Starym

Azerite Improvement Followup Clarifications

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39705-big-azerite-trait-tuning-september
 

After yesterday's big announcement on how the devs plan to make the divisive Azerite armor system better we have some new info clarifying some of the questions left by the announced improvements.

Blizzard LogoAzerite Improvements Followup (source)

Got a couple additional notes from the development team based on your initial responses:

  • When Siege of Zuldazar opens, loot from other sources will also increase in quality. So BfA Season 2 PvP rewards will have 5 rings, as well as M+ drops from existing dungeons, etc. Those rewards will be higher ilvl to reflect the new season. The change isn’t retroactive (items you already have won't be upgraded), but basically all endgame loot will have 5 rings once we’re in Season 2.
  • Emissary Azerite armor still scales with your item level - it's not just a flat increase. The goal is to make sure that if you have a high item level, regardless of the source of that gear (raiding, PvP, M+, etc.), you have a reliable source of comparable Azerite rewards.
  • The reason we chose Emissaries for this is that it's an issue affecting a wide range of players, not just those who are clearing Mythic+ dungeons. Adding them to Mythic+ would indeed be a great solution if you're a player who's already focused on completing high-level keystones, but doesn't really help people who just want to stick to raiding or PvP. Emissaries are accessible to everyone.
  • 370 is just the current Azerite cap for the hotfix we're working on. When Season 2 begins and the overall quality of rewards goes up, that cap will increase.

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Azerite armor system is so ho hum compared to Legion's artifact system. Don't know why they dumped that for this Azerite snorefest

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1 hour ago, Starym said:

 

  • The reason we chose Emissaries for this is that it's an issue affecting a wide range of players, not just those who are clearing Mythic+ dungeons. Adding them to Mythic+ would indeed be a great solution if you're a player who's already focused on completing high-level keystones, but doesn't really help people who just want to stick to raiding or PvP. Emissaries are accessible to everyone.

I mean, this makes sense but why the hell does blizzard think devaluing one of the most successful aspects of WoW today (M+) is going to make the playerbase happy? Seriously, just add azerite to both. I don't get why they can't accept and acknowledge that M+ is actually a valuable aspect of the game now.

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43 minutes ago, Maxkitty said:

Seriously, just add azerite to both. I don't get why they can't accept and acknowledge that M+ is actually a valuable aspect of the game now.

You can get ALL OTHER TYPES OF PIECES from M+ - all of them.  Theyre gating these behind Emissaries, not some Mythic raiding requirement, its not hard, its not even tedious, because it takes a few minutes to complete each one.  It's easier to grind these after the update than Raid level gear.  Seven per week (emissary) vs 1per week, maybe 2-3 if you can stomach LFR or do other raid levels... 

Edited by PatrickHenry
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So after they can't balance 4 rings pieces in next "season" comes 5 rings. Hm.. more rings mean for me only more grindig for that 1 piece what will be usable. 

 

2 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

You can get ALL OTHER TYPES OF PIECES from M+ - all of them.  Theyre gating these behind Emissaries, not some Mythic raiding requirement, its not hard, its not even tedious, because it takes a few minutes to complete each one.  It's easier to grind these after the update than Raid level gear.  Seven per week (emissary) vs 1per week, maybe 2-3 if you can stomach LFR or do other raid levels... 

Whole expansion around Azerite pieces and simple ridiculous you can't get it from M+. This is the real fact.. Because u don't like it or I don't know yet thats not mean it's something idea from the devil. (You flame everywhere against even the idea). And really illogical when they refuse to get gear from one of the most popular content in the game. And overall I don't understand, even they love M+ (MDI) and just do this with us, like ignore the that content or keep on casual level. I already said that even that would be cool if you get Azerite from M+ if you do for example 5 +10/week or something just give some chance at least besides the chest.

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2 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

Seven per week (emissary) vs 1per week, maybe 2-3 if you can stomach LFR or do other raid levels... 

You're misunderstanding.. They're not adding Azerite as a potential drop from every emissary, they're saying that WHEN the emissary is an Azerite Armor cache, those will go up to 370 instead of the 340 they cap at now:

"The plan is to make Azerite Armor rewards from Emissary quests scale all the way up to 370"

So it's a step in the right direction, but it's not like you're going to be getting a 370 azerite piece every day, or even every week.  You'll have to wait until a cache is randomly up.

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4 hours ago, Maxkitty said:

I mean, this makes sense but why the hell does blizzard think devaluing one of the most successful aspects of WoW today (M+) is going to make the playerbase happy? Seriously, just add azerite to both. I don't get why they can't accept and acknowledge that M+ is actually a valuable aspect of the game now.

I think you are not taking into account their rational of not including Azerite Gears in M+. They are saying if they allow Azerite Gears to drop from M+, people will be forced to farm it to the end to get the gears the want. This will inevitably create problems like they had in Legion with Legendaries (you know, doing every available content to get a chance at a legendary). They want to keep Azerite gear drops that they can control the amount of Azerite gears people are getting while maintaining their accessibility to everyone play all types of contents (most of whom are playing M+ like you have mentioned).

 

Honestly, I do think Blizz have a point with that logic tho.  That being said, it should be easier to get Azerite gears (esp the ones we want). Trait stacking is the most fun I had on WoW since WotLK. It also really help me feel like I am building the character instead of just playing a template the whole game since I am only equipping higher ilvl most of the time. Like each piece of gear means to me, not because of it sims high or it has some insubstantial increase in dmg through minor secondary stats, but it changes (at least the good ones) the rotation and make your character more special than just changing specialty or talents. Also feel like you invest in those specialties as opposed to changing it too easily, not in terms of gold, but in terms of itemization. 



Anyone knows if this means we can potentially 6 stack some traits? (tho most likely there won't be duplicate of the same trait on the same traits) Even if it is only 3 stack max, it would help stacking 3 traits really good. Like some traits really suck with 1 or 2 traits but can explode with a 3rd one. 

Edited by Mocha
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1 hour ago, vorpalbladebb said:
4 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

Seven per week (emissary) vs 1per week, maybe 2-3 if you can stomach LFR or do other raid levels... 

You're misunderstanding.. They're not adding Azerite as a potential drop from every emissary, they're saying that WHEN the emissary is an Azerite Armor cache, those will go up to 370 instead of the 340 they cap at now:

"The plan is to make Azerite Armor rewards from Emissary quests scale all the way up to 370"

So it's a step in the right direction, but it's not like you're going to be getting a 370 azerite piece every day, or even every week.  You'll have to wait until a cache is randomly up.

Yeah plus that 370 will be the new 340, so the full basic gear.

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1 hour ago, Mocha said:

I think you are not taking into account their rational of not including Azerite Gears in M+. They are saying if they allow Azerite Gears to drop from M+, people will be forced to farm it to the end to get the gears the want. This will inevitably create problems like they had in Legion with Legendaries (you know, doing every available content to get a chance at a legendary). They want to keep Azerite gear drops that they can control the amount of Azerite gears people are getting while maintaining their accessibility to everyone play all types of contents (most of whom are playing M+ like you have mentioned).

 

Honestly, I do think Blizz have a point with that logic tho.  That being said, it should be easier to get Azerite gears (esp the ones we want). Trait stacking is the most fun I had on WoW since WotLK. It also really help me feel like I am building the character instead of just playing a template the whole game since I am only equipping higher ilvl most of the time. Like each piece of gear means to me, not because of it sims high or it has some insubstantial increase in dmg through minor secondary stats, but it changes (at least the good ones) the rotation and make your character more special than just changing specialty or talents. Also feel like you invest in those specialties as opposed to changing it too easily, not in terms of gold, but in terms of itemization. 



Anyone knows if this means we can potentially 6 stack some traits? (tho most likely there won't be duplicate of the same trait on the same traits) Even if it is only 3 stack max, it would help stacking 3 traits really good. Like some traits really suck with 1 or 2 traits but can explode with a 3rd one. 

I didn't think about it like that, but now that you mention it, it makes sense. I just think it devalues running M+ a little too much, even if you can get lots of other gear from it. But, I was likely far too harsh with my criticism. Emissaries is a smart thing to put the fix into, especially because it helps EVERYONE, not just M+'ers or raiders, or even casuals.

As for the possible trait stacking, I'm quite positive that the 2 spec rows will always have different traits to each other. Giving it a chance to have the same trait could break the fix they want; that is, a system where most traits are relatively equal in value. If they make items have a chance to have the same trait, there may be more traits that are undervalued. If they can't be the same, it gives a higher amount of variability, which will result in a wider variety of traits being used. I think that's where Blizzard is probably trying to go with the system.

Edited by Maxkitty
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2 hours ago, Maxkitty said:

I didn't think about it like that, but now that you mention it, it makes sense. I just think it devalues running M+ a little too much, even if you can get lots of other gear from it. But, I was likely far too harsh with my criticism. Emissaries is a smart thing to put the fix into, especially because it helps EVERYONE, not just M+'ers or raiders, or even casuals.

As for the possible trait stacking, I'm quite positive that the 2 spec rows will always have different traits to each other. Giving it a chance to have the same trait could break the fix they want; that is, a system where most traits are relatively equal in value. If they make items have a chance to have the same trait, there may be more traits that are undervalued. If they can't be the same, it gives a higher amount of variability, which will result in a wider variety of traits being used. I think that's where Blizzard is probably trying to go with the system.

1

I think so too. I don't feel like I always have to push M+ for anything. LIke yeah i get more loots, but only real upgrade i can get is stat optimization through rings and trinkets. I think they should include some sort of Azerite gear benefits for M+. It is the only end game content with no chance of azerite gear benefit beyond 340. 

PvP has token systems that can upgrade  Azerite gears (though TBF it is once per reaching certain rank so not totally repeatable)+ Weekly Cache (Which btw only drops PvP gears so it is relatively small pool of gears. making it easier to get the desired gear).

But M+ has weekly cache with a chance to get something from a pool of 100+ azerite gears. And it is one of the key end-game feature adored by many (albeit buggy). They aren't fixing that. I mean they should at least implement the upgrade token system for M+ too. That way, making progression will give something valuable. and it doesn't have to be random, but the player choice. Idk I am just spitballing here. 

 

Yeah I think they probably won't have any duplicate traits in the same group. But it will still make 3 stacking easier. 
I think they should make it easier to triple stack.

If they are really making most traits equal, then why care if I want to have fun with it. 

More likely though, there is always going to be hierarchy of traits because theres always going to be simming and stat priorities and class mechanics that gives one trait more advantage over the other.

So that is why they are discouraging stacking. Because they can't balance all traits to all classes (that have different stat prio and class mechanics) with relatively balanced for 1, 2, or 3 stacks of traits being synergistically powerful (like Snake-eyes for Outlaw Rogues. its first stack is relatively low dps increase compared to other 1 stacks. But its 2 stack is middle of the pack compared to other 2 stacks. And 3 stacks, it becomes one of the top dps increase trait for outlaw (not taking into account the Reorigination Arrary).) So they just eliminated the need for balancing for 3 stacks by making it next-to-impossible to get them. 

Idk I just wanna have fun. Make it easier to get 3 stack and balance it around 2 or 3 stacks of each traits instead of 1 or 2 stack. That is my suggestion for balancing. Its more fun that way.

 

Edited by Mocha
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6 hours ago, Hypersonic said:

And really illogical when they refuse to get gear from one of the most popular content in the game

It'd be nice if those that ran mythics actually ran them successfully instead of leaving after wiping once.

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9 hours ago, Hypersonic said:

Yeah plus that 370 will be the new 340, so the full basic gear.

That's what everyone is getting wrong right now. I mean, okay, your comment is right, but the azerite will scale even higher. If you read the clarification post very careful it says:

 

15 hours ago, Starym said:

Blizzard LogoAzerite Improvements Followup (source)

(...)
  • 370 is just the current Azerite cap for the hotfix we're working on. When Season 2 begins and the overall quality of rewards goes up, that cap will increase.

The noteworthy thing is the "hotfix we're working on". So the scaling up to 370 part will come soon, probably in this or the next week. And then it says, when 370 ist the new 340 they will scale it up again, as far as i understand this.

Seems like a fine immediate reaction to the current drop issue for me, so it still won't be infinitely farmable.

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27 minutes ago, Lawrenz said:

That's what everyone is getting wrong right now. I mean, okay, your comment is right, but the azerite will scale even higher. If you read the clarification post very careful it says:

 

The noteworthy thing is the "hotfix we're working on". So the scaling up to 370 part will come soon, probably in this or the next week. And then it says, when 370 ist the new 340 they will scale it up again, as far as i understand this.

Seems like a fine immediate reaction to the current drop issue for me, so it still won't be infinitely farmable.

Oh, okay, but I'm pretty sure they will not increase the cap to 370 in 8.0.1. I can't believe that. 

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5 hours ago, Myke said:

It'd be nice if those that ran mythics actually ran them successfully instead of leaving after wiping once.

I don't really know how much is the leaving rate in average keys, I play 11-13 right now where yeah it's a basic attitude to leave if the key already depleted by one great wipe because we farm for score not gear. I think it's understandable and not a problem at that level of mythic dungeon, but don't know have a same situation in gearing level dungeons 6-10?

 

Ps.: Yay, sorry failed to quote both in one post

Edited by Hypersonic

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10 hours ago, Mocha said:

I think you are not taking into account their rational of not including Azerite Gears in M+. They are saying if they allow Azerite Gears to drop from M+, people will be forced to farm it to the end to get the gears the want. This will inevitably create problems like they had in Legion with Legendaries (you know, doing every available content to get a chance at a legendary). They want to keep Azerite gear drops that they can control the amount of Azerite gears people are getting while maintaining their accessibility to everyone play all types of contents (most of whom are playing M+ like you have mentioned).

soooo. you say it's good that azerite armor is accessable to everyone. But it's not accessable to everyone. It's "locked" for m+ players. They should be on m+. I'm not a player who does a horrendous amount of m+ a week. I do most likely only 2 - 8 dungeons a week.

Its just stupid to lock it behind some content. It should be on m+ AND on every other content available, so you can play the way you want and get the gear you deserve for doing said content.
If you only do WQ, you wouldn't get a GS over 340 - 350 at best. If you ONLY do m+, because of time issues or you prefer to play with your small group of friends, your gear can range from 345 - 375 EXCEPT azerite armor! That is the problem.
You are forced to go in raids to get some higher itemlevel azerite armor with traits that only really shine in raids.
They could/should add specific azerite items for m+ which give you special boni for doing said content.

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1 hour ago, Nerdkartoffl said:

soooo. you say it's good that azerite armor is accessable to everyone. But it's not accessable to everyone. It's "locked" for m+ players. They should be on m+. I'm not a player who does a horrendous amount of m+ a week. I do most likely only 2 - 8 dungeons a week.

Its just stupid to lock it behind some content. It should be on m+ AND on every other content available, so you can play the way you want and get the gear you deserve for doing said content.
If you only do WQ, you wouldn't get a GS over 340 - 350 at best. If you ONLY do m+, because of time issues or you prefer to play with your small group of friends, your gear can range from 345 - 375 EXCEPT azerite armor! That is the problem.
You are forced to go in raids to get some higher itemlevel azerite armor with traits that only really shine in raids.
They could/should add specific azerite items for m+ which give you special boni for doing said content.

Are you sure you have really thought about it and are not just throwing goo on the wall to see what sticks?

Increasing Azerite ilvl rewards from Emissary quests precisely meets the requirement that it will be available to everyone. You base your entire, rather immature, argument on the presumed fact that if "you ONLY do WQ, you wouldn't get a GS over 340 - 350". Excuse me, who actually does ONLY WQ? That is simply a false statement. It is exactly this which makes your post SEEM immature - that is just for non-constructive complaining purposes. 


They inserted higher Azerite rewards  into Emissary because those are EASILY AVAILABLE to everyone, precisely because of their accessibility and feasibility. M+ does not meet these requirements. It is also because of this that you can continue playing however you want (because it will take you 5 minutes to complete this - in contrast to m+) and still have a degree of access to higher ilvl Azerite gear. This is assuming they increase the frequency of Azerite item Emissary reward. 


If you cannot see the distinction between azerite from Emissaries and M+ and thus Blizzard's rationale for doing so, then I suggest you take a step back, take a deep breath and then rethink it again. 
 

P.S. I believe that from what Blizzard announced, they will definitely increase the AZ reward from Emissaries in 8.0.1. This is pretty clear, since it will still scale with your ilvl. 

Edited by Gilifire

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2 hours ago, Hypersonic said:

Oh, okay, but I'm pretty sure they will not increase the cap to 370 in 8.0.1. I can't believe that. 

Why not though? I mean we can access Azerite gear that high anyways through weekly cache, raid IDs or worldboss on warfront. The thing with the emmissary reward is, that you need a really high item level to even get it (unlike worldboss, where my twinks immediately get better azerite pieces than my main *sad*). You have to have at least 5 item levels under your goal reward to scale it up that far. That means that only the people having 365 gear will be able to take those items as 370s. My main cant even profit from this change right now, since he is only 363. I would be able to change my 340s to 355s at least.

So i am satisfied with that. It's not a totally random lucky reward, and brings some genuine progression. Looking forward to emmissaries again, hoping for AZ pieces to roll. :))

//edit: and raiders will still get the highest possible gear with 385s, and better farmable items compared to M+ cache drops.

Edited by Lawrenz

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2 hours ago, Nerdkartoffl said:

soooo. you say it's good that azerite armor is accessable to everyone. But it's not accessable to everyone. It's "locked" for m+ players. They should be on m+.

It is restricted by lockouts, just the same as every single other source. Why should M+ spam (like the good old Maw of Souls grind) be different?

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29 minutes ago, Drachar said:

It is restricted by lockouts, just the same as every single other source. Why should M+ spam (like the good old Maw of Souls grind) be different?

exactly. So many people cry for AZ to drop in m+ runs, but they dont think of the problems that would bring.

Players would feel the need to constantly grind those runs, non-stop, to be competetive. The outcry would be even worse.

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2 hours ago, Lawrenz said:

Why not though? I mean we can access Azerite gear that high anyways through weekly cache, raid IDs or worldboss on warfront. The thing with the emmissary reward is, that you need a really high item level to even get it (unlike worldboss, where my twinks immediately get better azerite pieces than my main *sad*). You have to have at least 5 item levels under your goal reward to scale it up that far. That means that only the people having 365 gear will be able to take those items as 370s. My main cant even profit from this change right now, since he is only 363. I would be able to change my 340s to 355s at least.

So i am satisfied with that. It's not a totally random lucky reward, and brings some genuine progression. Looking forward to emmissaries again, hoping for AZ pieces to roll. :))

//edit: and raiders will still get the highest possible gear with 385s, and better farmable items compared to M+ cache drops.

Force people to do Emissaries just would be another mistake. As you are casual (no offense) I can understand you why not get the problem with M+ drop problem, but that's doesn't mean it's not real. Have a total opposite point of view in the layers of the playerbase.

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15 hours ago, Hypersonic said:

Yeah plus that 370 will be the new 340, so the full basic gear.

that literally everyone has the same access to...  and its - in your own words - 30ilvl higher than your 'im stuck at 340' gear. 

Youre still stuck on ILVL.  You can do a normal raid, which is easy as all get out, and have access to what, 355?  

Edited by PatrickHenry

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3 hours ago, Lawrenz said:

It's not a totally random lucky reward, and brings some genuine progression.

exactly.  Just because it doesnt automatically drop X ilvl or scale infinitely to whatever ilvl I want it to scale to, does not mean its not progressively better.

These people stuck on hard Ilvl requirements make me laugh.  

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21 minutes ago, Hypersonic said:

Force people to do Emissaries just would be another mistake. As you are casual (no offense) I can understand you why not get the problem with M+ drop problem, but that's doesn't mean it's not real. Have a total opposite point of view in the layers of the playerbase.

you are not forced to do emmisaries, since you already see the reward you will get. Blizzard changed this exactly for this reason, since you always had to "hope" for legenadaries to drop there. Here you just have to wait, until an acceptable drop appears.

I wouldnt count myself as a casual player, i am just not the raider type. I have my own little group of players and we are rocking M+. I can totally understand the frustration of other players and am not happy about AZ as well, but i always try to make the best of what we have. It's not like Blizzard wants to hurt the fun of players.

They tried to improve on the artifact and legendary system. And failed. And they will improve again. Thats how it goes :'>

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23 hours ago, Hypersonic said:

but don't know have a same situation in gearing level dungeons 6-10?

This is at keystone 2....

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      2nd raid - Fri/Mon 530-800pst
      We ARE one of Skywall's largest and oldest standing guilds! Very active with a large player base. ALWAYS something going on, mythic dungeon runs, normal runs for alts, Island Expeditions, Arathi Highlands Warfront, PVP events.... always something!!!
      Come experience the reason a guild as old as CD continues to stand and stand strong year after year after year! Come...... and get.... CORRUPTED!!!
      Chu#12466 or Deni#1743
    • By Stan
      Blizzard buffed Chain Heal and redesigned High Tide in this week's 8.1 Build 28151.
      UPDATE
      Blizzard (Source)
      Quick update: the buff will have a longer duration in the next build. It is intended to be less of a "press button when it lights up" proc, and more something you can plan to use. This also should take stress off of knowing exactly when it will trigger (which is not something we want the talent to be about micromanaging). Chain Heal
      Received a healing increase, baking in most of the value of the previous High Tide that has been redesigned. High Tide
      OLD: Chain Heal bounces to 1 additional target, and its falloff with each bounce is reduced by half. NEW: Every 150 mana you spend brings a High Tide, making your next 2 Chain Heals heal for an additional 20% and not reduce with each jump. Check out our Tides of Vengeance hub for the latest Patch 8.1 information!
      Blizzard (Source)
      Just to avoid any confusion that may be occurring due to tooltips on PTR: Chain Heal's base functionality is unchanged, other than receiving a large healing increase (roughly speaking, baking in most of the value of the previous High Tide). High Tide is redesigned, but is still a passive--the mana cost in the tooltip header is an error. Brief context: as a passive buff to every Chain Heal, High Tide was putting it in an awkward position where the base skill wasn't very prominent in the toolkit if you used other talents. The goal here is to both put Chain Heal back on the map while using Ascendance or Wellspring in any type of content, and also provide a talent option which allows for strong moments centered around very large Chain Heals.
      Usual PTR disclaimers: still under iteration, open to feedback, not necessarily tuned.
    • By Stan
      Naowh recently cleared Freehold +11 and Atal'Dazar +12 in time with a group of five Blood Death Knights.
      Both keystone runs have been completed with the following affixes active:
      Fortified Bolstering Skittish Infested Freehold Clear (Mythic +11)
      The group completed the run with 5 minutes and 14 seconds remaining (30:46 / 36:00).
      Atal'Dazar Clear (Mythic +12)
      The clear was completed in 29 minutes and 17 seconds.
    • By Stan
      New models for this week's 8.1 PTR build include baby raptors, Mekkatorque, 7th Legion riflemen & Zandalari guards.
      Check out our Tides of Vengeance hub for the latest Patch 8.1 information!
      Baby Raptors

      7th Legion Rifleman (Female)

      7th Legion Rifleman (Male)

      Mekkatorque
      The High Tinker is a boss in the upcoming Battle of Dazar'alor raid and thus received a brand new model.

      Zandari Caster (Female)

      Zandalari Guard (Male)

      Zandalari Honor Guard (Male)