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Ion Hazzikostas on Azerite Armor & Mythic+ Rewards

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Game Director Ion Hazzikostas answered a few questions on Twitter yesterday about two pieces of the same Azerite Armor requiring higher Heart of Azeroth level and Mythic+ rewards.

First off, Ion answered a question related to Mythic+ rewards in Battle for Azeroth. A player apparently got confused and thought Blizzard promised Mythic+ to be more rewarding during a Q&A, but the answer was pulled out of context and pertained to the question beginning at 43:00.

The second question is about two pieces of the same Azerite Armor (same traits, source, item levels) requiring higher Heart of Azeroth levels to unlock traits. The issue mostly affects dungeon gear.

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(Image posted by redditor Sovos here)

According to Ion, the system isn't supposed to work like this. Heroic/Mythic gear pieces should obviously have different requirements and power, but that shouldn't be the case if the source of an item is the same. In the image above, we have the Emissary vs. Warfront/PvP Reward.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

This WoW reddit thread apparently has you saying the mythic+ chest was going to be more generous in June this year during a Q&A.

I recognize the unfortunate confusion that our lack of clarity here caused, but that's not accurate: The question I was answering there began at 43:00 or so, where I said M+ rewards were going to use the same structure as Legion. Everything I said is how the system works on live.

Yo @WarcraftDevs this is the third time in the past few days I have seen someone mentioning this. Please comment.

Dm6lZZnWwAEkoAE.jpg:large

I'd be curious to hear more info on this - there's nothing about the system that's meant to work that way. A Mythic vs. Heroic piece may have different requirements (and different power), but if the source is the same the requirements should be the same.

I have yet to see it myself, but I haven't repeated low level content so I don't have old gear to go and compare it too. Like wise, I haven't repeated high content enough. My concern is that I have seen multiple reports. (Link to comment)

Got it. We'll look into it, thanks! The image linked in that thread is the Emissary-reward vs. Warfront/PvP version of the same item issue I mentioned above, FWIW.

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still no az gear in M+ run. Who care about weekly chest rewards. I agree with 1 item per week but the BIS az gear is 1/100. if someone is unlucky they will never get az gear at all if they don't raid. 

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How many bugs does one expansion have to have? Not to be salty but it really feels like we are still in beta.

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1 hour ago, rahnaddonerisal said:

still no az gear in M+ run. Who care about weekly chest rewards. I agree with 1 item per week but the BIS az gear is 1/100. if someone is unlucky they will never get az gear at all if they don't raid. 

I do raid... but none of my AZ gear from raids.  I have 7 peices of 340 az gear in my bags for different specs.  Two pieces are from daily emissary quests, one is from Warfronts and the rest are from doing Mythic +0 dungeons.

I am ilvl 355 and raid but none of my az gear is from raiding.  Raiding is probably the worst way to get az gear.  Only 1 piece of az gear in Uldir is any good for me.  Dungeons are a way better source for az gear than Raiding is.

That's why the Mythic Uldir race is basically on hold because the top raiders are going back to run Mythic +10 to gear up so they can actually beat the dps check on Mythic Fetid Devourer.

Edited by geofferson
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15 minutes ago, geofferson said:

I do raid... but none of my AZ gear from raids.  I have 7 peices of 340 az gear in my bags for different specs.  Two pieces are from daily emissary quests, one is from Warfronts and the rest are from doing Mythic +0 dungeons.

I am ilvl 355 and raid but none of my az gear is from raiding.  Raiding is probably the worst way to get az gear.  Only 1 piece of az gear in Uldir is any good for me.  Dungeons are a way better source for az gear than Raiding is.

That's why the Mythic Uldir race is basically on hold because the top raiders are going back to run Mythic +10 to gear up so they can actually beat the dps check on Mythic Fetid Devourer.

but the main problem is, that if you aim for higher item levels, its impossible to get the right pieces together. Or do you want to run around with 340 AZ gear forever? Of course you can farm the shit out of m+0 and get all the az gear in this ilvl. But when it comes to 355 or 370 gear, you have to take the 1 in a millionth chance to get the right az item from the weekly chest, since they dont drop from the runs themselves. Raids on the other hand, even if they have IDs, have fixed drop sources that you can aim for (f. e. with the reroll token).

I like the idea, people in other threads brought up, that the weekly chest should just drop 1az and 1 normal item. or add a probability for an AZ item, to drop additionaly to the 1 item you get. It would easy to change it to this right now. But hopefully they will change everything with AZgear and drops and so on in a greater scale.

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47 minutes ago, geofferson said:

Dungeons are a way better source for az gear than Raiding is.

Yeah dude, good luck with your 0% chance on 355+ az gear in dungeons. Best way BY FAR.

 

/sarcasm

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AZ gear is the worst part of the expansion so far. The whole idea is great, but the integration into game is terrible. This RNG factor what is play in this is greater than was with legendarys in Legion. I think even there was a greater chance to get a BiS lego than here to get that azerite armor what you exactly need. Plus here is NOTHING what you can do to farm. I mean in Legion you had a greater chance if did old content, world quests or dungeons, etc. Now is nothing, you clear Mythic dungeon(s) and if you are a raider then Uldir and that's it, oh and warfront if I good understand and there is a chect every time... 1 to 1000 a chance and you have only this 2 or 3 option to get that BiS. Not to mention the whole ilvl and balance issue with this armors. I'm in 362 but simple can be much stronger someone with better, BiS traits in 340. Ah I hate already this system at least as much the legendaries from last expansion.

Edited by Hypersonic

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1 hour ago, geofferson said:

That's why the Mythic Uldir race is basically on hold because the top raiders are going back to run Mythic +10 to gear up so they can actually beat the dps check on Mythic Fetid Devourer.

Yeah was funny to see this morning Method sought a Temple +10 key by Deepshades instead of progress.

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54 minutes ago, Hypersonic said:

 Not to mention the whole ilvl and balance issue with this armors. I'm in 362 but simple can be much stronger someone with better, BiS traits in 340....


This is neither unique to AZ gear or this expansion.  Anyone who actually looks at performance and not ilvl, who would run sims on their class+spec will not always be running the highest ilvl pieces that might be in their bag.  A higher ilvl piece is only an automatic upgrade for simps.  And that's not new.  That's always been the case since the simps even started paying attention to item level and there were addons created to track it and superficially judge other players by it.

That's not to say it's not been frustrating this whole time to raiders, but the simple fact is, it's often been the case that sometimes oddly itemized blue gear, one or two tier prior set bonuses, etc. have had enough synergy with abilities or specs and either synthetic bonuses or extreme reliance on certain secondary stats has made them the right choice to equip from a pure performance standpoint, item level be damned.  

Explaining that might not win you a spot in a PUG run by a simp, but if you're running with guildies everyone should just wear what works best and get over it.  If you can clear stuff a trash talker in higher ilvl can't then you still win, and they don't even know what they don't know and they'll either figure it out one day or they'll always be bad.

edit: also, can't that 340 AZ gear forge upwards that same as any other piece of gear?   If I can get a 350 or 355 upgrade roll on a blue or 340 piece re-running Mythics for 340 gear opens this possibility, no?  Or point me to the blue post that explicitly precludes AZ gear from upgrade rolls.

Edited by Sholto

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I hate to be that guy but, I really wish blizz would have just kept the Legion system. Just gave every class 10-15 new leggo's.  Yeah ppl would have complained but not for long. They would have had a Perfect, I SAY PERFECT game, if from the beginning they would have copy pasted Legions systems into BFA with one, only 1 change.  Have AP empower all of your specs instead of one (in legions beginning it was too much of a grind, grinding AP for every spec). Give everyones artifact weapon 6 more skins to work toward, extend the order hall..Hell , where was the flaw?? Why change so much?? I try and main 2 classes but I play around 10 total (professions and stuff amiright)  in BFA it feels like every class plays like a character in a moba. Nothing feels fluid, its nothing but a jerk fest and wtf did they do to hunters. I main'ed a hunter in legion and at this point in bfa it wouldn't bother me if they erased the class from the game, its horrid (BM is forgivable but not by much). I'm ranting now but yeah azerite armor feels like a first pass at a new system. I watched one of Preach's videos on azerite armor and if blizz would have used some of the ideas mentioned in his video it would have been alot better. Not to give Preach too much credit but the improvements he mentions seem like there should have been a obvious better system than they are now.  BTW I have found that taking away a classes 4 piece (and unique mog) from raids greatly diminishes every possible reason to even raid. 

P.S. I apologize for what I wrote but BFA has almost became a Trigger for me. Standing in the middle of a crowded place, maybe the town fair, someone  whispers B. F..A.  10 minutes later. I'm the breaking news segment on FOX.

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3 hours ago, Lawrenz said:

I like the idea, people in other threads brought up, that the weekly chest should just drop 1az and 1 normal item. or add a probability for an AZ item, to drop additionaly to the 1 item you get. It would easy to change it to this right now. But hopefully they will change everything with AZgear and drops and so on in a greater scale.

I would prefer 3 choose-able loots (1 az gear, 1 wep/trinket, 1 normal gear) 1 az gear for every week is too much az gear after 2 to 3 months play time. Our bags r full with az gears. If we r allow to choose between the loot it still maintain 1 item per week as well as less rng on loots. We can always go for the best piece out of 3. 

Edited by rahnaddonerisal

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3 hours ago, Sholto said:

edit: also, can't that 340 AZ gear forge upwards that same as any other piece of gear?   If I can get a 350 or 355 upgrade roll on a blue or 340 piece re-running Mythics for 340 gear opens this possibility, no?  Or point me to the blue post that explicitly precludes AZ gear from upgrade rolls.

Azerite items cannot upgrade. Weapon slots can only warforge (up to +10) but not Titanforge. It's not a blue post but https://www.wowhead.com/gearing-up-in-battle-for-azeroth

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4 hours ago, Sholto said:


This is neither unique to AZ gear or this expansion.  Anyone who actually looks at performance and not ilvl, who would run sims on their class+spec will not always be running the highest ilvl pieces that might be in their bag.  A higher ilvl piece is only an automatic upgrade for simps.  And that's not new.  That's always been the case since the simps even started paying attention to item level and there were addons created to track it and superficially judge other players by it.

That's not to say it's not been frustrating this whole time to raiders, but the simple fact is, it's often been the case that sometimes oddly itemized blue gear, one or two tier prior set bonuses, etc. have had enough synergy with abilities or specs and either synthetic bonuses or extreme reliance on certain secondary stats has made them the right choice to equip from a pure performance standpoint, item level be damned.  

Explaining that might not win you a spot in a PUG run by a simp, but if you're running with guildies everyone should just wear what works best and get over it.  If you can clear stuff a trash talker in higher ilvl can't then you still win, and they don't even know what they don't know and they'll either figure it out one day or they'll always be bad.

edit: also, can't that 340 AZ gear forge upwards that same as any other piece of gear?   If I can get a 350 or 355 upgrade roll on a blue or 340 piece re-running Mythics for 340 gear opens this possibility, no?  Or point me to the blue post that explicitly precludes AZ gear from upgrade rolls.

Everything here is correct except for the forging AZ gear part. As someone point out, Azerite gear can't upgrade and will always drop as shown.

The other big thing I want to call out on, is that everyone is crying for the return of sets again. First off, this is the first raid and we wouldn't have had sets here anyways... Second, idk how people can complain about not getting Azerite gear in mythics, then also say it means we should have sets back because you can't... get sets in M+ anyways. So that 380 piece you just got in M+ may be worthless, because you would need to break a 350 set which is a dps loss.

 

Ilvl is so... arbitrary especially as secondary stats become more important while primary stats become less important  as time goes on in the xpac

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Im so pissed of by Blizzard and they new crappy systems that i just left the game after 1 month witch is ....

First of all the whole Azerite system is BORING and STUPID! Your reason was that Tier sets locks 4 slots of gear witch never change.Uhmm?! How many slots Azerite gear + neck locks ? Nice logic.

Example:

My BiS Az gear drops from dungeons BUT as you all know i cannot farm it above 340, because ... reasons! So i did my M+10 on first week and guess what... i get 385 Azerite helm and guess what... my 340 bis trait helm sims much more than my new 385 ilvl so +45ilvl upgr is not upgr for me! Fun times!!! So what is my chance to actually get Azerite gear upgrade at all ?

Lets not even mention other "amazing" systems like Expeditions, Warfronts and Uldir where i need nothing at all from the loot table.

What about you take from us Artifact Weapons(with traits and artiafct skill), Tier sets, Legendary Weapons and gave us passive and boring azerite crap gear.You were too lazy to add at least level 120 talants.So my character do pretty much the same from level 100 to 120, just the numbers grow bigger.Lets not even mention bugs and tons of other bullshits surrounding this expansion.

Hey at least AH works fine, so i can play the gold making game when im bored.... Oh wait.... 

Fix your game or prepare to lose a majority of your playerbase because your new expansion is SHIT!!!

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7 hours ago, Sholto said:

also, can't that 340 AZ gear forge upwards that same as any other piece of gear?   If I can get a 350 or 355 upgrade roll on a blue or 340 piece re-running Mythics for 340 gear opens this possibility, no?  Or point me to the blue post that explicitly precludes AZ gear from upgrade rolls.

AZ gear can't forge. So even have some dungeon stuff BiS trait (if that even drop, kek) you are forced to use higher ilvl due more primary stat and stamina what is necessary to play end game content as well.

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38 minutes ago, Hypersonic said:

So even have some dungeon stuff BiS trait (if that even drop, kek) you are forced to use higher ilvl due more primary stat and stamina what is necessary to play end game content as well.

Incorrect. For some classes, AZ traits can be worth as much as 45 iLvls over other gear. Based on current sims, a balance druid with, say, 340 Streaking Stars shoulders will have good reason not to upgrade to 385's with Lunar Shrapnel for, say, MOTHER. AZ traits are balanced terribly for some classes. 

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10 hours ago, geofferson said:

Dungeons are a way better source for az gear than Raiding is.

Not beyond 340. M+ doesn't drop AZ gear.

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Blizz keep trying to reinvent the wheel (and I don't blame them, WoW is rather old now) and seem to fail each time. We have to have these stupid trait systems because character progression ends at lvl100. Hell, you don't get anything new in your spellbook after like lvl85. What they need to do is have all the Azerite traits available on a separate talent tab and let you pick what you want, out of all of them, with X AP giving Y talent points. Being so reliant on RNG and having to wear stuff 40 ilvls lower than what you're looting because you rolled lucky BIS traits is counter intuitive to character progression. Sure. Some traits are miles ahead of others but it's the same with normal talents - compare Mirror Image to RoP for an arcane mage.

They quite clearly demand that we have something to endlessly grind away at for the sake of their player retention statistics and sub-count. That isn't going away. But they can give us the boring AP grind without it having such horrendous "choices" to make.

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11 hours ago, Hypersonic said:

Yeah was funny to see this morning Method sought a Temple +10 key by Deepshades instead of progress.

Limit just beat fetid!

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18 hours ago, Aegrotat said:

...
The other big thing I want to call out on, is that everyone is crying for the return of sets again. First off, this is the first raid and we wouldn't have had sets here anyways... 


Since when?  To be fair, this is the first expansion since Cata that I've even been playing this long in, so if the first raid tier not having a set somehow got normalized then, hell yeah, that needs to change, because the better half of this game's life has had every tier level, even half tier levels, come with a set, with sometimes multiple pre-raid dungeon sets, which, I guess the AZ gear sorta qualifies for.

But Blizz not being able to balance gear, spec, set bonuses and following a pendulum swing between OP and UP, if you were lucky and not just neglected, is nothing new either.  Beta has never informed balance in this game and class mechanics seems to be the least "with it" group in the Blizz devel hierarchy.

Edited by Sholto

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16 hours ago, Hypersonic said:

AZ gear can't forge. So even have some dungeon stuff BiS trait (if that even drop, kek) you are forced to use higher ilvl due more primary stat and stamina what is necessary to play end game content as well.

No.  That's the point, you aren't forced to use higher ilvl stuff.  At least not if you're DPS.  If a lower ilvl AZ trait give you better performance than higher primary stat then you are a fool to equip the higher ilvl piece, if you know this to be the case and just ignorant if you don't know which is worth more performance.

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5 hours ago, Sholto said:


Since when?  To be fair, this is the first expansion since Cata that I've even been playing this long in, so if the first raid tier not having a set somehow got normalized then, hell yeah, that needs to change, because the better half of this game's life has had every tier level, even half tier levels, come with a set, with sometimes multiple pre-raid dungeon sets, which, I guess the AZ gear sorta qualifies for.

But Blizz not being able to balance gear, spec, set bonuses and following a pendulum swing between OP and UP, if you were lucky and not just neglected, is nothing new either.  Beta has never informed balance in this game and class mechanics seems to be the least "with it" group in the Blizz devel hierarchy.

Emerald Nightmare in Legion had no set bonuses and honestly that was fine. The problem still stands that sets, while SOMETIMES offering cool changes to a spec, restrict your gear. It sucked getting a piece 20 iLvls above what you have, and not being able to use it because it breaks your set.

And honestly all this talk of imbalance is so pointless. The classes aren't either 100 or 25 like people seem to treat them. Sure there are DEFINITELY some under performing, but the majority of the pack isn't even 2k dps separated. Considering how damn hard it is to balance a game, especially one as big as wow, that's pretty damn good. Especially since those numbers hardly matter if you aren't mythic raiding or pushing the highest keystones because... In normal and even heroic you can get by. Also beta would work better if people actually reported things, but you'd be surprised at how little gets tested in a player controlled beta.

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In normal or Heroic you can faceroll with crafted and lucky roll questing blues.  But I still say have your set to go AFK by the mailboxes, if that's how you get your jollies, and have your set to do work and just do work and don't worry about what you've got on or in your bags if pixels are hitting the dirt.  The same complaints get boring after even a few years.

edit: I also remember that tier feeling kinda tacked on and not getting a lot of interest when it was current.  At least on my realm.  People felt a little cheated after ICC.  This is hardly a moving exception, and to prove what I'm not exactly sure anyhow.

Edited by Sholto

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    • By Starym
      It's time to poke our friends over at exceL and get some hints and tips for Mythic+! It's up to you guys to dig up all the interesting info and ask the right questions, whether it's about the recent MDI Invitational, Mythic+ in general or even next season's new Reaping affix!
      As you'll remember, they rose all the way to the top in this year's Mythic Dungeon Invitational and claimed the grand prize, as well as more recently participated in the MDI All Stars Invitational at BlizzCon earlier this month and the org itself has been a core part of the scene built around multiple games since 2014, fielding teams in League of Legends, Street Fighter V, and more.
      Tthe Mythic+ team consists of Divinefield, Cirra, Ashine, Dorullkjell and Herudra, so submit your questions right here in the comments over the next 7 days and the awesome players of exceL's Angels will answer when we collect all of them.
      Have any questions for the M+ team? Come and ask them!