Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Ezzme

Transitioning into Heroics and a raid leader dilemma.

Recommended Posts

Fairly long post inc...

 

So my guild is fairly newly formed, just started raiding together at the start of December and got our first Garrosh kill sometime at the end of December. We were fairly undergeared in a few at the start and have had our last DPS spot filled by multiple people due to recruits either not working out or showing up.  

 

We've one shoteverything on normal for the last few weeks and essentially only use up one of our 3 raid days (2-3 hours each) leaving a ton of time doing nothing but playing alts. Last week we did do 2 heroics (an hour each) but again had a spot which needed to be pugged forcing us to settle for an under geared player in an OS spec. We got very close to an Immerseus kill and realized after a few attempts Norushen was out of the question with the pug and still were able to finish up the instance with a day and a half of scheduled raid time left. 

 

This was our 1st week even attempting heroics and despite the set back our numbers seem to be on par with what I usually see other groups pulling in terms of DPS and Heals as we found a hopeful permanent DPS to fill our last position. I also like to think we're a quick learning group that knows what they're doing and can get a fight down with some attempts under our belt.

 

Our raid lead though is extremely reluctant to put in the attempts on bosses and being very conservative in that regard. This week he wants to do 3 bosses, Immerseus (which as I said is close and should go down quick), Norushen and Sha of Pride. We're hoping to spend 1hr each on these bosses which is essentially 1 raid day for us meaning we would again be left with a day + of nothing to do after full clearing Galakras+.

 

My suggestion was to do the 1st day as normal, but then spend the 2nd day attempting an extra boss in Galakras which looks to be a fairly simple fight in execution and then use the remaining few hours to clear the instance no matter the outcome of the first 5. I was quickly shot down as was another member from ourgroup by our raid leader and told we will do so next week. I informed him it makes no sense not to maximize our scheduled time when we need little to no gear from the normal mode bosses and can easily use our last day to clear dedicating the first 2 days to actual progression. 

 

So my question is, what is a good estimate in terms of gear and meter numbers to start full on heroic progression and how should I approach my raid lead about this issue. I know that as a group if the issue is brought up when we're all together most will side with what I've said. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without any knowledge of your raid comp 10 vs 25, i am assuming 10 man etc.

 

If you can kill Garrosh and are 1 shotting everythign else then you should have no gear problems doing the first 5 Heroic bosses(imo everything to malkorok has no real gear check). In order of ease (IMO) Norushen > Galakras > Immerseus > Protectors/Sha.

 

If you are clearing out that easily, as in one night/raid then why not spend 2 nights pushing progression then clear out on the third.

 

Execution is king for heroics and gear not so much until further along.

 

As for approaching the raid leader, i would suggest it to him/her and see the response you get. If the group wants to do it they will. Some guilds however aren't very progression orientated and the thought of 2/3 nights on progression is absurd and even more crazy would be extending a lockout!

 

Best advice for heroic progression is persist and dont change the strategy every 2 pulls. Look up the guides and videos that are out there and persist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brew makes excellent points. However the order of bosses I'd recommend myself is a little different, but then again the easy bosses are different for many people/guilds.

 

Our guild moved to heroics after our first garrosh kill maintaining the last of our three raid days as the normalclear, but we soon dropped even that and have recently just been focusing on heroics without clearing on the last day.

 

I'd personally suggest Immerseus - Norushen - Protectors - Sha/Galakras in the case you don't want to do them in order. Doing them in order is very viable too. Thats how we did it.

 

As far as tactics changes go the ones that have the least impact going from normal to HC would be Norushen and Protectors imo. They play out almost if not completely identical to normal tactics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we took a bit to get immersius and then worked protectors to get sharp. we have definitely taken it slow but now we kill 7 bosses on heroic in one day. group makeup is a big factor and strong players in certain roles can really carry a team on reg, but once you get to heroic holes can show up a lot easier.

 

the hierlooms from a full clear are tempting and it is nice to relax a bit. we have a lot of weeks before WoD. a little patience on your end might be necessary. especially if a decent number of people are missing a few things from the later bosses. i have run a group for a while now and the only thing that really bugs me is complaining. voicing concerns is one thing but bitching about a plan thats one week off from your expectations might be the wrong battle to pick.

 

you never know what kind of stuff ppl deal with irl. just keep voicing your concerns at the outset of each week, but do your rl a kindness and try not to complain once they say the matter is decided for that lockout. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies

 

We're a 10 man group, sorry for forgetting to give that information. Thanks for the advice, I had a feeling we've been moving slow due to watching a lot of the videos and higher end guilds progression. I know we're not them and they've been raiding together for a long time, etc... but 3 weeks of Garrosh farm with essentially an hour of heroics on 2 bosses is too slow imo. 

 

I see the avg ilvl other guilds are moving into heroics with and I see us on par or even ahead in many cases in terms of gear and the fact we have nothing down is what prompted me to start asking if we can start doing some real progression. 

 

Our group avg ilvl is probably around 560, if not a point of so below. When I mentioned needing items I probably could have been more clear, for the most part the things people want are more for BIS chasing and not replacing raid finder gear or anything like that. Our healers do their jobs well, our tanks as well and our DPS is in a good spot too.

 

And as  Brew said the first 5 are fairly simple fights that I've watched a ton of footage and and see more as just a matter of time/attempts put in instead of a gear check. Our raid leader is fairly pessimistic being extremely negative and underestimating our guilds capabilities, he's not a dick or anything it's just this isn't the first time where he lowballs us as a group. 

 

He's 9/14H due to getting a spot in another guild on his other toon, I feel as if them having the first few fights on farm has skewed the way he looks at progression. Thinking we need to get BIS pieces in every slot for every player and not downing it in a few hours being a failure we can't recover from.

 

He's never really raid led and is sort of stubborn but he's a fairly good friend who've I've been playing multiple games with for years and i'm sure that with something like your guys suggestions he can be persuaded to push a bit harder. I feel this is an important thing to fix now as we hope/plan to start off WoD pretty quickly and i'd rather not run into us waiting to progress due to unwarranted precaution.

Edited by Ezzme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo, only farm for normal BiS if you don't even plan to go heroic, as in most cases the ilvl increase warrants an upgrade anyway. And the ilvl of your raid group is more than enough to move on to heroics.

 

Seeing he's been doing heroics already they might be easy for him on a personal level but as a raidleader he needs to acknowledge that it might not be so for the rest, and be prepared to go through the progressing process again.

Edited by Ceraius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are good friends then perhaps approach him alone before or after raid. Do a bit of research yourself and go to him with a solution rather than a problem. Have a look at optimal norushen rotations, look at galakras groups for tower/interrupts.

This might help it along.

You can also possibly approach your friend about being a co leader and talk about the direction the raid team is aiming for. Heroic? Casual? Get on the same page and push forward.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the first few times we killed immersius, it was as he enraged. and protectors put us through a lot of wipes, but wiping on heroic is the only way to sharpen up to the requirements of heroic. my group has what most would consider a pretty bad comp for a ten man, 3 mdps and no warlock, but we still do alright. i dont think 3 normal clears is totally insane. i dont think its that bad to do 5 clears before just doing heroics all week.

 

at 560 if everyone has at least one good trink and a weapon, thats pretty much geared enough. one thing i did enjoy doing when my group first started heroics was bringing my dk in for a reg spoils kill. after that we just worked on heroics until there was 2 hours left on our last day and we would start up on reg at thok with the dks id. just have the id toon reform the group as lead, reset all instances and walk in first. hearth when you get a few more ppl inside and hop over to your main. the id toon can hold the id indefinitely and nobody has to miss out on trinks, tier, and heirlooms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Babblet
      About us:
      Looking for a new raiding home? <Concordant> on Turalyon is recruiting! We are a progression oriented guild consisting of working adults (18+). We work to conquer as much raid content as possible during our set schedule, as well as Mythic 10+ keys every week. We are a long-running guild that values high attendance, positive raiding attitude, personal effort, and a friendly, team focused raid environment.
      Raid Times: Tuesday and Thursday 8:30 - 11:30 PM EST
      Progression: https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/turalyon/Concordant
      Recruitment Needs:
      Blood DK Brewmaster Monk Rogue Shadow Priest Windwalker Monk We also consider other classes!
       
      Contact on Battle.net or Discord only, do not respond or send PMs on Icy-Veins.
    • By Athlios
      GUILD INFORMATION:
      Guild name: Gordian Knot
      Faction: Horde
      Realm: Draenor (EU)
      Realm Type: Normal - PVE
      Current progress: EP 3/8M
      Raid days: Wednesday, Sunday, Monday
      Raid times: 20.00-23.00 CET
      Website: https://gordian-knot.eu/
      (Full application details on website)
      RECRUITING FOR BFA RAIDING:
      High Demand:
      Demon Hunter: Havoc Druid: Balance Mage: All specs Monk: Brewmaster Paladin: Protection & Holy Priest: Shadow & Disc Warrior: All specs Medium Demand:
      None at the moment Low Demand:
      Monk: Windwalker Shaman: Elemental Warlock: Destruction Also, in order to be able to join our main team straight away, you need to meet the requirement for our current progress, which are around 430+ item level equiped and around 60+ levels on your necklace.
      We are also open to discuss a possible merge and get a smaller group or guild that is struggling to get their raids goins, or that they want to advance to the next level. Most of us are versatile people and we can possibly reroll to achieve a good compasition after a merge.
      Any social and friendly person who wants to join us for kicks and giggles is welcome. Just poke any of our officers online and you will get an invite for a social spot (no raiding spot).
      ABOUT US:
      Gordian Knot is a 20-man semi-hardcore raiding guild that consists of experienced raiders with some of them having raiding experience as far back as Vanilla.
      We are a friendly group who enjoys World of Warcraft and loves raiding. We have fun and joke around but when bosses need to go down then all is serious! We wish for all our members to enjoy the game as much as we do and we expect raiders to maintain a 80% attendance per month.
      We also enjoy a variety of other activities such as running a lot of Mythic+ dungeons doing alt-runs, achievement runs etc.
      There are a few things we hold in high value but above else we value friendliness and politeness towards guildies and other players and skillfulness when it comes to the more serious parts of the game.
      CURRENTLY:
      We raid 3 nights a week, Wednesdays, Sundays and Mondays, from 20:00 till 23:00 server time.
      Although we are a 20-man guild, we usually run an extra group in order to get more people to experience the joys of raiding, help new raiders learn the Knot's way to down bosses and gearing up. Usually, these runs happen on Thursdays. Also, every Friday and sometimes Saturdays too, we're on RBGs killing alliance scums!
      Saturdays are generally left for those RBGs or older content runs for fun and drinking!
      Our current guild progress is 3/8 in The Eternal Palace mythic, and we're focusing on getting further Mythic progress. Our aim is to always progress as much as possible but also to have a relaxed and fun atmosphere at the same time!
      If you're interested in joining Gordian Knot, please fill in our application form, located at https://gordian-knot.eu/apply/, alternatively please whisper one of our officers:

      On Bnet:
      Leleko - Leleko#2235
      Narweena - Sephyra#2517
      Illyaveil - illyayayaya#2547
      On Discord:
      Leleko - Leleko#7934
      Narweena - Narweena#7029
      Illyaveil - illyaveil#0165
      PS. We're always open to group applications or guild merging discussions.
      We are also open and welcome social applications.
    • By Ketanjal
      Region : Europe
      Server : Tarren-Mill
      Faction : Horde
       
      Raid Schedule : Monday and Wednesday 20:00-23:00 (Server Time) (19:45 invites)
       
      Raid Progression : 2/8M EP, 3/9M BoD, 2/2HC CoS and 2/8M Uldir
       
      We are looking for:
      For 1 Ranged DPS:
      Boomkin, Mage or Shadow Priest
      For 1 Healer:
      Holy Paladin, Mistweaver Monk or any exceptional other class.
       
      Currently our raid team exists of friends that have been playing for more than a year together and want to keep playing together. Our team currently is a roster of 24 and we are looking to get the number high enough so we can maintain a constant roster of 20 man. Once we are over the 20 man we will start using a schedule where we will rotate our raiders so everybody gets a spot and gets used to the fights.
       
      Since we got curved we would love to get to at least half the bosses in mythic and just have fun whilst going for the challenges.
       
      Raid Days (Server Time) :
      Monday : 20:00 - 23:00
      Wednesday: 20:00 - 23:00
      Invites start at 19:45
       
      What we can offer and want :
      A guild with a fun and alive raid environment
      Dedicated guildies with a focused mind-set
      Helpful guildies on classes, M+, tips
       
      What we expect :
      A friendly player
      A dedicated player
      Knowledge of your class or showing a willingness to learn
       
      We want to play to the best of our abilities and know as much as we can about our classes and current/upcoming raids so we are ahead of the curve.
       
      From this we hope to learn from others and meet new friendly faces to add to our growing team.
       
      Should you have any questions please feel free to contact us on Discord or Battlenet. Even if your class is not mentioned above but are ranged
       
      Keta#9560 / Ketanjal#2240
      Pipjim#6874
       
    • By Lsguild
      [Alliance] <Ludicrous Speed> Oceanic - PvP - Arugal
      Discord: RwDtRjV
      Raid Schedule: AET (GMT/UTC +10-11) 
      Wednesday + Thursday 21:00-24:00
      Sunday 20:00-24:00
      These times are reserved for later content patches (AQ, Naxx). Early raid content will require less time investment (1-2 days per week).
      Loot: DKP. Tank items will be Loot Council when necessary for progression.
      About us:
      [A]<Ludicrous Speed> is now recruiting! Established in anticipation of Classic WoW, we are a PvE raiding guild made up of long-time WoW players and veterans of the vanilla private server scene. Our focus is on getting things done, yet doing so without burning out and forgetting it's a game. We're an older crowd, mainly professional adults, and are understanding of real life commitments. If you're looking for a fun and relaxed group to clear content with, please read on!
      What we offer:
      A laid-back and fun raiding environment Knowledgeable and experienced leadership Unbiased and transparent loot distribution
      Ideal Candidates:
      Mature, 18yrs+ Have a mic and are able to communicate in English Understanding of basic class mechanics Prepared and on time to raid with proper talents (hybrids will be expected to heal) Positive Attitude - No negative/toxic players
      Apply @ Our Discord!
      https://discord.gg/RwDtRjV
    • By TrioDeFo
      NA/Horde/Hardcore/Loot Council/PvP

      Guild Name: <Dead Naga Storage>
      Faction: Horde
      Realm & Realm Type: PvP (EST) [Exact server is still undecided due to streamers and quick filling up of servers. We will know for sure by Sunday 8/25 2 days before launch]
      Play style: Hardcore, Semi-Hardcore, Casual (Casual recruitment may change later)
      Focus: Both HC Raid progression, and HC WPvP+PvP progression. Need to fill multiple 40m raid teams and multiple PvP teams.

      Class Needs:
      We are still recruiting all players of all kinds atm. We encourage you to play what you want and what is fun for you. This is just a list of the classes we want and need for our guild and to have for our core Raid and core PvP teams. (As of now we need ALL classes, this list is expected to change as we recruit more)

      • Druid – any spec
      • Hunter – any spec
      • Mage – any spec
      • Priest – any spec
      • Rogue - any spec
      • Shaman – any spec
      • Warlock – any spec
      • Warrior – any spec

      Introduction: 
      Dead Naga Storage is a guild build specifically for the launch of WoW Classic. GET EXCITED! We were a very powerful and progressive filled guild back in the original Vanilla days in 2005. We have great guild leadership experience and Raid and PvP leadership experience as well as BG shot calling since 2005 – present day. We are a PvE-focused progression and PvP inspired guild interested in filling our teams with dedicated members who are willing to be available and dedicate themselves to learn their roles and characters for our core 40m Raid and WPvP groups. We plan on having quite a few raid and pvp teams set up within a couple weeks or months. Our members are expected to clearly and consistently put forth effort to be as knowledgeable as possible on their class, BiS, be mature, and skilled players. We want you to be competitive!! Our leaders have a lot of experience in clearing major raids like MC, BWL, Onyx, Zul Gurub, AQ and Naxx so you know you’re joining a great guild. MC we will be going in at week 1 of raid launch! We also want our members, during the beginning of the launch, to help with grouping up for quick and easy dungeon clears and group quests or ganking help. We are first and foremost a family here and protect each other!

      Goals: Ultimately, our goal is to efficiently complete all raid content that WoW Classic has to offer! NO EXCEPTIONS! We aim to keep a lean, tight-knit, fun, and mature guild we can all call home and be proud of! When we are not raiding, be expected to push high-tier PvP ranks through coordinated team in BG’s and WPvP! Be ready day 1! Once we have a significant amount at level cap, we will start gearing together for MC clears and halting Alliance groups at the gates! NOTE: We will also be forming Devilsaur Mafia and control the loot for our guild! WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR, AND DO NOT WANT ANY SELF SERVING PLAYERS… THIS IS TEAM BASED PROGRESSION GUILD!

      PvE – What we are looking for specifically: Solid players who are interested in pushing content while also being afforded the option of a flexible raid schedule. We want people who want to be a part of a community. We are looking currently for Class Leaders, Raid Leaders, and PvP Leaders for our multiple groups. At first lets focus on leveling up and having fun! We will be in MC on week 1 or 2 of launching. We are currently accepting players of all classes and roles. ATM our raid times will be projected around 8:00 p.m. EST (times may change accordingly)

      PvP – What we are looking for specifically: Serious players who are looking to push ranks very early on and either know the Honor system or be willing to learn it. Accepting players of all classes and roles currently. We are actively looking for PvP/Premade Leaders as well.

      Loot System: Loot Council system.

      Questions or Apply??
      Message TrioDeFo#11658 or MinchMeister#1785 on b.net or reply on this thread.
      Contact Info:
      Discord - TrioDeFo#0332
      BTag - TrioDeFo#11658

      Website and Discord:
      Currently rebuilding our website and discord! Stay tuned! They will be up and running before launch day!

      GUILD MASTERS - TrioDeFo#11658, MinchMeister#1785
×
×
  • Create New...