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Corpse Lance Necromancer (Patch 2.6.4)

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Guest Joeriz

I am wondering how the Trag'oul variaty will be able to solo anything. Unless you've got people with you to make some kills, its impossible to start damaging

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Guest Aeris

why on speed farm Pestilence set, you use Vigilante Belt and not Witching hour?

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Guest Ikarus

I'm wondering the same thing about solo'ing with this build. It's a big PITA to solo without something to at least get the corpse count started so you can start taking advantage of the corpse lance. Land of the dead is only good every 2 minutes, so are you supposed to blood rush around in circles for two minutes to generate some of your own corpses and hope that you get enough going to take care of large packs?

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Guest confuseddiabloist

Uhm, unless I'm mistaken, this build is NOT top tier as you have to have a group to even use it so there are more corpses - otherwise, you get killed over and over.. then rage quit.    I started changing my gear and things to match this set - it sucks and is WAY too complicated to use effectively.   Diablo is a casual gaming experience for most of us, and this just makes it feel like work. :(

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Guest Trilint

I find this set to be good, if you go with Maltorius' Petrified Spike and Bone Spear (w/ Blood Spear rune). It's much more damage than Corpse lance, and you can move about a lot more.
You also don't need teammates or Land of the Dead to initiate a fight.

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My buddy was using pestilence and the bone spear M petrified spike, he still has concerns about playing that on his own without my monk for help getting started. I think he'd be fine, but never quick in rifts, often down right slow. To start rifts he'd be vulnerable defensively and lack corpses offensively, and even throughout when there are breaks in enemies. But holy smokes is it ever deadly with a team mate. There are times once you get going you can blow through everything yourself, but you don't get such an awesome spread of enemies every time, and the best option for this build to kill without corpses is probably bone spear, and it's not quite good enough when trying to maximise your difficulty. Suppose you could probably do one that should be way to hard in the 15 minutes if you get started and then on a roll for the entirety, but that's perfect world. Looks like you could fail one you can easily beat too, there would be a vast difference between the potential to take way longer or go quickly. 

I think for solo it has to be lower level rifts than you are capable of, awesome spacing between enemies, or you have to be incredible at making sure you start rifts, and new areas with your empowered bone spear, Which probably disappears to start a GR. I think I'll try a Rathma minion build for my necro. But I'm curious for the explanation on how good players and how my buddy can get started. Land of the dead can't possibly be that much better than an empowered bone spear, should be worse no?  

Edit* Ha I was thinking of army of the dead. Never understood the using corpses at will part, could you guys explain? Don't need corpses to use the corpse spells? need available corpses but don't end up using them? Don't cost anything or have cooldowns? Or how does that work?

Edited by Knutsanity

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On 1/22/2019 at 3:53 PM, Guest Aeris said:

why on speed farm Pestilence set, you use Vigilante Belt and not Witching hour?

Cooldown reduction.

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On 1/24/2019 at 6:39 PM, Guest confuseddiabloist said:

Uhm, unless I'm mistaken, this build is NOT top tier as you have to have a group to even use it so there are more corpses - otherwise, you get killed over and over.. then rage quit.    I started changing my gear and things to match this set - it sucks and is WAY too complicated to use effectively.   Diablo is a casual gaming experience for most of us, and this just makes it feel like work. 😞

Uses a top tier build

Complains that it's not casual enough

  • Haha 1

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On 1/30/2019 at 4:17 PM, Knutsanity said:

My buddy was using pestilence and the bone spear M petrified spike, he still has concerns about playing that on his own without my monk for help getting started. I think he'd be fine, but never quick in rifts, often down right slow. To start rifts he'd be vulnerable defensively and lack corpses offensively, and even throughout when there are breaks in enemies. But holy smokes is it ever deadly with a team mate. There are times once you get going you can blow through everything yourself, but you don't get such an awesome spread of enemies every time, and the best option for this build to kill without corpses is probably bone spear, and it's not quite good enough when trying to maximise your difficulty. Suppose you could probably do one that should be way to hard in the 15 minutes if you get started and then on a roll for the entirety, but that's perfect world. Looks like you could fail one you can easily beat too, there would be a vast difference between the potential to take way longer or go quickly. 

I think for solo it has to be lower level rifts than you are capable of, awesome spacing between enemies, or you have to be incredible at making sure you start rifts, and new areas with your empowered bone spear, Which probably disappears to start a GR. I think I'll try a Rathma minion build for my necro. But I'm curious for the explanation on how good players and how my buddy can get started. Land of the dead can't possibly be that much better than an empowered bone spear, should be worse no?  

Edit* Ha I was thinking of army of the dead. Never understood the using corpses at will part, could you guys explain? Don't need corpses to use the corpse spells? need available corpses but don't end up using them? Don't cost anything or have cooldowns? Or how does that work?

Land of the dead makes all your corpse skills act as if there is corpses around you at all times, so they effectively are free.

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Wow, that explains everything then, so as long as you try and go into each new area with land of the dead cooled down, you can start plenty fast. Wild. So the build is just fine for solo then. My buddy wasn't even using that skill yet, we had no idea what it meant when we saw it at first a while ago, and had mostly used minion builds until he died and had to switch to another set very recently. Don't think either of us thought of it, to test it. We've both left the necro to our last 3 classes to work up to T 13 and beyond on HC, so little gameplay time with them comparatively. We'll probably play again soon, I'll let him know, thank you kindly. Now imagining his build with land of the dead, I feel like I'm starting to understand why people think Necro is so powerful.  It will probably be right up there with our best characters already without much grinding. 

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20 hours ago, Knutsanity said:

Wow, that explains everything then, so as long as you try and go into each new area with land of the dead cooled down, you can start plenty fast. Wild. So the build is just fine for solo then. My buddy wasn't even using that skill yet, we had no idea what it meant when we saw it at first a while ago, and had mostly used minion builds until he died and had to switch to another set very recently. Don't think either of us thought of it, to test it. We've both left the necro to our last 3 classes to work up to T 13 and beyond on HC, so little gameplay time with them comparatively. We'll probably play again soon, I'll let him know, thank you kindly. Now imagining his build with land of the dead, I feel like I'm starting to understand why people think Necro is so powerful.  It will probably be right up there with our best characters already without much grinding. 

This is why cooldown reduction is so insanely important on this build. Outside of LotD, the only thing you can do is kite, find elites to kill and look for pylons. You are not expected to kill anything without it. Once you pop it, you have a window to kill at least 1 elite and then finish off whatever else you can, ideally another elite/elite pack. It seems strange at first, but it is wildly effective. Channeling Pylons are also absurdly good on this build. You can basically use 3 LotDs back-to-back, and at that point, you should move between any packs you can find, killing whatever you can.

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Guest Boio

I'm probably just bad, but I don't see how the Trag'oul build is top tier. So far it seems to be "Activate Land of the Dead to deal a quarter of a damage to a grey minion.", before then doing nothing until you can do it again.

I took out the Simulacrum, since I didn't find it doing much, and replaced it with a Flesh Golem+Moribund Gauntlet. Just because that way I have a somewhat consistent way to get access to the entire resource the build is based on. Before I then activate Land of the Dead and do another quarter. So am I just a noob (probably), or is this set not really as top tier as it seems to be advertised as?

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Guest Hloden

I'm using this build pretty effectively, but haven't gotten too high in rifts yet, and am using the Trag version.  One suggestion is until you get your cool down, swap out the Simulcrum with Flesh Golem, then you can alternate between Land of the Dead, and starting out fights with the Flesh Golem.

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On 2/6/2019 at 10:42 AM, Guest Boio said:

I'm probably just bad, but I don't see how the Trag'oul build is top tier. So far it seems to be "Activate Land of the Dead to deal a quarter of a damage to a grey minion.", before then doing nothing until you can do it again.

I took out the Simulacrum, since I didn't find it doing much, and replaced it with a Flesh Golem+Moribund Gauntlet. Just because that way I have a somewhat consistent way to get access to the entire resource the build is based on. Before I then activate Land of the Dead and do another quarter. So am I just a noob (probably), or is this set not really as top tier as it seems to be advertised as?

What GR level are you trying? Removing simulacrum will reduce your damage by about 30-40% so I wouldn't recommend it. When LotD is up you should be holding down corpse lance on your target (preferably an elite) and spamming devour so you don't kill yourself. It's certainly the best necromancer build right now, although after the "balance" patch it's weaker than any other class.

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Just have a question about the necklace for this, the Johnstone. The macabre stacks, whatever those are for 180% ish extra corpse lance and corpse explosion damage once exiting land of the dead. I notice it's not in the build, it looks like it might help as much as CoE, except timing CoE for while in LotD I suppose would be much more effective. Instead of just making better use of your time out of LotD. I'm a ways away from the sets for the necro, haven't spent much time on it. But I've got it up pretty good with the LoN set instead, so It's become a very viable Necklace to wear.  Krysbin's Sentence Krysbin's Sentence is obvously the best for the jewlery slot over CoE or Johnstone. But without that many very important passives I'm thinking not a hellfire, but the Johnstone would be best in slot for LoN corpse lance in the Necklace gear slot. 
 

THE JOHNSTONE

  • Neck
  • Legendary Amulet

Primary

  •  Critical Hit Damage Increased by [51.0 - 100.0]% 

    Secondary

    When Land of the Dead expires, you are granted 50 stacks of Macabre Knowledge. Macabre Knowledge increases the damage of Corpse Lance and Corpse Explosion by 179%.(Necromancer Only) [150 - 200]%


     
  • One of 3 Magic Properties (varies)
    •  +[626 - 750] Strength
    •  +[626 - 750] Dexterity
    •  +[626 - 750] Intelligence
  • +3 Random Magic Properties

Just curious if anyone has used it for this build at some point to try it out. I'm assuming it means your next 50 corpse lances after LotD are increased by 150-200%? You guys think I should use it over a 5th passive or another Amulet? It's again another set that LoN is better than at base dmg and dmg reduction. With the Endless walk added in for full dmg bonus as well. You guys been trying it out with LoN? I plan on trying it out until I have a real nice ancient Rathma's and Endless Walk set to switch too, which will be a while. 

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https://www.d3planner.com/287291365

 

That's about what I was thinking of doing. I went with 92% stats on the gear for a bit of a high goal, and kind of conservative on the stats effect on the dmg and toughness. Though I don't fully understand the app. Defensive numbers don't include the dmg reduction from the belt, so the defence looks great with the control effects of this build either stun or cold. How would you guys tinker with that, and how would it do do you think? Compared to the other sets, or to your liking in playstyle and all that. 

Went with kinda low crit because of the corpse lance rune, cooldown is outrageous when including the gem of swiftness and the decrepify rune. 

Was thinking can only have 2 of the 3 between consume, decrepify and cursed scythe. Also considering golem with the gloves for shedding a corpse instead and the 30 % dmg reduction. That would replace consume and the armour cube slot, of course. I'd prefer decrepify to cursed scythe, except aquila cuirass, not sure if it will always be above the 90-95% essence if I'm cursing all over the place, and consuming to make up for that may ruin my corpse lance potential. So not sure how to balance that. My current build is so far off I'll not find out how I like it for a while. 

So LoN = 9750% dmg And Pestilence X EWalk X CoE = 1650% X2 for extra C Lance X 2 EWalk = 6600% X3 CoE = 19800 % at the best of times. But to me very comparable with a couple of the extra legendaries available to it. The LoN would be better outside of LotD as well, and better defensively. Not as good end game wise and utilised to full potential if I had to guess, but an option for those putting together an initial build for necro with a chest full of intelligence stuff, like me, and an easier play style again. Or an option for a money/ gem / T13 speed farm build similar to this, How far do you think it might go compared to a pestilence or Trag Oul's of equal optimisation?  

Edited by Knutsanity

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Some minor notes:

1) The possibility to equip Krysbin's Sentence and cube Convention of Elements (although not recommended) is explained in the Cube section, but not in the Gear section.

2) Which is the fourth recommended passive skill for the speed farming variation: Rathma's Shield (as recommended in the speed farming variation page) or Fueled by Death (as stated in the Introduction page)?

3) In the speed farming variation page, Lost Time has only three recommended stats: maybe at least a fourth one should be added?

4) In the Trag'Oul variation page it is written "Replacing Draw Life from the Pestilence setup...", while Draw Life is not a recommended skill for the Pestilence setup.

5) Which area the recommended Potion and Follower for the build?

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Guest trag'oul's?!

yeah why use trag'oul's corroded fang for Pestilence build if not using Grim Scythe?  (speedfarm variation).

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Guest MuTayShuN

You use tragouls scythe because of the curse damage 200% to enemies under influence of curses, which all enemies should be since you spam decertify in between all LotD instances. It also lets you use a phylacrity in your off hand which is another spot to get that vital cool down reduction as well as additional damage and attack speed and extra essence.

 

Also people keep mentioning using flesh golem and moribund gauntlets to get more consistent damage.. That's not what the build is about. Its an elite sniper build. You stack cool down reduction to 50%+, then you decrepify borrowed time everything while you kite around looking for elites or champions to kill, then once you find them you pop LotD and simulacrum simultaneously and target the elite with corpse lance. The reason moribund gauntlets suck for this is that you REALLY want corpse whisper shoulders cubed because it keeps stacking your corpse lance damage up and once it gets fully revved it helps you do massive damage. This build does the most damage starting 3-4 seconds after popping LotD and getting the corpse whisper pauldrons stacks up.

 

Simulacrum is vitally important because it works with your cubed weapon to deal more damage based on essence amount.

 

This is not a casual build and the build does not have much wiggle room when it comes to items for gr pushing past  75 or so. You die a lot while playing it, you spend 90% of the time just blood rushing around looking for elites and trying not to die. But it is very effective, very very powerful, and very fun once you get used to it. Much more interactive and strategic than a beginner face roll rathma setup with jesseths and singularity and command skeletons which will cap out around gr 80 (other rathma singularity builds can go much higher but at that point its more similar to this build than a regular pet build).

 

If you want the build to work you actually have to follow it. Items and skills. Then once you get used to it you can think about changing it up.

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I started using this build but was having problems with my Essence. I changed things up a bit because I'm also not a big fan of curses. This is what i'm using right now. I don't come across any essence problems at all. All I have to do is keep on summoning skeletal mages with gift of death and devour them with the ruthless rune to get essence which I can use to summon more. They will also leave a corpse behind which I use to corpse lance. Enemies also leave behind corpses so that helps out too.

Most of my gear stays the same except for Bane of the Trapped, Phylactery and belt.

Skills

  • Grim Scythe - Cursed Scythe 
  • Skeletal Mage - Gift of Death
  • Devour - Ruthless
  • Blood Rush - Metabolism (Handy when speed rifting)
  • Land of the Dead - Shallow Graves (I personally use it for strong enemies)
  • Bone Armor - Vengeful Armaments (Boosts damage a little more)

Passives

  • Stand Alone
  • Rathma’s Shield
  • Draw Life
  • Fueled by Death

Kanai's Cube

  • Reilena’s Shadowhook 
  • Corpsewhisper Pauldrons
  • Circle of Nailuj’s Evol (Spawns an extra minion to devour)

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