positiv2

Heroes of the Storm Mephisto

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This thread is for comments about our Mephisto guide.

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11 minutes ago, Guest jesus said:

Maybe should've created a guide first?

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you please elaborate?

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58 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you please elaborate?

There was nothing under that link earlier.

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6 hours ago, Guest jesus said:

There was nothing under that link earlier.

Yeah, the threads are created before the content is released so that people who want to comment don't see a screen telling them that the there is no such thread. In my opinion, having a thread with a dead link is better than not having the thread when the guide is up.

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@Straften, can you create an additional build revolving around Lightning Nova, like this one, considering that these talents are listed as recommended? With a build around Lightning Nova though, I'm curious if Consumed by HatredConsumed by Hatred might be worth taking over MimicMimic or if the latter fares better in this build, considering that using your shade offensively as is required with Mimic can potentially be dangerous and risky. Any thoughts on this would be welcome and highly appreciated. 🙂

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@Valhalen, what are your opinions on MimicMimic vs Consumed by HatredConsumed by Hatred in a Lightning Nova build? On paper I'd assume that Mimic synergizes better with the build, but I know Consumed by Hatred is super good, even without the spell power build. What do you think?

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14 minutes ago, Maxkitty said:

@Valhalen, what are your opinions on MimicMimic vs Consumed by HatredConsumed by Hatred in a Lightning Nova build? On paper I'd assume that Mimic synergizes better with the build, but I know Consumed by Hatred is super good, even without the spell power build. What do you think?

I think it depends on the map, really. I can see MimicMimic being ridiculously powerful in maps with stationary objectives (Dragon Shire, Wolksvagen Volskaya Foundry, Braxis Holdout, Sky Temple) where you just pop the Shade of MephistoShade of Mephisto in the middle of the area to zone people out. In maps where players tend to spread out for objectives (Warhead Junction, Blackheart's Bay) I can see it losing value, where Consumed by HatredConsumed by Hatred seems more attractive.

I personally like the Heroic upgrade better because it gives Mephisto pretty much a global Last RitesLast Rites (obviously much less powerful). However, depending on your team composition I can even see Durance of HateDurance of Hate being more effective because you can pin people down in CC chains with other abilities (Ring of FrostRing of Frost, Entangling RootsEntangling Roots, Scroll Of SealingScroll Of Sealing, Warden's CageWarden's Cage and obviously Mosh PitMosh Pit), allowing to maximize the damage dealt by Lightning NovaLightning Nova baked with all those nasty talents.

I haven't tested it yet, but is the Lightning NovaLightning Nova generated by MimicMimic affected by related talents?

Edited by Valhalen
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13 hours ago, Valhalen said:

I think it depends on the map, really. I can see MimicMimic being ridiculously powerful in maps with stationary objectives (Dragon Shire, Wolksvagen Volskaya Foundry, Braxis Holdout, Sky Temple) where you just pop the Shade of MephistoShade of Mephisto in the middle of the area to zone people out. In maps where players tend to spread out for objectives (Warhead Junction, Blackheart's Bay) I can see it losing value, where Consumed by HatredConsumed by Hatred seems more attractive.

I personally like the Heroic upgrade better because it gives Mephisto pretty much a global Last RitesLast Rites (obviously much less powerful). However, depending on your team composition I can even see Durance of HateDurance of Hate being more effective because you can pin people down in CC chains with other abilities (Ring of FrostRing of Frost, Entangling RootsEntangling Roots, Scroll Of SealingScroll Of Sealing, Warden's CageWarden's Cage and obviously Mosh PitMosh Pit), allowing to maximize the damage dealt by Lightning NovaLightning Nova baked with all those nasty talents.

I haven't tested it yet, but is the Lightning NovaLightning Nova generated by MimicMimic affected by related talents?

I'm not sure, but if it is, that would make it all the more powerful. I'll be able to test it later today, in about 4-5 hours, so I can edit this then to confirm.

And I find it to be a hard decision between the two, considering that both are powerful. I'd assume that if the enemies are often low on health, it might be better to go with the heroic upgrade, but if they are more durable and are often high on health, I might consider MimicMimic a bit better mainly to aid in doing eye-watering damage and to get the enemies low. Then again, it is way better on static objectives like you said, and I'd probably say it would work best on Infernal Shrines more than any other map, due to the fact that it can zone very well AND do very high damage, mainly due to the way the objective is laid out. 

Edit: Mimic does work with talents for Lightning Nova, but static field will not proc on the shade, only you.

Edited by Maxkitty

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Hey, Lightning Nova build should have been present in the guide, but due to a missing file, it was not added properly. Sorry for this, as this is my fault, but the file has been added and the build should be visible soon.

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2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

I'm surprised you guys didn't include Mephisto's Lord of Hatred Build (which gives massive CDR capabilities) and/or the Lightning Nova Build (which can potentially deal eye-watering damage).

Any thoughts on those, Mr. @Straften?

2 hours ago, Maxkitty said:

@Straften, can you create an additional build revolving around Lightning Nova, like this one, considering that these talents are listed as recommended? With a build around Lightning Nova though, I'm curious if Consumed by HatredConsumed by Hatred might be worth taking over MimicMimic or if the latter fares better in this build, considering that using your shade offensively as is required with Mimic can potentially be dangerous and risky. Any thoughts on this would be welcome and highly appreciated. 🙂

 

There is supposed to be a Lightning Nova Build already up; here is a link for those interested in seeing it right away. We have had some technical issues in getting it posted. 

As for the full Lord of Hatred Build, I addressed this in the Abilities section: "...investing into Lord of Hatred too heavily may lower your overall damage output." Many of Mephisto's Talents are a choice between making Abilities more powerful, or using them more often. At some point CDR has diminishing returns, especially when Lightning Nova can only be cast again after it ends. My initial feeling on this is that you should probably take up to 2 CDR Talents at once; time will tell as the meta develops around his release.

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Got to try Meph today and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised!  I liked the character himself well enough but for whatever reason watching his hero spotlight and looking at his abilities prior to his release actually made me lose a bit of interest in the hero.  I don't know why exactly, maybe his model looked a bit off, his gameplay looked a bit boring, not sure why exactly.  Having played him now though?  I have to say he has very quickly grown on me.  He's a lot more fun to play than he looks.

Today I did his Heroic focused build (Level 1 Spell Power + Level 13 Hysteria) and his global nuke was every bit as satisfying as I expected it to be.  His teleport is tricky to use well especially alongside his Lightning Nova and then keeping them in the ring is also a challenge (with smaller enemies anyway).

Most of his talents are relatively obvious in how they play out but two of them stood out to me as a bit better than I expected them to be (specifically they help his PvE/Wave Clear).

I've always been a fan of Devil's Due on Diablo and Abundance on Alex for making regen globes busted and I'm happy to say Meph's Spite talent follows right along with them.  The increased sustain and ability cooldowns were very noticable and helped make it so I very rarely needed to retreat.  Once Hysteria comes along Spite becomes even better as it helps get your Heroic faster even when not directly fighting.

The other talent that was interesting for me was Animosity.  While not the beast Static Field might be I was actually impressed with how useful Animosty was.  It's still useful in team fights, letting you keep your Nova up for significantly longer, meaning more damage and more cooldown reduction (and also helps even in 1v1 situations where Static Field kinda doesn't).  Where it really pulls its weight though is in PvE.  Whether you're knocking down towers or a boss, Animosity gives you that much more up time on your Lightning Nova damage (and a few extra ticks via auto attacks).  Not to say those reasons make it better than Static Field but I actually think it's a viable alternative in certain situations/maps/comps.

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7 hours ago, KSDT said:

Today I did his Heroic focused build (Level 1 Spell Power + Level 13 Hysteria) and his global nuke was every bit as satisfying as I expected it to be.

I mean, I totally agree with you, but I’m sure we can both agree that it's gonna get nerfed due to the insane amount of people who are gonna complain about it 😛

Plus the lvl 20 upgrade for it is busted, so it’s certainly gonna get nerfed.

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Honestly surprised there's no Skull Missile (Q) build listed, you get massive CDR from landing multiple multi hit Q's in team fights and heal a decent amount giving you sustainability in fights. Lets you keep your W up quite a bit and get 2-3 blinks in one fight.

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I also really like the Skull Missile build. Safe, reliable, can basically be fired on the move, tapped before a port, and it's just constant. 50% damage to heal is pretty good when you're a squishy hitting multiple targets at a time. The stacks are incredibly easy to get early. It does have some issues doing lasting damage when 1v5, similar to slower firing sustain characters. So apparently you need teammates to be able to finish kills with it. Nova in this scenario is used as a zoning tool. Which, also is used when on the move. It makes Mephisto a pain to chase when combined with his skull healing.

The Nova Build is more 50/50. Either it does enormous damage from lack of CC or teammates that used up abilities to let you skim the edges of the fights or you get CC'd or just too damaged too quickly. It has more finishing power than Skull Missile though, assuming your enemies are slow or have tunnel vision. The zoning effect is probably the best part of Mephisto so far, with the self heal a close second for me. Yes, his damage can be high, but so can other assassins. And they aren't in their first OP month still.

One funny thing to notice is using his own port as bait. This combos well with his Skull Missile and Heroic Durance of Hate. Probably the only use I've ever gotten of the secondary heroic reliably is when porting away from enemies, and firing my heroic and skull, activating nova, and porting back. When outnumbered or facing very mobile enemies where running isn't an option, it's a good way of clustering the enemy for a heroic counter. After all, why wouldn't you want to attack Mephisto as he ports back? It's the best shot you have at dealing damage to him. While body blocking is one of your best tools of keeping him from getting away and preventing him from landing Nova. If they land, you can try running with a nova as a deterrant. Combo might shake off an enemy or two and give you a chance to flee properly. Or it might just get you killed faster. :p

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Had a blast with the Trait build yesterday. Spamming Novas like crazy and being over 50% mana the entire match thanks to SpiteSpite. Funtimes.

I've noticed that Mephisto can do some nifty teleports from safe zones, such as the bottom part of the objetctives in Alterac Pass (between the base and the cages) and the middle bush right above the Dragon Knight altar in Dragon Shire. Slippery as fuck.

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9 hours ago, Maxkitty said:

I mean, I totally agree with you, but I’m sure we can both agree that it's gonna get nerfed due to the insane amount of people who are gonna complain about it 😛

Plus the lvl 20 upgrade for it is busted, so it’s certainly gonna get nerfed.

Here's to hoping people are used to this type of effect by now from other characters (Malth's Last Rites, or Karthas from LoL) that they don't complain like children...  Oh who am I kidding?  They just managed to get Chromie gutted because they cried about her, so sure, I can see it happening.  Still I can always dream that Blizzard doesn't crumble to whiners.

3 hours ago, Morcalivan said:

I also really like the Skull Missile build. Safe, reliable, can basically be fired on the move, tapped before a port, and it's just constant.

I think the reason the Skull Missile talents don't get their own build is because A) the author doesn't seem to think the missile is reliable (too easy to dodge thanks to the delay I imagine) and B) the talents compete against better general talents in their tiers that benefit all of his skills even Skull.  Like Level 1, his Skull talent is fine but why pick it when you can get 20% spell power to benefit his Skull and everything else?  His level 4 Skull talent is competing with either a large shield to help protect against burst or an amazing sustain talent in Spite.  The guide already recommends his level 13 Skull talent regardless of build and his level 16 Skull talent is tough to make use of.  Honestly I don't really see the need to a separate "Skull build."

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4 hours ago, KSDT said:

The guide already recommends his level 13 Skull talent regardless of build 

Actually, for the consumed souls build, Hysteria is shown to be an alternative to that talent. However, as said in the build's description, "If you plan to use Consume Souls as a follow-up rather than a team fight opener, you can take Hysteria instead of Abhorred Skull." Right now, it looks like the best way to use Consume Souls is as a follow up, and while Abhorred Skull is great for the build, especially once you reach 20, getting superpowered Consume Souls even more often turns it into a game winner. Of course, the author may have a different opinion, and they are entitled to that. I just like Hysteria more, personally.

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43 minutes ago, Maxkitty said:

I just like Hysteria more, personally.

Hey, you'll get no arguments from me, as I mentioned in my first post, Hysteria is what I play.

My comment was more talking about having a specific Skull talent build and why I didn't see the need.

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10 hours ago, KSDT said:

Here's to hoping people are used to this type of effect by now from other characters (Malth's Last Rites, or Karthas from LoL) that they don't complain like children...  Oh who am I kidding?  They just managed to get Chromie gutted because they cried about her, so sure, I can see it happening.  Still I can always dream that Blizzard doesn't crumble to whiners.

I think the reason the Skull Missile talents don't get their own build is because A) the author doesn't seem to think the missile is reliable (too easy to dodge thanks to the delay I imagine) and B) the talents compete against better general talents in their tiers that benefit all of his skills even Skull.  Like Level 1, his Skull talent is fine but why pick it when you can get 20% spell power to benefit his Skull and everything else?  His level 4 Skull talent is competing with either a large shield to help protect against burst or an amazing sustain talent in Spite.  The guide already recommends his level 13 Skull talent regardless of build and his level 16 Skull talent is tough to make use of.  Honestly I don't really see the need to a separate "Skull build."

You pick it because it doesn't just increase damage. It increases cooldown. It is in fact very easy to land and quick to stack. I wish it would stack further with a third quest or something. Nova is just as easily dodged. Not sure why that would come up.

Once stacked you just rapid fire Skull Missile when in a group fight. The reason this is so strong is because of it's fire and forget function that lets you shoot on the go and the heal which negates most return fire.

It does this from a ranged level of safety not offered by Nova.

So yes, it does have its use. The lost spell power for consumed souls is a bummer though. Durance of Hate is just so slow too, so I rarely take it. Needing crowd control to land a crowd control... gah. More of a melee range defense most of the time.

 

Edited by Morcalivan

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is start to undestans my people start to complain against, mephisto ult. end game its allmost 1k dmg, without you cannot dodge it ( well little exeption, like uther bubble). well you can if you kill mephosto, but still its kinda sick, that you can do (assumuing all enemies are alive at that point) 5000 dmg, for free, its just sick

 

Edited by Seeppari
sorry, at 20 it does little bit under 900, but still

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8 hours ago, Morcalivan said:

You pick it because it doesn't just increase damage. It increases cooldown. It is in fact very easy to land and quick to stack. I wish it would stack further with a third quest or something. Nova is just as easily dodged. Not sure why that would come up.

I would imagine it's "easy" to stack right now because the hero is new and people are still getting used to playing vs him.  Over time people will learn to dodge him much like they (should) do vs Chromie (or they'll not bother and they'll just complain and get him nerfed too).  Lightning Nova doesn't have the second start up and hits a very wide area that you can move around to correct your aim.  I expect that's why it's seen as "more reliable."

Edited by KSDT

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Some things that might be worth noting about Shade of MephistoShade of Mephisto:

- Stitches' GorgeGorge prevents Mephisto from teleporting back as it "removes" him from the battlefield, therefore he cannot teleport back while inside the big bully's belly. This alone makes Stitches a fantastic counter to Mephisto.

- Entering Blaze's Bunker DropBunker Drop will also prevent Mephisto from teleporting back.

- Chromie is also a powerful counter to Mephisto as she can simply Temporal LoopTemporal Loop his ass when he teleports in; he will be dragged back even after teleporting back.

Edited by Valhalen

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