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Season 17: An Ancient & Primal Guide

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With the Season of Nightmares in full swing, Blizzard posted a guide on Ancient and Primal items, where they highlight the difference between them and talk about the ongoing Seasonal bonus, which increases your damage dealt and reduces damage taken by a percentage for each Ancient you equip.

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Ancient items truly shine in Season 17: so long as you have no Set bonuses equipped, each Ancient you equip will provide you with a massive 750% boost to damage dealt and 4% reduction in damage taken. For those of you who may have taken a break from gathering loot recently, we thought a quick refresher was in order to clear up any confusion about the differences between Legendary, Ancient, and Primal Ancient items.

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In general, Ancient and Primal Ancient items are more powerful versions of Legendary items. They are identical to Legendary items except that their base attributes (damage or armor) and all non-percentile affixes roll higher values for both minimum and maximum possible rolls.

Ancient & Primal Ancient Items

  • The stats on these items will (generally) be tailored to the character class you are playing when the item drops
  • Set items are also able to roll as both Ancient and Primal Ancient
  • You can’t equip more than one item with the same name, even if one is Ancient and the other isn’t
  • Any percentage-based affix will not be boosted (such as Attack Speed, bonus % to skills or % Critical Hit Chance/Damage)

Ancient Items

  • Only drop for characters who have reached level 70, and only on Torment level difficulties
  • When dropped, Ancient items share the same orange glow as regular Legendaries
    • You must identify the item to see if it’s an Ancient
    • Once identified, Ancient items have an orange border (or green for Set items) around the item tooltip and say "Ancient" in the item description.
  • They drop from all sources including monsters, chests, Kadala, Horadric Caches, Kanai's Cube, and even crafting at the Blacksmith or Jeweler

Primal Ancient Items

  • When dropped, Primal Ancient items have a red beam and glow
  • Drops from any source of Legendary item in the game, including Horadric Caches, Kadala, and Kanai's Cube, but only after having successfully completed at least a level 70 Greater Rift solo
  • These items are much rarer than Ancient items and have perfect Ancient-level stats on all affixes, including the item’s Legendary Power

Primal Ancients & Developer Philosophy

Primal Ancients are for players who have largely completed gearing for their build or finished their Season Journey but want to continue playing. They’re also for non-Seasonal players who have great gear and spend most of their time gaining Paragon Levels and upgrading Legendary Gems. We wanted to extend the excitement of seeing gear drop or spending Blood Shards at Kadala beyond obtaining Ancients in every slot. Primals provide an avenue for dedicated players to complete a build, without feeling like required upgrades.

We hope that answers any questions you may have about Ancients and Primal Ancients. Now go get ‘em!

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Primal ancients don't really have any use beyond looking cool. The problem is that even if u get a useful primal, it's likely to be worse than the regular ancient u have, because of a wrong stat. They should make primal always reforge to primal. Or come up with another way to make them relevant but not required. Instead they made them not required by making them irrelevant. Fail.

Edited by pwnz0r

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8 hours ago, pwnz0r said:

Primal ancients don't really have any use beyond looking cool. The problem is that even if u get a useful primal, it's likely to be worse than the regular ancient u have, because of a wrong stat. They should make primal always reforge to primal. Or come up with another way to make them relevant but not required. Instead they made them not required by making them irrelevant. Fail.

I disagree with this. Even with imperfect stats, a primal weapon is still amazing because of max main stat, max damage range and max legendary affix. Especially on items that have massive ranges, things like Deathwish, for example.

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You can disagree all you want, but i'm telling you, by the time you get such a primal, you'll already have a very close to primal rolled ancient with the right stats. Also, read better my previous post 'cos i clearly stated my point there already, which you clearly missed.

Which is like super lame 'cos, if you think about it, a regular ancient can be an upgrade to a primal.

Although, primal were meant to be more powerful (rolling higher min-max values, like with ancients vs normal legs), but because botters and ppl playing 18h/day would have had an unfair advantage vs casuals, 'cos of the low drop rate, blizz backtracked after community backlash, and did some cheapo damage control by making them useless.

Edited by pwnz0r

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16 hours ago, pwnz0r said:

You can disagree all you want, but i'm telling you, by the time you get such a primal, you'll already have a very close to primal rolled ancient with the right stats. Also, read better my previous post 'cos i clearly stated my point there already, which you clearly missed.

 

Maybe you have some problems with the English language (like I have myself), but your post said: Primals are likely to be worse then ancient items.

And Blainie is correct: With weapons that is definitly not the case.

Primal weapons are almost always better then ancient ones. Because they have perfect weapon range, perfect main attribute and perfect affix (if the weapon has such a thing).

Since those are in most cases the most important stuff for a weapon, you automatically fullfill most of what a weapon needs to have.

Then you can switch one attribute you do not like and you have:

1 perfect weapon range

1 perfect attribute of your choice

1 perfect main attribute

1 perfect affix (if avaiable)

Chances of this being better then any ancient item you have are huge.

 

However, with other equipment it is different - there is a high chance you have 2 (or even 3) attributes you do not want. Even with changing one it you still miss at least one important attribute. -> making it worse then a well rolled ancient item.

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That's not true, you guys don't play the game, that's evident by your faulty reasoning. Especially for weapons, you lose a lot more dps by having a wrong stat (eg. missing area damage, cdr, rcr, attack speed etc.), than having the min-max ranges a little lower than primal. Just run any build on d3planner and you'll see.

I don't have much of a problem with english, read better:

On 5/27/2019 at 9:53 AM, pwnz0r said:

The problem is that even if u get a useful primal, it's likely to be worse than the regular ancient u have, because of a wrong stat.

On 5/27/2019 at 6:26 PM, pwnz0r said:

by the time you get such a primal, you'll already have a very close to primal rolled ancient with the right stats.

Maybe i failed to point out that i meant having a wrong stat after you already rolled one on the primal. Which means it originally drops with more than one wrong stat, but that is pretty much implied, if one knows the game.

EDIT: Also, almost everyone sees a legendary affix roll of 400% vs 300% as giving double, 100% more, increased damage. When in fact it's just 25% effective damage boost. Even less % if you have equipped more than one item that are adding to the same affix.

Edited by pwnz0r

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Let's take a look at the necessary stats.

IK Hammer of the Ancients Barb:

  •  
  1. Socket (preferably from Ramaladni's GiftRamaladni's Gift)
  2. Weapon Damage
  3. Strength
  4. Area Damage
  5. Increased Attack Speed
  6. Damage %

Your primal will give you:

1, check

2, check

3, check

4 in doubt

5 in doubt

6 in doubt

even if you are extremly unlucky, you can reroll one into are damage.

Giving you the first 4 stats.

 

Wizard, ARchon, Vyr

  •  
  1. High Base Weapon Damage
  2. Intelligence
  3. Socket (preferably from Ramaladni's GiftRamaladni's Gift)
  4. Cooldown Reduction
  5. % Weapon Damage
  6. Life per Hit

 

1. check

2. check

3. check

4 in doubt

5. in doubt

6. in doubt

 

again, by even if you are unlucky with the stats you have at least the 4 most important stats

 

Deamon Hunter, Nataliya Marauder Sentry:

  •  
  1. Socket (preferably from Ramaladni's GiftRamaladni's Gift)
  2. Weapon Damage
  3. Dexterity
  4. % Weapon Damage
  5. Vitality
  6. Resource Cost Reduction

 

1. check

2. check

3. check

4. in doubt

5. in doubt

6. in doubt

 

and - what a huge surprise - we have again the first 4 stats guaranteed.

 

All 3 examples are some of the strongest builds avaiable at the moment.

 

But hey, why am I waisting my time? Obviously you are not interested in facts.

What you say is true for non-weapon items.

For weapons, an ancient one is almost always better then a non-ancient one.

 

23 hours ago, pwnz0r said:

 

EDIT: Also, almost everyone sees a legendary affix roll of 400% vs 300% as giving double, 100% more, increased damage. When in fact it's just 25% effective damage boost. Even less % if you have equipped more than one item that are adding to the same affix.

 

 

Thank you for stating something obvious.

And yeah, 15-25% damage increase is absolutly nothing, yeah sure.

 

Edited by Guest

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You just confirmed what i was saying, having an ancient with perfect attributes and above average mi-max values, will always beat a primal that does not have perfect attributes. Just run it on d3planner and the numbers will show.

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I am not getting promals to drop at all this season so for some reason having a hard time getting ancients too I am gr 93 and have logged at least 75 hours this season crazy.

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On 5/29/2019 at 12:07 PM, pwnz0r said:

You just confirmed what i was saying, having an ancient with perfect attributes and above average mi-max values, will always beat a primal that does not have perfect attributes. Just run it on d3planner and the numbers will show.

Well yeah.

If you comapre it to a (close to) perfectly rolled ancient: Perfect stats, near perfect values, high min-max range.

Sure, Primal can't be better then.

But: What are your chances of a "perfect" ancient? I played quite a lot (several hundred hours) of D3 and I have decent ancient weapons. (3 chars)

But not perfect ones. After several hundred hours.

Maybe your chance of getting a perfect ancient is higher then getting a primal weapon.

But how many players have a "perfect" ancient? I have no idea, but it won't be that many.

 

And for every other player (which will be how many? 95%?) a primal weapon will be better and a great find.

Are primals absolutly awesome? Are they as game-changing as ancient have been when they were implemented?

No, absolutly not. Not enough impact, way too rare and in most cases worse then ancients.

Are they completly useless?

Not as a weapon, as a weapon they will benefit most players.

For other gear-slots: Yeah, they are useless.

 

However, I totally agree with one thing: Reforging a primal should definitly result in a primal again.

 

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As someone who plays seasons almost exclusively, averaging around 100 hours per season (casual player category obviously), if a primal weapon of a top tier spec drops, it get's used.  I switch to that spec if needed - it makes that much of a difference given my level of play.  100 hours is just not enough time, on average, to get the high quality ancient that would be required to replace it.  Regardless, given enough time a primal that was better than a perfect ancient would eventually drop. 

I think the strongest evidence against your argument are the leaderboards.  I just went and checked the seasonal boards for the top players among DH, WD, Crusader and Barbs (I'm not going to check them all) and I see a lot of primals being used.  When I check the normal boards, I see even more primals in use on average.

 

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Sure, but you can't draw conclusions from some data that's circumstantial at best. So, it happens that, this season, some meta builds benefit from those weapons' guaranteed (to drop with) attributes. So every primal is basically (almost) guaranteed to be better (vs ancients) for some meta builds, for the current season. Next season, patch, who knows.

Still, even without counting the cost to benefit of primals, it feels lame that a 'perfect attributes' ancient can easily beat a 'crappy attributes' primal.

Edited by pwnz0r

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Hey guys, i read the topic and some comments here, you are all telling right about ancients and primals, but there is something that we are not paying attention, the primals are the ancients with max stats,

so if you are comparing a primal with an "ideal" ancient item, ofc that ancient item is better.

But if we compare casual drops for primals vs normal ancients that we get, primals are better. Unless the stats you want has some priority. Sometimes i do not change my normal legendary item with ancients with bad rolls, its a huge damage drop. Unless i get the stats that i want.

And i do not compare the case that both are "ideal" so we know the answer already.

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      Developer Note: With Patch 2.6.7, we are beginning to roll out new class sets for every class in Diablo III. For the Season of Valor, we're focusing on the two classes that embody the Light and wield some form of Holy elemental damage: Crusader and Monk. You'll also find a handful of retuned or newly added Legendary powers intended to synergize with the new class sets. We did a lot of community research into which skills were most requested by players as well as most underrepresented in current builds, and we hope you're as excited as we are for these new gameplay options. The other class sets will be coming in later patches, so if your class isn't represented this time around, fret not—they're coming in a future patch! You'll also notice a significant number of Barbarian item changes in this patch. While the Barbarian class set will be coming at a later date, we have very much heard the War Cry from our dedicated Barbarian community and implemented a number of changes heavily inspired by extremely thorough feedback. While not every suggestion has been taken at a 1:1 parity, the thoughtful analysis helped guide us to changes we could implement in this patch. Thanks very much to the community members who expressed their concerns in a respectful, constructive manner. It's very helpful, and we greatly appreciate the thought and effort that went into making your voices heard! New Crusader Set: Aegis of Valor 2-Piece Bonus: The charged bolts from Fist of the Heavens has a chance to cast another Fist of the Heavens Attacking with Fist of the Heavens empowers you, allowing Heaven's Fury to deal 100% increased damage for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times (multiplicative). 4-Piece Bonus: Hitting with Fist of the Heavens generates 5 Wrath and reduces damage taken by 1% for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 50 times 6-Piece Bonus: Increase the damage of Fist of the Heavens and Heaven's Fury by 10,000% 20,000% Developer's Note: Thank you so much for your thorough feedback and testing on the 2.6.7 PTR! We decided to add Heaven's Fury to the mix based on popular request as well as because we agree that it matches the theme and adds more gameplay complexity. There is also still room for tweaks and additional iteration in the future, and we're glad we were able to introduce a set so many of you are excited to use! New Monk Set: Patterns of Justice 2-Piece Bonus: Sweeping Wind gains the effect of every rune and movement speed is increased by 5% for each stack of Sweeping Wind. 4-Piece Bonus: Each enemy within Sweeping Wind increases your movement speed by 5%. Stacks up to 10 times. Attacking with Tempest Rush reduces your damage taken by 50% and increases Spirit Regeneration by 50. 6-Piece Bonus: Hitting with Tempest Rush while Sweeping Wind is active will temporarily increase the size of Sweeping Wind after hitting over 30 times within a short period. Sweeping Wind damage is increased by 10,000% 15,000% Developer's Note: Thank you so much for your thorough feedback and testing on the 2.6.7 PTR! We heard Monk requests for additional damage reduction and to better integrate Tempest Rush as a skill. We hope the result makes for a more survivable and engaging build that still captures that rush of Holy Justice sweeping through crowds of dastardly demons. Darklight Fist of the Heavens has a [45-60%] 100% chance to be cast twice. Additional Legendary Power: Increases the damage of Fist of the Heavens by [200-250%][800-1000%]. Eye of the Storm New Legendary Power: When Sweeping Wind hits exactly 1 enemy, its damage is increased by 100%. Developer's Note: With the redesign of Patterns of Justice, there was less need for this item's introduction. We've removed it for now and may consider adding it (or possibly a different Legendary power) at a later date. Vengeful Wind Increases the maximum stack count of Sweeping Wind by [6-7] 10 Additional Legendary Power: Increases the damage of Sweeping Wind by [250-300%] [600-800%]. Won Khim Lau New Legendary Power: Hitting with Tempest Rush will activate Cyclone Strike, and both skills deal [500-600%] increased damage. Chantodo's Resolve The scaled attack speed damage bonus to Wave of Destruction has been reduced Developer Note: This is a reactive adjustment from an earlier change to how Wave of Destruction receives a bonus from Attack Speed. The buff that resulted from that change was more than we expected, so we're reigning it in. Wrath of the Wastes 6-Piece Bonus: The damage bonus now also applies to Rend Lamentation Additional Legendary Power: Increases the damage of Rend by [150-200%] Developer Note: While we were very happy with how much better Barbarians are performing, we are concerned we may have overshot it. By removing just one silo'd addition, we can observe how the class performance goes for Season 19 and consider re-adding this change in the future. Remember we still have a patch coming up where Barb will be one of the focused classes, so there will be plenty of time to revisit if necessary! Ambo's Pride New Legendary Power: Attacking with Whirlwind also applies Rend and the total damage of Rend is dealt over 1 second Remorseless Hammer of the Ancients has a [25-30%] chance to summon an Ancient for 20 seconds New Legendary Power: While both Wrath of the Berserker and Call of the Ancients are active, Hammer of the Ancients deals [200-250%] more damage. Fjord Cutter You are surrounded by a Chilling Aura when attacking. New Legendary Power: Seismic Slam attacks 50% faster and also deals 100-150% increased damage against Slowed or Chilled enemies Bracers of Destruction Seismic Slam deals [400-500%] increased damage to the first 5 10 enemies it hits. Fury of the Ancients Call of the Ancients gains the effect of the Ancients' Fury rune and your Ancients attack 100% faster Bone Ringer Now has a cap of 60 stacks. Developer Note: We never intended for this item to be used in a way where you farm stacks for an egregious amount of time (5+ minutes) and then watch all their health disappear in less than a second. It's not an engaging style of gameplay, and we don't want that experience to be the best way to play the Necromancer. Legacy of Dreams This gem is now more likely to drop from a Greater Rift Guardian Return to Top Monsters
      Blighter Blighter's Poison Tentacles' Area of Effect now hits less frequently, but at higher damage, when attacking players Return to Top
      Bug Fixes
      Wizard Archon Fixed an issue where certain item bonuses (such as from the item Deathwish) would persist between changing forms to/from Archon Developer's Note: A few patches ago, we stated we were going to continue to observe Bazooka Wizard to see its performance over time. Back then, we thought it would require a high level of skill to execute that would make it relatively less utilized as a hard, but rewarding, gameplay option. That hasn't been the case, as many feel it's too mandatory. In the context of this and other changes (like Bone Ringer and Chantodo's), we think it makes sense to make this change now. Spite Fixed an issue where casting Restless Giant would cause the 200% physical bonus damage to fail to apply when the Gargantuan enraged Squirt's Necklace Fixed an issue where some ground effects were causing the Squirt's Necklace buff to fall off despite being shielded Return to Top FAQ
      Q: When does Season 19 start?
      A: Season 19 begins Friday, November 22 at 5:00 p.m. PST in North America, 5:00 p.m. CET in Europe, and 5:00 p.m. KST in Asia. For time zone conversions, see this site.
      Q: When do Seasons go live for players on Xbox One, PlayStation 4, and Nintendo Switch?
      A: Seasons go live for all console players globally Friday, November 22 at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time, regardless of which regional version of the game you may have. Please note that Seasonal Leaderboards for Xbox One, PlayStation 4, and Nintendo Switch are still separate by hardware platform.
      Q: When will Season 19 end?
      A: We are no longer providing anticipated end dates for Seasons. However, we are committed to keeping Seasons roughly three months in length (give or take a few weeks based on development needs) and will continue to provide a minimum of two weeks advance notice for when the Season will be ending.
      Q: When are the non-Seasonal Leaderboards being wiped?
      A: Non-Seasonal Leaderboards are tied to what we call “Eras,” each of which lasts about 6–12 months. The most recent era began November 12. For more information on Eras, please see this post.
      Q: What will happen to older Seasonal and Era records?
      A: Starting with Season 10, we removed old personal bests from Season 1. When Season 19 arrives, we will remove old personal bests from Season 10, and so on. We will be doing the same for personal bests from the previous Era when the next one goes live.
      Seasonal Leaderboard records are not being cleared and will remain archived both in game and on our website.
      Return to Top
      Themed Seasons are continuing to evolve as we venture into the future, and we’re quite excited to see where this one leads. Are you looking forward to the Season of Eternal Conflict? Are you going to try one of the two new Class Sets? Gear up and get ready; we’ll see you in Season 19!
      Note: Beginning next week, comments on Diablo III blog entries will be disabled. This is part of our website migration for GDPR compliance. We apologize for the inconvenience; please continue your conversation over on our General Forum.

      As always, we'll have our guides ready for the season start, including the two new sets and new builds with all the added legendary powers.
       

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      The season starts on November 22nd and we get new cosmetic rewards for the journey!
    • By Starym
      While the season preview blog is coming today, along with the official release date, it seems almost certain we'll be seeing the Eternal Conflict start next Friday, November 22nd. Based on the below blue post by community manager Nevalistis, and the fact it makes perfect sense to choose the start of the weekend for the launch, it's a safe bet we'll be starting our next seasonal journey then (unless something major breaks). We've also gotten a more detailed explanation on why the season (and probably all future seasons) was delayed yesterday, in case you missed it.
      Meanwhile, you can check out the official live 2.6.7 patch notes.
      Season 19 Start (source)
      We tried, once, to launch a Season on a Thursday instead. We received immense amounts of community feedback that that was not optimal; many people like taking the day off for the Season start, and that’s a lot harder to do on a Thursday than the end of the week.
      We went back to Fridays and haven’t tried to mess with it since.
      Now, obviously there is a very slight possibility the above might also refer to the Friday 2 weeks from now, or that the blog reveals a new release day for seasons, but we'd still say you can start getting prepared for next Friday.
      The header image is by liuhao726 over on Artstation, and is fittingly called "The Eternal Conflict", same as as Season 19!


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    • By Starym
      Diablo community manager Nevalistis took to the forums to explain why Season 19, the Season of Eternal Conflict, won't be following suit with the previous to seasons and will be releasing a little later.

      In short, the devs decided they needed at least a week between patch and season launches to be able to properly address any issues that come up. The other important bit of news is that we'll be getting the season 19 preview blog tomorrow, where we'll also find out when the exact start date will be - presumably some time between Tuesday and Friday next week. We also found out that there may be more tweaks between the patch and season this time around.
      Meanwhile, as we wait for the season to start, here are the official patch 2.6.7 patch notes.
      Possible Tweaks Before Season 19 Start (source)
      Possibly. I have a meeting with the team later this afternoon, and if something comes out of that, I’ll be back to let you all know.
       
      Season 19 Release Date (source)
      It won’t be this Friday, and I’d like to take a moment to explain why.
      Early during Patch 2.6.7’s development, our engineering team raised concerns about the extremely small window in between patch launch and season launch. In short, they were concerned that, as often happens in software development, if something critically breaks with deployment of the patch, they might not have time to resolve it before the Season launches globally. Three days isn’t very long to create, test, and deploy a hotfix, assuming we receive reports of it quickly enough (and it’s actually less time - it’s closer to a little more than 2 days as the season launches at 5PM Friday in each region, and that occurs on Thursday our time for players in Asia).
      We decided the compromise was to have at least one week downtime between patch deployment and season start. That gives us a more forgiving window to address critical issues, should they arise, and we plan to continue using this format moving forward to ensure we’re launching each Season in as strong and stable a state as possible. It also allows us to provide a more reliable Season start date going forward.
      Communication this time around was lackluster, and that lands on me. I overestimated the amount of work I was capable of getting done in a very short, inflexible window. For that, you have my apology, and my team’s already making changes and adjustments to better address that for future Seasons.
      The Season preview blog is coming tomorrow, come hell or high water, which is what I’m currently putting the finishing touches on. ? That will include the Season start date. In the future, that blog will ideally land before patch launch (as it has in the past), which should give most of you a larger window for planning your Season start plans like taking time off or scheduling play time with a group. I’m taking ownership on and improving the things I have control over, and trying to plan better around those I do not.
      I love my Diablo community, and will always strive to do whatever I can to improve things for everyone.


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