LoN Frenzy/Thorns Barbarian (Patch 2.6.4)

[Blainie 2,336]

This thread is for comments and feedback about our LoN Frenzy Barbarian build guide.

[Guest coward]

From the way LoN works it seems that you should forget about thorns scaling until all your items are ancient.

I'm trying to scrape together quite a similar setup but focusing life on hit instead and using undisputed champion as a belt.  I tested adding hack to the mix, with alternating thorns values, and since I'm yet to acquire ancient hack the damage was less spikier but noticeably less.

[Guest Omega]

Why wouldn't you take heart of iron instead of vambrances of sescheron when you have sustainability for the massive damage buff from all your vitality rolls? 

[Kaelos 61]

In Speedfarm variant Goldwrap keeps me almost invincible. Wouldn't it be better to change Aquila Cuirass for Heart of Iron for example? But Aquila could be useful if Goldwrap duration ends so not sure. Maybe Heart of Iron as alternative.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Kaelos

[Elekim 4]

Some minor notes:

1) In the skill section of the speed farming variation page it is written that "you can change the flexible fourth slot from progression staples like Nerves of Steel to Pound of Flesh". However, the table of skills reported Pound of Flesh together with Ruthless and, comparing with the table for the GR build, in the place of the must-have Tough as Nails. Maybe a typo?

2) Any suggestion for best-in-slot Potion and Follower?

[Guest Oogmun]

Would Undisputed Champion cause Convention of Elements to buff Frenzy full time?

 

[Elekim 4]

Some minor corrections and clarifications to make the guide more complete and coherent (for new and casual players expecially):

1) Reading the Skill page it may seem that the fourth recommended passive is Nerves of Steel, but the skill tables (both in the Skill and in the Intro pages) list Ruthless as the 4th passive: so, which is the recommended one?
In the speed farming variation page, it is written: "In your passives, you can change the flexible fourth slot from progression staples like Nerves of Steel to Pound of Flesh". There is some incoherence here: the flexible fourth slot of the GR build is occupied (as shown in tables of skills) by Ruthless, not Nerves of Steel; in any case, using that slot for Pund of Flesh while speed farming will leave the build with Berserker Rage, Boon of Bul-Kathos, Pound of Flesh and Tough as Nails, not Ruthless. Thus, the text and the tables regarding thw passive skills of this build and its variation should be revised and made more coherent.

2) In the Gear page it is written: "and restrict yourself to just one of the synergistic legendary bracers discussed further". That discussion seem to have been removed (with the introduction of Mortick's Brace), and so should this sentence...

3) In the Cube section it is written: "or speed up your rift clear times with Nemesis Bracers once you include enough Life per Hit on gear". How much is "enough" Life per Hit? This affix is only listed as stat priorities for the two weapons (as 5th affix, i.e.the last one and only if you get the Socket for "free" with Ramaladni's Gift), and not in any other slot that can roll it (helm, gloves, bracers, amulet, rings). It is not clear if and when one will be able to use Nemesis Bracers instead of Vambraces of Sescheron.
In the Cube section it is written: "You can cube Vambraces of Sescheron early on", which seems to mean that a well-geared character should use the power of Nemesis Bracers, not Vambraces of Sescheron: why, in the Intro page, is the latter the recommended power to store in the armor slot of Kana's Cube? Shouldn't it be changed to Nemesis Bracers?

4) For Andariel's Visage, is its guaranteed Attack Speed a welcomed stat? If so, it should be added to the list of stat priorities, otherwise the list as it is seems to suggest that it should be re-rolled into Vitality...
In addition, Andariel's Visage cannot roll (nor re-roll) Thorns as a secondary affix: is "Physical Damage %" worth the loss?

5) The Flavor of Time can roll 5 primary affixes, so maybe its list of stat priorities should list at least another affix as 5th (probably Attack Speed).

6) Some small doubts about the order of stat priorities in the table of the Gear page:
"Physical %" is more important than "Strenght" for the Amulet, but less important than Strenght for the Bracers: why?
Cooldown Reduction is more important that Thorns for Pauldrons and Gloves, but not for Amulets and Rings: why?

7) In the Paragon Points section, the priority for the Core slot are: 1. Movement Speed up to 25% cap, 2. Strength, 3. Vitality, 4. Maximum Fury. Since Strength and Vitality have no cap, it is not clear which is the recommended point allocation after reaching 25% Movement Speed: all into Strenght? Or alternatively one point into Strength, Vitality and Maximum Fury?
Similarly, for the other slots, is there a recommended rotation for allocating Paragon Points? For example: is it better to maximize Cooldown Reduction before moving to Attack Speed, or raising them both together one by one? Or PP should be spended to compensate gear imbalancies?

8] For the 5 sockets of Torso and Pants the guide suggests Rubies (for Damage) and/or Diamonds (for Toughness): how many of each? Is there a recommendation or it's completely up to personal preference? Is the choice linked to the stats rolled on gear, or to the number and allocation of paragon points?

9) In the gear page, it is written: "For more information regarding followers, we advise you to read our Follower Guide, which contains detailed advice for choosing the skills and the gear of your follower." That page should be updated (it dates back to 2016, it considers damage-dealing follower's builds viable alternatives when they are not, it lists useless stats like Vitality and All Resistance as "stat priorities", it does not mention useful secondary stats like Chance to Freeze in the tables of stat priorities, etc etc...)
In addition, it is not clear which is the best follower for this Barbarian build specifically: which one (Templar, Scoundrel, Enchantress)? With which gear (Thunderfury with Wyrdward? Freeze of Deflection with Justice Lantern? ...)? With which skills (Inspire or Guardian? Mass Control or Focused Mind? ...)?

10) Which is the best Legendary Potion for this build?

[Guest Tapademic]

Not sure why you use swamp pants over depth diggers. 

[Sableflame 4]

It would seem that a LoD version of this would be eminently suitable for posting:

Helm: Leoric's Crown
Shoulders: Pauldrons of the Skeleton King
Gloves: Magefist / St. Archew's Gage (offense or defense, take your pick)
Chest: Aquila Cuirass / Heart of Iron (defense or offense, take your pick)
Belt: Pride of Cassius / The Undisputed Champion (defense or offense, take your pick)
Pants: Depth Diggers (unless I'm missing something here... I'm pretty sure 80-100% more Frenzy damage is better than 20% more Fire (Frenzy) damage)
Boots: Illusory Boots / Ice Climbers (personal preference - pass through or no lockdown)
Bracers: Mortick's Brace
Amulet: Hellfire Amulet of Strength (popular extra passives include: Inspiring Presence, Nerves of Steel, and Brawler for this builds constant, in the enemy's face, design)
Ring 1: Band of Might (as you will be constantly Furious Charging between groups) / Convention of Elements (for the Fire rotation) - Keep your best rolled Ancient, cube the other
Ring 2: Unity (and a matched one on an immortal follower)
Weapon 1: Hack
Weapon 2: Oathkeeper

LeGem 1: Bane of the Trapped
LeGem 2: Boyarsky's Chip
LeGem 3: Legacy of Dreams

Cube Weapon: Bastion's Revered
Cube Armor: Vambraces of Sescheron (healing like crazy) or any of the above alternate armor choices you might want instead
Cube Jewelry: Your other between Band of Might and CoE

I suppose it's worth nothing the "why" on the various armor choices above:

Magefist vs St Archew's - Magefist is going to give you a flat 15-20% bonus to your Frenzy damage, not a hugely spectacular bonus, but better than anything else gloves can do for you. St. Archew's will give you a powerful shield, but only from engaging elites. A pack of standard enemies can still wear you down and you'll never see this trigger.

Aquila Cuirass vs Heart of Iron - AC is a staple defensive item across every class and dozens of builds. The only drawback it suffers from in this build is that, for your first few seconds of combat, and in any long lulls between combats (arguably the most dangerous time) its buff won't be up, as you won't have the necessary Rage (A HAoS with Unforgiving can mitigate this). Heart of Iron is a simple "the more buff you are, the more damage you'll do" - it scales extra Thorns off your Vitality stat, which as a Barb, you should have in abundance to begin with.

Pride of Cassius vs The Undisputed Champion - This one is a hard one. PoC can make your Ignore Pain close to 100% uptime (Iron Hide & a full PoC = 13 secs uptime, 56.7% CDR needed for full uptime). TUC, on the other hand, is a pure Frenzy DPS beast - giving Frenzy every rune (you still pick the one for damage type - which if you have gear suited to a different elemental type, could lead to some interesting choices - i.e., Frostburn instead of Magefist) AND giving it a 300-400% multiplicative damage bonus.

Edited June 6 by Sableflame
adding armor choice clarifications