her / let her destroy the tree, so she goes rogue and does it anyway. That would both be morally grey (she'd still be killing civilians and the symbol of NE culture etc) AND make sense for her character. But no, she has to destroy the alliance cos LOL TWO FACTIONS CANT CO EXIST ON THE SAME PLANET EVER HURR DURR.

[drclawixp 6]

3 hours ago, Prophet001 said:

If you want to know what it looks like to put the entire story into the game, play FF XIV.

 

You will spend 75% of your time watching cut scenes and cinematics.

Yea, and no skipping post launch content if you want to jump right into the expac, either.

[Ogerscherge 43]

1 hour ago, Zadina said:

I agree with this. Saurfang is shown to be consumed by the thought of an honourable death for a while now.

With his death, though, he just abandons the Horde to the whims of the "evil biatch". The fanbase considers Saurfang a true champion of the Horde. Would a "true champion of the Horde" abandon it at its darkest hour (just) to find honourable death? Honest question btw, I am wondering that myself about Saurfang and I can't find the answer. I really find this depiction of Saurfang problematic both in a good way (he is shown to be truly morally gray, memes aside) and a bad one (his conflict and how he bounces from one end to it to the other is extreme, a true "hero" would always pick survival).

PS: If you have read the spoilers, in the end of the Battle of Lordaeron Sylvanas tells Saurfang some pretty nasty things before he goes to commit honourable sudoku (for the second time in a day). This remark from Sylvanas is so freaking mean, but also so freaking true.

I think it's debatable whether a true hero would always value his/her survival over his/her honour, but for the sake of this conversation, let's say that it is true. For a human.

However, it certainly is not the way of an orcish hero. The honourable death on the battlefield is a huge and important part of orcish culture and just saying that this is stupid and they should change their ways is highly disrespectful. And I think this is what so many horde veterans don't like about the new direction Blizzard is taking. It once felt exotic, playing horde, but now every action the horde takes seems so awfully "human" and few appear to be willing to use their imagination anymore and consider that a non-human race/faction might make decisions that are different from what a 21st century human would consider correct/logical/righteous.

[Starym 3,775]

7 minutes ago, Ogerscherge said:

I think it's debatable whether a true hero would always value his/her survival over his/her honour, but for the sake of this conversation, let's say that it is true. For a human.

However, it certainly is not the way of an orcish hero. The honourable death on the battlefield is a huge and important part of orcish culture and just saying that this is stupid and they should change their ways is highly disrespectful. And I think this is what so many horde veterans don't like about the new direction Blizzard is taking. It once felt exotic, playing horde, but now every action the horde takes seems so awfully "human" and few appear to be willing to use their imagination anymore and consider that a non-human race/faction might make decisions that are different from what a 21st century human would consider correct/logical/righteous.

That's a very good point. And I definitely agree with the imagination part, especially in game writing, as everything is pretty much the same all over (even in indies, which is just depressing to infinity). I can't really judge how much of that is poor/bland writing and how much is a conscious corporate decision based on making everything as relatable and friendly as possible in order to reach the widest possible audience.

[Slaith 19]

15 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

i ... dont think he was contemplating leaving.

i think it was a suicide mission.  Like he was ready to 'get what he earned' like honorable death.  To see his son again.

 

Agree, he was obviously walking to his warrior death in a final fight taking on to whole Alliance army.

Powerful movie, loved it.

Too much criticism lately regarding story-telling. Let's wait to see the whole story and what happends at the very end of BFA before judging so much.

[lChronosl 182]

I just read a very cool interview with Alex Afrasiabi, Creative Director of WoW, and I woulk like to quote a part over here (it is from before the War of Thorns).

Quote

As the story of Battle For Azeroth begins, what would you like to say to players about what they should expect in the story that's starting to unfold?

Afrasiabi: What I would say is… Be patient.

This is a living, breathing world and a living, breathing story that is continuing to progress. A game, especially WoW, it isn't like a book where you can just devour it and get the satisfaction of learning and understanding the whole of it, right?

Unfortunately for us, we have chapters broken up across an expansion of patches. So as much as we would love to tell you what's going to happen, we'd really rather you find out for yourself. But in order for that to happen, we have to allow the regular expansion process to unfold. What would be great is...  just... take note of that.

We want to make sure that you feel something, that there's some emotionality there for you. Sometimes it's anger. That's a valid emotion! Sometimes it's happiness, sometimes it's sadness and excitement and so on. But the story is continuing to evolve and the answers you seek will be there and hopefully they satisfy you. It's an ongoing story that we're going to continue to support and continue to tell and we hope the players will be right there alongside us.

I am still not happy with how they portrayed Sylvannas and Saurfang, but I am willing to wait and trust the story team.

Edited August 5, 2018 by lChronosl

[Valhalen 1,484]

I'm not a huuuge fan of this channel, but their analysis on the "Old Soldier" cinematic was pretty good:

 

[Demenzel 29]

On 8/3/2018 at 3:33 PM, PatrickHenry said:

and fanatical you would likely need to be, (without prior knowledge of something absolutely horrendous living in that tree that nobody could stop otherwise) to think that makes sense.

Make sense isn't the same as "was a good thing".

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 8/7/2018 at 2:34 PM, Demenzel said:

Make sense isn't the same as "was a good thing".

Nor was there an implication that it should have been.