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Starym

Rextroy Banned for a Month - Update: Unbanned!

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TJAuI4t.jpg
 

Update: it seems the whole thing was a misunderstanding:

You can also check out his thoughts on the whole thing in our interview.

Blizzard LogoYthisens (source)

As a reminder, posting about account actions is generally not allowed on the forums and it is not a means to appeal or resolve issues. This was resolved privately between this player and us after the video he posted this morning.

Just pulling back the curtain a little here but long story short, this was a mistake on our end. This player actually has a great history of reporting issues with us that they've found, and they wait for us to verify it's fixed before they put the videos up. This was a case of not everyone internally knowing this was happening and that the exploits he showcased were fixed, before the videos were posted.

The videos being posted are an example of great bug reporting in how detailed they are in showing how exactly to reproduce an issue. This is something Ion hit on in the last Q&A where he talked about the Quality Assurance team and how they have to reproduce issues that players report to us. Sometimes reports aren't detailed enough and it makes it a little harder to figure out some issues.

I just want to end this by plugging the correct channels to report bugs in.
To report a bug in-game:
  • Click Help to open the Customer Support window.
    Click Submit Bug.
    Enter the details of the bug, making sure to follow the guidelines outlined on the submission form.
    Click Submit.

You can also report bugs over in the Bug Reporting Forum here:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/1012660/

If you'd like to report something like an exploit and not advertise it, a way you can report that it is here:
https://us.blizzard.com/en-us/submit/hacks.html
 
09/25/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Rosefina
Previously explained that e-mail is for questions about joining the MVP program not feedback and complaints.

Code not being enforced is entirely up to Blizzard as you can see here they're keeping threads open that violate forum rules as stated by you and the lounge

This is not the case at all on any point that you've made. The MVPs@blizzard.com email address is for any and all concerns regarding the MVPs. Please stop trying to spread false information in threads.

 

Updated.
Well this is a little sad, or great depending on your outlook - Rextroy, the Paladin who recently soloed both MOTHER and Vectis in Uldir (with Vecits taking all of 0.5 seconds) with very, very creative use of game mechanics, got banned for a month. The Vectis kill in particular seemed to be a sore spot, as it got him reported many times, but there's still no word from Blizzard on what specific incident caused the ban.

 

Check out Rextroy's thoughts on the matter below and check back later in the week when we'll be posting an in-depth interview with the new solo king (or rather, highest profile soloer at the moment), focusing on the exploit/creative use of game mechanics dichotomy.

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This is how you create good player experience.

Release an early beta as a complete game - ban people for publicly showing (and reporting) bugs you've missed¬Į\_(„ÉĄ)_/¬Į

Edited by Kuarinofu
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While this is a creative way, it's absolutely an abuse on purpose and therefore an exploit. Even if it is funny how he did it, i think there is no room to argue in another way. The "dmg" it caused is neglectable, so 1 month seems a bit unfair. But still....exloiting stays at it is. If someone would have done this in mythic race, eventually there would be a lifetime ban.

 

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To be honest he deserves the ban. While he was certainly creative in his methods, he's essentially just exploiting mechanics to get these kills. Not only this, but for the mother video (haven't seen the vectis one) he essentially writes out a step by step guide to reproducing the exploit enabling a whole host of people to abuse this. I agree too, a month ban for this is a bit lenient. 

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5 minutes ago, Kuarinofu said:

This is how you create good player experience.

Release an early beta as a complete game - ban people for publicly showing (and reporting) bugs you've missed¬Į\_(„ÉĄ)_/¬Į

Regardless of how buggy the game is, an exploit is still an exploit and there should be consequences for going against the terms of service that you agreed to the moment you installed the game. I won't say he deserved a month ban but if they had done nothing it would've just come off as being bias because he's a youtuber.

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22 minutes ago, Durf24 said:

I won't say he deserved a month ban but if they had done nothing it would've just come off as being bias because he's a youtuber.

I would go one step further and say that he got a whole month because he has an audience. It's not only a deterence to keep people from using the shown exploits but also to keep people from publicly sharing exploits. 

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51 minutes ago, Allseye said:

The "dmg" it caused is neglectable

AT least he was moral in reporting the bug, I'm pretty sure if it was anyone else they would have gone through Mythic Uldir and one-two shot the bosses. That bug was immensely powerful!

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I keep hearing people say that he should be banned because he used an exploit and mechanics to make the kill. An exploit is a flaw in the system that you use maliciously for gain. I'm sure that's not the case here or he wouldn't have posted it on youtube, so no reason to ban him for an exploit. We all use mechanics to beat bosses, including not standing in fire, spell stealing powerful buffs, tranq on the enrages, etc.  That's how the game is played, by using all of the mechanics available to us. He just took it further than most because he thinks more outside the box. Saying that he used mechanics and that's bad is like saying eating chemicals is bad. Because everything is chemicals, and everything in the game is mechanics. 

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Blizzard is 100% in the wrong.

An exploit isn’t a hack.  He used all available tools for the full retail release, no 3rd party software, no botting, no code variation(s) or anything that any single person could not have done.

If they want to roll back an achievement, loot or even give him a full lockout for the week fine.  I have zero issue with an exploit being reversed.  

Banning someone because of a developer mistake, lets face it this is one of those things that’s bad development, is horrible PR.  

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Uncommon Patron

Yea that's no good, Blizz should reverse that. He reported the bug and did it for fun, take the loot, achievements, whatever away but the guy didn't deserve a ban. He only got it because people reported him and I'm sure an automated system got all the checks it needed to executed the ban.

Hope they revert this decision - he didn't deserve a month long ban.

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It's funny that 10+ years after the Corrupted Blood incident people can still exploit mechanics by zoning in to different areas with your buff/debuff on. Yes - it may have been an exploit, but Blizzard is only making a clown of himself by banning the guy, who discovered how shitty their buff/debuff system works. Maybe just reset all beneficial effects on characters when they enter a new area (except XP, food and flask buffs)? Nah, too easy - let's keep nerfing prot pals and ban players for using the warlock summon spell to slay a boss 10 seconds after you fought fierce hozens in the open world. Will I get banned too if I find similar mechanics that are working as intended only in certain zones?

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1 hour ago, Durf24 said:

Regardless of how buggy the game is, an exploit is still an exploit and there should be consequences for going against the terms of service that you agreed to the moment you installed the game. I won't say he deserved a month ban but if they had done nothing it would've just come off as being bias because he's a youtuber.

They should've just given him a day ban (or react in other ways) to show that this is not the proper way to handle bugs (if they think so) and he might get banned for more if he continues to do so. Instead, they just made an example out of him, so now wow players will be more cautious about posting such things.

I used to dig bugs myself and share them publicly for Defense of the Ancients WC3 mod from 2009 for around 5 years (after DotA lost it's popularity when most players switched to Dota 2) and people actually sent me some bugs and exploits to gain some public attention and get them fixed asap. Well, I guess their reaction was more related to the Terms of Service or something, but this situation still feels bitter.

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I don't believe they should have banned him.  There is a long standing argument of what is an exploitation in video games and different people believe different things.  If you can do the "exploit" within the framework of the game... then I believe that is a bug.  If you are using external code or an external program... then that is an exploit.  You don't have to agree with me, but that's how I frame it.

Plenty of games have had bugs or systems that were exploited and they eventually became part of the emergent gameplay.  Skiing in Tribes was originally an exploit but the game designers embraced it and the game was made the better for it.  Rocket jumping was also considered an exploit but has now become standard practice in many 1st and 3rd person shooters.

I don't think what he was doing would ever come to be "emergent gameplay" either.   This is a tough one.

He exploited game mechanics.  A game mechanic exploit is not a bug really either.  It is just something that is working as designed but outside the scope of what Blizzard intended.  If Blizzard didn't think of all the ways people could use their "working as designed" mechanics... then you would think they would reward creative people who help them learn about their own system.

Companies outside of the video game industry have bug bounty systems in place to reward those who can help them find exploits and vulnerabilities in their software.  Why is it different here?

Edited by jomammie

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Quote

 

49 minutes ago, Misuteri said:

Blizzard is 100% in the wrong.

An exploit isn’t a hack.  He used all available tools for the full retail release, no 3rd party software, no botting, no code variation(s) or anything that any single person could not have done.

If they want to roll back an achievement, loot or even give him a full lockout for the week fine.  I have zero issue with an exploit being reversed.  

Banning someone because of a developer mistake, lets face it this is one of those things that’s bad development, is horrible PR.

Hi,

I have to say you are the one who 100%(or at least 90%) wrong with the above statement. In terms of Blizzard, for cases like this, there are 2 approach:

1. everything works as intended, but you used it in a way, that the developers did not expect -> clever use of game mechamnism
2. something not works as it should be, and you used this -> bug -> if used it for own advantage then ->exploit

These 2 solo kills, however very clever by the way, these are bugs: both based on transfering a buff or debuff between different zones. It's hard to defend these as "works as intended".

2nd question is that, if he exploited these bugs. 
- is he deleted loots received by these kills or used them(we don't know)?
- is he loaded the videos to his youtube chanel, where he get $ from the views(i think answer is yes for this)?

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Dude did an exploit to get likes on youtube, upset he got a ban? Deserved, he knew what he was doing was wrong.  He made a video and basically opened doors for others to do the same and now he gets what he deserves. 

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The guy is publicaly reporting bugs.

Some companies are hiring such kind of people to find flows in their softwares.

Rextroy was doing if for free for Blizzard and gets banned. Sounds wrong.

Probably Blizzard want to teach a lesson that becoming famous by showing exploits may create a mindset where exploits are becoming ''cool'' and they don't want to see this happening. 

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Homeboy was using the exploit in open world pvp.  In that regard, it's a shame it was only a 30 day

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4X5gEte4Yc

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Before another person rights that blizzard is in the wrong think of this. You have already agreed with Bblizzard that their actions are acceptable because you all agreed to those terms and conditions that you didn't read

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He wasn't reporting a bug. He was using an exploit to solo a boss. The video was interesting, but his subsequent use of the exploit after the first video and even worse, in open world pvp, makes it obvious that his purpose wasn't to report a bug.

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3 hours ago, Proderic said:

I keep hearing people say that he should be banned because he used an exploit and mechanics to make the kill. An exploit is a flaw in the system that you use maliciously for gain. I'm sure that's not the case here or he wouldn't have posted it on youtube, so no reason to ban him for an exploit. We all use mechanics to beat bosses, including not standing in fire, spell stealing powerful buffs, tranq on the enrages, etc.  That's how the game is played, by using all of the mechanics available to us. He just took it further than most because he thinks more outside the box. Saying that he used mechanics and that's bad is like saying eating chemicals is bad. Because everything is chemicals, and everything in the game is mechanics. 

That is the most retarted thing I have read today.

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4 hours ago, jinsu2301 said:

I would go one step further and say that he got a whole month because he has an audience. It's not only a deterence to keep people from using the shown exploits but also to keep people from publicly sharing exploits. 

The immediate hot fix is the most effective deterrence to anyone going through the effort of duplicating his effort and ingenuity.  The ban was entirely unnecessary.

Blizzard's lack of humor in the cleverness of its user base, as well as the class and ability mechanic engineers being behind the curve of the highest level of player has always been a curiosity when it shows its ugly head like this.

Edited by Sholto

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11 hours ago, Tazrul said:

To be honest he deserves the ban. While he was certainly creative in his methods, he's essentially just exploiting mechanics to get these kills. Not only this, but for the mother video (haven't seen the vectis one) he essentially writes out a step by step guide to reproducing the exploit enabling a whole host of people to abuse this. I agree too, a month ban for this is a bit lenient. 

No he dosent enable it for ppl becouse before posting videos he always writes to blizz and w8 till they fix the bug and only after it he uploads vids

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      One topic that hasn’t appeared in our posts about the PTR, but is worth briefly discussing: so far, we’re not planning to heavily change Glimmer of Light in 8.2.
      Outline of some relevant facts as we see them:
      The Glimmer build is a significant ‚Äúflip‚ÄĚ from the otherwise standard build. It changes talents (Holy Avenger , Crusader's Might , and no Avenging Crusader ), as well as stat priorities. It is a fun and unique build to play, with a lot of player agency in manipulating Glimmer spread and timing. It is a bit rotationally ‚Äúbroken‚ÄĚ but not completely. The biggest concern is that Crusader Strike has a very high priority, which makes mana much less important. Holy Paladin moved up in meters in high-skill contexts (Mythic) since the build became popular, but not drastically. There is a lot of pressure to obtain specific Azerite pieces because of widespread recommendations to play the build. A few minor concerns worth mentioning: It‚Äôs unideal that Infusion-buffed Flash of Light is sometimes skipped, the high amount of Glimmer in the breakdown devalues Int, and the playstyle is more similar to other healers than it is to traditionalHoly Paladin. Philosophically, when we add customizable systems and bonuses to the game, some player-discovered experience is exactly the sort of thing we‚Äôre hoping will happen. Even when we didn‚Äôt anticipate all the details of an optimized build‚ÄĒarguably especially when we didn‚Äôt anticipate all the details‚ÄĒit produces a chance for players to explore something cool and rewarding. Almost by definition, those situations are at least slightly imbalanced or slightly broken, which is acceptable as long as they‚Äôre not too imbalanced or too broken.
      There’s a balance where cutting off the exploration too early ruins the fun of discovering it, but letting it go on too long gets to a point where players are less excited by the novelty of the new build and more bothered by imbalances or rotational problems. We want to keep an eye on that, but the preliminary look for 8.2 is that this is still a lively setup that people are excited to play. Any change would likely be a small tweak that’s not intended to change its status as a popular or recommended playstyle.
      In the longer term, if we wanted to preserve this mechanic in the class in some way, we would have to solve some of the above issues in the process, especially the very low mana demands. But that’s something we can revisit later.
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