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Sylvanas Will Not Be Garrosh 2.0

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Good news, everyone! Senior Game Producer Michael Bybee confirmed at Gamescom that Sylvanas won't be following in the footsteps of Garrosh in Battle for Azeroth.

Click here to read the full PCGamesN article!

Blizzard finally addressed concerns voiced by Horde players that came into existence after the reveal of the Sylvanas animated short. If you're late to the game and haven't played War of Thorns, Sylvanas burned down Teldrassil and players were not particularly happy about that. Some even started harassing Christie Golden who didn't even write Warbringers.

According to PCGamesN, Bybee said that it's all part of the story thread that they've had planned out for a long time. Possibly the most soothing fact is that the Horde Warchief won't receive the Garrosh treatment and there are definitely other plans in store for both factions.

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She didn't write "Warbringers" but she wrote "Before the Storm".  If you've read that book then the events of "Warbringers" are really no surprise because Sylvanas is established, without question, as a true villain.  The burning of the World Tree is all the masks and ambiguity pealed back and a revelation of how corrupt and black her soul is, for not just peace on Azeroth, but for the survival of Azeroth herself.  Vol'Jin really screwed up leaving the big chair for her. 

But the biggest revelation is not just what an irredeemable enemy to The Alliance she is, truly, as bad as any enemy has ever been, but she's poison to The Forsaken as well.

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The question is, will she become Kerrigan 2.0 instead, a neutral hero that both factions have to support in fight against Void Lords. This would have been even worse than her ending like another Garrosh.

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Not really good news if you ask me. So far I find her worse and far more evil than Garrosh so if she gets a better ending than him, I would find it kind of unfair and unjust.

Then again, perhaps this is what they mean. She gets a worse ending, far more humiliating for the horde than the one Garrosh got. Yay...

 

Edit: Another thing. What do you mean "she won't be following in the footsteps of Garrosh"? She already burnt the tree with innocent women and children inside. She already is worse than him.

Unless... Perhaps she is actually dead/lost already (maybe her suicide worked after all) and our current warchief is just an imposter. Would still make the horde look like stupid, spineless and evil lackeys to whomever gives them whatever order, but at least that way they could restore Sylvanas legacy of being only 90% cartoonishly evil.

Anyway, I can't say that I am optimistic about the horde's future.

Edited by Ogerscherge
New thoughts
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8 minutes ago, Ogerscherge said:

Not really good news if you ask me. So far I find her worse and far more evil than Garrosh so if she gets a better ending than him, I would find it kind of unfair and unjust.

Then again, perhaps this is what they mean. She gets a worse ending, far more humiliating for the horde than the one Garrosh got. Yay...

You mean Garrosh that dropped a nuke on a town full of civilians and his own troops, and then tried to commit genocide upon the rest of the horde that weren't orcs or a select bunch of goblins that made him his tools of war to attempt said genocide. Claiming that literally the only way there can be a horde is if it's a true, Orcish horde without others essentially polluting it?

She's definitely not been good or "morally grey" but I wouldn't say she's that far...

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She would need to be touched by The Light or otherwise influenced by some greater external force or, something, for her to ever elevate back to "enemy of my enemy" territory.  

What is going to be interesting is the re-introduction of Calia Menethil into the game storyline from the book.  When/if she usurps Sylvanas as protector of The Forsaken, becoming their "Light Lady" to her "Dark Lady", she will have nothing.  It would be rather fitting for her to end up in a Warden prison like Illidan.

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8 minutes ago, Aegrotat said:


She's definitely not been good or "morally grey" but I wouldn't say she's that far...


Yeah, she is that bad and she's done the same.  She slaughtered The Desolate Council in cold blood as a stepping stone to war, as a means to spin the event with the rest of The Forsaken, to blame it on Humans, to stamp out the hope they had of ever being accepted by their living relatives or ever being accepted as anything but a notch above The Scourge.  Sylvanas loves The Forsaken the same as a common wife beater loves his battered wife. 

And the rest of The Horde are simply tools for her.  She doesn't even respect Baine, though she and The Forsaken owe their current existence to his generosity in bringing them into The Horde after being rejected by The Alliance as abominations.  Her only desire is more power and more Forsaken, but she'll gladly sacrifice any that dare question or challenge her, because her sights are set on Stormwind and turning all of Humanity into more undead to serve her.

Edited by Sholto
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1 minute ago, Aegrotat said:

You mean Garrosh that dropped a nuke on a town full of civilians and his own troops, and then tried to commit genocide upon the rest of the horde that weren't orcs or a select bunch of goblins that made him his tools of war to attempt said genocide. Claiming that literally the only way there can be a horde is if it's a true, Orcish horde without others essentially polluting it?

She's definitely not been good or "morally grey" but I wouldn't say she's that far...

Theramore was a military base and attacking those things during war isn't really something I would hold against Garrosh. Calling it a city full of civillians is a bit dishonest.

But regardless, I am not defending him. He was an asshole and he had to go. Just like Sylvanas. That's my point. 

We can argue all night who is actually more evil and many people did, but honestly, I don't want to.

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3 minutes ago, Ogerscherge said:

Theramore was a military base and attacking those things during war isn't really something I would hold against Garrosh. Calling it a city full of civillians is a bit dishonest.

But regardless, I am not defending him. He was an asshole and he had to go. Just like Sylvanas. That's my point. 

We can argue all night who is actually more evil and many people did, but honestly, I don't want to.

The only thing I wana point out was that Theramore wasn't a military base, it was a neutral standing city

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16 minutes ago, Aegrotat said:

The only thing I wana point out was that Theramore wasn't a military base, it was a neutral standing city

Wut? No, Theramore Keep was THE military base of the Alliance on Kalimdor. Many of the Alliance quests in Dustwallow Marsh in Cataclysm centered around aiding the military.

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41 minutes ago, Ogerscherge said:

Anyway, I can't say that I am optimistic about the horde's future.



Sylvanas set the wheel in motion for losing The Forsaken to Calia Menethil.   She's the hero that they need.  I'm not necessarily optimistic for the future of the Horde but I am for The Forsaken.  Baine and the rest of the "Original Horde" should think long and hard about whether the future of the Horde should include some of these other new races once The Forsaken go neutral.

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12 minutes ago, Sholto said:



Sylvanas set the wheel in motion for losing The Forsaken to Calia Menethil.   She's the hero that they need.  I'm not necessarily optimistic for the future of the Horde but I am for The Forsaken.  Baine and the rest of the "Original Horde" should think long and hard about whether the future of the Horde should include some of these other new races once The Forsaken go neutral.

Third faction? Sounds too good to be true. 😄

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52 minutes ago, Ogerscherge said:

Third faction? Sounds too good to be true. 😄

Not so much third faction, but they could become neutral, like the Goblin used to be and certain groups within their race, as well as others.   

The Tauren brought them into the Horde but Varian has made overtures towards some reconciliation with the Humans after being forced to face his prejudices thanks to his surprising meeting with Alonsos Faol, creator of The Silver Hand and now undead servant of The Light.  Even Genn recognizes, finally, that The Forsaken are not simply creatures and that Sylvanas does not need to define them.  If The Light can accept them and create one of their kind (Calia Menethil) then old ideas and grudges need to be re-evaluated.

I guess for players they could split as well, they could be given a choice, like the Pandaren.  It's possible that some of the Forsaken will hold too much of a grudge against Calia's brother to follow her either to rebuild Lordaeron or settle someplace else.  The rest might be so lost and damaged that they stick with Sylvanas like so many stay in toxic, abusive relationships, because they don't think they deserve better or are more afraid of the Unknown.

Edited by Sholto
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2 hours ago, Arcling said:

The question is, will she become Kerrigan 2.0 instead, a neutral hero that both factions have to support in fight against Void Lords. This would have been even worse than her ending like another Garrosh.

I don't think so. I am actually thinking she will share the same fate as Illidan. Sacrificing herself to end the void in any she can. But I do not think she will be truly "neutral", the Alliance already showed their hatred for Sylvanas (Especially now since the burning of Teldrassil). And I really doubt that Anduin will forgive her for burning Teldrassil and "starting" a war. The alliance may end up finding their own means of tackling the void. Or siding with the Horde that's not apart of Sylvanas's horde.

Edited by Rhondis

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The Alliance hatred for Sylvanas is well and truly justified.  She wants an undead genocide on the entirety of the Human population.  That's her end game.  That's not a difference of opinion.  That's someone that needs to be gone.  She's cancer to everyone, including the world that they live in.  Including her "own people".

She's nothing like Illidan.

Edited by Sholto

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Given that the Horde rebelled against Garrosh for far less, Blizz are gonna have to pull some serious deus ex machi-

 

... If their solution to the problem involves Old Gods/Void Lords Imma REE so hard.

Edited by Brutalis

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She doesn't even respect Baine, though she and The Forsaken owe their current existence to his generosity in bringing them into The Horde after being rejected by The Alliance as abominations

Also I'd like to point out this is no longer the case. Chronicles retconned this and Thrall accepted the Forsaken just fine without the Tauren pleading their case.

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6 minutes ago, Brutalis said:

Given that the Horde rebelled against Garrosh for far less

The difference is that Garrosh tried to purge de Horde from the other races, every "evil" action that Sylvanas did was againts her ppl (Before the Storm) or against the Alliance.

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Kind of crazy they have to actually come out and confirm this, but I totally understand it as a way to calm down some of the audience. I personally have disliked her "development" (or lack thereof) recently but the overall zone storylines on BfA have been decent to me.

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5 hours ago, Sholto said:

She didn't write "Warbringers" but she wrote "Before the Storm".  If you've read that book then the events of "Warbringers" are really no surprise because Sylvanas is established, without question, as a true villain.  The burning of the World Tree is all the masks and ambiguity pealed back and a revelation of how corrupt and black her soul is, for not just peace on Azeroth, but for the survival of Azeroth herself.  Vol'Jin really screwed up leaving the big chair for her. 

But the biggest revelation is not just what an irredeemable enemy to The Alliance she is, truly, as bad as any enemy has ever been, but she's poison to The Forsaken as well.

But I hope your opening line doesn't justify the harassment of Christine Golden because that is still a lame, deplorable, childish set of actions by the people giving those of us who enjoy this hobby a bad name...

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5 hours ago, Demenzel said:

The difference is that Garrosh tried to purge de Horde from the other races, every "evil" action that Sylvanas did was againts her ppl (Before the Storm) or against the Alliance.

Was going to say, the horde didn't rebel against Garrosh because of Theramore or something, they rebelled because he literally claimed that they needed the true, Orcish horde (featuring a few goblins). and not even just purging the horde of other races, but also removing a large section of other orcs for things like disagreeing with him, or being warlocks

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9 hours ago, Sholto said:

She didn't write "Warbringers" but she wrote "Before the Storm".  If you've read that book then the events of "Warbringers" are really no surprise because Sylvanas is established, without question, as a true villain.  The burning of the World Tree is all the masks and ambiguity pealed back and a revelation of how corrupt and black her soul is, for not just peace on Azeroth, but for the survival of Azeroth herself.  Vol'Jin really screwed up leaving the big chair for her. 

But the biggest revelation is not just what an irredeemable enemy to The Alliance she is, truly, as bad as any enemy has ever been, but she's poison to The Forsaken as well.

Just because she wrote it does not mean she is responsible for the plot.

In most cases when writers write for third parties like this (as in not their own IP), they are given the plot in varying levels of detail (Sylvanas did this this and this, this is her motivation, and characters X, Y and Z need to do... etc.). The writer is then just taking it froma list of pre-established bullet points, and fleshing it out.

Just because "Before the Storm" came out first, does not mean that it was developed first. I suspect this whole storyline has been in the pipleline for years, and she likely had very little creative freedom in the major plot points.

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7 hours ago, Brutalis said:

... If their solution to the problem involves Old Gods/Void Lords Imma REE so hard.

you know it will, like half the dungeons have tentacles shooting out everywhere lol

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Do you think when Arthas' journey was being penned, they struggled with worry that Alliance fans would get upset that one of there's would turn to evil? Well that is where Blizzard has been ever since. I am a Horde player. I love that Blizzard has broken through their fear of offending players that their side may not be as pure as the other side. 

I mean this with all sincerity- this entire obsession with faction 'fairness' is not healthy and is paralyzing the lore. Marketing loves it, but creatives hate it. 

I for one love that my Tauren is living in a more fathomless world. 

Finally, I have said this for weeks- If you never type or say the word 'Azerite' in your disappointment over Sylvanas, you are missing a lot of her long term logic for her choices. But I do not blame you. I do blame that on Blizzard though. In game this crystallized blood of Azeroth, only comes across as "Azerite- Extra Strength Gunpowder®"

 

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11 hours ago, Ogerscherge said:

Not really good news if you ask me. So far I find her worse and far more evil than Garrosh so if she gets a better ending than him, I would find it kind of unfair and unjust.

Alliance War Campaign makes her look even worse. She was fine by employing someone like a san'layn Blood Prince Dreven, who had begun making new san'layn (Alliance killed him and stopped that) and even drained out of blood some Horde troops.

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      Talent Changes:
      The level 15 talent Elemental Blast will now always pick a different secondary stat buff when causing an Mastery: Elemental Overload. The level 30 talent Master of the Elements can now also benefit a Physical damage spell, allowing it to increase the damage of an Earthquake. The level 100 talent Stormkeeper now also increases the damage of your next two Lightning Bolts by 250% in addition to its existing effects. This damage bonus will also apply to the Elemental Overloads of Lightning Bolt from Stormkeeper. The Master of the Elements and Stormkeeper changes are primarily to help keep balance between single target damage and area damage of the talent rows. Master of the Elements will now affect your next Earthquake spell to keep the talent more competitive when dealing area damage, and Stormkeeper will grant you two really powerful Lightning Bolts that also cause Elemental Overloads when fighting just a single target.
      The level 15 talent Exposed Elements has been removed, and the level 90 talent Earthen Rage has taken its place The level 60 talent High Voltage has been removed. New talent in the level 60 row: Call the Thunder New talent in the level 90 row: Surge of Power When looking at the whole sum of changes made to Elemental Shaman this expansion, we feel that some of the passive talent choices weren’t holding up well, and had no interaction with how you played the game at all. We’re adding some experimental new talents that should allow some additional decision making on how you choose to use some of your abilities. Please keep in mind that both of these new talents, as well as all of the other changes, are still under iteration and may change entirely throughout the patch 8.1.0 PTR cycle.
    • By Starym
      We're back to daily hotfixes it seems, as today brings Druid and Priest nerfs/fixes for unintended interactions, yet more Fetid Devourer nerfs, a Conquest fix for the first brawl of the day and more.
      September 18 (source)
      Classes
      Druid Casting Regrowth with Rampant Growth active and Innervate active no longer grants two stacks of Lively Spirit. Priest Holy Guardian Spirit can no longer heal for more than 200% of the Priest's maximum HP. Dungeons and Raids
      Scarlet Monastery Scarlet Fanatic’s Hands of Purity no longer deals excessive damage. The Underrot Ticks now do less damage and spawn in smaller numbers. Unbound Abomination now spawns pools of Vile Expulsion around him. Uldir Fetid Devourer Corruption Corpuscle health reduced by 10% on Mythic difficulty. Island Expeditions
      The bonus XP reward for completing a normal Island Expedition has been increased. Player versus Player
      The PvP Brawl first win of the day now properly awards 40 Conquest. The Seasonal PvP Mount now properly indicates you need Combatant Rated PvP rank or higher to earn it. Druid Feral Earthen Grasp now only affects melee hit chance, and no longer reduces spell hit chance. Previous Hotfixes
      September 17th September 14th September 13th