Berlinia

Level 30 Talent Row Analysis

Sign in to follow this  

4 posts in this topic

Hello fellow mages

 

I have been seeing things around in mmo champion regarding the level 30 talents and that many people fall for example into the trap of using Flameglow on Heroic Thok for example. I thought I should figure out the math behind the talents and when each one becomes more powerful. I am aware that the main reason that Temporal Shield is preferred over Ice Barrier is that it is not on the GCD making it a straightup dps increase. My attitude in this post is NOT what provides the best dps increase, but what are the pro's and con's of each talent, and in which situations each surpasses the others.

 

Keep in mind that this is a PvE post.

 

Temporal Shield

Pro's

-Is not on the Global Cooldown giving us a defensive cooldown without diminishing our dps

-Increases percentually with the damage taken and your stats do not affect it's value

-Due to the healing component it practically negates all damage taken within the 4 seconds that it is active (however it is not an immunity).

 

Con's

-Needs to be timed correctly

-Is only powerful when you take a very strong hit at a specific timeframe. Frequent small hits make it not worth it.

-Smartheals can often overwrite the healing part of the spell

Edit: Has a mana cost which is a DPS loss for Arcane Mages (Credits to Volta)

 

Ice Barrier

Pro's

-Increases your effective healthpool

-Can be used on cooldown without having to worry it will go to waste

-Scales with spellpower making it more effective during a trinket proc

 

Con's

-It's on the GCD

-Scales with spellpower making it more effective during a trinket proc. The GCD with the Spellpower could be used on a more hard hitting ability instead

 

Flameglow

 

Pro's

-Can be absurdly strong if you take very frequent hits of any value.

 

Con's

-Currently the healing model doesn't support the niche Flameglow shines in

 

 

Okay so let's get to the calculations shall we?

Let's assume a full BiS 581 item level for Arcane mage which provides an average 50.000 Spellpower. 

 

Situation a)

 

Flameglow: 

The maximum absorb value of Flameglow is SP(spc) * 0.15 = 50.000 * 0.15 = 7500.

For every hit you take the maximum value Flameglow can absorb is 7500 up to a 30% of the attack. This means that the maximum absorb value of Flameglow takes place up to a value of 7.500 * 100/30 = 25.000. Taking damage under this value on every hit reduces the absolute value of Flameglow's absorption effect, but practically grants you 30% damage reduction.

When one of your trinkets procs, the Absorb Value becomes 66.000 * 0.15 = 9.900 = 9,9k (making the necessary damage taken 9.9k * 3.3 = 33k)

When two trinkets proc then the absorb value becomes 82.000 * 0.15 = 12.300 = 12k (making the necessary damage taken 12k * 3.3 = 40k)

 

Ice Barrier:

 Ice Barrier can offer several different values due to all the intellect procs we have, but I am just going to analyze the base Ice Barrier value, when KTT procs and when Expanded Mind (PBoI trinket) procs. 

-With the standard 50.000 Spellpower Ice Barrier grants an absorb shield of 4580 + 50.000 * 3.3 = 169.580 = 170.000 = 170k. So on a 25 second cooldown you have an effective healthpool of Health + 170.000

-With the additional KTT or Expanded Mind procs, your Spellpower increases to 50.000 + 16.000 = 66.000

The value of Ice Barrier then becomes 4580 + 66.000*3.3 = 222.380 = 222.000 = 222k. The total effective healthpool of your character increased by an additional 52k during a trinket proc

-When both trinkets are proced at the same time your total Spellpower becomes 50.000 + 16.000 + 16.000 = 82.000

The value of your Ice Barrier then becomes 4580 + 3.3 * 82.000 = 275.180 = 275k. This makes your healthpool again an additional 53k bigger. 

 

What we can figure out from these results is that Flameglow and Ice Barrier scale linearly with your Spellpower. This means that the more powerfull your character becomes, the more powerful these talents become.

 

Temporal Shield:

Temporal Shield has a very simple function attached to it. The Absorption value during the 4 seconds Temporal Shield is active is 15% of the damage taken. Any damage that passes through get;s turned into a Healing over Time effect that lasts for 6 seconds.

What this means is that spellpower does not affect the value of Temporal Shield but the effect itself becomes more powerful the higher the damage taken is during these 4 seconds. With the current healing model where sudden bursts of damage are the mainstream, Temporal Shield has a very high value.

 

So let's start the comparisons.

Flameglow vs Ice Barrier

 

Ice Barrier absorbs roughly 170k when under no Intellect procs whilst being in a 25 second cooldown. Flameglow outscales Ice Barrier when within those 25 seconds the absorb effect ticks more than these 170k. Due to the maximum damage reduction value being 7.500 (7.5k) you need to take 170k / 7.5k = 22.6 hits of 25.000 damage. This is the only time is worth it.

Equal calculatons apply when an intellect proc takes place and the results are always 22.6 hits of maximum damage.

 

Now Temporal Shield. 

We have already concluded that with no Intellect procs you need to take 22.6 hits of 25.000 damage within 25 seconds, which results in 0.9 hits of 25k per second for Flameglow to be worth it. This equals to 1 hit 25k * 0.9 = 22.5k damage taken per second. This get's translated to getting hit for 25k every 1.106 seconds. Anything more than that favours Ice Barrier over Flameglow. When does Temporal Shield get into the picture? 

We have already given TS the attribute that it practically negates a hit due to the healing effect attached to it. So the calculation is simple. When does Ice Barrier negate a hit? When during the first 4 seconds of Ice Barrier you take damage over 170k (or 222k/270k depending on intellect procs). So if you take any higher amount of damage during the first 4 seconds of Temporal Shield (when it is active) the defensive portion of TS is stronger. 

 

Summary

If more than 0.9 hits/second of a value under or even over 25k favors Flameglow. (this is not an average. You need to take exactly 0.9 hits/second)

For Clarity this translates to 25k every 1.106 seconds

If any damage over 170k at full BiS favors Temporal Shield

All damage in between favors Ice barrier.

 

I realize this might not be complete. If anyone can help out or has constructive criticism go ahead. Cheers

 

Edit: Just to adress concerns, I am most certainly NOT advising usage of Ice Barrier over Temporal Shield on SoO or During int procs. I am just showing when each has a greater defensive value. Calm your tities and continue to snapshot your ass of during Int procs is my advice for SoO

Edited by Berlinia
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh my god I love this.  These deep analyses of our abilities just makes me giddy.  I am upset that Akraen is stepping down, but at least there will still be someone posting math-based calculations that I act like I understand, when in reality I'm clueless.

 

<3 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that I act like I understand, when in reality I'm clueless.

 

<3 

Do you actually believe us doing the calculations KNOW what we are doing? We are just as clueless as you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Violentravi
      Hello,
      The Sworn is recruiting DPS. We are a Horde guild on Arthas and our current progression is 5/11 Mythic Antorus. We only raid two nights a week, Tuesday and Wednesday from 9:15 PM until 12:15 AM Eastern. Currently, our main goal is to push Mythic progression & finish out the raid before next patch, please keep this in mind if you wish to join us, because we will not be doing Heroic or anything like that.
      From you, we would expect 100% attendance during your trial period; after that if you cannot make a raid or will be late it is mandatory to keep the raid leader updated. In order to continue making good progression while raiding only two nights a week, we expect that you know your class inside-out and will research any bosses you are unfamiliar with prior to raids.
      As far as classes are concerned, at this time, we do not have ANY rogues, DPS warriors, havoc DH, or wind walkers.
      If you are interested, add me to battle tag and we will talk (violentravi#1826), I will accept mostly anyone who wants to be a bench or casual, but for raiding purposes, you must be able to provide logs.
      Thank you for your consideration
      Xoxo
      Violentnacho
    • By Fettucini
      Hello,
      I seem to do very little damage on my opener and then following it up later.
      Here are my logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9gqQaXwfmFGzH6Dy#fight=25&type=summary
      My armory https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/ravencrest/fettucini 
      I'm curious whether this is just bad playing or a lack of gear.
    • By xkaoticx
      Like the title says, I am just seeking some extra help on how I can improve my performance. I dont feel like my dps is lacking but think it could be better.
      Armory: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/shadowmoon/frostybones
      (I know i need a couple enchants)
      Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TXBQkCpyjF9acrGV#fight=17
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TXBQkCpyjF9acrGV#fight=4
      Side note: When I have Icy Veins + BL up I catch myself overriding FOF or BF procs because its not registering my keypresses fast enough. Anyone else run into this issue?
    • By Casdon
      [US] Stormreaver — Skunkworks
      Tuesdays & Thursdays: 7:00 P.M. to 11:00 P.M. (pst) || 9-1 (cst) || 10-2 (est)
       
      Progression
      8/11M Antorus
      9/9M ToS
      10/10M Nighthold
      3/3M Trial of Valor
      7/7M Emerald Nightmare
       
      Website
      skunkworksguild.com
       
      About Us
      Skunkworks is a guild for players who can not or do not want to commit to the time-intensive raid schedules of traditional "hardcore" guilds.
      However, we still maintain a high caliber player environment and make an efficient use of our raiding time.
      We raid Tuesdays and Thursdays from 7:00 - 11:00 PST, just 8 hours a week and never more.
       
      We are very protective of our guild environment and selective in recruitment. We are looking for solid players mechanically as well as intellectually.
      We all get paid to deal with idiots, why should we pay to spend our leisure time with them as well?
       
      Skunkworks has been around for multiple expansions and has historically always been at the top of the 2-night raiding guild scene.
       
      Past Raiding Achievements
       
      #US 199 Mythic KJ #US 186 Mythic Archimonde #131 US Heroic Garrosh #68 US Heroic Ra-den #77 US Heroic Lei Shen #86 US Heroic Sha of Fear #106 US Heroic Madness of Deathwing #99 US Heroic Ragnaros #147 US Sinestra #91 US Heroic The Twilight Destroyer (Halion) #71 US Heroic Fall of the Lich King #247 US Tribute to Insanity #160 US Alone in the Darkness Current Guild Needs
      Amazing Range DPS ---Exceptional Candidates always considered regardless of recruiting needs.
       
      How to Apply
      Apply with Google Forms
      https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeL-LW1-7rRK28Z3Nswg4xD3-jjQWrIsCh77rYOdxKwY0oPPQ/viewform.
      All applications are kept private.
      Please include at least the following.
          Prominent links to relevant armory pages ]A guild history with reasons for departure
          The reason(s) you have chosen to apply to this guild
          Warcraft Logs
          UI screenshots or fraps/Stream footage
       
      Contact Information
      Shadaka (GM)
      Real ID:Shadak#1881
       
      Aerivore (Recruitment Officers)
      Real ID:  Aerivore#1581
       
      Sovm
      Real ID: Sov#1192