Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Ezzme

Transitioning into Heroics and a raid leader dilemma.

Recommended Posts

Fairly long post inc...

 

So my guild is fairly newly formed, just started raiding together at the start of December and got our first Garrosh kill sometime at the end of December. We were fairly undergeared in a few at the start and have had our last DPS spot filled by multiple people due to recruits either not working out or showing up.  

 

We've one shoteverything on normal for the last few weeks and essentially only use up one of our 3 raid days (2-3 hours each) leaving a ton of time doing nothing but playing alts. Last week we did do 2 heroics (an hour each) but again had a spot which needed to be pugged forcing us to settle for an under geared player in an OS spec. We got very close to an Immerseus kill and realized after a few attempts Norushen was out of the question with the pug and still were able to finish up the instance with a day and a half of scheduled raid time left. 

 

This was our 1st week even attempting heroics and despite the set back our numbers seem to be on par with what I usually see other groups pulling in terms of DPS and Heals as we found a hopeful permanent DPS to fill our last position. I also like to think we're a quick learning group that knows what they're doing and can get a fight down with some attempts under our belt.

 

Our raid lead though is extremely reluctant to put in the attempts on bosses and being very conservative in that regard. This week he wants to do 3 bosses, Immerseus (which as I said is close and should go down quick), Norushen and Sha of Pride. We're hoping to spend 1hr each on these bosses which is essentially 1 raid day for us meaning we would again be left with a day + of nothing to do after full clearing Galakras+.

 

My suggestion was to do the 1st day as normal, but then spend the 2nd day attempting an extra boss in Galakras which looks to be a fairly simple fight in execution and then use the remaining few hours to clear the instance no matter the outcome of the first 5. I was quickly shot down as was another member from ourgroup by our raid leader and told we will do so next week. I informed him it makes no sense not to maximize our scheduled time when we need little to no gear from the normal mode bosses and can easily use our last day to clear dedicating the first 2 days to actual progression. 

 

So my question is, what is a good estimate in terms of gear and meter numbers to start full on heroic progression and how should I approach my raid lead about this issue. I know that as a group if the issue is brought up when we're all together most will side with what I've said. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without any knowledge of your raid comp 10 vs 25, i am assuming 10 man etc.

 

If you can kill Garrosh and are 1 shotting everythign else then you should have no gear problems doing the first 5 Heroic bosses(imo everything to malkorok has no real gear check). In order of ease (IMO) Norushen > Galakras > Immerseus > Protectors/Sha.

 

If you are clearing out that easily, as in one night/raid then why not spend 2 nights pushing progression then clear out on the third.

 

Execution is king for heroics and gear not so much until further along.

 

As for approaching the raid leader, i would suggest it to him/her and see the response you get. If the group wants to do it they will. Some guilds however aren't very progression orientated and the thought of 2/3 nights on progression is absurd and even more crazy would be extending a lockout!

 

Best advice for heroic progression is persist and dont change the strategy every 2 pulls. Look up the guides and videos that are out there and persist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brew makes excellent points. However the order of bosses I'd recommend myself is a little different, but then again the easy bosses are different for many people/guilds.

 

Our guild moved to heroics after our first garrosh kill maintaining the last of our three raid days as the normalclear, but we soon dropped even that and have recently just been focusing on heroics without clearing on the last day.

 

I'd personally suggest Immerseus - Norushen - Protectors - Sha/Galakras in the case you don't want to do them in order. Doing them in order is very viable too. Thats how we did it.

 

As far as tactics changes go the ones that have the least impact going from normal to HC would be Norushen and Protectors imo. They play out almost if not completely identical to normal tactics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we took a bit to get immersius and then worked protectors to get sharp. we have definitely taken it slow but now we kill 7 bosses on heroic in one day. group makeup is a big factor and strong players in certain roles can really carry a team on reg, but once you get to heroic holes can show up a lot easier.

 

the hierlooms from a full clear are tempting and it is nice to relax a bit. we have a lot of weeks before WoD. a little patience on your end might be necessary. especially if a decent number of people are missing a few things from the later bosses. i have run a group for a while now and the only thing that really bugs me is complaining. voicing concerns is one thing but bitching about a plan thats one week off from your expectations might be the wrong battle to pick.

 

you never know what kind of stuff ppl deal with irl. just keep voicing your concerns at the outset of each week, but do your rl a kindness and try not to complain once they say the matter is decided for that lockout. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies

 

We're a 10 man group, sorry for forgetting to give that information. Thanks for the advice, I had a feeling we've been moving slow due to watching a lot of the videos and higher end guilds progression. I know we're not them and they've been raiding together for a long time, etc... but 3 weeks of Garrosh farm with essentially an hour of heroics on 2 bosses is too slow imo. 

 

I see the avg ilvl other guilds are moving into heroics with and I see us on par or even ahead in many cases in terms of gear and the fact we have nothing down is what prompted me to start asking if we can start doing some real progression. 

 

Our group avg ilvl is probably around 560, if not a point of so below. When I mentioned needing items I probably could have been more clear, for the most part the things people want are more for BIS chasing and not replacing raid finder gear or anything like that. Our healers do their jobs well, our tanks as well and our DPS is in a good spot too.

 

And as  Brew said the first 5 are fairly simple fights that I've watched a ton of footage and and see more as just a matter of time/attempts put in instead of a gear check. Our raid leader is fairly pessimistic being extremely negative and underestimating our guilds capabilities, he's not a dick or anything it's just this isn't the first time where he lowballs us as a group. 

 

He's 9/14H due to getting a spot in another guild on his other toon, I feel as if them having the first few fights on farm has skewed the way he looks at progression. Thinking we need to get BIS pieces in every slot for every player and not downing it in a few hours being a failure we can't recover from.

 

He's never really raid led and is sort of stubborn but he's a fairly good friend who've I've been playing multiple games with for years and i'm sure that with something like your guys suggestions he can be persuaded to push a bit harder. I feel this is an important thing to fix now as we hope/plan to start off WoD pretty quickly and i'd rather not run into us waiting to progress due to unwarranted precaution.

Edited by Ezzme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo, only farm for normal BiS if you don't even plan to go heroic, as in most cases the ilvl increase warrants an upgrade anyway. And the ilvl of your raid group is more than enough to move on to heroics.

 

Seeing he's been doing heroics already they might be easy for him on a personal level but as a raidleader he needs to acknowledge that it might not be so for the rest, and be prepared to go through the progressing process again.

Edited by Ceraius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are good friends then perhaps approach him alone before or after raid. Do a bit of research yourself and go to him with a solution rather than a problem. Have a look at optimal norushen rotations, look at galakras groups for tower/interrupts.

This might help it along.

You can also possibly approach your friend about being a co leader and talk about the direction the raid team is aiming for. Heroic? Casual? Get on the same page and push forward.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the first few times we killed immersius, it was as he enraged. and protectors put us through a lot of wipes, but wiping on heroic is the only way to sharpen up to the requirements of heroic. my group has what most would consider a pretty bad comp for a ten man, 3 mdps and no warlock, but we still do alright. i dont think 3 normal clears is totally insane. i dont think its that bad to do 5 clears before just doing heroics all week.

 

at 560 if everyone has at least one good trink and a weapon, thats pretty much geared enough. one thing i did enjoy doing when my group first started heroics was bringing my dk in for a reg spoils kill. after that we just worked on heroics until there was 2 hours left on our last day and we would start up on reg at thok with the dks id. just have the id toon reform the group as lead, reset all instances and walk in first. hearth when you get a few more ppl inside and hop over to your main. the id toon can hold the id indefinitely and nobody has to miss out on trinks, tier, and heirlooms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Athlios
      GUILD INFORMATION:
      Guild name: Gordian Knot
      Faction: Horde
      Realm: Draenor (EU)
      Realm Type: Normal - PVE
      Current progress: Ny'alotha 11/12M
      Raid days: Wednesday, Sunday, Monday
      Raid times: 20.00-23.00 CET
      Website: https://gordian-knot.eu/
      (Full application details on website)
      RECRUITING FOR BFA RAIDING:
      High Demand
       Priest: Shadow Medium Demand:
       Mage: All specs  Shaman: Elemental  Warlock: All specs Low Demand
      None at the moment Also, in order to be able to join our main team straight away, you need to meet the requirement for our current progress, which are around 470+ item level equipped, around 90+ levels on your necklace and the least rank 15 and 107 corruption resistance on your cloak.
      We are also open to discuss a possible merge and get a smaller group or guild that is struggling to get their raids going, or that they want to advance to the next level. Most of us are versatile people and we can possibly reroll to achieve a good composition after a merge.
      Any social and friendly person who wants to join us for kicks and giggles is welcome. Just poke any of our officers online and you will get an invite for a social spot (no raiding spot).
      ABOUT US:
      Gordian Knot is a semi-hardcore raiding guild that consists of experienced raiders with some of them having raiding experience as far back as Vanilla.
      We are a friendly group who enjoys World of Warcraft and loves raiding. We have fun and joke around but when bosses need to go down then all is serious! We wish for all our members to enjoy the game as much as we do and we expect raiders to maintain a 80% attendance per month.
      We also enjoy a variety of other activities such as running a lot of Mythic+ dungeons doing alt-runs, achievement runs etc.
      We generally aim to push Mythic+ to get +15 keys done for the weekly chests. We do this in spirit to help everyone in the guild getting their highest possible gear reward from their weekly cache (socials included).
      There are a few things we hold in high value but above else we value friendliness and politeness towards guildies and other players and skilfulness when it comes to the more serious parts of the game.
      CURRENTLY:
      We raid 3 nights a week, Wednesdays, Sundays and Mondays, from 20:00 till 23:00 server time.
      Although we are a 20-man guild, we usually run an extra group in order to get more people to experience the joys of raiding, help new raiders learn the Knot’s way to down bosses and gearing up. Usually, these runs happen on Saturdays. Also, every Friday and sometimes Thursdays too, we’re on RBGs killing alliance scums or on other in game activities!
      Our current guild progress is 11/12 in Ny'alotha mythic, and we're focusing on getting further Mythic progress. Our aim is to always progress as much as possible but also to have a relaxed and fun atmosphere at the same time!
      If you're interested in joining Gordian Knot, please fill in our application form, located at https://gordian-knot.eu/apply/, alternatively please whisper one of our officers:

      On Bnet:
      Leleko - Leleko#2235
      Narweena - Sephyra#2517
      Skilhunter - SkilDome#2573
      Snootdog - Demonic#2375
      On Discord:
      Leleko - Leleko#7934
      Narweena - Narweena#7029
      Skilhunter - Skildome#8766
      Snootdog - Snoot#1840
      PS. We're always open to group applications or guild merging discussions.
      We are also open and welcome social applications.
    • By Shenocide
      Impressive...
    • By Ser3nity
      Safety not Guaranteed is an English speaking Alliance raiding guild on Emerald Dream. We raid 3 times a week and are mainly focused on mythic raiding.
      Current Progress:
      11/12M Ny'alotha
      Recruitment:
      We're currently progressing on N'zoth with a set team of raiders so keep this in mind when applying. Your application will still be considered for farm content and Shadowlands, though very exceptional applications which may be placed into current N'zoth progression team. Thank you
      Ranged DPS: Priest, Warlock, Hunter, Mage
      Melee DPS: None
      Healers: None
      Our raiding schedule is:
      - Thursday: 20.00 - 23.00 (server time)
      - Monday: 20.00 - 23.00 (server time)
      - Tuesday: 20.00 - 23.00 (server time)
      Apply here: https://safetynotguaranteed.wixsite.com/guild
      Even if we are not actively recruiting your class, we will consider any exceptional applications.
      About us:
      Safety not Guaranteed (SnG) was initially formed by a small group of friends in early MoP, raiding 10man heroic. Later during the expansion we expanded our roster to a 20man team, where we cleared SoO mythic as a guild. Many of us have been playing together since as early as WotLK, and have friendships with each other that extend outside the game as well.
      Our goal ever since the guild was formed has been to progress through content at a steady pace without hardcore hours, while having a good time. We aim to clear each tier before the next one is released, and have managed to maintain a steady raiding roster throughout the years, clearing most mythic content in WoD and Legion with cutting edge achievements, and plan to continue doing so in BfA.
      What we offer:
      A structured mythic raiding team and raiding times. We start invites 19:45 and begin to clear trash so we can have the first pulls at 20:00 A steady guild with a good community and good guild atmosphere. You may encounter some trolling during your stay. A focused attitude during progression, and relaxed attitude during farm content. We like to chat and have fun, but focus during difficult content. A desire to raid. We often run an extra raid day on the 1st week of a new raid tier. This is 100% optional, but most people are excited to get into a new instance. Additionally we often run some sort of alt raids on the weekends (100% optional), and do a lot of mythic+ content within the guild.
      What we want from you:
      Attendance. We expect a minimum of 80% attendance, though most of our raiders have near to 100%. We run a small roster to minimize rotation, and want to be able to rely on you. Commitment. We don't want someone who is looking to join, get geared and then leave. We have a 2-3 week trial period during which we will control gearing while we get to know you. Honesty. If you're having problems within the guild, or have real life issues, we'd like to hear rather than you just disappearing. Talk to us. Be prepared! This means reading up on new fights, having consumables (flask, pots, food, runes), gemming and enchanting properly, and being on time! Communication. We want you to know how to communicate both verbally and in writing. We have a guild Discord we use for our raids and other games! Raiding awareness. We want you to not stand in fire, unless it's required... Progression oriented attitude. Everyone makes mistakes, but learning is part of progression, so we value people who continue to improve over time. Understanding. Sometimes, things don't always go smoothly. We may hit a wall on a specific boss for a while, or you may have to sit for someone else during a progression raid. This is part of mythic raiding. We try to treat everyone fairly, and are open to feedback.
      For more information you can add an officer to chat: Joana#2806, Kitty#2896, Menetherin#2691, Cabbageman#21462
      Or visit our website: https://safetynotguaranteed.wixsite.com/guild
    • By Babblet
      About us:
      Looking for a new raiding home? <Concordant> on Turalyon is recruiting! We are a progression oriented guild consisting of working adults (18+). We work to conquer as much raid content as possible during our set schedule, as well as Mythic 10+ keys every week. We are a long-running guild that values high attendance, positive raiding attitude, personal effort, and a friendly, team focused raid environment.
      Raid Times: Tuesday and Thursday 8:30 - 11:30 PM EST
      Progression: https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/turalyon/Concordant
      Recruitment Needs:
      Hunter Fire Mage Rogue Shadow Priest Warlock  
      We also consider other classes!
       
      Contact on Battle.net or Discord only, do not respond or send PMs on Icy-Veins.
    • By Soppis
      Alliance guild formed for Legion
      Soppa is a "Finnish only guild" that aims to have a good time. Now please pardon my language:
      Soppa etsii lisää sekoittajia Shadowlandsiä varten! Realm: Sylvanas
      Soppa on Sylvanas (EU) akselin harvoja aktiivisia Alliancen Suomi-kiltoja. Olemme kiltana saavuttaneet kaikki Curvet, joka on tavoitteemme.
      Tavoitteenamme on myös pitää hauskaa pelin sisällä (ja ulkopuolella), hyvällä ryhmähengellä.
      Kilta perustettu, jotta löytyisi aina Suomalaista peliseuraa, jokaiseen pelin aktiviteettiin. Raideille tai muuhunkaan ei ole pakko osallistua.
      Kiltamme ei myöskään rajoitu ainoastaan WoWiin, pelaamme muitakin pelejä porukalla.
      Jäsenvaatimuksena rehteys, kypsyys ja edes kohtalainen huumorintaju.
      Päätökset tehdään suhteellisen demokraattisesti. Killan on tarkoitus olla vähän vapaamuotoisempi.
      Progress Normal/HC sitä mukaa, miten sopivalta tuntuu. Ei paineita. Päämääränä on clearata jokainen raidi HC:lla.
      Raidit KE klo 19:00-22:00. ja SU 18:00-22:00 (Muutoksia mahd. luvassa)
      Alt-run ja pugituksia muinakin päivinä sekä Mythic+ luolastoja juostaan killan sisäisesti ja ulkoisesti.
      PS. keskustelut käydään yleensä Discordissa - harvoin kilta-chatissä.
      Osallistumiseen ei tällä hetkellä ole muita erityisiä kriteerejä kuin, että osaat pelata spekillä millä aiot kiltaan liittyä ja ymmärrät miten raidimekaniikat toimivat yleisellä tasolla.
      Jokainen tekee virheitä, mutta erityisesti toivomme, että näistä virheistä myös opitaan eikä niitä jatkuvasti toisteta.
      Hakemukset: Soppis#2450 tai Erggi#2761 - tai kenelle tahansa kiltalaiselle pelin sisällä.
       
×
×
  • Create New...