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Guest Argandios

In the level 25 talent row you are talking about 'Perseverance' as if that talent is still a thing in Shadowlands, and mark 'Body and Soul' (the talent which substitutes 'Perseverance') which is, probably, even better than angelic feather right now for mobility, as the talent Holy priests should not pick. Take a loook at it.

Away from that.... wtf, have you even used the spec once?, no word of Shadow word: pain or Shadow word: death as damage spells used (often) in M+, no word of the specific changes to Holy Nova for Holy priest to improve its use in M+, nothing about the return of Power word: shield as baseline to improve survivability... no wonder people thinks Holy is still *filtered*. Might be that this mess is only due to the rush to have the guides ready (and that they will last as they are right now for only a month), and it have make you miss a lot of things but... even when I am grateful for the effort you have put on it, I think this one is a very poor job.

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12 hours ago, Guest Argandios said:

In the level 25 talent row you are talking about 'Perseverance' as if that talent is still a thing in Shadowlands, and mark 'Body and Soul' (the talent which substitutes 'Perseverance') which is, probably, even better than angelic feather right now for mobility, as the talent Holy priests should not pick. Take a loook at it.

Away from that.... wtf, have you even used the spec once?, no word of Shadow word: pain or Shadow word: death as damage spells used (often) in M+, no word of the specific changes to Holy Nova for Holy priest to improve its use in M+, nothing about the return of Power word: shield as baseline to improve survivability... no wonder people thinks Holy is still *filtered*. Might be that this mess is only due to the rush to have the guides ready (and that they will last as they are right now for only a month), and it have make you miss a lot of things but... even when I am grateful for the effort you have put on it, I think this one is a very poor job.

Hey Argandios, thanks for taking interest in the guide!

There is an update on the way today or tomorrow with a focus on the DPS spells, in particular the breakpoints for swapping to/from Holy Nova and Divine star depending on the number of available targets, when you should stop casting sw:p and so on. With regards to Holy Nova the changes with the new target cap don't offer much improvement sadly. We also have information ready to go for Shadowlands on similar situations for using each of the covenant abilities as well which will be updated around shadowlands launch.

The guide is not rushed, quite the opposite - we always make sure that all the information provided is validated and correct before it gets included ? 

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Guest Argandios

Glad to read it, and my apologies for have not notice it was still a work in progress.

Regarding the 'Holy Nova' change, I was not talking about the diminishing returns, but about it launching a second voley of damage/healing for 50% of the original damage/healing if the spell hits more than 3 targets, I think this second one is the noticeable one ^^.

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On 10/16/2020 at 7:44 AM, Guest Argandios said:

Glad to read it, and my apologies for have not notice it was still a work in progress.

Regarding the 'Holy Nova' change, I was not talking about the diminishing returns, but about it launching a second voley of damage/healing for 50% of the original damage/healing if the spell hits more than 3 targets, I think this second one is the noticeable one ^^.

That's understandable! 

The guides at the moment are focused on being accurate for pre-patch, there will 100% be some mention of the new Holy Nova effect that we learn while levelling in Shadowlands once the new expansion is out.

Unfortunately we don't have that now so it makes the ability feel a lot more lacklustre than it's supposed to be ?

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Guest Sim0ne

Stat priorities have changed pretty significantly, yet all the BiS gear still seems to be weighted with the old stat priority.

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22 minutes ago, Guest Sim0ne said:

Stat priorities have changed pretty significantly, yet all the BiS gear still seems to be weighted with the old stat priority.

Hey Sim0ne,

Our stat priorities haven't changed enough in pre-patch to significantly alter the BiS suggestions. The biggest change has been the increased value in Intellect which prioritises taking item level over secondary distribution in even more circumstances than before.

Was there a particular suggestion you disagreed with? Keep in mind this is a list of obtainable items from Raid where it's much easier to prioritise obtaining specific pieces. It doesn't include all the possible items from your Mythic+ chest.

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The mastery and crit gems are incorrect on this page: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/holy-priest-pve-healing-gems-enchants-consumables

For mastery this should be https://www.wowhead.com/spell=311864/masterful-jewel-cluster and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=311869/masterful-jewel-doublet

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12 hours ago, delirage said:

Thanks for that @delirage! I'll submit a fix for that now, looks like some of the older gems suggestions snuck back in for a few specs.

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Guest Caeltas

You mention that Smite doesn't cost any mana. It actually does cost 100 mana. Though the cost is low enough it's not noticeable. 

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Guest Anon

Hey, just wanted to say that echo of eonar is waist, wrists,finger instead of hands,wrists,finger

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7 hours ago, Guest Anon said:

Hey, just wanted to say that echo of eonar is waist, wrists,finger instead of hands,wrists,finger

Thanks for picking that up, I have submitted a fix for it!

 

On 12/2/2020 at 4:33 PM, Guest Caeltas said:

You mention that Smite doesn't cost any mana. It actually does cost 100 mana. Though the cost is low enough it's not noticeable. 

I mention this on a couple of the pages, but you are correct there are instances I missed where I still mention free. Thanks for taking the time to post a comment 🙂

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Guest Bouh

Hi guys, It seems Power infusion is a discipline talent so "Twins of the sun priestess" shouldn't be in the best legendaries list for holy priest.

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15 hours ago, Guest Bouh said:

Hi guys, It seems Power infusion is a discipline talent so "Twins of the sun priestess" shouldn't be in the best legendaries list for holy priest.

Hi Bouh!

Power Infusion Power Infusion in Shadowlands is a baseline spell that Holy Priest learns automatically at level 58. This is the same spell that all 3 Priest specialisations have access to at level 58 and above, and Twins of the Sun Priestess works for all 3 specs.

Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback 🙂

 

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Hello, apologies if this is the wrong place for this question but I have to ask it as I am getting confused. In your how to improve as a holy priest you talk about one of the common mistakes being running out of mana too early, which is true. In the spells you list Flash heal as being a mana inefficient spell and yet the recommended 5 man healing rotation is to take the Enlightenment and Trail of light talents and spam flash heal. Is this end game only or does it work for 50-60 5 man healing also?

Spamming Flash heal in levelling 5 mans can take you OOM pretty quickly if everyone is taking damage and the AOE spells are on CD.

Just after some guidance so I can become a better healer. Thanks.

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On 12/11/2020 at 3:37 AM, jonnod said:

Hello, apologies if this is the wrong place for this question but I have to ask it as I am getting confused. In your how to improve as a holy priest you talk about one of the common mistakes being running out of mana too early, which is true. In the spells you list Flash heal as being a mana inefficient spell and yet the recommended 5 man healing rotation is to take the Enlightenment and Trail of light talents and spam flash heal. Is this end game only or does it work for 50-60 5 man healing also?

Spamming Flash heal in levelling 5 mans can take you OOM pretty quickly if everyone is taking damage and the AOE spells are on CD.

Just after some guidance so I can become a better healer. Thanks.

Hey Jonnod,

Flash with the Trail of Light and Surge of Light talents will be the bulk of your healing in Mythic+. That said you should still be sure to cast your Holy Words as often as possible. The same for Divine Star, PoM and CoH which are all very mana efficient group heals. Don't think of any of these 5 abilities as "cooldowns" - they're your rotational spells and you want to be casting them as regularly as they'll do healing. Apotheosis is one cooldown you do want to be using regularly as well, not only does it make your holy words free for its duration but it resets the CD on sanc/serenity allowing you to cast those two very strong heals immediately.

Try to prioritise casting your Flash Heal'ing around to different group members to maximise the healing from your Trail of Light. You should also usually stop healing people at 80-85% HP and let your mastery/trail of light tick them back up the rest of the way.

Try to visit an innkeeper or find a friendly mage to get some water to drink prior to entering your dungeons. Drink regularly. Even drinking after each pull is not uncommon (for a lot of healing specs, not just holy priest). This allows you to be even more aggressive with mana. To help with this you can slowly position yourself forwards of the current pack so you can drink immediately once it's dead, and then you're much closer ready to go for the next pack.

If you have any more questions, let me know!

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Guest Zero

You  have Evangelism listed in this guide but its no longer an ability. can you update your rotation :) 

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8 hours ago, Guest Zero said:

You  have Evangelism listed in this guide but its no longer an ability. can you update your rotation 🙂

Hi Zero!

Did you mean to post this feedback on the Discipline priest guide page?

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On 12/13/2020 at 8:05 PM, Niphyr said:

Hey Jonnod,

Flash with the Trail of Light and Surge of Light talents will be the bulk of your healing in Mythic+. That said you should still be sure to cast your Holy Words as often as possible. The same for Divine Star, PoM and CoH which are all very mana efficient group heals. Don't think of any of these 5 abilities as "cooldowns" - they're your rotational spells and you want to be casting them as regularly as they'll do healing. Apotheosis is one cooldown you do want to be using regularly as well, not only does it make your holy words free for its duration but it resets the CD on sanc/serenity allowing you to cast those two very strong heals immediately.

Try to prioritise casting your Flash Heal'ing around to different group members to maximise the healing from your Trail of Light. You should also usually stop healing people at 80-85% HP and let your mastery/trail of light tick them back up the rest of the way.

Try to visit an innkeeper or find a friendly mage to get some water to drink prior to entering your dungeons. Drink regularly. Even drinking after each pull is not uncommon (for a lot of healing specs, not just holy priest). This allows you to be even more aggressive with mana. To help with this you can slowly position yourself forwards of the current pack so you can drink immediately once it's dead, and then you're much closer ready to go for the next pack.

If you have any more questions, let me know!

Thanks Niph,

My Flash Concentration memory dropped for me and the buff it gives makes spamming Flash Heal a total no-brainer.

Thanks for the advice, would you agree that using Prayer of Healing is a total waste outside of Apotheosis ?

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Guest Moose

Hello! Thank you for this wonderful guide. I've always looked to Icy Veins for guidance and really appreciate what you folks do to put together a succinct and thoughtful guide.

I haven't been able to find a precise answer online, so I wanted to ask here. For the Flash Concentration legendary, it's recommended we craft the neck slot. Wowhead, however, recommends the wrist slot. Is there a reason that IV is recommending neck? I realize that a neck piece means no primary stat--but more secondary... so maybe that's the logic despite intellect being our first priority? Thank you for any clarification you can provide!

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On 12/17/2020 at 9:17 AM, jonnod said:

My Flash Concentration memory dropped for me and the buff it gives makes spamming Flash Heal a total no-brainer.

Hey Jonnod. Make sure you read the legendary carefully when using Flash concentration. It empowers Heal. The Flash Heal casts are just to keep the buff up. I go over that in the rotation section of the guide. 

 

On 12/17/2020 at 9:17 AM, jonnod said:

Thanks for the advice, would you agree that using Prayer of Healing is a total waste outside of Apotheosis ?

I presume we are still talking dungeons, PoH is pretty dependant on the damage going out. With flash concentration, using Heal is nearly always better,  especially as it lets you prioritise people who need it the most.

Situations in dungeons I would use PoH are mostly when everyone is taking equal damage and arent in danger of dying, like post-combat bursting if you can't dispel it with Mass Dispel.

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10 hours ago, Guest Moose said:

Hello! Thank you for this wonderful guide. I've always looked to Icy Veins for guidance and really appreciate what you folks do to put together a succinct and thoughtful guide.

Thanks for the kind words, Moose!

10 hours ago, Guest Moose said:

I haven't been able to find a precise answer online, so I wanted to ask here. For the Flash Concentration legendary, it's recommended we craft the neck slot. Wowhead, however, recommends the wrist slot. Is there a reason that IV is recommending neck? I realize that a neck piece means no primary stat--but more secondary... so maybe that's the logic despite intellect being our first priority? Thank you for any clarification you can provide!

So the main reason you haven't found a precise answer online is that it's a bit situational / personal preference. For most legendaries there are pros and cons to both slots. This is especially true when you look beyond just the loot table on this current tier towards any future raid tiers.

Having more secondary stats is fantastic as they will scale better than intellect as you gain gear,  both throughout this tier and coming tiers. Being able to trade high ilvl necks to your guild mates also opens up who you can trade loot to from your legendary slot from just cloth wearers. you should also consider your access to the higher tier bases.

Depending on your realm, the prices and availability for base types can differ wildly and this may influence your decision a bit as well. To many people and extra 10 intellect or secondary isnt worth spending tens or hundreds of thousands of additonal gold.

Overall the difference for any legendary when comparing slots is very minor, especially factoring in raid/m+ loot. The main thing is you have one, and you upgrade it as often as you can.

Hopefully that helps explain why for legendary slots, you're likely to see some variation in what people are using. If that doesn't help or you have more questions - let me know!

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On 12/18/2020 at 2:42 AM, Niphyr said:

Hey Jonnod. Make sure you read the legendary carefully when using Flash concentration. It empowers Heal. The Flash Heal casts are just to keep the buff up. I go over that in the rotation section of the guide. 

 

I presume we are still talking dungeons, PoH is pretty dependant on the damage going out. With flash concentration, using Heal is nearly always better,  especially as it lets you prioritise people who need it the most.

Situations in dungeons I would use PoH are mostly when everyone is taking equal damage and arent in danger of dying, like post-combat bursting if you can't dispel it with Mass Dispel.

Thanks, yes after reading the legendary I realise how it works now. Thanks for all the advice. You guys rock!!

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Guest Lighti

This is by far the worst guide I have ever seen. The talent choices are terrible and all this guide will help other holy priest do is go oom. The name of the game is how to save your Mana and use it wisely. POH is not how you do that. Nor is Halo or devine star. Not to mention that it is way more Mana effective to run Trailing light over Enlightenment. The amount of healing you as the player can put out with Trail far exceeds the amount of Mana you get back from enlightenment. In other words who ever made this guide hasn't even played holy priest at all. 

In raiding or even in M+ trail of light does so much more for you and here is why. 

If done correctly each flash heals except for the first cast is technically doing 1.35 casts that means each heal you are doing is saving you from having to spend a third of the Mana cost. That means that every three flash heals you would be getting 4 flash heals and since the cast time is 1.2 sec x3 = 3.6 sec and Mana regen is ever 5 sec. This you as the healer haven't even benefited from Enlightenment yet. Enlightenment gives you 300 extra Mana every 5 sec... That's nothing. Having to cast the 4th flash heal takes away more Mana than enlightenment gives. 

Note: I took away the first flash heal in that calculation but even if you add it in we would be at 4.8 sec and still wouldn't have gotten any benefits from enlightenment. 

Since POH cost 3000 Mana we should never use it unless innervated or casting spells are free. Yes it's a good aoe heal but the cost and cast time is to much. Even if speeding up the cast time by 25% is up, all you are doing is burning your Mana pool. 

Let's look at the reality of needing to use POH. In a raid you have a lot of options of aoe healing, not to mention other healers with you so if massive raid dmg is coming then a cools down would be used. Any more healing while the cool down is being used would be spot healing and POH would not fill in for that. So spamming POH would just become over healing and even if there were no cool downs being used you have other healers. Meaning POH has a very high chance of hitting someone who is already being healed. 

Now what about M+ I'm sure it can be used there right? Maybe. If you don't have to move out of something and all the stars align then sure. But casting a flash heal and getting a proc from surge or using your holy word spells would be sooooo much more effective. So over all POH can stay on your action bar for those super rare moments but maybe on key 8 or something out of reach to where you almost forget about it...

Let's talk about Renew! Such a great heal, it only cost 900 Mana and does so much spot healing. Yet we should NEVER cast it. Why? Because it cost 900 freaking Mana and is an instant cast that will burn all your Mana away before you even realize it. Run benediction over halo and star. It saves so much of your Mana and with a 25% chance to proc your renews will go out don't you worry.  

To to be clear. I have seen logs of Holy priest casting 60+ renews in a single raid boss encounter. 60 renews = 50,000 Mana. Enough said? I hope so.

I personally would only recommend casting renew while running between trash pulls in M+ so you can keep moving and not slow down your tank.

Halo and devine star are a waist of time and both skills take a % of Mana from you meaning if you are running the enchantment that increases you Mana pool by 6% you just made Halo and Devine star more expensive. As a holy priest you already have a lot of skills to keep your group up. Refine those skills don't just keep adding more skills thinking you need that extra keybind to be a good healer. Also if you are worried about dps as a holy priest Smite more keep up swp and holy fire on CD but honestly just bring better dps with you. You're a healer and if your group actually complains about your lack of dps this early in shadow lands then something is seriously wrong.

Better yet stop healing and just spam smite and see if they still complain while running back haha.

Over all I hope this post helps people who actually are looking for more of a guide than this cheap scape guide who just tossed BS together. Holy priest are powerful healers who just require to be played correctly. They can out preform every healer out there it's just about how you play and how well you use that mana pool. Best of luck friends!

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