Ezzme

Transitioning into Heroics and a raid leader dilemma.

Sign in to follow this  

8 posts in this topic

Fairly long post inc...

 

So my guild is fairly newly formed, just started raiding together at the start of December and got our first Garrosh kill sometime at the end of December. We were fairly undergeared in a few at the start and have had our last DPS spot filled by multiple people due to recruits either not working out or showing up.  

 

We've one shoteverything on normal for the last few weeks and essentially only use up one of our 3 raid days (2-3 hours each) leaving a ton of time doing nothing but playing alts. Last week we did do 2 heroics (an hour each) but again had a spot which needed to be pugged forcing us to settle for an under geared player in an OS spec. We got very close to an Immerseus kill and realized after a few attempts Norushen was out of the question with the pug and still were able to finish up the instance with a day and a half of scheduled raid time left. 

 

This was our 1st week even attempting heroics and despite the set back our numbers seem to be on par with what I usually see other groups pulling in terms of DPS and Heals as we found a hopeful permanent DPS to fill our last position. I also like to think we're a quick learning group that knows what they're doing and can get a fight down with some attempts under our belt.

 

Our raid lead though is extremely reluctant to put in the attempts on bosses and being very conservative in that regard. This week he wants to do 3 bosses, Immerseus (which as I said is close and should go down quick), Norushen and Sha of Pride. We're hoping to spend 1hr each on these bosses which is essentially 1 raid day for us meaning we would again be left with a day + of nothing to do after full clearing Galakras+.

 

My suggestion was to do the 1st day as normal, but then spend the 2nd day attempting an extra boss in Galakras which looks to be a fairly simple fight in execution and then use the remaining few hours to clear the instance no matter the outcome of the first 5. I was quickly shot down as was another member from ourgroup by our raid leader and told we will do so next week. I informed him it makes no sense not to maximize our scheduled time when we need little to no gear from the normal mode bosses and can easily use our last day to clear dedicating the first 2 days to actual progression. 

 

So my question is, what is a good estimate in terms of gear and meter numbers to start full on heroic progression and how should I approach my raid lead about this issue. I know that as a group if the issue is brought up when we're all together most will side with what I've said. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without any knowledge of your raid comp 10 vs 25, i am assuming 10 man etc.

 

If you can kill Garrosh and are 1 shotting everythign else then you should have no gear problems doing the first 5 Heroic bosses(imo everything to malkorok has no real gear check). In order of ease (IMO) Norushen > Galakras > Immerseus > Protectors/Sha.

 

If you are clearing out that easily, as in one night/raid then why not spend 2 nights pushing progression then clear out on the third.

 

Execution is king for heroics and gear not so much until further along.

 

As for approaching the raid leader, i would suggest it to him/her and see the response you get. If the group wants to do it they will. Some guilds however aren't very progression orientated and the thought of 2/3 nights on progression is absurd and even more crazy would be extending a lockout!

 

Best advice for heroic progression is persist and dont change the strategy every 2 pulls. Look up the guides and videos that are out there and persist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brew makes excellent points. However the order of bosses I'd recommend myself is a little different, but then again the easy bosses are different for many people/guilds.

 

Our guild moved to heroics after our first garrosh kill maintaining the last of our three raid days as the normalclear, but we soon dropped even that and have recently just been focusing on heroics without clearing on the last day.

 

I'd personally suggest Immerseus - Norushen - Protectors - Sha/Galakras in the case you don't want to do them in order. Doing them in order is very viable too. Thats how we did it.

 

As far as tactics changes go the ones that have the least impact going from normal to HC would be Norushen and Protectors imo. They play out almost if not completely identical to normal tactics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we took a bit to get immersius and then worked protectors to get sharp. we have definitely taken it slow but now we kill 7 bosses on heroic in one day. group makeup is a big factor and strong players in certain roles can really carry a team on reg, but once you get to heroic holes can show up a lot easier.

 

the hierlooms from a full clear are tempting and it is nice to relax a bit. we have a lot of weeks before WoD. a little patience on your end might be necessary. especially if a decent number of people are missing a few things from the later bosses. i have run a group for a while now and the only thing that really bugs me is complaining. voicing concerns is one thing but bitching about a plan thats one week off from your expectations might be the wrong battle to pick.

 

you never know what kind of stuff ppl deal with irl. just keep voicing your concerns at the outset of each week, but do your rl a kindness and try not to complain once they say the matter is decided for that lockout. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies

 

We're a 10 man group, sorry for forgetting to give that information. Thanks for the advice, I had a feeling we've been moving slow due to watching a lot of the videos and higher end guilds progression. I know we're not them and they've been raiding together for a long time, etc... but 3 weeks of Garrosh farm with essentially an hour of heroics on 2 bosses is too slow imo. 

 

I see the avg ilvl other guilds are moving into heroics with and I see us on par or even ahead in many cases in terms of gear and the fact we have nothing down is what prompted me to start asking if we can start doing some real progression. 

 

Our group avg ilvl is probably around 560, if not a point of so below. When I mentioned needing items I probably could have been more clear, for the most part the things people want are more for BIS chasing and not replacing raid finder gear or anything like that. Our healers do their jobs well, our tanks as well and our DPS is in a good spot too.

 

And as  Brew said the first 5 are fairly simple fights that I've watched a ton of footage and and see more as just a matter of time/attempts put in instead of a gear check. Our raid leader is fairly pessimistic being extremely negative and underestimating our guilds capabilities, he's not a dick or anything it's just this isn't the first time where he lowballs us as a group. 

 

He's 9/14H due to getting a spot in another guild on his other toon, I feel as if them having the first few fights on farm has skewed the way he looks at progression. Thinking we need to get BIS pieces in every slot for every player and not downing it in a few hours being a failure we can't recover from.

 

He's never really raid led and is sort of stubborn but he's a fairly good friend who've I've been playing multiple games with for years and i'm sure that with something like your guys suggestions he can be persuaded to push a bit harder. I feel this is an important thing to fix now as we hope/plan to start off WoD pretty quickly and i'd rather not run into us waiting to progress due to unwarranted precaution.

Edited by Ezzme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imo, only farm for normal BiS if you don't even plan to go heroic, as in most cases the ilvl increase warrants an upgrade anyway. And the ilvl of your raid group is more than enough to move on to heroics.

 

Seeing he's been doing heroics already they might be easy for him on a personal level but as a raidleader he needs to acknowledge that it might not be so for the rest, and be prepared to go through the progressing process again.

Edited by Ceraius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are good friends then perhaps approach him alone before or after raid. Do a bit of research yourself and go to him with a solution rather than a problem. Have a look at optimal norushen rotations, look at galakras groups for tower/interrupts.

This might help it along.

You can also possibly approach your friend about being a co leader and talk about the direction the raid team is aiming for. Heroic? Casual? Get on the same page and push forward.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the first few times we killed immersius, it was as he enraged. and protectors put us through a lot of wipes, but wiping on heroic is the only way to sharpen up to the requirements of heroic. my group has what most would consider a pretty bad comp for a ten man, 3 mdps and no warlock, but we still do alright. i dont think 3 normal clears is totally insane. i dont think its that bad to do 5 clears before just doing heroics all week.

 

at 560 if everyone has at least one good trink and a weapon, thats pretty much geared enough. one thing i did enjoy doing when my group first started heroics was bringing my dk in for a reg spoils kill. after that we just worked on heroics until there was 2 hours left on our last day and we would start up on reg at thok with the dks id. just have the id toon reform the group as lead, reset all instances and walk in first. hearth when you get a few more ppl inside and hop over to your main. the id toon can hold the id indefinitely and nobody has to miss out on trinks, tier, and heirlooms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Chumani
      Aka'magosh my raider friends! Chumani here from Corrupted Destiny guild (Horde) on Skywall/Drak'thul realms. We are currently recruiting for our core team for mythic raiding. We are 7/9 H ToS....  Consistant and Dependable members! (Who can handle cutting up and getting yelled at.... by a certain mage in our guild.... who cuts up too.... and won't admit it..... and puts down fake portals.... every week..... and people still take them.... to their death..... really......week..... after week.... to their death...... seriously)
      As always we are recruiting raiders and non raiders.
      *****GIRLS***** We have a large number of female gamers who do not have to worry about harrasment of any kind...we just will not tolerate this... and our group is like family. Come see for yourself!
      Tired of the ridiculous harassment from the opposite sex? You will be safe with us! Mature gamers who do not condone this behaviour!
      Our raid schedule is Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday 6:30pm to 9:00pm server time(pst)
      We use MUMBLE voice server, it is required and no exceptions!
      We currently have an "Alt" raid for alts and non-progression raiders on Mondays at the same time! MEGA amounts of fun there, alot of us use our mains to carry this raid and help gear these raiders up!
      Other guild events include: Herb Drives, Fishing Expo, Mog off! (Best transmog wins), Old Raids for Transmog gear & Mythic Plus runs. We do random guild events with prizes up to and including a FREE MONTH OF WOW! (Mog-Off is going on NOW!!)
      We have quite a bit of fun when we get together, as we always have over the years! Come join us and get corrupted (Disclaimer: Infections have been found to be the leading cause of corruption in many raiders) We've always been here and will continue to be here! Of course you will be required to sacrifice a goat or an alliance player once a week to the Horde gods..... You will also be required to laugh and have fun as well! We do have fun!
      So.......COME.......GET.......CORRUPTED!
      Chu@12466 - Deni#1743 
      ***Newest video highlighting some of our girls!****
      (We are just huge nerds who see ourselves as badass warriors!... ok!)
      ******We also have one of our members who has published some 'how to' videos for certain in game mounts!!*** Keep eye out for Barcat, one of our casual members and professional mount hoarder and his youtube channel for these vids! Will post one in comment below*******
      http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=247413
    • By Tobhi
      Hello fellow hunters!
      I have more or less played hunter exclusively since Ulduar, and I've always done pretty decent, doing respectable DPS, using my utility to it's fullest and generally been a good raider. In Legion however, I felt as if that changed, and nothing ever "clicked" - I feel like I've done poorly the entire expansion so far, so much that I even quit for a while.
      Well, now my pretty casual guild has started progressing in mythic, and even though we've managed the three first cakewalk bosses, I want to do better at the harder ones, so I'm reaching out to you guys for help. To be honest, I have no idea where to start to better myself. I really suck at handling an/or interpreting logs, but I can tell I don't do really well from the rankings... mostly gray numbers. Also, my live DPS is pretty much 200k lower than my simmed (using Raidbots quicksim feature).
      Below, I will link the logs from our progress run in mythic last night, some wipes, but two kills (Demonic Inquisition and Harjatan). Hopefully you can gleam something I'm doing wrong from them - if not I can probably get some logs from our raid tomorrow. I'll also post a link to my armory, if that helps. Raidbots doesn't seem to function properly at the moment, the connection to armory fails all the time which means I can't post any sims. I will try and edit this post with some sims later on, if possible. :P
      Logs from last night:
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H1tfXPCLrvmw2x4n
       
      My armory:
      https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/silvermoon/tobhi
       
      I don't expect you guys to do wonders, but any help is appreciated!
       
      Tobhi of Silvermoon-EU
       
      1st edit:
       
      Also, forgot to mention that I guess I'm willing to swap to BM if needed, but I really hate pets with a passion since the Deathwing fights, and having my pet swimming between the platforms, preventing me from using Kill Command...
    • By Matster
      Semi-Hardcore Guild Looking for new Blood to fill our team. We are looking to fill Healer and DPS spots (preferably Ranged). Having a Immunity class is a plus. We like to run Mythic+ on non raid nights and do events every once in a while. We are a laid-back group that likes to Joke around, but still progress content. Hoping to clear Heroic soon and move into Mythic. 
      What we Offer:
      -Mythic+ Groups
      -Cross Realm Runs to trial
      -Chill Enviroment with a mind on Progression
      -Character Catch-up for Undergeared players Main Characters
      -Heroic Raiding as our primary Focus, Doing Mythic is a bonus after clearing Heroic (working on a steady 20 atm)
      What we are Looking for:
      Immunity RDPS Classes (Mage, Hunter, Possibly DH or palidan) - High
      Ranged DPS Classes - Medium
      Melee DPS - Low
      AOE Healers - High
      Raid Times:
      Mon-Wed; 8-11 Central time
      Times may possibly change (looking to move for better availability Days)
      Contacts:
      add my battle tag at Braz203#1596
      Or leave a message on this Page
    • By Beautyman
      Oi, mates! Let me just briefly introduce me and this guild. My name is Beautymen and I have been playing ever since WoTLK. During this great expansion I was heavily involved into raiding on Quel'Thalas. Ever since I left these days behind the sensation of raiding and progressing has been tickling my sensitive parts. Therefore, when Legion launched I came back to play with my mate Kraishan and we founded Mythic Busters.
       
      What is Mythic Busters?
      Our guild, Mythic Busters, is a friendly bunch of people from all around the world who are looking to get into raiding. Especially, when you have been gone from the game for some time, you might have lost your raiding mojo and find it hard to be re-introduced.
      This guild offers you the chance to start raiding again in Legion through a fun and relaxed way. No hard requirements, just fair and square play. We have several divisions within the guild to cater to different players. For instance, we run Mythic+ to gear up new players and currently we are building progress and farm runs through the newest raids.
       
      What makes raiding different with you guys?
      Good question, me. Well, if I might be so egocentric as to say that first of all: I believe we have created a great atmosphere within our guild. I, as a raid leader, try to entertain the raid group on Discord by keeping our nights social and fun.

      Sounds great. When do you raid?
      Right now we raid on Wednesdays and Sundays from 7:30PM (invites) till about 11:00PM server time. These raids are currently focused on ToS HC progression. On Fridays we also run a normal mode farm for alts/lowerer geared members.
       
      Awesome. Who are you looking for?
      We accept any and every social player who is either experienced or new to raiding. Just be a chill or dude or dudewoman! And of course, ready slash willing to learn.
       
      You sold me at dudewoman! How do I join?
      Feel free to respond underneath this post or whisper me ingame (Beautymen-QuelThalas or Beautyman#2868).
    • By Athlios
      Guild Information:
      Guild name: Gordian Knot
      Faction: Horde
      Realm: Draenor (EU)
      Realm Type: Normal - PVE
      Current progress: ToS 3/9M, NH 6/10M, ToV 2/3M
      Raid days: Wednesday, Sunday, Monday
      Raid times: 20.00-23.00 CET
      Website: http://gordian-knot.eu/
      (Full application details on website)
      Recruiting for Heroic and Mythic Raiding:
      High:
      Druid: Balance Shaman: Elemental Medium:
      Mage: All specs Monk: Windwalker Priest: Shadow Warlock: All specs Low:
      Priest: Discipline These are our open spots at the moment, however, we are always interested in any player that is highly skilled, knowledgeable with their class and has positive and friendly attitude.
      Also, in order to be able to join our main team straight away, you need to meet the requirements for our current progress, which are around 925 item level equiped and around 60+ traits on your weapon.
      Any social and friendly person who wants to join us for kicks and giggles is welcome. Just poke any of our officers online and you will get an invite for a social spot (no raiding spot).
      About us:
      Gordian Knot is a 20-man semi-hardcore raiding guild that consists of experienced raiders with some of them having raiding experience as far back as Vanilla.
      We are a friendly group who enjoys World of Warcraft and loves raiding. We have fun and joke around but when bosses need to go down then all is serious! We wish for all our members to enjoy the game as much as we do and we expect raiders to maintain a 70% attendance per month.
      We also enjoy a variety of other activities such as running a lot of Mythic+ dungeons doing alt-runs, achievement runs etc.
      There are a few things we hold in high value but above else we value friendliness and politeness towards guildies and other players and skillfulness when it comes to the more serious parts of the game.
      Currently :
      We raid 3 nights a week, Wednesdays, Sundays and Mondays, from 20:00 till 23:00 server time.
      Although we are a 20-man guild, we usually run an extra group in order to get more people to experience the joys of raiding, help new raiders learn the Knot's way to down bosses and gearing up. Usually, these runs happen on Thursdays. Also, every Friday and sometimes Saturdays too, we're on RBGs killing alliance scums!
      Saturdays are generally left for those RBGs or older content runs for fun and drinking!
      Our current guild progress is 3/9 on Tomb of Sargeras mythic, and we're focusing on getting further Mythic progress. Our aim is to get Cutting Edge for this patch!
      If you're interested in joining Gordian Knot, please fill in our application form, located at http://gordian-knot.eu/apply/, alternatively please whisper one of our officers:
      Jenquai - Athlios#2283
      Leleko - Leleko#2235
      Narweena - Sephyra#2517
      or contact me on discord Athlios#0153
      PS. We're always open to group applications or guild merging discussions.
      We are also open and welcome social applications.